Young_patty
Active member
*Back country bros who spent $2000 on an ultra-light setup and pin bindings watching me pull out ANOTHER beer from my pack as I pass by on a broken daymaker*
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Elitism in the backcountry
- Thread starter pbs
- Start date
SavageBiff
Active member
Duplicate this for me stepping into dukes while someone adjusts their shift or clears ice out of it, no beer blunt tho
14293742:Young_patty said:
Gmeister25
Member
14293271:Millenialfalcon said:
-141...
**This post was edited on Jun 1st 2021 at 12:59:34pm
Idk, you complained about elitism then talked about hating new comers and how long your family has been there.
Honestly it doesn't realy matter where you live, if people are cool they're cool, if they aren't they aren't.
As far as people movin, there's just too many friggin people in this country.
As for gear(unless safety gear or someting crazy necessary) use what you got, have fun, buy better stuff when the funds are there.
My first touring setup was shit, but it got me out there and I was stoked on it even though it was heavy, turned like shit, etc. But i rocked it for a few years till I could afford something nicer
Also their will always be people with the nicest gear that lack ability. They can afford nice stuff but aren't necessarily any good. Those people tend to chirp a bunch.
Just have fun, stay safe, and ignore the haters.
Honestly it doesn't realy matter where you live, if people are cool they're cool, if they aren't they aren't.
As far as people movin, there's just too many friggin people in this country.
As for gear(unless safety gear or someting crazy necessary) use what you got, have fun, buy better stuff when the funds are there.
My first touring setup was shit, but it got me out there and I was stoked on it even though it was heavy, turned like shit, etc. But i rocked it for a few years till I could afford something nicer
Also their will always be people with the nicest gear that lack ability. They can afford nice stuff but aren't necessarily any good. Those people tend to chirp a bunch.
Just have fun, stay safe, and ignore the haters.
Titus69
Active member
14293735:DeebieSkeebies said:
I’ve only been scared of breaking mine early season at the resorts before I had a resort ski, one break did become super wobbly but just got a fresh one and made sure that little bolt was tight as fuck. The black and gold ones were sus, the new kingpins are pretty bomber I’ve found overall.
katrina
Active member
My only concern about the BC is do the other companions on the mountain have the equipment and ability to respond to an emergency if one were to arise. Outside of that, do what you can to get out there!
I always drive over Loveland pass by me with my transponder out the window on search mode. If I detect someone trying to hitchhike with a beacon on, I always pick up.
I've never picked anyone up on Loveland pass, so yea that's my biggest issue is do you have the gear and know how. But gear shaming is lame is that's what it is.
I always drive over Loveland pass by me with my transponder out the window on search mode. If I detect someone trying to hitchhike with a beacon on, I always pick up.
I've never picked anyone up on Loveland pass, so yea that's my biggest issue is do you have the gear and know how. But gear shaming is lame is that's what it is.
SavageBiff
Active member
I’ll remember to have my beacon on when I go there, I’ve got the gear, but I’ve got training to do yet before anyone can count on me tho, need hands on as well, I can dig like a freak beast tho and I’ll never abandon anyone, I didn’t get as far as I wanted this year, but I’m thinking about patrol/rescue when I retire my my current responsibilities. Wish more people had your attitude towards people, their gear/apparel and safety standards, too many cliques / h8rs out there.
14293819:katrina said:
14293731:AndrewGravesSV said:
Lol that all sounds like total bullshit... who the actual fuck judges someone's decision making ability on whether they have fancy gear or not? If there are actual people who do this, then they are complete jokers, and you should stay away from partnering up with those kooks.
I have spent a lot of time in the backcountry, talking to backcountry skiers, and selling backcountry gear... Never have I heard a notion of 'oh they dont know what theyre doing.. look at them, they use Marker Barons' lol. The only thing that I have ever heard referencing that is along the lines of 'dude, you might want to try some tech boots and some bindings with pins, youll be much more efficient or transition quicker etc'.
Hell, my father sports some fritschi freerides and dobermans in the backcountry and Im always suggesting he at least get a pair of touring boots with a walk mode (he comes from the 'if it aint broke' mentality) but he's as safe and smart in the backcountry as they come.
Now, if we are talking about the 3 necessary pieces of avalanche gear, and someone is sporting a plastic shovel, a janky probe, and one of the recently recalled pieps transceivers, then I would give anyone license to judge that person... I
want people sporting good avalanche gear, partner or not... If someone gives you shade for cheapening out in that arena, then Im probably taking their side. If I see someone rocking a fancy electric airbag, but they are then using an Ortovox F1, then lawl... Im probably going to rip them.
percs
Active member
op such an athlete man you coulda been d1 bro. I bet you could through a football over mt Rainer and skin all the way to the otherside in day trekkers for a touchdown. bro that switch ride down thoooo. man what I would do to be there and see your juicy glutes in action daddy ?
ZappaStache
Member
Shifts are junk but Dukes ice up like crazy dude. One of my usual partners carries a fuckin butter knife to clear the ice out of his during transitions.
Pin bindings are way easier to tour on and are robust enough to ski anything in the BC. Chad’s has been hit on kingpins and yet people still act like the 15 footers they’re dropping are too rowdy for pins. If you’re doing short laps on a sled accessed zone frames or even daywreckers will do the trick but thinking about doing a long tour on them is a PITA.
Pin bindings are way easier to tour on and are robust enough to ski anything in the BC. Chad’s has been hit on kingpins and yet people still act like the 15 footers they’re dropping are too rowdy for pins. If you’re doing short laps on a sled accessed zone frames or even daywreckers will do the trick but thinking about doing a long tour on them is a PITA.
14293745:SavageBiff said:
Millenialfalcon
Member
? I’ve never seen anyone get made fun of for old gear but the shift is the ass of countless jokes.
14293824:DingoSean said:
SavageBiff
Active member
Def not here to discount pin bindings, and my experience is nil so I can’t say, I bought dukes cause I wanted both resort and light tour, if I do a full pin setup I’d probably get KPs, moment voyager 14 or cast. I’d considered daymakers but I’m def not carrying those in my pack.
Only thing I’m set on for sure right now is quiver killers for any new ski.
Only thing I’m set on for sure right now is quiver killers for any new ski.
14293837:ZappaStache said:
SavageBiff
Active member
I’ve already got dukes you goofball ? this entire time I’ve been talking about “if” I get a pure tour setup.
You had Covid right? Must be the long haul affecting both your memories and rants bc they’ve gotten real boring and that’s a shame, there was a time your posts were roasts not rants or ramblings of a bitter ol ginger. What’s got ya panties in a bunch? Someone forget to set your morning cookies out with your milk, no ginger snaps?
You had Covid right? Must be the long haul affecting both your memories and rants bc they’ve gotten real boring and that’s a shame, there was a time your posts were roasts not rants or ramblings of a bitter ol ginger. What’s got ya panties in a bunch? Someone forget to set your morning cookies out with your milk, no ginger snaps?
14293848:skierman said:
Titus69
Active member
14293824:DingoSean said:
I’ve only been slightly made fun of when my friend and I were once in the ol’ dat makers and a guy was like “damn two daywreckers out here?” I laughed though, cause I hated em after a while. Caroline gleich even past me as I dealt with a shitty skinner in those things, I said sorry, she said she understood my pain cause she use to have trekkers way back. Otherwise I’ve only seen one kinda skimo nerd call out this crew I also saw party shred something fairly steep, sloughing a bit all over, glad he did it.
I worked for a guy recently and we got into the conversation of touring, first question he asked me was if I had an airbag, before education even, I said yes I do, but I’ve taken classes too and rarely use it, and pretty quickly realized, I’d never tour with this guy.
I never try to judge someone’s knowledge out there, I know there’s smarter people than me and they might just like their old setups vs my kinda light but chargy setup, even when I pass people on a skinner I always tell them they might pass me later on and try to be friendly, sometimes they’re assholes out there about it.
14293839:Millenialfalcon said:
I cant tell you how many times I have steered people away from the shifts, only to see them buy it and come tell me later that they should have listened to me.
I think its a super awesome concept and for those who never have issues with theirs, rock on, but god damn there seem to be enough issues with them.. I cant justify suggesting them at all if youre really going to use them for touring on an at all frequent basis.
I always just say invest in your avy gear and boots... figure the skis and bindings out later. If you have good avy gear, education, and good touring boots, then youll be miles better off than if you pump all your money into those carbon skis and super light bindings.
Bended_Toenail
Active member
14293898:DingoSean said:
If you want a somewhat solid resort binding that you can occasionally tour on and you don't charge super hard-- MAYBE buy Shifts
If you want a 50/50 hard-charging resort/bc binding-- do not buy shifts.
Not a terrible binding by any means, but I've been in some pretty bad situations because of them before.
Titus69
Active member
14293902:Bended_Toenail said:
If you have the cash and really just ski 80-90% resort and the rest BC a cast is a better option, the shift is perfect for the Jerry, barely tours, when they do its some basic shit they can confidently ski down on, but really just mediocre otherwise. I have friends who have skied em all year in and out of bounds, but mine lasted about 25 days before one toe stopped locking in walk mode, and seen a lot eject from the ski itself. Casts are pretty bomber, just for a regular BC skier it’s kinda heavy and annoying to deal with the toe piece thing but someone who just wants to get out every couple cycles before the resort it’s better than shifts, and I guess for all around sending, except you can send on pins still.
Bended_Toenail
Active member
14293909:Titus69 said:
Yeah, I have had cast on the majority of my skis over the past few years. It is way more practical and I don't do a ton of super long tours (but when I do I have a lighter setup), so I don't mind the extra weight. I've had shifts refuse to release my boot, and the same shifts would always pre-release. Honestly kingpins are a pretty damn solid option too
Titus69
Active member
14293912:Bended_Toenail said:
Yeah I’d really only have a cast for big single run days, but again I’ve skied kingpins confidently on most things a cast is “necessary” to some people in here for but would only want a pivot if I were to spin the hit and not just straight air, not something I plan to do often in the BC. I shit on casts, or I guess some of the crowd actually, but I’ll own a pair eventually I’m sure, ideally whenever I’d own a sled.
BradFiAusNzCoCa
Active member
Anyone see that recent insta video of Andy Hays losing a shoe on the run out of tight line because of the shift?
14293898:DingoSean said:
14293902:Bended_Toenail said:
14293909:Titus69 said:
Titus69
Active member
14293930:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
Dude I saw a chick blow her toe off doing a pond skim, things have a boof mount pattern for the toe it seemed. I assume Salomon athletes get two sets a season cause they know they’ll need at least that, mine lasted 30 days lmao. Yet the Salomon MTN can be charged and sorta sent on and not break, oh yeah cause it doesn’t have a fuck load of moving parts.
14293902:Bended_Toenail said:
I know its not feasible for a lot of people, but I always suggest specializing rather than compromising. Get a touring ski for touring and an in-bounds ski for inbounds. Buy second hand skis and then get your bindings on sale in the summertime if you have a real budget crunch. the majority of skis I am on today have several sets of holes, either from me swapping bindings or from getting them on the second hand market.
I cant tell you how many pairs I have accrued for less than 50$ just because they have been mounted once and need a tune. My go-to touring setup that has followed me around the world for the last 6 years is a pair of twice mounted 192 Armada TSTs I bought for 45$. My Black Diamond Havocs came from a dumpster find, and the Dynafit Tourlites that are mounted on them ended up being free after I sold the pair of skis I bought them on for what I got the whole setup for)
Whoever said skiing is a rich man's sport aint doing it right
mcswizzle
Member
At this point, I pretty much just ignore other people while skiing out of bounds as much as I can and keep to my party. Other parties have plans to execute. Whether they succeed or fail is not my business 99% of the time. But not everyone feels this way. Its so common that other skiers make snide comments, eavesdrop on conversations so they can butt in to offer some "corrections", make fun of gear, insist you're doing something dangerous, etc. Often times with BC skiers or certain climbers (the type from Boulder) or whatever species of "hardcore mountain yuppie" there's like a script you are supposed to rehearse about snowpack or safety or some technical observations to establish yourself as "one of the real ones". Hold your left hand on the AIARE field book and right hand to God while reciting what's going on with the persistent weak layers. Impressions and reputations are contingent on an unknown number of unwritten rules. Say you've had a great mentor, a long apprenticeship in the mountains, and consistently practice excellent avy forecasting/obs habits but haven't taken avy 1? You're a troglodytic pariah with a death wish. Bold route idea that involves some inherent risk? Oblivious idiot destined for a toe tag. Baggier pant? Stoned park rat intent on jib-based skin track destruction. Why do skiers expect the absolute worst from other BC skiers?
Its weird that people involved in an activity that has enormous variety of possibilities have such a limited grasp of this potential. It makes no sense to maintain a rigid status quo on gear, vocabulary, or background/training in an activity with such vastly different goals, outcomes, and consequences. Often times with BC skiers or climbers or whatever species of "hardcore mountain person" there's like a script you are supposed to rehearse about snowpack or safety or some technical observations to establish yourself as "one of the real ones". Say you've had a great mentor, a long apprenticeship in the mountains, and consistently practice excellent avy forecasting/obs habits but haven't taken avy 1? You're a troglodytic pariah with a death wish. Bold route idea that involves some inherent risk? Oblivious idiot destined for a toe tag. Baggier pants? Stoned park rat intent on a femur fracture and an emergency extrication.
The intense focus on safety is part of this; everyone is "concerned" about your safety. The OP makes an interesting point, and some of the "old-timers" have mentioned similar patterns with respect to gear improvements. It seems as BC skiing becomes more mainstream, more and more emphasis is placed on safety to make the sport more palatable. Mountaineering/alpinism is becoming less and less popular because its super dangerous, and in many ways, the whole point is to confront danger and challenge. When a skier dies in an avy, people conjecture all the stupid shit the person did to deserve their fate. When a climber dies from say rock fall- unless its from some really glaring error- its accepted that death is always a possibility when climbing. And what do you know, the relatively safe genre of sport climbing is currently exploding in popularity. There's an interesting relationship between elitism and safety I think. During the pandemic, I couldn't believe how much attention was given to the dozen avy fatalities in CO vs the tens of thousands of deaths from COVID. CAIC made a bunch of ads, stories about avalanches graced the evening news, and my friends who don't ski mentioned this trend to to me. To me it was like, go ski the BC naked, just make sure to wear a mask at Walmart.
Increasing your safety margin in the BC is very expensive, thus yuppies with the most expensive safety systems put themselves in the position of lifeguard of the backcountry. The argument goes that those who choose the less expensive beacon (or whatever) aren't looked down upon because they are being cheap, but because they are being unsafe. In reality, 10 years ago, all the equipment would have been considered unsafe by today's standards. Its just not that safe a sport, but the guarantee of bodily safety falls within the domain of the rich. I honestly think (and this is more a hypothesis) that the the illusion of safety that comes in the form of expensive gear is what keeps adventure sports marketable and popular.
I always spin out of control posting about this topic and I'm probably gonna get plenty of reminders to "suck it up" and that "there are just douche bags out there". I just can't come to grasps with why skiers are so often dicks to other BC skiers. Just to clarify, if I came upon an accident, I would help to the best of my abilities. I carry all my avy gear when skiing solo for this reason. Of course, I've met some really cool people out and about. And getting hurt or dying is bad, I'm not advocating for recklessness.
Its weird that people involved in an activity that has enormous variety of possibilities have such a limited grasp of this potential. It makes no sense to maintain a rigid status quo on gear, vocabulary, or background/training in an activity with such vastly different goals, outcomes, and consequences. Often times with BC skiers or climbers or whatever species of "hardcore mountain person" there's like a script you are supposed to rehearse about snowpack or safety or some technical observations to establish yourself as "one of the real ones". Say you've had a great mentor, a long apprenticeship in the mountains, and consistently practice excellent avy forecasting/obs habits but haven't taken avy 1? You're a troglodytic pariah with a death wish. Bold route idea that involves some inherent risk? Oblivious idiot destined for a toe tag. Baggier pants? Stoned park rat intent on a femur fracture and an emergency extrication.
The intense focus on safety is part of this; everyone is "concerned" about your safety. The OP makes an interesting point, and some of the "old-timers" have mentioned similar patterns with respect to gear improvements. It seems as BC skiing becomes more mainstream, more and more emphasis is placed on safety to make the sport more palatable. Mountaineering/alpinism is becoming less and less popular because its super dangerous, and in many ways, the whole point is to confront danger and challenge. When a skier dies in an avy, people conjecture all the stupid shit the person did to deserve their fate. When a climber dies from say rock fall- unless its from some really glaring error- its accepted that death is always a possibility when climbing. And what do you know, the relatively safe genre of sport climbing is currently exploding in popularity. There's an interesting relationship between elitism and safety I think. During the pandemic, I couldn't believe how much attention was given to the dozen avy fatalities in CO vs the tens of thousands of deaths from COVID. CAIC made a bunch of ads, stories about avalanches graced the evening news, and my friends who don't ski mentioned this trend to to me. To me it was like, go ski the BC naked, just make sure to wear a mask at Walmart.
Increasing your safety margin in the BC is very expensive, thus yuppies with the most expensive safety systems put themselves in the position of lifeguard of the backcountry. The argument goes that those who choose the less expensive beacon (or whatever) aren't looked down upon because they are being cheap, but because they are being unsafe. In reality, 10 years ago, all the equipment would have been considered unsafe by today's standards. Its just not that safe a sport, but the guarantee of bodily safety falls within the domain of the rich. I honestly think (and this is more a hypothesis) that the the illusion of safety that comes in the form of expensive gear is what keeps adventure sports marketable and popular.
I always spin out of control posting about this topic and I'm probably gonna get plenty of reminders to "suck it up" and that "there are just douche bags out there". I just can't come to grasps with why skiers are so often dicks to other BC skiers. Just to clarify, if I came upon an accident, I would help to the best of my abilities. I carry all my avy gear when skiing solo for this reason. Of course, I've met some really cool people out and about. And getting hurt or dying is bad, I'm not advocating for recklessness.
after the soli quest boot debacle, that almost cost my bro his leg.
i stopped selling or supporting them.
the shift isnt for me, to finickey and i can git what i want done on atk fr14 with less weight and little to no fiddle factor or problems
but i did put a pair of mountain labs on some carbon fibered skis i pressed
and after 60 or so days on em the past couple seasons
im impressed. Ive skied out of em inbounds in icey moguls as i have with other tech toes
but skied em hard n fast in soft snow and not had any issues
knocks on wood
strong post above
it seems a lot think my way of bc skiing is the right way and all should follow
i dont expect you to share my path that
started in the 90's and no i never took avvy 1
I will say speaking from experiance there seems to be a point a few years into it where you think you know way more than you do and your quite judgemental of others
then shit happens like watching someone take a nasty ride on a low danger day in the middle of a low danger week
Or friends/partners who probably had as good if not better pass away
and you look back and realize how many mistakes you and yuor crew got away with
We lose an addict a day to overdoses yet a death in the bc is somehow differently avoidable
other than those musings the farther you go from the trailhead the less peeps youll deal with
and the farther you go the heavier what ever your haulin seems
i stopped selling or supporting them.
the shift isnt for me, to finickey and i can git what i want done on atk fr14 with less weight and little to no fiddle factor or problems
but i did put a pair of mountain labs on some carbon fibered skis i pressed
and after 60 or so days on em the past couple seasons
im impressed. Ive skied out of em inbounds in icey moguls as i have with other tech toes
but skied em hard n fast in soft snow and not had any issues
knocks on wood
strong post above
it seems a lot think my way of bc skiing is the right way and all should follow
i dont expect you to share my path that
started in the 90's and no i never took avvy 1
I will say speaking from experiance there seems to be a point a few years into it where you think you know way more than you do and your quite judgemental of others
then shit happens like watching someone take a nasty ride on a low danger day in the middle of a low danger week
Or friends/partners who probably had as good if not better pass away
and you look back and realize how many mistakes you and yuor crew got away with
We lose an addict a day to overdoses yet a death in the bc is somehow differently avoidable
other than those musings the farther you go from the trailhead the less peeps youll deal with
and the farther you go the heavier what ever your haulin seems
14293965:mcswizzle said:
So much this... The only direct interactions I seem to have with other skiers is at the trailhead before splitting off, or during the odd passing on the skin up. 90% of the time its followed solely with a friendly hello, or even just a subtle nod during a gasp for oxygen... the remaining 10% being a modest query about the zone or a joke about the snow conditions/ weather. I have yet to encounter another skier or group and receive a snide comment or so much as even an inkling of bad attitude.
I seriously dont know where the angst in this thread is coming from... OP, do you ski somewhere that turns people into jerks? Because I dont have any matching experience or know anyone who can relate, and I really want to know what lead to this being posted in the first place.
guelah_papyrus
Member
14294022:pbs said:
Don't worry there's plenty of pretentious smug assholes here also in Colorado! Luckily in the backcountry it's pretty easy to get away from them!
14294022:pbs said:
I also find that bullshit. Ive done tours in Washington within a hour distance of Seattle on at least 8 or 9 occasions.. nothing seemed any more different or any more pretentious than backcountry skiers in the i70 or i80 corridors in California or Colorado where I lived.
and you cant convince me that the Denver or the Bay Area backcountry scenes are any less pretentious than Seattle... lol.
Casey
Active member
14294097:DingoSean said:
It’s more that Seattle has now become one of those over burdened shitholes when it didn’t used to be. So people that were here before it sucked are over it, and just kind of wish everyone would pack up and GTFO, where if you just randomly showed up with no context you wouldn’t really know the difference