Drill baby drill
- Thread starter pmills
- Start date
feihlination
Active member
its always funny how every little thing gets blown up to a major mistake by obama.
surely, bush supporters know who the fail-master was.
surely, bush supporters know who the fail-master was.
pmills
Active member
trying to bring some value back to this thread:
http://www.gregpalast.com/slick-operator-the-bp-ive-known-too-well/
Greg Palast, was a fraud investigator for the Exxon Valdez disaster.
He says Despite Exxon's name on that boat, I found the party most to blame for the destruction was ... British Petroleum. That's important to know, because the way BP caused devastation in Alaska is exactly the way BP is now sliming the entire Gulf Coast.
and as for the "where was hell was the Government!" rhetoric, Palast says,
Why didn't the government do something to stop it?
The answer is, because government took you at your word they should get out of the way of business, that business could be trusted to police itself. It was only last month that BP, lobbying for new deepwater drilling, testified to Congress that additional equipment and inspection wasn't needed.
http://www.gregpalast.com/slick-operator-the-bp-ive-known-too-well/
Greg Palast, was a fraud investigator for the Exxon Valdez disaster.
He says Despite Exxon's name on that boat, I found the party most to blame for the destruction was ... British Petroleum. That's important to know, because the way BP caused devastation in Alaska is exactly the way BP is now sliming the entire Gulf Coast.
and as for the "where was hell was the Government!" rhetoric, Palast says,
Why didn't the government do something to stop it?
The answer is, because government took you at your word they should get out of the way of business, that business could be trusted to police itself. It was only last month that BP, lobbying for new deepwater drilling, testified to Congress that additional equipment and inspection wasn't needed.
pmills
Active member
as opposed to what?
when you two come here just trying to get a rise out of people, it's just plain disrespectful.
If you two just want to sit around pulling each others' plonker, no one is going to stop you -- but at least have the courtesy to do it privately. It's embarrassing (for us, and you) to see how small you are.
when you two come here just trying to get a rise out of people, it's just plain disrespectful.
If you two just want to sit around pulling each others' plonker, no one is going to stop you -- but at least have the courtesy to do it privately. It's embarrassing (for us, and you) to see how small you are.
sk1er
Member
I like this idea
http://www.livescience.com/technology/russia-nuke-gulf-oil-well-100512.html
Weapons labs in the former Soviet Union developed special nukes for use to help pinch off the gas wells. They believed that the force from a nuclear explosion could squeeze shut any hole within 82 to 164 feet (25 to 50 meters), depending on the explosion's power. That required drilling holes to place the nuclear device close to the target wells.
Apparently they've done it a few times successfully.
http://www.livescience.com/technology/russia-nuke-gulf-oil-well-100512.html
Weapons labs in the former Soviet Union developed special nukes for use to help pinch off the gas wells. They believed that the force from a nuclear explosion could squeeze shut any hole within 82 to 164 feet (25 to 50 meters), depending on the explosion's power. That required drilling holes to place the nuclear device close to the target wells.
Apparently they've done it a few times successfully.
H8CH
Active member
Still not sure on the cause of the BOP failure... but, as is being reported, the cementing operation is probably at the centre of this investigation, at least partially, and I know the upper 9" production casing was ejected out of the hole by the force of the blowout, and I believe that this is what has mangled / blocked the rams in the bop.... I can't wait till they stop this shit and recover the BOP to find out exactly what state of manglement it's in, and why... then the truth will all be very obvious as to the cause of this i suspect.... Rigzone has some good, no biased and technically correct reports on this - too much BS flying around on the internet and media right now...
Phormat
Member
this is interesting, according to this source, BP experienced problems before the riser failed. http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/12/news/companies/bp_house_hearing/
Tasche
Active member
It’s a pretty common occurrence during a cementing job for something to go wrong. Incorrect volumes, not dropping the wiper plug, lost returns, and many other mistakes and natural problems can occur. Because the cement is so much denser (or can be) than the drilling fluid, just pumping the cement can break down weaker formations. The cement will flow into the easier formation reducing the hydrostatic head on the hydrocarbon formation.
I am a little confused on the riser/casing set up though; maybe H8CH can help me out. So they were cementing their production string, so returns were flowing down the casing and up the riser? I guess I don’t understand what they were filling with sea water to disconnect? Shouldn’t the riser have been full of cementing pre flush? I guess they would have landed the casing on the well head, then disconnected after the cement job but I just don’t understand what was in the riser. If you have time could you explain this operation?
Anyway, my assumption is that for whatever reason, improper mix, incorrect volumes, lost returns, the well lost hydrostatic head needed to control the well and the pressure from the formation literally ejected the casing and all the cement blocking the BOP from operating.
I wonder where they saw pressure; the way I am thinking is that the only thing connected was the riser. They disconnected whatever they used to pump the cement job so there was no annulus, just the riser. What is the ID of the riser and casing? Pretty crazy shit, I could see a regulation come out that requires companies to sit for 24 hours after a cement job with the BOP closed and make sure there is no pressure, or maybe the cement volumes were too great and it flowed into the BOP and clogged it up. Once they recover the BOP a lot of questions will be answered.
I am a little confused on the riser/casing set up though; maybe H8CH can help me out. So they were cementing their production string, so returns were flowing down the casing and up the riser? I guess I don’t understand what they were filling with sea water to disconnect? Shouldn’t the riser have been full of cementing pre flush? I guess they would have landed the casing on the well head, then disconnected after the cement job but I just don’t understand what was in the riser. If you have time could you explain this operation?
Anyway, my assumption is that for whatever reason, improper mix, incorrect volumes, lost returns, the well lost hydrostatic head needed to control the well and the pressure from the formation literally ejected the casing and all the cement blocking the BOP from operating.
I wonder where they saw pressure; the way I am thinking is that the only thing connected was the riser. They disconnected whatever they used to pump the cement job so there was no annulus, just the riser. What is the ID of the riser and casing? Pretty crazy shit, I could see a regulation come out that requires companies to sit for 24 hours after a cement job with the BOP closed and make sure there is no pressure, or maybe the cement volumes were too great and it flowed into the BOP and clogged it up. Once they recover the BOP a lot of questions will be answered.
H8CH
Active member
I just glanced over your post (and haven't read that link - most CNN / Fox reports are soooo off the mark it's not true... ) but, typically, you wouldn't start displacing your riser until the final cement plug was set. Here, the upper casing had been run, and cemented 20 hrs previous to the blowout. They had performed 2 out of a possible 3 integrity tests on this, and it was golden apparently. The thing is here, that they would not of even known that they had a problem until they started to displace the riser as i believe the annulus in which the pressure build up had occurred was not gauged, but im not 100% sure on that. I know, as i have previously mentioned, and what also hasn't come out, that they had been experiencing problems downhole previously on this well, losing circulation to the formation... so there is obviously well bore integrity issues - maybe some of these were not captured during the drilling, and therefore permitted a migration path up the bore - but that is total speculation now. Essentially, there are sooo many layers of protection that have failed here, for some sort of catasrophic, very very unique and maybe even never before experienced phenomena... who knows.
Tasche, I must apologize as i'm a subsea engineer... im not a drilling engineer so my knowledge of casing, conductor arrangements etc is limited... but subsea equipment and hardware is my speciality. All i know is that this is abosrbing a lot of people!
And how come i got tossed in with the Retards in this thread??? lol
Tasche, I must apologize as i'm a subsea engineer... im not a drilling engineer so my knowledge of casing, conductor arrangements etc is limited... but subsea equipment and hardware is my speciality. All i know is that this is abosrbing a lot of people!
And how come i got tossed in with the Retards in this thread??? lol
geteducated
Active member
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/gas_surge_shut_well_just_weeks.html
Bea said that the first explosion occurred in the mud pit room, a room where drilling mud is mixed and stored in big bins. The two engineers responding to requests for more mud in an attempt to control the runaway well were killed instantly, he said.
That explosion also blew out the wall leading to the galley, where a party was being held.
"The party is to celebrate the Transocean Deepwater Horizon going for seven years without an accident," Bea said. Present were several BP engineers or executives, who traveled to the rig for the celebration, he said.
'Here's where I broke down ...'
"The explosion hurls them against the other wall" of the galley, Bea said. "Here's where I broke down when I read it.... It describes bodies being broken, necks gashed and people bleeding, and now everybody's in the dark. People are screaming for help. People are busy helping their comrades get to two lifeboats.
"People in the lifeboats are screaming, 'We've got to get out of here!' but the lifeboats aren't full," Bea said. "The doors slam and they drop the (lifeboats), and as they do, they can see some of their colleagues jumping into the sea. They can see their outlines because the rig is burning behind them.
"Back on the drill floor, all hell has broken loose. Explosions are propagating from the mud pit room back toward them," Bea said. "At that point, one transcript that's obviously been an observer heading toward the lifeboats says the drill floor disappears in a ball of flame. And at that point, the three on-board transcripts stop."
Bea said the concluding paragraph from one of those observing the explosion summed up the depth of the failure.
"In order for a disaster of this magnitude to happen, more than one thing has to go wrong, or fail. First, a shitty cement job. The wellhead packoff/seal assembly (the equipment directly below the blowout preventer that connects the lower pipe casing to the preventer) while designed to hold the pressure, is just a backup. And finally, the ability to close the well in with the BOP somehow went away," the witness said.
Bea said that the first explosion occurred in the mud pit room, a room where drilling mud is mixed and stored in big bins. The two engineers responding to requests for more mud in an attempt to control the runaway well were killed instantly, he said.
That explosion also blew out the wall leading to the galley, where a party was being held.
"The party is to celebrate the Transocean Deepwater Horizon going for seven years without an accident," Bea said. Present were several BP engineers or executives, who traveled to the rig for the celebration, he said.
'Here's where I broke down ...'
"The explosion hurls them against the other wall" of the galley, Bea said. "Here's where I broke down when I read it.... It describes bodies being broken, necks gashed and people bleeding, and now everybody's in the dark. People are screaming for help. People are busy helping their comrades get to two lifeboats.
"People in the lifeboats are screaming, 'We've got to get out of here!' but the lifeboats aren't full," Bea said. "The doors slam and they drop the (lifeboats), and as they do, they can see some of their colleagues jumping into the sea. They can see their outlines because the rig is burning behind them.
"Back on the drill floor, all hell has broken loose. Explosions are propagating from the mud pit room back toward them," Bea said. "At that point, one transcript that's obviously been an observer heading toward the lifeboats says the drill floor disappears in a ball of flame. And at that point, the three on-board transcripts stop."
Bea said the concluding paragraph from one of those observing the explosion summed up the depth of the failure.
"In order for a disaster of this magnitude to happen, more than one thing has to go wrong, or fail. First, a shitty cement job. The wellhead packoff/seal assembly (the equipment directly below the blowout preventer that connects the lower pipe casing to the preventer) while designed to hold the pressure, is just a backup. And finally, the ability to close the well in with the BOP somehow went away," the witness said.
Dude, you are posting insanely inflammatory comments that you know are ridiculous and small minded just so you can get a rise out of people, that is classic troll behavior. You want to be a good poster? Make a point and give some proof like the others are doing, by just yelling out dumb ungrounded statements you become a troll on par with epic trolls like Sarah Palin.
geteducated
Active member
back on topic
updates,
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/gulf_of_mexico_oil_leak_volume.html
after seeing that video no shit
thats like 1 exxon for every 4days
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html
updates,
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/gulf_of_mexico_oil_leak_volume.html
after seeing that video no shit
thats like 1 exxon for every 4days
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html
Tasche
Active member
Pretty incredible pictures and video. I have heard estimates from 10-100 Mbbls/d from different sources who have analyzed the video as well as people who measured satellite images and assumed an oil thickness. I find these numbers hard to comprehend, from the video the well looks like it is unloading fluid and methane in cycles so I am inclined to believe that these estimates for oil flow are a bit overstated. I guess in the end it is really immaterial, the true cost of this disaster will be decided on its impact not the spill volume. This is truly an epic disaster and will have far reaching and lasting implications.
That being said I wanted to point out a few things. To match the energy output of a 5 Mbbl/d well you would have to build 721 wind turbines at a cost of at least 1 million a turbine, that math is extremely conservative (plus it is not always windy). Several studies have shown that it is more environmentally friendly to drive a H2 than a Prius; the batteries in a Prius require a massive amount of mining which burns a tremendous amount of fossil fuel and they don’t last very long. For the life of both vehicles you will put less CO2 into the atmosphere driving am H2. Gasoline corn substitute is created at a net energy loss; it takes more energy to grow and process the fuel than the final product provides, not to mention it starved countless people in third world countries. Hydrogen fuel cells are a good idea, but guess where hydrogen comes from? That’s right, oil and gas wells. Using electrolysis to obtain hydrogen operates at a net loss. Solar panels are expensive and only efficient in ideal conditions. Nuclear provides a tremendous amount of energy but has a public stigma and a tremendous risk of failure, however small this risk might be it cannot be negated. Geothermal and hydro power are a great source of power but are dependent on location.
The point I am trying to make is that there is no substitute for oil at the present time. It is foolish to think that we could switch power sources tomorrow and the only reason we don’t is because of oil companies, who by the way have almost nothing to do with the price of oil. I am also not saying that alternative “clean” energy is not the solution, I really hope that there is a alternative clean fuel that can substitute for oil and still allow us to live our current lifestyles. However I think it is much more likely that it is not our source of energy that is the problem it is our lifestyles, and changing your lifestyle is a lot more difficult that bitching about an unseen oil monarch that is running the environment when you are driving 40+ miles to work each day and living in a 4,000 ft^2 house.
Also from talking to a BP guy who I had lunch with yesterday (who rented a car so he didn’t have to drive around in his BP truck) they are at 9k feet on the relief well and are going to spud another relief well some time soon.
That being said I wanted to point out a few things. To match the energy output of a 5 Mbbl/d well you would have to build 721 wind turbines at a cost of at least 1 million a turbine, that math is extremely conservative (plus it is not always windy). Several studies have shown that it is more environmentally friendly to drive a H2 than a Prius; the batteries in a Prius require a massive amount of mining which burns a tremendous amount of fossil fuel and they don’t last very long. For the life of both vehicles you will put less CO2 into the atmosphere driving am H2. Gasoline corn substitute is created at a net energy loss; it takes more energy to grow and process the fuel than the final product provides, not to mention it starved countless people in third world countries. Hydrogen fuel cells are a good idea, but guess where hydrogen comes from? That’s right, oil and gas wells. Using electrolysis to obtain hydrogen operates at a net loss. Solar panels are expensive and only efficient in ideal conditions. Nuclear provides a tremendous amount of energy but has a public stigma and a tremendous risk of failure, however small this risk might be it cannot be negated. Geothermal and hydro power are a great source of power but are dependent on location.
The point I am trying to make is that there is no substitute for oil at the present time. It is foolish to think that we could switch power sources tomorrow and the only reason we don’t is because of oil companies, who by the way have almost nothing to do with the price of oil. I am also not saying that alternative “clean” energy is not the solution, I really hope that there is a alternative clean fuel that can substitute for oil and still allow us to live our current lifestyles. However I think it is much more likely that it is not our source of energy that is the problem it is our lifestyles, and changing your lifestyle is a lot more difficult that bitching about an unseen oil monarch that is running the environment when you are driving 40+ miles to work each day and living in a 4,000 ft^2 house.
Also from talking to a BP guy who I had lunch with yesterday (who rented a car so he didn’t have to drive around in his BP truck) they are at 9k feet on the relief well and are going to spud another relief well some time soon.
H8CH
Active member
I'm kinda amazed that nothing has really hit shore yet, not in the manner everyone was predicting anyway. The gulfs deepwater cyclic currents are probably doing everyone a massive favour right now. If it stays offshore, itll disperser naturally, this is already happening. Just need to hope that some storm doesn't come through and drive it all onto shore. I've seen those images for a while now. Being a mile down and in very low temps is a real saving grace here.... It naturally assists just the lighter fractions hitting the surface, and helping to emulsify heavier fractions. The gulf is cooler this year too due to el niño. Although a warming will help microbial breakdown...
feihlination
Active member
ist there some sort of estimation how long this natural breakdown takes in such a case?
Lol... if you are serious, you are such a sad individual...
Lol. Do you realize the hypocrisy of this?
uhhh, lord only knows how much I cant stand you morons who bitch about morons who sit around writing shit like troll, repost, and searchbarr...
It's a fucking forum. get ahold of yourself.
uhhh, lord only knows how much I cant stand you morons who bitch about morons who sit around writing shit like troll, repost, and searchbarr...
It's a fucking forum. get ahold of yourself.
selkirks
Active member
The bottom line in any case is that BP and TransOcean have caused the worst oil spill since Exxon-Valdez, and potentially the worst oil spill in the history of the United States. The effect on the Gulf Coast will be generational. Period. There's no debating that.
I personally think that if the investigation reveals that there was an operator error of any kind, or that proper safeguards were not in place, BP and TransOcean should have to pay for the entire cleanup effort ad any damages claims. Even if that means billions of dollars. Punishing American taxpayers for the excesses and profiteering of the oil industry even more than already occurs would be deplorable.
Bottom line ---> BP and TransOcean are responsibile and should be forced to pay the price. Frankly, the government's response shouldn't matter as much as BP's response, which has been comparatively lackluster to NOAA's.
And this does raise serious questions over offshore drilling, regardless of your political preference.
I personally think that if the investigation reveals that there was an operator error of any kind, or that proper safeguards were not in place, BP and TransOcean should have to pay for the entire cleanup effort ad any damages claims. Even if that means billions of dollars. Punishing American taxpayers for the excesses and profiteering of the oil industry even more than already occurs would be deplorable.
Bottom line ---> BP and TransOcean are responsibile and should be forced to pay the price. Frankly, the government's response shouldn't matter as much as BP's response, which has been comparatively lackluster to NOAA's.
And this does raise serious questions over offshore drilling, regardless of your political preference.
geteducated
Active member
looks to me like bp is only looking for solutions that alllow them to salvage the oil and stop the leak. rather than focusing on the latter. good to see where their priorities are.
Zump.
Active member
When I was in the weight room today, we were watching CNN and they were covering the oil spill. Apparently, the video of the oil spill suggested that there was MUCH more oil coming out of the leak than first noted. Engineers can compare the size of the pipe to the size and rate of the natural gas/oil coming out of the leak from the released video from BP to get a more accurate depiction of the leak.
CNN claimed that some sources said that estimates were way off and this oil spill is much worse than first reported. The first estimation was about 1000 barrels per day. Now, according to an article in the NY Times (that I just read), the new estimation is about 5000 barrels per day.
Buy hey, on the bright side, I guess everyone in America is an engineer now and has a perfect solution to the problem.
CNN claimed that some sources said that estimates were way off and this oil spill is much worse than first reported. The first estimation was about 1000 barrels per day. Now, according to an article in the NY Times (that I just read), the new estimation is about 5000 barrels per day.
Buy hey, on the bright side, I guess everyone in America is an engineer now and has a perfect solution to the problem.
geteducated
Active member
get the fuck out of this thread.
H8CH
Active member
Bp have already admitted 100% responsibilty and have said they will pay for everything. That takes the whole middle band American lawyers out of the game. Transocean are fucked anyway, even if it's by the virtue that they'll never drill another well for bp again in the gulf- that's them fucked. This was transoceans accident, staffed by an American staff, plus halliburton (American superpower company) who did a shit cementing job... this 'British petroleum' thing- there is no such company.... Bp is Bp.. The b has nothing to do with Britain anymore, bp America is just that. Hate away, but this is still an American accident in American waters- that's how big oil works these days. But there is something not right with all this- these operations happen thousands of times a year around the world in deepwater drilling.... Obviously something in the gulf was fucked up.... I have always said that standards over here seem lax compared to everywhere else I've worked in the world, and the gulf does have a 'cowboy' image still... In the north sea, we learnt our lesson in 1988. To me, being on the inside, it's clear what happened... But we all must wait the investigation. But remember, bp are NOT a drilling company, they are an owner operator of a lease.... And Now must pay for a drilling companies fuck up.. Just for info, average exp well cost is about 300 million $. 1 well.
geteducated
Active member
exxon never paid for their accident and actually turn a profit from it.
PimpingPanda
Member
Sure as hell wasnt shrub!! He was a badass president!! Didn't have a single attack on US soil during his term. Just ask giuliani!
Rudy Giuliani: 'We Had No Domestic Attacks Under Bush; We've Had One Under Obama'
Ohhhh, wait, I think we had a teeny weeny attack sometime in September??
Rudy Giuliani: 'We Had No Domestic Attacks Under Bush; We've Had One Under Obama'
Ohhhh, wait, I think we had a teeny weeny attack sometime in September??
Tasche
Active member
^ probably didn't work, here is the link or search 60 minutes deepwater horizon blowout, part 1
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6490348n&tag=contentBody;housing
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6490348n&tag=contentBody;housing
Did he really? wtf?