Death Penalty ?
- Thread starter vibecheck
- Start date
little1337
Active member
Kind of old fashioned imo, putting someone to death doesn't fix anything. I understand how people might want someone to die out of hate for what they might have done, but it still doesn't change what they did. Whats the point? It just makes everyone feel terrible and nothing is solved.
OregonDead
Active member
too expensive for everyone
dolanslebensraum
Active member
If it helps reduce murder rates then i say its ok, if it doesnt, then life in prison is bad enough. And if u get sent to supermax in colorado where you have to sit in a closet 23 hrs a day and you dont have any interaction with other humans it is WORSE THAN DEATH. Literally, those ppl in solitary confinement start hearing voices and going crazy after the first 2 months. That type of torture is simply beyond words. Those inmates try to kill themselves all the time but the prison doesnt give them the means to do it which is seriously sadistic. If someone wants to kill themselves let them kill themselves
yes where do i sign up
freestyler540
Active member
Killing is wrong, no matter who does it.
WoFIowz
Active member
As someone stated, it costs a shit ton of money to kill someone. We keep then on death row for over a decade many times. There's cheaper and more effective ways to kill someone than lethal injection. The old school ways were best. I will gladly have a civil argument about this cuz that's my stance but I don't get bent out of shape about it either
elcheapo
Active member
If someone committed a crime so heinous to get life in prison, why should the taxpayers pay to feed them etc for decades, just snuff em and get it over with. Its not like the human race is about to go extinct. Bla bla its not human etc but screw them if they can't abide by the rules jmo.
dolanslebensraum
Active member
14164020:jca said:
In some cases its very necessary. Its not like you can afford to keep 3 million 100 yr olds on ventilators for decades. You gotta be pragmatic about costs.
WoFIowz
Active member
I would also like to say that lethal injection is FAR from cruel. All these evil people being sentenced to death and then crying about how terrible it is are full of shit.
For example here is ohio's protocol:
Regardless of what option they choose, these people are so loaded with either barbiturates or benzos that they're not even on this planet, let along conscious in any sense of the word. There is no pain. I will fight someone on that.
For example, if they choose midazolam, roc and kcl, they get 500mg midazolam, 1000mg of rocuronium, and 240meq kcl. Fuck me in the ass, 1/10th that versed is enough to kill someone without them knowing. This is beyond humane- other than the fact you're killing someone, they aren't gonna feel anything.
For example here is ohio's protocol:
Regardless of what option they choose, these people are so loaded with either barbiturates or benzos that they're not even on this planet, let along conscious in any sense of the word. There is no pain. I will fight someone on that.
For example, if they choose midazolam, roc and kcl, they get 500mg midazolam, 1000mg of rocuronium, and 240meq kcl. Fuck me in the ass, 1/10th that versed is enough to kill someone without them knowing. This is beyond humane- other than the fact you're killing someone, they aren't gonna feel anything.
Obama_care
Member
yes because gang guys can run the gang from inside atleast in the tv show and its a little expensive to make the prisons and paying all the guards and stuff and you dont come out a better person
dolanslebensraum
Active member
14164051:Turd__Authority said:
I saw a documentary about how for like 10 years many states were using a drug that partially paralyzed the persons lungs so they were wide awake but they felt like they were being suffocated bc they couldnt breathe. And they would keep injecting more of this shit into their body making them gasp for air for hours and hours. That is literally a torture that is beyond fucked up.
like honestly if i could kill the people responsible for this suffocation torture and get away with it i would. Thats how fucked up this 8 hours of suffocation shit was.
if they use the cocktail you described that is acceptable, although i dont think every murder deserves the death penalty. Shit happens sometimes. Look at snoop from the wire. In real life she shot someone and they died. She got like aggravated manslaughter or something but it was basically murder. But to give her the death penalty or life without parole would be pointless. Life is cheaper in the ghetto tho. Black on black gangbanger murder usually gets less yrs than black on white murder or white on black murder or white on white murder from what i understand; correct me if im wrong.
again the only reason the death penalty is reasonable is if it deters or reduces violent crime. And i have yet to see any information that suggests it does reduce it.
14164023:r00kie said:
Meh, that's kind of bullshit. Im deeply saddened about some of my friends that have killed themselves but it's not my choice. It's shitty and hard to understand sometimes, but idk what were going through.
I expect you support universal health care with widespread access to mental health and addiction help.
Suicide sucks but it's part if life. When people don't have resources for help it's gonna happen more. Idk sure there are hotlines, but what about for the day to stuff. You're kinda on your own. Then on facebook everyone and their mom is like "if anyone feels sad tall to me" but usually like 5% are serious. If people went back in time from a suicide it'd be way higher, but that's hindsight. Most of the time it'd be like "sorry, i dont have time to deal with your problems. I have enough of my own. You're kind of a downer, bye".
Idk suicide sucks but it's pretty understandable imo and I don't blame anyone for it. I wish we invested more in our people in this country.
As far as the death penalty that's tricky. Def gonna roast a few innocent people along the way. Look at the people on death row or doing life where they eventually proved they were innocent. At the same time those people doing life isn't really that much better. Idk I guess there's no way around it. "Justice" is never going to be perfect. A lot of guilty people will get off and hopefully not a ton, but some innocent people will rot in jail.
Idk that there's really much to be gained from it. It seems increasingly archaic. We don't send posses out to round up somebodey accused of a crime and hang them in the town center anymore.
Idk, I can see arguments on boths sides. I don't feel like it's much more incentive to not kill people.
Idk that there's really much to be gained from it. It seems increasingly archaic. We don't send posses out to round up somebodey accused of a crime and hang them in the town center anymore.
Idk, I can see arguments on boths sides. I don't feel like it's much more incentive to not kill people.
ghoti_hook
Member
Dan Carlin, on his Hardcore History podcast, has an episode titled Painfotainment that looks at capital punishment through history along with our grotesque fascination with it. Quite the listen if you have the time. If you have never listened to his stuff, be ready to question your ethics. He doesn’t really give any answers to the questions he poses but he will get you thinking.
Here’s a direct link to the episode I was referring to.
https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-painfotainment/
Here’s a direct link to the episode I was referring to.
https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-painfotainment/
r00kie
Active member
14164085:theabortionator said:
Yeah, tough issue for sure. I'm not convinced that the gov would do a good enough job to make such things universal though. I thing I wish was more common was crisis management courses. Think first aid but dealing with people who are self harming or suicidal. I took one for work a couple years ago (I work with high schoolers) and was super eye opening/helpful. We talked about de-escalation tactics and how to get someone more professional help. All things that are better than the "oh shit that sucks, heres a hug" internal panic that I would have probably done before. We need more people who can handle these situations confidently.
14164092:r00kie said:
Yeah in all honesty I think thw goverment sucks hard at handling a lot of things so I agree on that. I don't think it would be worse than the current system though. There's already plenty of waste in administration etc. Idk. If people were covered more across the board I think that could cut down on some if that, and the effort of a person seeing a doctor.
"While I guess I'll just die then" is kind of a shitty sentiment in "the greatest country in the world" but it's how a lot of people here live myself included.
That's good they were offering courses for people workinf with youth to better understand mentsl health issues.
Also semi related /sort of unrelated but I like the increase in investing in our communities. One of my friends helps run an organization in Toronto that's all about food drives, teaching skills, mental health resources, concerts and art for the people etc. I def think that there should be more of an emphasis on that but things seem to be heading in the right direction.
Idk I've had 2 friends leave the country for surgeries because they couldn't afford it here. That's kind of fucked up. Also having to see go fund me's like a kid for cancer, and the guy who broke his leg at tline on here for people bit wanting to die. I don't think there's a perfect sollution but ai think universal is the way to go 100%. When a large chunk of the country won't go to a doctor even in a serious issue because nk insurance it's not good.
Hell when my roommate died in Jan he probaly would have been alright if he went to a doctor a few days before but also didnt have health insurance. I mean there's no guarantee, but it'd couldn't have gone worse. Idk super shitty watching people suffer with illnesses, broken or torn shit, and actually watching somebody die because they didn't have health insurance.
Idk. Wall if text sorry. Just woke up and chugged some coffee. Still partially asleep but with more energy.
r00kie
Active member
14164095:theabortionator said:
Health insurance/care is pretty messed up right now. As said earlier I'm not convinced a government take over is the solution. However, one thing that would help a lot is changing how health insurance is tied to employment as a "benefit." This creates a fiduciary, or a added step in the buying process that creates more cash resources. In this case it would be your employer (if they offer insurance.) Remove this and all of the sudden there isn't as much cash in the insurance market and cost has to go down. this also allows the final consumer (you, me, etc.) to shop comparatively across providers which also brings costs down. One more benefit this would bring that if you were to lose job, you do not lose your healthcare with it. Imagine how much this would have helped back in March when seemingly everyone lost work and healthcare during a health crisis.
14164003:vibecheck said:
thats only 50% chance ?
armchair_skier
Active member
Strapping someone down and giving them the injection after having them on death row for 10years+ is cruel.
Public hangings/firing squads are the way to do it. Right outside the courthouse.
Public hangings/firing squads are the way to do it. Right outside the courthouse.
ASSholebomber22
Active member
14164011:freestyler540 said:
My gf's husband strongly agrees.
WoFIowz
Active member
14164059:DolanReloaded said:
Well the only way you could paralyze someone and have them be awake would be to just give them the paralytic. That would be wildly unethical and probably the worst thing you could do but they would still be dead in a matter of minutes- you can only go so long without breathing. They wouldn't be able to gasp or use any skeletal muscles though. I think there might be some confusion between actual attempts for breathing and agonal breathing that the body does when ur dead/about to die. Agonal breaths can continue for a while but that doesn't mean the person is there and they serve no oxygenation purpose.
Monsieur_Patate
Active member
Death penalty has no place in a justice system that can't guarantee 100% accuracy, period.
Sure, we can talk hypothetically about the concept of the death penalty assuming we know for a fact that the person is guilty, then you have the whole argument about context of the crime, cost, value of human life, etc.
But in our reality, we can't guarantee that the person is guilty, so the debate stops there. Having the death penalty today means you'll kill innocent people, that's a fact, and that's just not acceptable when "Justice" is the goal.
You can't justify killing innocents (whatever the ratio is), just to satisfy a desire for vengeance (under the guise of justice) and some possible deterrent effect. (and the National Academy of Sciences has concluded that past studies have neither proven nor disproven a deterrent effect.)
So yeah, I just don't understand how you can support the death penalty as a concept.
I understand how someone would want to kill their child's murderer or something, but that's driven by emotion, and we sure as fuck can't let emotions drive our justice system, that would be fucked.
Sure, we can talk hypothetically about the concept of the death penalty assuming we know for a fact that the person is guilty, then you have the whole argument about context of the crime, cost, value of human life, etc.
But in our reality, we can't guarantee that the person is guilty, so the debate stops there. Having the death penalty today means you'll kill innocent people, that's a fact, and that's just not acceptable when "Justice" is the goal.
You can't justify killing innocents (whatever the ratio is), just to satisfy a desire for vengeance (under the guise of justice) and some possible deterrent effect. (and the National Academy of Sciences has concluded that past studies have neither proven nor disproven a deterrent effect.)
So yeah, I just don't understand how you can support the death penalty as a concept.
I understand how someone would want to kill their child's murderer or something, but that's driven by emotion, and we sure as fuck can't let emotions drive our justice system, that would be fucked.
dolanslebensraum
Active member
14164140:Turd__Authority said:
The doc i watched talked about how the death row inmates were awake for 8 hours gasping for breath but having only a tiny bit of control of their lungs so it was severe torture. Ill try to find the doc and post it but without offending u i think you should know i trust the documentary more than you.
WoFIowz
Active member
14164209:DolanReloaded said:
Please do cuz it's rediculously interesting how people have a difficult situation killing someone with so much meds so I'm curious what they did. How their IV access was. What sort of suffering it is that they define? Full disclosure I'm part sociopath and don't understand the dilemma.
This is gonna be a very interesting thread for sure.
dolanslebensraum
Active member
14164530:Turd__Authority said:
I tried to find the doc that i saw on tv like a yr ago but i cant find it for some reason.
But i swear they had doctors interviewed and shit and they said the crim justice system pretty much sidestepped all medical professional advice and came up with their own lethal injection protocol where they gave them a dose of only one medication that partially paralyzed the inmates lungs so the inmate laid on the bed strapped down feeling like they had a stuffed nose with their mouth taped up, barely able to breath. The doctors interviewed said the inmates pretty much just laid their suffocating for 8 fucking hours.
i dont care who you killed, the death of the person you killed was thousands of times less tortuous than the death the shiteating cunts in the us criminal justice system forced upon you with this suffocation lethal injection bullshit.
its simply fucked up. Torture is seriously not ok.
**This post was edited on Aug 16th 2020 at 12:22:50am