DONT SUPPORT GRENADE GLOVES!!! read inside

hold on, WHAT!?

This is no way to handle a potential case... in fact, it'd be grounds for the judge to like him less. An American photographer's work falls under American copyright laws, regardless whether the offender is from the USA, Canada, Britain, or anywhere else. (Except maybe North Korea, but we'd never find out about the violations anyway).

"I can't afford to go to court with even a remote possibility of losing. Case closed."

I CAN'T GET OVER HOW MUCH OF A FUCKING ASSHOLE THIS GUY IS! As a photographer, this gets me more than pissed.
 
besides being a huge bunch of huge dicks grenades equipment sucks ass. lots of snowboarder friends of mine have had and demolished grenades stuff within a day of shredding
 
It's only $35 to file a small claims case in CA under $1500.

Aside from that, he could potentially lose and be liable for Grenade's expenses should they choose to counter sue for the cost.
Anyway, he doesn't have a guarantee that he would win because of how fair use is vaguely stipulated. Basically, if they can make the judge believe that it was being used in an editorial or reporting format, then it falls under fair uses and unintentional because they did not initially know. Sending an email with out saying who took the picture and what not implies that it was his image.
I dealt with a lot of this stuff at the company I used to work for in that I managed all the web content and had to deal with all the copyright and blah blah blah.
On a side note, pictures for 1 year are generally around $350 for website quality and not on the home page.
Sucks, but there really needs to be a more defined policy of what is considered fair use rather than letting the judge decide.
 
Some things you said are true, others are not.

For the 50th time, it does not matter who sent the low res image. That does not constitute any fair usage. (besides that, if the guy is in the photo, how could he have taken it, thus making it "his" image for distribution?)

The point about the miniscule chance of losing means thousands of dollars at stake over a much smaller number.

The editorial and reporting format thing also has no bearing on the copyright of the image. I guarantee you the New York Times pays for their photos that come from people other than their staff photographers. (Besides, it was for personal promotion of a company on it's own website, how could this possibly be considered journalistic?)

And your figure for pricing might be relevant to the company you used to work for, but it really doesn't apply here because every situation is specific. Pricing depends on a number of factors, determined by various photo pricing programs and techniques, the photographer, and the buyer.

Cheers.
 
There's really not one specific price that applies to all website use for photos. Prices vary drastically mostly depending on where the image is displayed, the size, how long the shot will be used for, the estimated amount of people who could be viewing it, the perceived value of the shot, and other factors. However, in this context, the photographer's final pricing would obviously be different since it was used without permission.
In my opinion I think the amount of attention throughout the photography and ski/snow community that Grenade has gotten has cost them alot more in the long run than attempting to take them to court ever could have.
 
I based that off of getty images.... not freelance costs. Most companies like getty tend to be around the same price. Also, a lot of professional freelancers have similar pricing.... Eases competition.
Getty images is not the same as stock images.

On a side note, the fact that he posted the emails also breaks copyright. So grenade could easily couter sue for disclosing private information contained in a written email.
I'm in no way condoning grenade, I'm just saying that if he went to court with out lawyer and grenade showed up with a good one, it would be a huge shit show and the photographer could end up paying.

 
Ah I see, yah I was talking about in the context of a freelancer providing an image not a stock image service. I would be surprised if a snowboard company were to pay $350 for one blog image!
 
Someone should print out handouts and stand outside there booth at SIA- see if that effects sales a little bit
 
You'd last two minutes before getting tossed out on the street by the tradeshow security. This thread, and it circulating "word of mouth" via social media, is probably a bit more effective.

He should be making "Fuck Grenade" tshirts. Imagine the graphic you could put together with their logo grenade and a fat chick...
 
Could end up hurting him....
posting the emails was a big no no.....
It all sucks..... but businesses don't have the same mindset as consumers. He could potentially lose business.
Upon the first email, he should have filed small claims. gotten this settled for the few hundred it was worth and had grenade remove the image.
Now that it is a big old mess..... both parties have broken copyright laws. but the photographers have cost a company business vs the companies that only cost the photographer a few hundred somewhat unintentionally.
 
haha not supprised, but sorry to hear. grenade is a joke there shit falls apart. i was told by an x grenade rep that there marketing plan was to make shitty product but have such a strong following that they would come back and buy more once it failed in a few weeks.
 
Now i know this is complete shit for the photographer he deserves his money for sure. Although, i could definitive see this from grenades point of view. you rescive a picture from a sponsored athlete of yours. You assume it is in his right to give you that photo, so you post it on a blog nothing big like a magazine cover, and out of random an infuriated photographer is asking for a sum of money. Now Grenade did not handle this the right way. But as far as im concerned they had every right to be confused. The photographer did exaggerate the problem at first getting angry over a confusion. but now that the point is clear to both parties, Grenade needs to step up and pay him
 
This is where they fucked up, and wher eyour logic is flawed.

No they don't have a right to be confused. They broke copyright law. How hard is that for people to understand? You can't just go around using people's shit expecting it to be ok, and then acting like you had no idea when someone says something (and justifiably so)
 
So yeah I've been pretty quiet about all this at the request of my lawyer...who in all honesty I can no longer afford and with even more honesty, never could....
Thanks so much to those of you who wrote Grenade employees on my behalf....super cool...its pretty funny to read the responses. I can't believe what a total dickhead Joseph Condorelli is to straight up lie in his replies to you. Trust me, Grenade never paid me a single penny, never offered to pay me a single penny, there were no misleading emails or emails that I withheld on purpose to make my side of things appear better. As I said I left out 2 emails that received no reply to try and shorten my blog post. There were no emails between Dustin and I like JC suggests...Dustin is my friend and I see him daily. He would have no need to email me....Dustin apologized for days for the shit that Grenade was causing me. they never attempted to get in contact with me after the fact. Not that I can blame them. Im sure I haven't made any friends at that shitty company. I personally know more than one person on this forum that can vouch for every single one of these claims. I didn't post my blog expecting to be paid. I knew I was waging war and it would be the end of contact with them. I was simply trying to warn other photographers what kind of company Grenade is and what they can expect in the real world of snow sport photography.
Long story short, Grenade fucked me, knowing good and well I wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Anything Joseph Condorelli said to you in response to your emails is a big fat lie and an obvious attempt to save face. Anyone who cares to see the original emails between Grenade and myself is more than welcome to ask me for them.
Those of you who are suggesting that this is somehow my own fault because I didn't watermark my photos clearly have no idea what it is you are talking about. Not to sound like a dick, but maybe try working in this industry for a while before you make such ridiculous statements. By your rules, if you left your bike outside your house and forgot to write your name on it, then I came along and took it home with me....is that not theft? would you be pissed off? would you feel I owed you money? would you blog about it? Scumbags steal things from regular hardworking people. I was stolen from. I wasn't even offered an apology. They didn't even own up to their mistake. To make matters worse, after Jospeh Condorelli and crew stole from me, he (and his piece of shit sales reps) called me names, belittled my hard work and basically told me to beat it. Soooooo....what would you do?
Numerous ex-grenade employees and freelance photographers and artists have written me with horror stories about their experiences with Joseph Condorelli and how they too have been bent over by Grenade.
I would love to politely discuss this experience with anyone who has questions or legitimate comments.Again, thanks to those of you who offered help and support. I posted this same message on Teton Gravity Research. There's quite the discussion going on over there as well.
ps. thanks jordan and dan for holding it down...pss. peter wojnar.....suck it
 
I owned some gloves back in the day when they were just getting started. Then I read some Danny Kass quotes and other garbage which made me think twice about buying products from them again. But, this just solidified it. Never again with I buy from Grenade. In fact, I will most likely share this story on the lift any time I ride with someone sporting their products.
 
Well I feel like an idiot for even ever buying there shit. Anyone got any gloves to sell cause i just threw my shits in the trash where they belong.
 
Well I feel like an idiot for even ever buying there shit. Anyone got any gloves to sell cause i just threw my shits in the trash where they belong.
 
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