Does anyone care about the enviornment?

That isn't the point. The point is that we are interrupting their natural habitat just to make us happy. They'll have to adapt to this new monstrosity in their territory to survive. When they finally do adapt us humans will probably be bored with the pipeline and tear it down. Thus disrupting life yet again. We shouldn't build shit and try to justify it as, "helping the animal", when they were doing just fine until we came along.
 
aspen dukes your argument makes NO sence, thats like me saying we should let every invasive species come in to our lakes and forests just because there are now more things living there. It doesnt matter if it isnt natural and kills everything else off because more= better right?

Nature didnt intend a huge warm tube to run though alaska so why should we put one there? So a soccer mom can drive a yukon for a few more years before we deplete all of the oil in the world? Who cares if we mess up all the migration patterns kill all all kinds of biodiversity? Because the rabbits and deer will overpopulate for a few years untill they eat all the food and have a huge mass die back, so yeah i compltely agree with you.....NOT
 
They didn't build the pipeline to help the animals, it just so happens that it did help the wildlife along the pipeline so that means it didn't disrupt their habitat. Maybe people should stop reproducing so we won't go into the animals habitat and then we won't need more oil. There's a fucking development going in across the street from my house. I live in FL, in the middle of a cow pasture. They want the development to look like a miniature version of CO. I'm sorry but I have never seen a boulder in FL. Not only are these houses ugly but they are putting in basements. HELLO! We have a fucking shallow aquifer - expect that bitch to flood tomorrow. Oh and that means that all the ENDANGERED tortoises will die because they are packing dirt into their homes. I'm sorry but that doesn't help the wildlife, but it is a proven fact that the pipeline in AK does help the animals that live close to it. I don't know how you can not see how it does.
 
*/ start rant*

i see the way this thread is going.

everybody on this site, im sure, cares for the enviornmnet but most of us will not change our habbits dramatically, yeah i said it, big deal. ill admit im not changing my life dramatically. i dont have the dam time for it. of course i want a clean enviornment, i dont litter, i clean up trash when i see it, i try not to use alot of water, take shorter showers, stuff like that. but everybody can do that, and i know u guys (and gals) prob. do this already, its human nature to care for the environment, some people just take it further than others.

as far as the talk about oil in alaska or canada or whatever, i agree with aspen. who do u really want to live? us or the dam animals? its expensive to take care of the environment and animals have the ability to adapt more so than we do. gas is fucking $4 a gallon and its only getting worse, we need to do more for domestic oil because its the only affordable energy right now. as ive said before, alternative energy will work but its still way to costly to use. for the time being we are stuck with oil.

*/end rant*

good thread tho.
 
Hahah I'd say something but Alkyy did all my work for me!

It's this thought process that because we have a higher intelligence than the animals that surround we can do whatever the hell we want to their habitat is so wrong. We need to realize that we SHARE this planet with the other organisms. We don't own them, we don't have the right to tell them when or where to evolve. Sometimes we just gotta let nature do her work instead of muddying it all up.
 
Don't get me wrong, im all for the environment, I pick up little and ride my bike and everything, but this climate change has been awesome here in seattle. epic winter, and we just got a foot more last weekend.
 
First off animals can survive without us as they have been for hundreds of thousands of years, we on the other hand have quite the difficulty surviving without them-I'll keep them around.

Which animals are you talking about that have a better ability to adapt then us? Last I checked homo-sapiens are the most adaptable species on this planet. We may not have the physical features to survive in every environment but we do have the technology to bypass that problem. The species that adapt to us are the ones that we have allowed to, domesticated animals, roaches, felines etc. Tell your "adaptability" story to the hundreds of species that go extinct or endangered every day.
 
My question to you is simple. Lets theorize that the pipeline remains active for the next 50-100 years. These animals aren't stupid, they know that they can easily survive by sticking close to the line. Their young are brought up with this idea also, stick to the pipeline and you won't die- you get the point. What happens when that line is shut down? Animals that have become so used to relying on the warmth of this line suddenly have a big problem. You talked about how they froze to death before the line, well now it starts all over again but on an exponential scale.

History has shown that when humans fuck with the environment and manipulate the organisms inside of it only problems come out of it.

"Hey they fish the fuck out of the pacific"

"What happens when we run out?"

"We'll just raise a bunch in a farm and set them free"

"They don't survive"

"Whoops."
 
i definetly am aware of the environment, and i think most people are aware also. Its just the fact that they dont do anything besides sit around and watch what is going on in the world. People should start actions to help fix this world problem. Even if you do one little thing, it can still help alot!
 
haha, take it easy kid, it was just a rant. I was talking about the physical ability to survive out in the wild. humans have an extremely hard time living in harsh conditions. im not saying it cant be done, and im not saying animals dont die from the weather but you do realize my point i hope.

as far as animals going extent everyday, so what? we find new ones everyday as well.
 
Well it would be the same if a tree falls. They just move to a new tree or something. The population will thin out, but that's nature. It happens all the time.
 
You do know what happens when nature thins out right? It's called species fragmentation. Most species are unable to 'thin out' due to the fact that they reproduce within large numbers of their own kind. A fantastic example is the carrier pigeon. We thought we were just 'thinning' them out but as it turns out when they got 'thin' they became extinct. You're views towards nature are incredibly ignorant of any facts. Your assumptions are dead wrong.
 
So please tell me this; how can we justify this? Should we keep letting extinctions happen until we stop discovering new species?

It's not like we find new herds of elephants everyday. Or a new secretive colony of polar bears. We find frogs, some crazy ass aquatic species that are too deep for us to fuck up and new or hybrid species of birds.
 
Dinosaurs= Meteorite

Mammoths= Mankind

Dodos= Extinction from a species introduced by none other than.....mankind!
 
Pigeon = Mankind

Extinction happens. Humans took over. Maybe you should tell people to stop reproducing, or maybe we should use Hitler's method - ovens.

 
I'm not telling anyone to stop reproducing. I'm just trying to explain that un-calculated decisions cause unnecessary extinctions. I know extinctions happen but they don't naturally happen at a rate such as what we are experiencing now. What we do isn't for the common good, it's for our own good each and every time. You are a prime example of what is wrong with our thought process these days. The assumption that we have taken over and that everything else has lost really saddens me, I hope you like a nature of cows and protected forests; I know I won't.
 
No, I know what you are saying and I agree, but I mean how exactly are we going to stop humans from developing such rediculous things? The human population is out of control, and really it's only going to get worse. Unless, of course, the Black Plague comes around again, but I hope to God nothing like that happens.

I have 20 acres with 6 horses, a steer, a bunch of dogs and a bunch of cats. Across the street from me there are over 200 homes going in on 1.5 acre lots. What's going to happen to the Gopher Tortoises? They are going to suffocate them and crush them in their underground burrows. Same with all the snakes. I haven't seen an Indigo Snake in about 10 years. Our street has tried time and time again to stop this development from going in or at least expand the lots to 2 acres. Also, since people started living on my road they were burrying arsenic in the ground because most of the land in my town were orange groves. It eventually leaked and now it's in our water (We aren't on city water.). A bunch of people on my road have found out they have cancer, including my mom. I found out just yesterday that my friend has congestive heart failure and on top of that they found a brain tumor. He also has really bad kidney stones. (He lives about 2 miles from me.)

WalMart Supercenters are going in right and left. No one can stop them, because they know that it will bring the towns economy up.

This is my land including a couple other neighbors plus the development they are putting in as we speak...

zeproperty.jpg
 
Bro its fucken retarded how many people have those sorts of opinions. I'm at uni myself, studying alot of environmental related topics as well. Its funny how at uni everyone you talk to realises the world is fucked, its common knowledge and a common concern, you come on a site like this and there's all sorts of fucktards thinking they know whats best, its fucken ridiculous, i'm not saying you need to go to uni to know about this shit or to be concerned I'm just saying that the people who have spent the most time wondering, studying and analysing data are the people who are the most qualified to know about this stuff and that speaks for itself.

 
Were these resources published by the EPA or the National Forest Service by an chance? You know they are the biggest sell outs there are. Governed by Weyerhaeuser and what not.
 
Mostly reports a life sience teacher recommended for my projects and thesis papers all from a very well funded college library
 
be careful even with that, college libraries have a lot of shit in them! remember all writers are propagandists.
 
aspen so you have the not in my back yard mentality, because shit is gunna get messed up somewhere else you dont care and take the "what ever its not effecting me" attitude. But when someone develops right next door you all of a sudden get pissed about it. Things like what is happening to your turtles and snakes happenes all the time somewhere, thing is unless your there to see the change your not going to care nealy as much. I agree with everything KRASHED has said
 
And to this little above argument about extinctions, most of them are not of the responsibility of humankind but western civilization, maybe the mammoth isn't but there's a loong list of species that have been exterminated due to western civilization, figures suggest 100 different species go extinct a day. hard to believe.
 
yeah which is why I tend to try to read both from the far left and far right then figure out whos writing from a moderate standpoint. But even then professionals still can't prove anything they just make an educated guess.
 
Dude, WE NEED OIL! The whole alternative fuel thing isn't evolving fast enough.

Did you know that it would only take up the size equivilent to 20 New York City blocks? That's NOTHING compared to the rest of the land. Did you know that there are no trees for miles? Did you also know that China is going to start drilling 60 miles off the coast of the Florida Keys for Cuba?
 
dude, its not like i dont care about the animals but this is life, lifes not fair. we need to survive on oil for this country to survive (for the time being at least, id like to see more alternative fuels just like anybody else does, but the fact is until gas is probably going to have to be 15 or 20 dollars a gallon before we see a full forced alternative energy craze).

we can all argue about this stuff but the reality is, NOTHING is going to change just yet. this is what will happen, you will read this, refute my argument, and i will come right back with another argument, and it will just continue in a circle and while all this is happening im sure some sort of animal has died for our sake of arguing over the internet on power that is produced by our lovely OIL.
 
so lets get what we can from it, we only live once too.

and haven't you seen hitchhikers guide to the galaxy? you CAN make more planets to live on
 
i agree with your second paragraph, even the professionals are having arguments going in circles just like this the only difference is they have crazy stats and shit to back each side up.
 
this thread makes me want to go buy the biggest suv i can find.
anyway, yeah i agree that we do need to change, and we ARE going to change, it will take awhile, but we will. right now there is no alternative fuel source that works well enough to be practical, we have a shit ton of idea's but none of them have been developed enough yet, and thats going to take a long time to develop. once we find a alternative way, or a number of different ways, its still going to take awhile for the world to completely change. so im really not worried about our planet at all, nature has its way of keeping balance and thats never gonna change, you can already see it with humans, we realize that we need to change to survive so we are slowly starting to change, its our instinct, just like any other animal.

and as for us hurting other animals and causing species to become extinct, well thats just how it works when you are the dominant species by a mile. we cant survive without severely hurting other species, just like bears cant survive without hurting salmon population, tigers cant survive without hurting its prey, etc.... we are on the top of the food chain over every single species of animal on earth, we are gonna fuck other species over, there is no way around it. if a pack of wolves find new place to live around a family of rabbits, those rabbits are fucked, in the same way if we find a new city to build, a new place to drill for oil, etc... the animals in that area are screwed unless they can find another place to live quickly, and if they dont its not our fault that they are on the bottom of the food chain. it sounds cruel but it really is just how nature works.

 
Are you retarted?

Do we look anything like deers? I know I don't, I mean there are some wierd people out there *cough* aspen *cough* *cough* but no one I know has antlers, fur, and hooves. We can't survive in the "frigid wind" but they are naturally built to be able to live in those conditions. If they were given the choice though, I'm sure they would all huddle up in a warm place.

For example, if you had all the necessary equipment to survive in a blizzard, food, tent, stove, fuel, warm clothes, and all, and you saw a log cabin with a fire, what would you do? Stay in your tent and survive or go in the cabin and be comfortable?

The problem with the pipeline helping the animals to get comfortable is that if they are there too long they will lose their instincts and their ability to survive like they did before the pipeline was put into place, which pretty much means they will freeze to death.

So although the pipeline might be helping the deers and others keep comfortable in the short-term, the long-term consequenses end up being negative.

Personally aspen, I think you are a tad bit ignorant, and either:

1) You work for the oil companies and you are hellbent on improving you/your companies image and reputation

2) you are actually just really ignorant and selfish.

I really hope you are the first, because you are pretty stupid otherwise.
 
nixtey9 (3:32:41 PM): bobo already killed bambi

SKI HABIT (3:33:16 PM): How is having a thousand or so square mile radius for drilling going to hurt the environment?

Did you know that the Alaska Pipeline is saving the wildlife during the winter?

nixtey9 (3:33:49 PM): hahahahaha

nixtey9 (3:34:11 PM): does she know its one of the most fragile ecosystems in the world

SKI HABIT (3:36:05 PM): thats exactly why we need to bring in millions of tons of construction equiptment to destroy their natural habitat and saturate their environment with debris, they need to be warm! god forbid nature's cycle actually takes place...

SKI HABIT (3:36:40 PM): and we get some oil to burn in the process! thats just what we need. its a win win
 
Hey man some poeple cant jump on a board and go to work, so dont make yourself off to be better. I live in a pretty rural area and i know that things are getting a lot harder for people out here. The fact is that drilling in alaska isnt that bad on the environment. But that not the start of our oil problem, the biggest problem is we dont have enough of our own refineries and the ones we have are out of date.
 
How mature.

I was kidding though. But honestly, how come the poorest of people have the most kids? Procreation needs to slow down.
 
i dont care. id rather drill in alaska so i have more oil, i dont give a fuck about the wildlife in that region. the only wildlife i care about is cows becasue i like to eat them.
 
OK, Einstein. Give us an alternative - and make it snappy. When you give me that answer I will tell you almost everything that will be done to ANWR.
 
that oil is going to be drilled, no question about it

it sucks, but its def not the worst thing that america has done to the environment
 
I'm looking forward to the destruction of the earth. I'd rather die from climate crisis than falling down the stairs when I'm 90 years old.

Humans are viral, narcissistic, pieces of shit who are destroying the earth. If we somehow, magically fixed this climate calamity right now, the next generation of humans would find something else to be afraid of, like retrovirus mutation, famine, or political disagreement.

Every generation needs a tragedy. in the 40's, it was the war. In the 50's, it was de facto segregation, and the war. Now it is war and climate crisis. Remember the SARS scare? Avian flu? Terrorism? All these drastic steps people are taking seem to be part of a sad game of charides that accentuate the crisis that is human self-worth.

These are the sordid tales of our pathetic race. Everything has an equal and opposite reaction. Without conflict there is no solution. Without sorrow there is no bliss. Without sin there is no redemption.

Accept your fate and its subsequential nature. Hold your head up high and breathe a sigh of relief, for this is who we are. This is life, as we know it.
 
i really do care actually. i even get disturbed when i see something as simple as a McDonalds cup on the side of the road. i live in a pretty damn secure and clean part of the world.. and every time i leave the Loudonville - saratoga - lake george - lake placid area, i dont feel "clean" things are simply dirtier. im not smashing other peoples towns, but im just saying it seems that things arent maintained as well..

as for global warming, i dont even know what to think at this point in time..
 
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