Euthenasia/assisted suicide.

timmi

Active member
well i have a project where i have to teach an entire class on the topic of euthenasia, which essentially is mercy killing. killing someone who doesnt want to live anymore. example, a old woman who is in the hospital and is in pain.

im not doing this so that you are doing my project, just interested to hear your views. although they may help

personally i beleive that if someone is in pain, and is not enjoying their time on earth, is there a point to them being here? i mean isnt it kind of selfish to make them suffer? that works both ways, too. with many resources appearing to be becoming scarce, it is in our best interest to not waste those on those who wish they werent here to be wasting them.

anyway open discussion time. GO.
 
i'm very split on the idea. i like to think that if someone is in a huge amount of pain, not happy in the least bit, and is probably going to die soon anyway, then in a sense you would be doing them a favor. but at the same time, it's still ending someone's life, which doesn't settle well with me either.i guess i'd be ok if it was legal and regulated very strictly, but it's still very bizarre.
 
I am actually all for it, unless the individual was in a situation in which they mentally couldn't make life or death determining decisions.

If the individual is in pain, maimed, crippled etc and they are mentally stable I believe it should be their choice to choose whether or not they would like to live or not.
 
i dont think i could live with myself if i ended another persons life. but i have to say that theere are extreme cases in which it may be appropriate to euthanise that person, but overall, i have to say that im against it
 
I'm a firm believer that people can do as they wish with their own lives, and nobody has the right to tell them otherwise. If somebody doesn't want to live anymore I expect they realize the effects it will have on the people around them and that death is absolute. With that in mind, I couldn't live with that kind of burden on my shoulders. I'd rather have it rigged up so if they were in a hospital they pushed a button or something rather than me pulling the plug and effectively making myself the killer. However, if a person is not in a situation like that and wants assisted suicide then they should really reconsider. If you really want to die and are capable of moving around there isn't any reason you can't do it yourself.
 
great discussion so far. but here is another point to ponder.

imagine:

your depressed. deeply depressed, so depressed that you dont do anything, pills dont work, nothing helps. all you think about doing is dieing. should you be forced to stay alive? i mean, if your depressed your not in a mindset to make life altering decisions, but if your that miserable with yourself, and you have been for years with no chance of it going away (depression doesnt just go away), is that fair?
 
opinion threads ussually end up in a hater feast.

personally i beleive that there is nothing wrong with it.If the person wants to go and they want you to help then its there choice, i dont think that the legal system has eny right to charge you. As for me, i dont think i could ever live with myself if i did it, but some people are stronger then others.
 
wiki Cruzan v. Missouri...there is a ton of constitutionality material regarding physician-assisted suicide

theres also a washington case, maybe washington v. glucksberg or something, anyway there's a ton of shit out there...pretty much any reasonable argument youre gonna need for the legal side of this project can be found in those two cases
 
It's hard with an old person, but i believe we should not be allowed to play god. but i know that when i used to be depressed i felt like there was no reason to live, and had thought about some fucked up shit, anyway now that im over that time in my life im happy i never did anything stupid, im happy im still alive. so its a really hard decision to make with an old person because they dont have much more living to do, maybe that person will miraculously get better, or maybe they will affect another persons life in a positive way. thats why we shouldnt play god
 
It's hard to say, for there are so many things to take into consideration. I would really need the exact situation in order to say whether it was right or not. I do agree with Aenigma on being a believer that one should be able to choose whatever it is they wish with their lives. There are basic situations in which a person is dying of old age, or someone has a terminal illness, in great pain and will never recover, that I would say it's not wrong. Again, I would need the actual situation. And I am not against it.
 
Im all for it and to make sure theres no confusion sometime down the road, I have a health care proxy in place. No veggie life for me bitches!
 
ever see "Million Dollar Baby"? the girl couldn't get the help she wanted and she tried committing suicide by biting her tongue off and bleeding to death. I'd rather her get a shot then have to go through that. I just don't see why a person's family can decide to pull the plug on someone if they're unconscious; but if the person is conscious and wants to die, they cant make that decision for themselves? dumb
 
against it. clearly, if you want to commit suicide, even if its assisted, you dont value your life enough. life is life. suicide is a sin in some religions. and even if you're atheist, thats even worse since theres no after life, theres nothing. would you rather feel something, or feel nothing for all eternity?

 
im all for it. if someone doesnt have the strength to end their own life due to immense pain or something...i think it is OK for someone to do it for em.
 
I'm taking an ethics class and we cover this later in the semester, but I will give you the articles that are in our book about it and they will show you two conflicting views, should help a bit.

James Rachel, "Active and Passive Euthanasia"

Emanuel Ezekiel, "Whose Right to Die"

Also, maybe you could even get into the whole paternalistic argument about whether the state is justified in prohibiting abortion. It seems to me its difficult to deal with as we can never know if the people who choose euthanasia regretted their decisions or not. I hope something here helps.

Oh, and its EuthAnasia
 
I'm pretty sure someone who is seriously contemplating suicide has thought about what death entails man.

I'm one hundred percent for it. Just look at the economics of it. Why waste resources on someone who wishes to die when there are those who want to live and aren't receiving the treatment etc. that they need.

Also, for people who say that "I was depressed... blah blah blah, I'm glad I'm still alive", I'm not trying to take away from your experience, but it's not as if armed euthanasia agents would arrive at your door the moment you thought of the word suicide. I'm sure there would be a ludicrous amount of paperwork/probably even a waiting period for those without a terminal illness. Grabbing some pills or a rope will always be a more readily available path.
 
I disagree, Somebody can have great value in their life, but they dont want to continue living it, it sounds strange, but if an 88 year old man is satisfied with the life that he has lived, and is in severe pain to which he knows there will be no end durring his life, he could be satisfied enough with the life he has lived and want to die. As for your point of the atheist, They have nothing to fear about being dead because there is no consiousness, rather the rational fear would be that of dying to early or before they were ready to die, but if they are ready to die because the rest of their life will be pain, then they may be ready for death, which wont have the same pain as life (not an atheist by the way)
 
I think euthenasia is illegal except in cases with a feeding tube or respirator, so I dont think there is much paperwork, it is usually an assisted thing where somebody close to them will help them OD or something like that
 
I assumed that he is teaching his class and eventually presenting an opinion on whether it should be legalized since that's a relatively contested issue in the U.S.
 
Euthanasia assisted suicide absolutely should be an option for anyone who can make the autonomous decision for it. Each individual should have the freedom to make their life choices-- if there is something wrong about the individual ending their own life that is their own personal matter, not something for anyone else to play a paternal role.

none of us would want others to tell us that we cannot try to ski a particularly gnarly line --sure there are times when it aught to be obvious to us that it shouldn't be done, but ultimately it is up to the individual's discretion to whether or not they want to drop

perhaps this is a poor example because dropping a gnarly line might entail putting others at risk-- with Euthanasia it's not exactly putting others in harms way-- individuals still must evaluate what duties/obligations they have to others -- but in the end it's still an individuals decision.

Euthanasia gets tricky when the patient does not have full autonomy; obviously you can't ask someone who's in a coma whether or not they want to be Euthenised. It should be the case then that a health care provider (doctor) can make the decision to cease providing life-support. This is passive euthanasia (also known as letting die, but should imo be called letting live). By ceasing to provide life-support the doctor is only letting nature take its course (which is why i think it should be letting live, as death is a part of life and a part of nature). If a lifeguard pulls a drowned swimmer from the pool, and provides CPR -- you wouldn't say the lifeguard killed the swimmer if they ceased to give CPR, the swimmer died by drowning.

 
You're beliefs don't dictate whether or not you experiance an afterlife, and you're reasoning is flawed -- if you're an athiest, and don't believe in an afterlife you arn't conscious of feeling or anything at all.

what did you feel last night between falling asleep and waking up this morning -- maybe you remeber a dream, but what about the time when you wern't dreaming, what were those 5-6 hours like? Your lack of an account for that time is what it'd be like to be dead without an afterlife -- simply nothing. You wouldn't be aware of it -- so there would be no misery.

On the contrary feeling anything for eternity has got to be a terable experiance-- How exhausted would you be if you were consciously "alive" forever?

Take some time to wrap your mind around eternity, fully comprehend exactly what that is, and i'd bet you'd find at some point nothing can be better than something.

 
how would you determine whether or not the family would have the dying person's best intrest in mind? Perhaps mom and pop are overzealous religIous nuts who would never approve of euthenasia, while the patient doesn't share the same views.
 
I think that a person that is in alot of pain and will never not be in pain until there dead should choose wether they want to die or not. I just think it's a dick move to comit suicide because then your familly has to question themselves and if they treated you right and if it was ther fault.
 
i think it should be up to the doctor. i dont know if i could let someone die knowing i would be able to save them...
 
for this Peter Singer is your main man, check out some of his essays and books.

Anyway you can read part of an essay I wrote on the matter if you want. it's not that well written cause it was a day before effort haha

There are several types of euthanasia. Non-voluntary euthanasia occurs when the subject has never had the capacity to live or die. An example of this is a severely disabled infant or someone who has been severely intellectually handicapped from birth. Also included in non-voluntary cases are those who have had the ability to make a choice on euthanasia, but did not have any preference, and are now not capable of making such a choice.

Voluntary euthanasia occurs at the request of the person to be killed. Often voluntary euthanasia is very similar to assisted suicide – this is the type of euthanasia most advocates are campaigning for legislation of.

The third type of euthanasia is involuntary euthanasia. This is different to non-voluntary euthanasia and the two should not be confused. Involuntary euthanasia occurs when the person killed is able to consent to their death, but for some reason doesn’t. This could be because the person in question wasn’t asked, or because the person was asked but chose to continue to live. Singer states:

“Killing someone who has not consented to being killed can properly be regarded as euthanasia only when the motive of killing is the desire to prevent unbearable suffering on the part of the person killed. It is, of course, odd that anyone acting from this motive should disregard the wishes of the person for whose sake the action is done”

It does indeed seem strange that someone would kill someone who would, and can consent to being killed, without first seeking consent. It would seem that in most cases there would be some other motive.

As well as the three types of euthanasia there are two forms that euthanasia may take. Euthanasia may either be passive or active. Active euthanasia involves a deliberate action in order to kill the person suffering. Someone being sedated and then being administered a fatal dose of a poison, for example, would be active euthanasia. Also included in this category are things such as suicide tablets and other methods of invoking euthanasia. Passive euthanasia on the other hand involves a deliberate lack of action. For example, an elderly rest home patient may be restricted to bed and in a very poor state. They may get an infection, which is treatable, and for a healthy person would be treated. With the consent of the patient’s family a decision may be made not to treat the infection, and thus allow the patient to die a natural death from natural causes, which in other circumstances would have been preventable.

For the purposes of this essay only voluntary euthanasia will be considered.

Peter Singer poses a strong argument for voluntary euthanasia. He begins by stating that “death is a benefit for the one killed.” This utilitarian statement is based on act utilitarianism. If the happiness gained from the death were greater than the combined unhappiness, then an artificial death would be acceptable.

A classical utilitarian objection to killing is that killing will spread fear and insecurity. Singer explains that this would not apply in the case of voluntary euthanasia because the individual to die would be willing and give their full consent to their death. For this reason no one should hold a fear of feel insecure about their own death, because if one did not wish to die, they would simply not give consent. This argument is valid, although there is a possibility that elderly citizens may feel pressured to end their life simply because there is an option of euthanasia available. If an elderly citizen were to suffer some medical condition that made them unable to look after themselves, thus requiring then to be moved to a rest home, they may feel that they should choose to end their life instead of consuming their families inheritance. Singer responds to this scenario by stating that it is merely a technicality to be resolved in euthanasia legislation and that the guidelines developed in the Netherlands provide a good example of how to overcome this issue. The guidelines state euthanasia is only acceptable if:

- It is carried out by a physician.

- The patient has explicitly requested euthanasia in a manner that leaves no doubt of the patient’s desire to die.

- The patient’s decision is well informed, free and durable.

- The patient has an irreversible condition causing protracted physical of mental suffering that the patient finds unbearable.

- There is no reasonable alternative (reasonable from the patient’s point of view) to alleviate the patient’s suffering.

- The doctor has consulted another independent professional who agrees with his or her judgment.

With guidelines such as these it seems hard to imagine a situation where one would be pressured into euthanasia. It would be expected that doctors and other health professionals would always act ethically and strictly obey the guidelines, without letting external influences mar their decision.

From a human rights perspective, there are many strong arguments against euthanasia. These negative arguments outweigh the rights of liberty and the concept of self-ownership. Self-ownership as a concept would allow one to choose euthanasia. This is because one is the owner of their body and should therefore be free to do with it as he or she pleases. The right to liberty also should allow the freedom to choose euthanasia, however if euthanasia was legal people may fear that in the future, with further liberalisation that they may be killed against their will. Thus freedoms for one group begin to cause license for another group.

A Human Rights perspective provides a much stronger argument against euthanasia than for. A fundamental right is the right to life. Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.” Rights are inalienable and cannot be surrendered or given up. As the right to life is perhaps the most important right, it cannot be denied in pursuit of a right to liberty. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights further emphasises this in article six. The first statement in article 6 is:

“Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.” The fact that it explicitly states “inherent” right to life makes it clear that this is a fundamental right. Dinstein proposes that “…the term “inherent” suggests that the framers of the ICCPR regarded the right to life as part of international customary law.” That law protects the “right to life” further emphasises that this right may not be given up.

Although active euthanasia from a human rights perspective if wrong, it may be possible to allow passive euthanasia. For medical professionals passive euthanasia poses an ethical dilemma. If an elderly patient is in palliative care and receives treatment to cure an infection then the doctor had fulfilled his moral obligation to sustain life. However if the patient did not receive the treatment then they would eventually die as a result. For a doctor this would amount to negligence. However a patient also has a right to accept or deny medical treatment. If the patient is capable of making logical decisions then they are able to make a choice to not receive treatment and thus allow passive euthanasia to occur.

To conclude, Singer provides the most adequate argument for euthanasia. He covers many points and addresses many of the questions raised about euthanasia. He explains in a clear and concise way his reasoning on the matter. The human rights perspective does not satisfactorily provide a reason to allow euthanasia, other than passive euthanasia. Ultimately Human Rights provide a reason as to why euthanasia should remain unlawful.

 
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