True. If there isn't some greater purpose to our creation and life, then why do we have a conscience? Maybe it is that we feel we should act in a way similar to a possible creator...God? and when we screw up we feel bad...It is the same type of feeling as when we mess something up and our parents get disappointed.
Evolution vs. Intelligent Design redux
- Thread starter squeakywaffle
- Start date
Also, I think this is what separates human beings from animals. We have the cognative ability to think rationally and morally.
And it cannot just be society that has morphed our thought into having morals. If so, then why would people who live in the bush who have never been exposed to soceity as we see it, still have the same morals?
This doesn't deviate too much from the continuouing topic. It branches to the idea that humans are different...you don't see any animals sending off spaceships or creating metals and what not. We are different and I do not think it is evolution that allows us to have this difference. A recent professor in Britian is working on a project in Australia. They found a burial ground that had skulls in very similar shape to early homo-erectus, and they dated about 2 million years old. This professor contested that these were probably not "humans" as we know it. Humans as we know them have the ability to think very critically...these ancient peoples did not...
And it cannot just be society that has morphed our thought into having morals. If so, then why would people who live in the bush who have never been exposed to soceity as we see it, still have the same morals?
This doesn't deviate too much from the continuouing topic. It branches to the idea that humans are different...you don't see any animals sending off spaceships or creating metals and what not. We are different and I do not think it is evolution that allows us to have this difference. A recent professor in Britian is working on a project in Australia. They found a burial ground that had skulls in very similar shape to early homo-erectus, and they dated about 2 million years old. This professor contested that these were probably not "humans" as we know it. Humans as we know them have the ability to think very critically...these ancient peoples did not...
almostaskier
Active member
ima not gonna take a whack at it, i posted why.
~Cork_1080~
Active member
What if the matrix was real and we were living in a virtual world, all of us oblivious to reality??
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
So you are saying something comes from nothing?
For the water and life to work with lighting, you need water.
Every human has a sense of right and wrong. Where did that come from?
And its actually fact that many scientist have begun to switch to Intelligent Design.
Modern scientist have actually dun the math and their studies show that if all of this happened by chance, the chance everything would have worked is 1 in 3.6 x 10 to the 31st
thats a big number, but agreed on by Evolutionaries and ID's alike.
For the water and life to work with lighting, you need water.
Every human has a sense of right and wrong. Where did that come from?
And its actually fact that many scientist have begun to switch to Intelligent Design.
Modern scientist have actually dun the math and their studies show that if all of this happened by chance, the chance everything would have worked is 1 in 3.6 x 10 to the 31st
thats a big number, but agreed on by Evolutionaries and ID's alike.
Those facts and numbers... do you have anything as in a source for that? I'd just be interested, thats all.
And as for the question of where water came from, that was actually a huge scientific mystery untill a few years ago. Believe it or not, space is full of minerals, elements and yes, even water. There are large interstellar 'leftovers' from our solar systems creation that orbit way out beyond Pluto. These are known as the Kuiper Belt and the further out Oort Cloud. These galactic icebergs frequently drift into our solar system. Some of these are sucked into a planets gravitational feild. The early earth was showered by these extrasolar icebergs, as well as comets and other objects containing water. You have to remember, the solar system is very empty from what it was around the early earth. Impacts happened almost daily. Over time, the water coalesced into oceans, which helped form the atmosphere. We still do occasionally get hit by ice from space, but our atmosphere creates so much friction on these chunks that they usually disintergrate before landfall.
Sources:
http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/astr_250/Lectures/Lecture_09.htm
http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/water.html
The last one also has some cool theories about 'interstellar interlopers' and a additional theory about the earth creation, about an early earth colliding with a brown dwarf moving through our system, leading to earths interesting composition.
And as for the question of where water came from, that was actually a huge scientific mystery untill a few years ago. Believe it or not, space is full of minerals, elements and yes, even water. There are large interstellar 'leftovers' from our solar systems creation that orbit way out beyond Pluto. These are known as the Kuiper Belt and the further out Oort Cloud. These galactic icebergs frequently drift into our solar system. Some of these are sucked into a planets gravitational feild. The early earth was showered by these extrasolar icebergs, as well as comets and other objects containing water. You have to remember, the solar system is very empty from what it was around the early earth. Impacts happened almost daily. Over time, the water coalesced into oceans, which helped form the atmosphere. We still do occasionally get hit by ice from space, but our atmosphere creates so much friction on these chunks that they usually disintergrate before landfall.
Sources:
http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/astr_250/Lectures/Lecture_09.htm
http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/water.html
The last one also has some cool theories about 'interstellar interlopers' and a additional theory about the earth creation, about an early earth colliding with a brown dwarf moving through our system, leading to earths interesting composition.
spin
Active member
your half right bud. Look at the human body. I have no reason to have chest hair, but i still have it, because at one point it was beneficial. THe same goes for your little toes. See how they are smaller, and probably rolled "under" your feet? genetic traits like that were at one point beneficial. Because humans now have heat, clothing, and no need to pick shit up with and swing from our toes, those traits are being eliminated. It takes metabolic energy to make and maintain chest hair and (little) toes, and as those traits are not necessary, people with less of them are at an evolutionary advantage. The problem with us is that we are superficial maters, so that less chicks are going to hook up with a balding 20 year old with 4 toes than an average person, even though the first guy is more genetically "fit."
Intelligent Design is getting confused with Evolution as of late. I want to make sure that these are kept seperate, as they are seperate theories.
Evolution: The theory of speciation, where natural selection and time create seperate genuses of animals to fit ecological niches.
Intelligent Design: The belief that the world is to complex and structured for natural science to understand and describe as naturally occuring.
Evolution: The theory of speciation, where natural selection and time create seperate genuses of animals to fit ecological niches.
Intelligent Design: The belief that the world is to complex and structured for natural science to understand and describe as naturally occuring.
SteezePatrol
Active member
everyone read almostaskiers profile if that rant is still there
SO INFORMING
I never knew that the idea of evolution was a joke, thanks almostaskier!
but serisouly that kid is chill and this argument wont ever end because there's always cool partly retarded people who were raised/brainwashed to think that a magic fairy shat teh world out of it's asshole and sits in the clouds watching only earth aside from the other 44 trillion planets in the universe
a mole, that's 6.03 to the...TWENTY THIRD
oh god that song is good
SO INFORMING
I never knew that the idea of evolution was a joke, thanks almostaskier!
but serisouly that kid is chill and this argument wont ever end because there's always cool partly retarded people who were raised/brainwashed to think that a magic fairy shat teh world out of it's asshole and sits in the clouds watching only earth aside from the other 44 trillion planets in the universe
a mole, that's 6.03 to the...TWENTY THIRD
oh god that song is good
almostaskier
Active member
the idea of macro evolution, not speciation.
squeakywaffle
Active member
One by one:
1) No. Life is made of the same basic building blocks (ie atoms) as the rest of the matter in the universe. This stuff was around before we were.
2) Huh? I don't really take that experiment seriously anyway, but there was water on the early earth, just as there is now.
3) A combination of the external values we are conditioned to believe in as children, maybe? Or a recognition that because we enjoy living our lives, we should let other human beings live theirs?
I think society as a whole ends up following one set of morals and values as a result of a sort of evolutionary selection process- your everyday set of values is very beneficial to maintaining a successful civilization. Ultimately, though, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" sums up how I can be a moral person and a materialist (not materialistic, douchebags) at the same time.
4) Yes, these "scientists" have also turned in their lab coats and picked up their bibles. Intelligent design doesn't lead us anywhere new, which makes it conveniently hard to disprove, and it's equivalent to giving up on the question. That's not what scientists do.
5) If we hadn't "happened," would we be here to ask the question? As one example- Brane theory (extremely theoretical physics, not proven yet by any means) suggests that our own universe itself "floats" in a higher-dimensional sea of parallel universes of every conceivable specification. We could just be the lucky one- it's not like a lottery, where you know you lost. The only situation that permits us to ask the question "why are we here?" is one in which we are already here.
In addition to that, your number is bullshit because we don't have the remotest idea how life actually began. All we can do is guess, so we can't compute any probability.
1) No. Life is made of the same basic building blocks (ie atoms) as the rest of the matter in the universe. This stuff was around before we were.
2) Huh? I don't really take that experiment seriously anyway, but there was water on the early earth, just as there is now.
3) A combination of the external values we are conditioned to believe in as children, maybe? Or a recognition that because we enjoy living our lives, we should let other human beings live theirs?
I think society as a whole ends up following one set of morals and values as a result of a sort of evolutionary selection process- your everyday set of values is very beneficial to maintaining a successful civilization. Ultimately, though, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" sums up how I can be a moral person and a materialist (not materialistic, douchebags) at the same time.
4) Yes, these "scientists" have also turned in their lab coats and picked up their bibles. Intelligent design doesn't lead us anywhere new, which makes it conveniently hard to disprove, and it's equivalent to giving up on the question. That's not what scientists do.
5) If we hadn't "happened," would we be here to ask the question? As one example- Brane theory (extremely theoretical physics, not proven yet by any means) suggests that our own universe itself "floats" in a higher-dimensional sea of parallel universes of every conceivable specification. We could just be the lucky one- it's not like a lottery, where you know you lost. The only situation that permits us to ask the question "why are we here?" is one in which we are already here.
In addition to that, your number is bullshit because we don't have the remotest idea how life actually began. All we can do is guess, so we can't compute any probability.
squeakywaffle
Active member
Micro-evolution and Macro-evolution are the same thing.
Think about the finches Darwin saw on the Galapagos islands. If Darwin's theories aren't capable of creating different types of animal in close proximity, then why do all those species living around each other have differently shaped beaks suited to different tasks?
If biological processes can't explain major changes in the shape of an animal, then how have we managed to create so many breeds of dog, of all shapes and sizes?
If evolution can't explain changes in internal physiology, then why have humans started to grow incomplete sets of wisdom teeth, or not grow them at all?
And all this is just in the past couple of thousand years. That's a millisecond on the timeline of life on earth.
Your idea of the "über species" is short sighted. Animals that destroy other species are carnivores by nature. If there are no animals to eat, they die. Animals that are not carnivores have no incentive to destroy other species. Also, the incredible diversity of terrain on the earth boxes species in and fosters the development of many different ecosystems.
You'll notice that most ecosystems have a dominant predator. This is as far as your "über species" gets.
I like your answer to that last "why," though. I think that can also be applied to the question of why we should live if there is no God or cosmic purpose- for the simple joy of living!
Think about the finches Darwin saw on the Galapagos islands. If Darwin's theories aren't capable of creating different types of animal in close proximity, then why do all those species living around each other have differently shaped beaks suited to different tasks?
If biological processes can't explain major changes in the shape of an animal, then how have we managed to create so many breeds of dog, of all shapes and sizes?
If evolution can't explain changes in internal physiology, then why have humans started to grow incomplete sets of wisdom teeth, or not grow them at all?
And all this is just in the past couple of thousand years. That's a millisecond on the timeline of life on earth.
Your idea of the "über species" is short sighted. Animals that destroy other species are carnivores by nature. If there are no animals to eat, they die. Animals that are not carnivores have no incentive to destroy other species. Also, the incredible diversity of terrain on the earth boxes species in and fosters the development of many different ecosystems.
You'll notice that most ecosystems have a dominant predator. This is as far as your "über species" gets.
I like your answer to that last "why," though. I think that can also be applied to the question of why we should live if there is no God or cosmic purpose- for the simple joy of living!
squeakywaffle
Active member
Oh man... this thread is hard to keep up with. This is my last one for tonight.
The eyeball isn't really irreducibly complex. There are plenty of examples in nature of tissues that sense light levels but don't "see" in quite the same way. Each rod and cone at the back of your eye could be used individually. The eye is a complex machine, but it's had a while to refine itself to, say, the human eye.
A light sensing cell by itself has plenty of uses- a bee, for example, generally wants to move from a dark place to a bright place to forage for food. Over time, this develops into a complex eye capable of recognizing objects.
Molecular machines like the flagellar motor and whatever other crazy proteins you can think of are indeed improbable. However, there have been trillions of generations of cells, and all these things were bound to happen sooner or later.
The eyeball isn't really irreducibly complex. There are plenty of examples in nature of tissues that sense light levels but don't "see" in quite the same way. Each rod and cone at the back of your eye could be used individually. The eye is a complex machine, but it's had a while to refine itself to, say, the human eye.
A light sensing cell by itself has plenty of uses- a bee, for example, generally wants to move from a dark place to a bright place to forage for food. Over time, this develops into a complex eye capable of recognizing objects.
Molecular machines like the flagellar motor and whatever other crazy proteins you can think of are indeed improbable. However, there have been trillions of generations of cells, and all these things were bound to happen sooner or later.
almostaskier
Active member
"Think about the finches Darwin saw on the Galapagos islands. If Darwin's theories aren't capable of creating different types of animal in close proximity, then why do all those species living around each other have differently shaped beaks suited to different tasks?"
my point is this: those three finches were still BIRDS. not another animal from a different phyla that obviously were related. that is micro evolution. macro is in NO WAY the same thing.
my point is this: those three finches were still BIRDS. not another animal from a different phyla that obviously were related. that is micro evolution. macro is in NO WAY the same thing.
Jessbuff
Active member
You aren't looking deep enough into these. No one asked what elements life was made of. You were asked where the elements came from? We know life is made of atoms, but where did the atoms come from? They couldn't have just been made from nothing.
And about morals, it's not when do humans get morals, it's why do humans have morals? what created the morals we have? The answer, according to evolutionary theorists would likely be that having morals evolved since creatures with morals had a better chance of survivng.
This isn't realated to your post but someone said that only modern humans have morals, and I don't necessarily agree with this. I think all creatures have morals. This is why they don't kill eachother with out a purpose. Morals, even in humans, are throw out once survival is at stake. Humans will kill eachother off in a war scenario but the same people after the war will sit down for drinks together. Just like a lion will laze around a group of gazelles one day and only once it gets hungry will it take off to kill. (this is kinda my response to almostaskiers question of why we don't just kill everything that is inferior to us.)
And about morals, it's not when do humans get morals, it's why do humans have morals? what created the morals we have? The answer, according to evolutionary theorists would likely be that having morals evolved since creatures with morals had a better chance of survivng.
This isn't realated to your post but someone said that only modern humans have morals, and I don't necessarily agree with this. I think all creatures have morals. This is why they don't kill eachother with out a purpose. Morals, even in humans, are throw out once survival is at stake. Humans will kill eachother off in a war scenario but the same people after the war will sit down for drinks together. Just like a lion will laze around a group of gazelles one day and only once it gets hungry will it take off to kill. (this is kinda my response to almostaskiers question of why we don't just kill everything that is inferior to us.)
Jessbuff
Active member
I agree with most of what you said in this post except this. I already stated this earlier but I think humans are the uber species. We destroy other species. Sure there are many different ecosystems, but there are humans in EVERY single one of them. Except the ocean. but we pollute the shit outof that and fish the marine life out of there anyways.
Anyways, so bottom line is that WE are the dominant predator of every ecosystem. Lions ain't got shit on nukes!
Anyways, so bottom line is that WE are the dominant predator of every ecosystem. Lions ain't got shit on nukes!
SteezePatrol
Active member
I took a piss ontop of the glacier at whistler, and I had a dream last night that it slowly turned into a giant piss monster
now if that isn't evolution, i don';t know what is
now if that isn't evolution, i don';t know what is
ID = I am too stupid to understand something too complex
Life is too complex just to happen - How can you argue with someone who throws out ALL modern science and understanding?
There must be some intelligent designer - Who God? If so whose god, and if it is not your god then there cannot be a god, can there?
Personally, as someone who has a masters in human biology, I have to say that ID is the dumbest new thing from creationists since the scopes trial....my god man, whats next, the world is really still flat or we are the center of tghe universe or that sperm comes from the mans brain as a fully formed human that incubates in the mothers womb??
my god...ID and IDrs are the dumbest yet
Life is too complex just to happen - How can you argue with someone who throws out ALL modern science and understanding?
There must be some intelligent designer - Who God? If so whose god, and if it is not your god then there cannot be a god, can there?
Personally, as someone who has a masters in human biology, I have to say that ID is the dumbest new thing from creationists since the scopes trial....my god man, whats next, the world is really still flat or we are the center of tghe universe or that sperm comes from the mans brain as a fully formed human that incubates in the mothers womb??
my god...ID and IDrs are the dumbest yet
Im staying out of the question about human morals, but as far as where the elements came from:
If you subscribe to the big bang theory, then an instant after the universe was created, it was literally a sea of protons, neutrons, electrons and anti-particles. These particles moved at incredibly high speeds, so high that they actually fused together upon impac, much like what we do in a very small scale with out particle accelerators nowadays. These lumps of neutrons slowly decayed into protons, attracted electrons (negitive charged particles to counter the protons positive charge) and became the heavier elements that we see in abundandce on Earth. This actually happens on a very small scale when a star explodes in a supernove (the heat mimics the early universe here and some heavy elements are created) If you look at the precent of elements in out know universe, the numbers support this theory.
Light elements are small and take only 1 or 2 collisions of neutrons to create, so we see these in vast abundance. they make up stars, gas clouds and much of you in fact. Heavier elements are rare, mostly found in secondary star systems, where the heavy elements encapsled in stars has been thrown off by a supernova and reammassed into planets.
In short, thats where most of the elements came from. But I agree, as for where the singularity came from that released all these particles, thats anyones guess. We just dont have any scientific evidence to say anything about that. Neither does ID.
If you subscribe to the big bang theory, then an instant after the universe was created, it was literally a sea of protons, neutrons, electrons and anti-particles. These particles moved at incredibly high speeds, so high that they actually fused together upon impac, much like what we do in a very small scale with out particle accelerators nowadays. These lumps of neutrons slowly decayed into protons, attracted electrons (negitive charged particles to counter the protons positive charge) and became the heavier elements that we see in abundandce on Earth. This actually happens on a very small scale when a star explodes in a supernove (the heat mimics the early universe here and some heavy elements are created) If you look at the precent of elements in out know universe, the numbers support this theory.
Light elements are small and take only 1 or 2 collisions of neutrons to create, so we see these in vast abundance. they make up stars, gas clouds and much of you in fact. Heavier elements are rare, mostly found in secondary star systems, where the heavy elements encapsled in stars has been thrown off by a supernova and reammassed into planets.
In short, thats where most of the elements came from. But I agree, as for where the singularity came from that released all these particles, thats anyones guess. We just dont have any scientific evidence to say anything about that. Neither does ID.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
1) This isn't the answer, where did the atoms come from?
2)How did water get in th universe?
3)Coyotes aren't extinct, and they will eat each other if another on is hurt. Steal food from each other, kill each others babies, same with Prairie dogs, just they are still around. My life would be much easier to shot people and take stuff.
4) Why is the a society?
5)So how is my number bullshit? I'll post a book when I find it.
2)How did water get in th universe?
3)Coyotes aren't extinct, and they will eat each other if another on is hurt. Steal food from each other, kill each others babies, same with Prairie dogs, just they are still around. My life would be much easier to shot people and take stuff.
4) Why is the a society?
5)So how is my number bullshit? I'll post a book when I find it.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
Where are you getting yours?
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
I have like 2 diffferent books, I'll try to find them, I jsut moved.
As for your water answer, space is full of minerals, where did they come from. Yeah it was there then POW you have everything there is now........ and ID is retarded? Yeah I thought this nothing here blew up and made everything. HMM that sounds intelligent there.
As for your water answer, space is full of minerals, where did they come from. Yeah it was there then POW you have everything there is now........ and ID is retarded? Yeah I thought this nothing here blew up and made everything. HMM that sounds intelligent there.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
Everything you said in that last paragraph has been clearly proven and can be proven again is need be. I don't care if you have a Masters, if you can't prove that the facts show evolution is how things came to be thats the same as saying you worked at Micky D's for a month. It means nothing. Life is to complex to just happen? So its makes more sense that nothing blew up and slowly turned to thinking, feeling people. That makes equal if less sense.
Sorry i keep posting I don't know how to quote more then one reply in a post. And there are many christians who are masters in your field, and are probably smarter then most of us.
Sorry i keep posting I don't know how to quote more then one reply in a post. And there are many christians who are masters in your field, and are probably smarter then most of us.
squeakywaffle
Active member
"You aren't looking deep enough into these. No one asked what elements life was made of. You were asked where the elements came from? We know life is made of atoms, but where did the atoms come from? They couldn't have just been made from nothing".
Nobody has the answer to that question yet. Physicists are working on many theories in an attempt to explain this apparent paradox. ID "theorists," on the other hand, are giving up and saying that God did it, which is not a scientific theory and cannot be proven or disproven. Guess which one I respect more?
"1) This isn't the answer, where did the atoms come from?
2)How did water get in th universe?
3)Coyotes aren't extinct, and they will eat each other if another on is hurt. Steal food from each other, kill each others babies, same with Prairie dogs, just they are still around. My life would be much easier to shot people and take stuff.
4) Why is the a society?
5)So how is my number bullshit? I'll post a book when I find it."
1) See my previous answer.
2) Water is made of atoms- see my previous answer.
3) People do that. People kill each other, eat each other, steal babies, rape, torture, etc. etc. There is no universal human moral code, but most people follow the same set of morals because it's in their best interest to do so.
4) Huh?
5) Your number is bullshit because we don't know how life began. We CAN calculate a probability of our universe being able to support life as we know it today, but that's not the same as the probability that life will actually happen.
Nobody has the answer to that question yet. Physicists are working on many theories in an attempt to explain this apparent paradox. ID "theorists," on the other hand, are giving up and saying that God did it, which is not a scientific theory and cannot be proven or disproven. Guess which one I respect more?
"1) This isn't the answer, where did the atoms come from?
2)How did water get in th universe?
3)Coyotes aren't extinct, and they will eat each other if another on is hurt. Steal food from each other, kill each others babies, same with Prairie dogs, just they are still around. My life would be much easier to shot people and take stuff.
4) Why is the a society?
5)So how is my number bullshit? I'll post a book when I find it."
1) See my previous answer.
2) Water is made of atoms- see my previous answer.
3) People do that. People kill each other, eat each other, steal babies, rape, torture, etc. etc. There is no universal human moral code, but most people follow the same set of morals because it's in their best interest to do so.
4) Huh?
5) Your number is bullshit because we don't know how life began. We CAN calculate a probability of our universe being able to support life as we know it today, but that's not the same as the probability that life will actually happen.
Just study natural inorganic stuff, such as rocks, glaciers, or rivers. You can actually find some answers with some research...instead of everyone speculating over how different forms of evolution works or how things are created, because nobody knows and nobody will ever know because we cannot see any of it happen on our lifetime.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
dude saying its from stuff that was here before us explains nothing. Yes the probabilty number is what you said, that the universe could suport life. Which is jsut nit picking around the point, nice catch tho. 60 foot man on the moon no. And yes there will be time when we find out. You'll find out your answer is wrong, but by then it will be to late for you.. Bummer but thats how it works.
SteezePatrol
Active member
am I the only one that noticed no one wins these debates...I stopped trying a long long time ago
but we all knwo that I'm right and your wrong
but we all knwo that I'm right and your wrong
squeakywaffle
Active member
Saying it came with the universe doesn't explain anything. I agree with you on that point. That's the best we can do right now, though, and while ID gives up at that point, science is still trying to discover the truth and give us a solid answer.
Science doesn't claim to be finished, and yet it explains infinitely more natural phenomena that ID, which claims to be the final theory of everything and yet explains nothing.
By the way, the official stance of most ID theorists is that it is not in any way related to a religion. By claiming that I'm going to hell (which is a little offensive by the way), you just blew your cover. Religion is not science. If you want to develop a scientific theory, religion can't have any role in that process.
I'd retort by saying that you're going to hell, but I don't personally believe that either a) trying to find out why we are here or b) defining one's life around empty lies can buy anyone a nice seat in hell. As you might have guessed, I don't actually believe in hell at all.
Science doesn't claim to be finished, and yet it explains infinitely more natural phenomena that ID, which claims to be the final theory of everything and yet explains nothing.
By the way, the official stance of most ID theorists is that it is not in any way related to a religion. By claiming that I'm going to hell (which is a little offensive by the way), you just blew your cover. Religion is not science. If you want to develop a scientific theory, religion can't have any role in that process.
I'd retort by saying that you're going to hell, but I don't personally believe that either a) trying to find out why we are here or b) defining one's life around empty lies can buy anyone a nice seat in hell. As you might have guessed, I don't actually believe in hell at all.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
Its not trying to find where we are, its automatically dismissing something that could be the truth. And going to hell is your choice not mine. My cover? I'm not covering anything. My agrument is holding up to yours completely though and all you can say is that it is retarded. I say you have nothing even close to proof, or really an idea. And I find ID as a totally complete solution that combats all angles of Evolution.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
so do I win?
squeakywaffle
Active member
HAHAHA
Sometimes I wonder why I dislike Christianity so much, and then people like you come along and remind me.
In the year 1400, they thought meteors were rocks thrown down at us by God. Do you believe that? Should the scientists of that era just have left it at that because they couldn't explain it at the time?
Sometimes I wonder why I dislike Christianity so much, and then people like you come along and remind me.
In the year 1400, they thought meteors were rocks thrown down at us by God. Do you believe that? Should the scientists of that era just have left it at that because they couldn't explain it at the time?
why must the goal of religion these days be to prove the stupidity of its own organizations and the goal of scientists be to destory god? If scientists feel the need to destroy a social support mechanism why not start attacking welfare or psychiatry or something? The belief in a higher power seems pretty inextricably human to me, in whatever form it may take. and the endless bickering and useless strings of logic fighting details that either proven or disproven wouldnt actually change anything just makes the scientific world seem vindictive and shows the religious world just shooting itself in the foot with its hollow self-assertions.
it amazes me how often people fight for details with no real understanding of a bigger goal. everyone gets lost in wording. people need science, people need religion. this argument shouldnt even exist.
like trying to get a dog to watch tv... jesus pointed, and everyone just stared at his finger.
it amazes me how often people fight for details with no real understanding of a bigger goal. everyone gets lost in wording. people need science, people need religion. this argument shouldnt even exist.
like trying to get a dog to watch tv... jesus pointed, and everyone just stared at his finger.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
I'm just messin with ya man, SKI HOBO thanks for trying like 10 times to post whore and ruin one of the most well made threads I've ever seen on here.
You are a total fan. You, nor I, nor anyone else has the right, or authority to judge whether or not someone else is going to hell. Don't do that, it is just silly.
I agree that people need to not completely disregard all ID, but, the people uber pro-ID cannot disregard evolution.
I agree that people need to not completely disregard all ID, but, the people uber pro-ID cannot disregard evolution.
your statement "Religion is not science. If you want to develop a scientific theory, religion can't have any role in that process" is completely unfounded. Do you know religious background information...it sure doesn't sound like it. I can see where you get this from though. The image that society and a few people put out about religion, mainly christianity, is that it is a religion with many rules and where science is the devil. This is 100% wrong.
Christianity as i see it could not agree more with science. If you want to experiment with this for yourself, read Genesis and take a Geological Time university level course. Then tell me whether or not you think religion and science compliment each other. Until you know both sides to the story you better not through statements like that around.
Your comment about why "you hate christianity": I am curious, can you tell me why? I am sure you have decent reasons. I am also pretty sure that most of these are idiotic societal portals of christianity, or those ideas shown to you be crazy conservative christians who do not like to think for themselves. I guarantee you that if you met me, you would at least change your views of christians a bit. No where in all of this thread have I thrown out crazy viewpoints or just slammed anyone's ideas. The comment from GotamaBCshred... about going to hell is humorous to me. He is just using it as a stupid way to try to make you feel bad or something like that. He has no clue what judgement can be places upon someone else.
Christianity as i see it could not agree more with science. If you want to experiment with this for yourself, read Genesis and take a Geological Time university level course. Then tell me whether or not you think religion and science compliment each other. Until you know both sides to the story you better not through statements like that around.
Your comment about why "you hate christianity": I am curious, can you tell me why? I am sure you have decent reasons. I am also pretty sure that most of these are idiotic societal portals of christianity, or those ideas shown to you be crazy conservative christians who do not like to think for themselves. I guarantee you that if you met me, you would at least change your views of christians a bit. No where in all of this thread have I thrown out crazy viewpoints or just slammed anyone's ideas. The comment from GotamaBCshred... about going to hell is humorous to me. He is just using it as a stupid way to try to make you feel bad or something like that. He has no clue what judgement can be places upon someone else.
GotamaBCshredder
Active member
no no, I think you wanted to say fag there not fan.