bbw.enthusiast
Member
14410564:FruitBootPro said:
prolly spoken by a guy whos gear is far ahead of his skill*
DPS skis? what are they?
- Thread starter Dan-Man
- Start date
prolly spoken by a guy whos gear is far ahead of his skill*
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14411634:bbw.enthusiast said:
Oh god please don't tell me you're not one of those 'not good enough for pivots/on3ps/v's/etc' 14 year olds
freestyler540
Active member
14411223:Dan-Man said:
1. The pic was taken during the skimo race in Marmot Basin, Jasper AB. 2 years ago. No I did not pose, in fact I was suffering quite a bit.
2. Girls are turned right off by skimo. Putting a pic like that on a dating site is a great way for girls to ignore you.
stinky_cheese
Active member
14411631:ajbski said:
i did a little bit of everything in the actual ski assembly process, from base cutting to finishing and packaging. most my time was spent doing edge assembly and ski layup though
and i moved out of utah up to washington
FruitBootPro
Active member
14411634:bbw.enthusiast said:
um i'll have you know that only an expert can rotate surface outsiders due to how damn heavy they are
BearsOnKetamine
Member
14411252:GrandThings said:
Arv 116 jj ul comes in a 194 I think
BearsOnKetamine
Member
14412101:Session said:
Elaborate?
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14416371:ajbski said:
Bruh
ajbski
Active member
14416373:Biffbarf said:
what, is that too obvious?
edit: top down shapes are designed in 2D and thats the length they usually state on the specs. the side view length is almost always shorter for every ski. not by a huge margin. but the more rocker or tip height you have the shorter the skis usually are.
**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:45:23am
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14416375:ajbski said:
Wtf do you mean length of base? Also what about k2, on3p?
BradFiAusNzCoCa
Active member
I was going to shit on this but realized it actually might be correct for certain manufacturers.
They mean a flat base before layup, if I understood correctly. Companies like ON3P, Fauna, K2, etc. probably cut their bases, fiberglass, etc. longer to account for shrinkage
14416371:ajbski said:
They mean a flat base before layup, if I understood correctly. Companies like ON3P, Fauna, K2, etc. probably cut their bases, fiberglass, etc. longer to account for shrinkage
14416376:Biffbarf said:
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14416964:ajbski said:
Dude. No.
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14416968:ajbski said:
I'm a man who understands basic math and knows that companies like on3p and k2 make true-to-length skis by pressing longer material into shape than other brands who measure their skis pre-press so they end up shorter after production.
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14416970:ajbski said:
Prove what? Do you want pics of my 189 on3p's being 189's with a tape measure? Or pics of my 187 dynastars being more like 185s? Or my 191 k2's measuring true to length at 191? Or my 188 4frnts that are closer to 185s?
ajbski
Active member
14416972:Biffbarf said:
You claim manufacturers account for the loss in length by cutting bases by that amount longer. And they do that for every size in the range.
I call bullshit.
Here’s a screenshot of jlev designing a skis top down shape. I’m almost certain they would use that exact drawing to cut out the base and give the spec for length
I could be wrong, prove it and I’ll gladly take my statements back.
BradFiAusNzCoCa
Active member
I legit don’t know what you’re trying to say now. I have laid up skis. I interned at a ski factory. I have used cassettes. They don’t hold the bases and edge together. They flat pack them. Bases and edges are either pre-formed and glued or there’s a machine aid. And cassettes are usually huge so a few cm wouldn’t change anything. Most companies usually have a few too.
What IS swapped out is the blocks/mold for different sizes and different skis. That is separate from the cassette.
Like Biff said, simple measurements of skis would prove whatever you’re trying to argue (I can’t even remember now) wrong. It is not just a base measurement for everyone.
What IS swapped out is the blocks/mold for different sizes and different skis. That is separate from the cassette.
Like Biff said, simple measurements of skis would prove whatever you’re trying to argue (I can’t even remember now) wrong. It is not just a base measurement for everyone.
14416964:ajbski said:
14416969:Biffbarf said:
ajbski
Active member
14416977:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
I have doubts barf even has a metric tape measure lol
Yea that’s ghetto indie manufacturer stuff having a flat cassette and glueing up your edges.
pros have proper fixtures/cassette that they hold the edges based in without glueing. It lets epoxy get between every tine of the edge.
I feel like indie guys that there even might be a difference in length between skis in a pair. Especially those with a 3/4 wrap edge.
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14416983:ajbski said:
You know unit conversions exist, right? But don't take my word for it. Look at blister gear reviews they have hundreds if not thousands of skis measured with a straight tape. If that doesn't convince you, maybe [tag=3025]@iggyskier[/tag] or [tag=249118]@FaunaSkis[/tag] could put out this fire of autism.
14416976:ajbski said:
ON3P accounts for loss in length due to molding by designing our skis - flat - longer than the listed length so the actual ski length is representative of the listed length (ie: a 186cm Mango 100 would be listed as a 189cm for most brands, but pulled tip to tip is accurate to the listed length).
As that is our design philosophy, it applies to every ski we design.
That said - there is variability in how brands design. The majority of brands design flat base = listed length. The resulting true ski length is then variably shorter depending on a variety of design factors (ie: full twin, flat tail, tip shape, rocker length, etc).
Both philosophies (obviously) work. But those various approaches are why - say - a 181cm Jeffrey 110 is about the same length as a 185cm JJ.
ajbski
Active member
14416988:iggyskier said:
So every length of every model has a different length offset? And the base cutting template reflects that?
edit: I guess you guys might use a CNC drag knife for that
And you guys press a pair at once?
so the guy grinding the tips measures both skis so they’re the same? using what?
**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2022 at 3:41:32pm
BradFiAusNzCoCa
Active member
Pros? You do realize there’s a reason people are turning to companies such as ON3p, moment, etc. who glue their edges by hand. You’re going to call the largest Independent manufacturer in America not a pro?
Those cassettes that hold the edges aren’t something to be looked up to.
Those cassettes that hold the edges aren’t something to be looked up to.
14416983:ajbski said:
ajbski
Active member
14417029:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
im saying guys who make 100+ pair a day pros.
i dont know on3p production numbers, or even how many presses they got, my estimate is around 50 based on the equipment ive seen in their videos.
people turn to micro brew because of their influence on sites like this, progressive shapes, eco sustainability and supporting local businesses.
if someone says they purchase indie because of build quality or attention to detail, theyre just dumb
edit: with the exception of dps really. they came out strong on the market from a material innovation view
**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2022 at 4:21:13pm
BradFiAusNzCoCa
Active member
Okay yeah then. But to discount Indy companies as not being professional is bad terminology.
You’ve obviously got a cow in the ditch, as finns like to say, so who do/did you work for?
You’ve obviously got a cow in the ditch, as finns like to say, so who do/did you work for?
14417033:ajbski said:
ajbski
Active member
14417034:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
dont get me wrong, 50 pair is great for a company that has 5-20 employees. i think im way off base here too. i think the 50 pair estimate is really high.
i worked for no manufacturer, nor would i want to, there is not much money in the niche ski industry. im an engineer. i design automation systems for many industries. as a skier, i think about ski manufacturing very very often. i kind of get off on factory videos tbh. the swiss are just on another level compared to n.a. even their niche/custom builders. im talking cnc presses where the "mold" is actually numerically controlled for every 50 mm of length on the ski. im talking chemical base treatments before pressing. even their flash removal and ski grinding is fully automated.
the quality and production rate of skis from micro brew depends on how the operators/laborers feel that day, pros got robots for everything and anything a person might make a mistake doing.
tldr;
i can enjoy a small town IPA.
but to say they can compete with stella in terms of consistency is kind of funny.
[tag=263991]@Biffbarf[/tag] you were right about on3p and possibly even k2. but thats not the way most manufacturers go about it. i also didnt appreciate the autism comment. just cause your name is gold doesnt give you the right to be a prick. its obvious that you are not intelligent enough to fight your own fight and need to rope in people to help you prove a point. i would like to know what life has done to you to make you act the way you do
BradFiAusNzCoCa
Active member
It sounds like you view automation and final output as the end objective. In that metric, the big names will win every time.
Those systems are impressive but they don’t get, what I would guess is, many people on this site going. The care, passion, and performance are what I care about. You, also, mentioned you don’t like bamboo skis in another thread and mentioned it’s like a kitchen cutting board. Bamboo is an amazing grass. It’s extremely tough, naturally hydrophobic, has amazing rebound.
I think we just have a difference of opinion for what we value. I don’t value edges that weren’t pre-formed and glued as it leads to more of a risk of edge blowout due to the edge potentially being unnaturally stressed. If you’ve ever forced edges by hand, you would understand what I mean. That’s just one example.
By Swiss, I assume you mean Stöckli, as i remember them advertising a 35 step (or maybe it was 70) quality control process. Stöckli makes quality skis. I demoed the stormrider 88. It carved hard and their racers do well. But in my mind, nothing stood out about it and I find it all rather soulless. As for niche builders, do you mean bomber or who?
I follow a lot of ski companies and I always like to keep my finger on the pulse of the ski scene. The Swiss Indy builders don’t strike me as anymore advanced than their neighbors.
I am surprised you haven’t brought up the Capita Mothership or Åre Skidfabrik.
**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2022 at 5:27:25pm
Those systems are impressive but they don’t get, what I would guess is, many people on this site going. The care, passion, and performance are what I care about. You, also, mentioned you don’t like bamboo skis in another thread and mentioned it’s like a kitchen cutting board. Bamboo is an amazing grass. It’s extremely tough, naturally hydrophobic, has amazing rebound.
I think we just have a difference of opinion for what we value. I don’t value edges that weren’t pre-formed and glued as it leads to more of a risk of edge blowout due to the edge potentially being unnaturally stressed. If you’ve ever forced edges by hand, you would understand what I mean. That’s just one example.
By Swiss, I assume you mean Stöckli, as i remember them advertising a 35 step (or maybe it was 70) quality control process. Stöckli makes quality skis. I demoed the stormrider 88. It carved hard and their racers do well. But in my mind, nothing stood out about it and I find it all rather soulless. As for niche builders, do you mean bomber or who?
I follow a lot of ski companies and I always like to keep my finger on the pulse of the ski scene. The Swiss Indy builders don’t strike me as anymore advanced than their neighbors.
I am surprised you haven’t brought up the Capita Mothership or Åre Skidfabrik.
14417052:ajbski said:
**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2022 at 5:27:25pm
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14417052:ajbski said:
Idk what to tell you fam. Guess what, I'm an engineer too. You completely ignored anything I offered as evidence so I gave you alternative sources because you were being such a stubborn spaz. I asked you how I could prove it and you quip with 'I doubt he even has a metric tape' like that even would matter. Jesus Christ there's nothing worse than a know-it-all enginerd with such an ego.
ajbski
Active member
14417057:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
that must be it. I grew up skiing European skis and that’s just what I like.
I hear what you’re saying. skiing making can be just like brewing, an art form, a craft.
I’ve made my own beer and I’ve made my own skis. I know damn well how hard either are.
I just wouldn’t want to have craft beer each time I drink
14417139:ajbski said:
You're looking at different things. QA and consistency part to part vs basically marketing (customer facing specs and customer relations).
It can't be argued that the indie ski companies are better than the big bois at those customer facing aspects (some specific Newschoolers/TGR members notwithstanding).
Of course the stated lengths from the bigger companies are going to be waaaay off the mark for tons of reasons. They aren't actual specs.
IHatePedophiles
Member
14410634:Titus69 said:
LMAO
Idk what is going on with this thread... but if you are on this site, I highly recommend trying the DPS koala 103 (and prob the 118). I got on em last year and was super impressed after thinking DPS made nothing I would be interested in. Just like a majority of brands, DPS makes alot of skis I have zero interest in - but they have recently started to make some skis (koala's) that I think a lot of people here would like.
Don't hate on a brand for doing what they want to. They hit their target market spot on - You are probably not it, sorry.
Don't hate on a brand for doing what they want to. They hit their target market spot on - You are probably not it, sorry.
ajbski
Active member
boils down to what criteria manufacture use to define "length". one could argue that on3p k2 are actually longer than stated length. considering how most do it.
to address my other statement, MOST but not ALL skis are shorter when measuring the curved length. now only if there was an industry standard to avoid confusion for the consumers, like me.
to address my other statement, MOST but not ALL skis are shorter when measuring the curved length. now only if there was an industry standard to avoid confusion for the consumers, like me.