Cut defense spending

Proletariat.

Active member
Cut defense spending

By Fareed Zakaria[/b], CNN

Everyone in Washington this week is having a nightmare about a guillotine. I'm talking about the proposed cuts to the Defense Department.

If the Congressional super-commission cannot agree on ways to reduce the debt by about $1.5 trillion over 10 years, that pulls the trigger. And half those cuts automatically come from expenditures on national security.

I say, let the guillotine fall. It's about time.

The Defense Department's budget has risen now for 13 consecutive years, which is unprecedented in American history. In the last decade, overall defense spending has risen to about $700 billion, which is a 70 percent increase. If you include the spending on Iraq and Afghanistan, we now spend $250 billion more than average defense budgets during the Cold War. Now, that was a time when the Soviet, the Chinese and all East European militaries were arrayed against the United States and its allies.

Today, with no serious adversaries in the world, the United States spends more than all other countries on the planet combined. Even as a percentage of GDP, the number of countries that spend more than us is very small. Eritrea, Iraq, Saudi Arabia - so they're either war zones or oil states.

Cutting defense spending as we wind down military actions in Iraq and Afghanistan should not be difficult; it's not unprecedented.

After the Korean War, President Eisenhower cut defense spending by 27 percent. Nixon cut the budget by 29 percent after Vietnam. Even Ronald Reagan scaled back military spending in the 1980s as the Cold War was becoming less tense. And, of course, as it got over, that process was accelerated by Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton - all of it adding up to a 35 percent decrease in the defense budget by the mid '90s.

Given the enormous run-up in spending under George W. Bush, even if Obama made comparable cuts today, defense spending would remain substantially above the levels under all those presidents. After all, remember, the Simpson-Bowles plan proposes $750 billion in defense cuts over 10 years.

A recent report by Lawrence Korb, who worked at the Pentagon for Ronald Reagan, posits that a $1 trillion cut over 10 to 12 years is feasible without compromising national security.

The Defense Department is the best example of waste, fraud and abuse by far in the American government. Even when the results are pretty impressive, the costs and the cost overruns are eye-popping. Take a look at these F-35 planes. They can take off the traditional way, as well as vertical. But the Joint Strike Fighter Program that commissioned the jets to service the Air Force, Marines and Navy, has been plagued by years of design flaws and massive cost overruns. The total cost for this fighter program is something like $300 billion and counting.

Robert Gates has called the new designs for its second engine extravagant and unnecessary. That could be said of large swaths of the defense budget, "extravagant and unnecessary".

Budgetary measures aside, perhaps this is a chance for us to rebalance American foreign policy.

For too long, Congress has fattened the Defense Department, while starving foreign policy agencies. Robert Gates himself once pointed out that there are more members of military marching bands than servicemen in the Foreign Service. The result is a warped American foreign policy. It conceives of problems entirely in military terms, tries to present a ready military solution.

As he came to the close of his presidency, Dwight Eisenhower said, "Every dollar uselessly spent on military mechanisms decreases our total strength and, therefore, our security." It's time for a more balanced national security strategy. If the budget deficit forces that shift, so be it.

/static/images/flash_video_placeholder.png

 
i said it once.. ill say it again, require medicare and social security recipients collecting unemployment and assistance programs of the like to be drug tested.

guarantee that drops spending.
 
Thank you so much. I nearly have nothing to add to this. With no major economic enemies, why do we spend so much on defense? It's insane, and we should be moving away from war anyways.

Quite honestly, let's cut it to a few elite forces and a navy (for trade). That's really all we need.
 
why limit it to just drug use? think of how much more we could save also checking their driving record or if they j walk, any code violations on their home. Your plan doesn't really address people who abuse alcohol or strippers.
 
last i checked going to see strippers was legal, however heroine and cocaine use was not...

and if you want to make the point that speeding is illegal so we should background check people who have tickets as well, well, a point on your drivers license is not going to deter you physically from getting a decent job, however substance abuse will.
 
yep, lets cut all welfare spending. no more checks for single moms, workers on disability, and the unemployed. let them all starve, thats better than letting a couple freeloaders take advantage.

on the real though i do think there should be more regulations on welfare (drug testing? were it not so expensive) but getting rid of it entirely is way too radical
 
However, J walking and speeding do not require the person who is receiving welfare to spend money. He's making a point that if people are receiving federal aid, they should not have extra money to be spending on illicit drugs.

He wasn't making a point that "criminals" should not receive the welfare, just people who are already spending money on things that are not necessary to their survival.
 
Drugs shouldn't be legal, as a matter of personal liberty... but also because of the amount of money that would be saved by giving up the failed "war on drugs." Not to mentioned reduced healthcare costs from reduced drug use (look at every other country that has de-criminalized drugs, Portugal for example, and their drug use statistics); along with reduced disease spread due to access to clean needles etc.

Drug addiction should be treated as a social/health issue, not a criminal one.

Also, you are pretty obviously susceptible to propaganda about the imminent threat of terrorists etc. The US doesn't need to spend this money on "defense" and could easily save $1 trillion.
 
florida and one other state are requiring a drug test to receive welfare. this is a step in the right direction and will hopefully eliminate some of these freeloaders.
 
i believe its both a social and criminal issue. You cannot simply compare us to Portugal tho, If you want to do that, then i could compare our economy to theirs and say that since we were able to adapt monetary policy to the 2008 financial crisis, and Portugal wasn't (they really shit the bed) then we have a better economy (obviously simple comparisons just dont work). Or if you want me to continue, if you look at statistics in Southern Asian nations for crime rates such as Thailand, you will notice that they are much lower than those in the US as a whole, simply because of the deterrent effect of the punishment associated with breaking even the smallest laws. Does this mean that the US should adopt a policy to where if you j walk you receive 20 public lashings? haha i dont quite think so. (but i do believe in capital punishment).

and i never said we should spend this much money on the war, or wars, but what i do know is that you cannot fuck with the budget so long as hundreds of thousands of people rely on a steady cash flow from the military to support their families. thats fact. Do i think its excessive? possibly, i think it would be foolish for me to make that judgement seeing as i don't know where the money is allocated, (neither do you or anyone else on NS). All i do know is that it IS in fact going to help rebuild towns and communities in Afghanistan. But then again, we are in a uphill battle because the forces of the Taliban and al Qaeda will never seem to diminish so far as to consider the area safe. As to the correct course of action?? who knows, im 21 studying finance and a member of the army rotc program at school and I am no where near qualified to decide what is proper thing to do. no matter what decision they make, someone will be upset.

 
haha i dont smoke weed dude, im a NCAA athlete and in Army ROTC, ive pissed in a cup more than ive ever wanted to do.
 
idk man, ive never done any research so im not gonna say its bullshit but i gotta look into that or something...
 
Well then I can rightfully call you an ignorant fuck. Do your research before ever starting to debate anything. Ignorance is not always bliss my friend.
 
i was trying not to be an asshole... but since you just seem to be slightly immature, i'll ask you to provide evidence to what you are saying. please and thanks.
 
Yeah, thats right. Lets keep on killing people overseas with families who are just fed up with unjust US occupations. While we're at it, we cant even trust our neighbors so lets start flying drones over the us and surveiling our neighborhoods around the clock. We can trim money from the public sector by removing local police and putting the millitary in control. We'll establish a shoot first rule of law that way no one will get out of line, and then we can cut welfare and medicare because everyone will be too afraid to be jobless.

/recession.
 
first of all, take it down just a notch. second, how was i at all being ignorant? its not like i called him out saying it was bullshit. I DOUBT he has actually done a level of research that would be even good enough for a high school humanities paper. if he has, then ill ask him to post it, where is the harm in that? Third, i remember a bunch of horseshit you have posted in the past which makes me think if you were retarded then, and retarded now... i think i have a good picture of whats in your future buddy.
 
I'm sorry, but I do not know of any circumstance when I have posted a bunch of horseshit. Any examples? Since you said it's fine to ask for research, can you please show me when I posted horseshit?
 
ahahaha in what shitty school do you go to that wikipedia is actually a credible source??? i can no longer take you seriously. also.. the netherlands has 16-17million people where as the usa has 311+ million people.. just a slight population difference, kind of a an important factor in implementing such a strategy.

are you even in college or better yet, high school?
 
A lot of teachers know that Wikipedia is a good resource though not credible. That is why you double check facts with it. I know for a fact that the information on that page is accurate because I am continuously researching drug policies and there is a continuous trend across many sites, wiki just happened to be the site that does the best job of summing it all up.

More not-credible sources. I doubt you even took the time to look over the last one I posted.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100047485/portugal-drug-decriminalisation-a-resounding-success-will-britain-respond-no/

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

 
You know we spend two thirds more on defense than the next closest country (china) right? And we're spending it on things like aircraft carriers and jet fighters. when was the last time we used aircraft carriers in a major offensive? you know we already have 8? did you know there have been 265 drone attacks in the last 7 years killing over 2,000 people? Im all for defending the country but our Govt needs to get over Cold War spending and get with the times.
 
stripper use is not only of moral turpitude, it is also (GBURNZ this goes out to you) a waste of money people on welfare shouldn't have.

I covered all the bases, you lil fucks can't get shit. only charmander. shit
 
It wouldn't be too radical, private groups would step up to help those truly in need. Single mom? well guess what whore you shouldn't have had a kid you couldn't take care of, keeping him in your home could be considered child abuse, a criminal act. The state takes the kid, gives them access to school and everything else ghetto babies are supposedly deprived of. Maybe even sets them up with adoptive parents who have stable incomes and value education.

On disability because you're too fat? shit, you'll wither away into a thin person before you die of starvation in the streets. Hurt on the job? well that's what insurance is for... hurt having fun? well that's why you need personal insurance too. Unemployed? since when? should have paid more into a savings account than a cable bill...

If you care so much, then you'd donate to a cause, not support the government strong arming everyone who actually works pay checks.

 
What exactly about a larger population would make this not work?

What will it take for you to change your point of view on this topic? Would another country with more people than the US have to decriminalize drugs with (predictably) successful results for you to admit it might be better than the utterly failed war on drugs?

Scientific American good enough?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization

Also, shut up about wikipedia not being a credible source. If you want to look up simple statistics and basic facts it is perfectly credible... the fact that you can't use it as a source for your high-school paper is irrelevant.
 
Defense needs to be cut. However, we should probably take a look at government pensions while we're at it. Like someone else said, we have a large number of troops and those troops do rely on a paycheck from the defense budget. That still does not justify the ridiculous amount we spend on defense.
 
/facepalm

In my opinion the best thing we can do is make medicare and social security means tested, so that way we don't have people who are well off collecting benefits that are designed for people that need help and were dumb enough to not save for retirement.
 
more than the troops, the private contractors are bleeding the defense fund

from another report

"Mega-defense contractor Boeing has been vastly overcharging the Army for basic spare parts, forcing taxpayers to pay more than twice the “fair and reasonable” price, according to an audit conducted by the Department of Defense’s Office of Inspector General and leaked to the Project on Government Oversight. The IG looked at spare parts sales to the Corpus Christi, Texas Army Depot for two helicopters systems and found some egregious price gouging, such as charging $71 for a metal pin that should cost just 4 cents:

$644.75 for a small gear smaller than a dime that sells for $12.51: more than a 5,100 percent increase in price. $1,678.61 for another tiny part, also smaller than a dime, that could have been bought within DoD for $7.71: a 21,000 percent increase. $71.01 for a straight, thin metal pin that DoD had on hand, unused by the tens of thousands, for 4 cents: an increase of over 177,000 percent. "
 
Speeching of immature, maybe you should find substantial research. I mean holy shit. Who the hell truly uses wikipedia as a source for research? That is pathetic.
 
That's ridiculous. Absolutely fucking ridiculous.

BikeMlatt: If I had a choice, I would chose to put no money into social security and invest in my retirement on my own. I'll get $.80 for each dollar I put in. I could put the money in a fucking savings account and get more money back from that than I could social security.
 
it's as simple as:

1. we can't be approving a 700b defense budget when America has no major economic enemies and we're looking to make cuts.

2. this will not compromise our safety as much of our spending is lavish and unnecessary.

3. It's not as simple as cutting spending, you also need to cut usage.
 
Alright lets spend millions of dollars drug testing people which mainly tests for marijuana. Which is, to most politicians, the most evil drug in the entire world and the root of all evil. Almost all hard drugs are out of the system in a couple hours, 2-3 days tops. How hard would it be to stop doing coke/meth for 2-3 days in order to pass a drug test to get their nice government check.

Why don't we focus on fixing the system that allows people to have extra spending money that can go towards drugs/alcohol/other abusive and unnecessary things that people on welfare can buy.

More regulation of how people are allowed to spend their money since it is from the government so they have all the right to tell people how they have to spend it.

Source:

http://www.passdt.com/how-long-do-drugs-stay-in-the-body/

 
this is the type of argument wikipedia exists for.

god damn, he's not trying to write a doctoral thesis. He's trying to maybe prove a point to what amounts to mostly high school and college kids on an internet forum devoted to skiing.

I didn't realize nsg now required primary documents, quotes, direct statistics and university-level research. Chances are that wiki is more accurate than the vast majority of sources out there.

oh and just to piss people off

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia

(i actually wrote a 300 level history paper on sources arguing for wikipedia and cited that article. I did have a bit of a facepalm moment when i googled "Accuracy of wikipedia" and the first thing that popped up was a wiki article though.)
 
I assume by tested you mean drug tested.

Because yes every single person on welfare is either a drug user or an old person who wasn't dumb enough to save for retirement.

Why spend millions targeting a small group of people when we could use that time, effort, and money to improve it in much greater, more efficient ways?

 
This.

I actually had a few profs in 200 level courses who didn't mind the use of wikipedia if you exhausted all other options. They basically just didn't want all your information coming from it.

Wikipedia is heavily moderated now by a lot of educated people, like scholars and professors or experts in a given field when when they have some free time. Chances are a lot of the information is actually quality.
 
I hope it happens, I believe it's one of the only things that could drastically help your country.
 
Means tested means you have to meet a number of requirements (like to be on welfare, you must be unemployed, but seeking a job) in order to receive the benefit/entitlement. It would basically turn mediare into a more specific and expensive medicaid, and social security into a charity for poor old people.

But if it were up to me, I would cut medicare drastically. Most of the medicare budget is spent on the last 2 months of life. So we are paying BILLIONS so some person you've never met before can get 60 more days with their dying parent/grandparent that cannot be saved. It's a very touchy subject ethically, but I feel from a budgetary standpoint, we can't afford to prolong the inevitable. If you couldn't afford to keep a loved one alive for a few more days, you wouldn't. Why should it be any different on a national scale?

inb4 people say I have no heart
 
Alright. I completely agree with you. There should defiantly be more strict guild lines and requirements for Medicare/Welfare. And more regulation to make sure people don't play the system.
 
I agree with this. I know it's terrible to lose a loved one, but the government shouldn't be paying to keep them alive for just a month or two more if the family can't. This would be the last to get cut because the subject is so controversial though.
 
Back
Top