CSIA..how do they even keep members?

J

jeff.wanderer.7

New member
Newb

Hey.. I am actually a ski school director in western Canada. . And i had returned about ten years ago after being a race coach in park city UT USA following my retiring from professional downhill and super G racing. And after being certified in my early twenties here in my birth country Canada. . And then going to the USA and instructing there.. achieving my level 3 and attaining my examiner's certification in the usa..

i can say with absolute certainty that the administration in the CSIA has to be the most self righteous puffed up bunch of pricks i have ever run across in the industry. .

They seem to think that they are better than everyone else.. and they are arrogant and unapproachable. I would rather get teeth pulled without anesthetic than deal with anyone in "customer service " in the Montreal office. I even had one of their glorious reps curse at me when i was trying to get my renewal membership card sent to an alternate address instead of my on file home address, because i had already left for my resort a bit early to get my department staff started on pre season testing in the ski rentals and school areas.

I asked to speak to someone to update it as a one time thing.. and explained i would be happy to log online to the snowpro website and change it back afterwards myself after i received it.. and the prick actually muttered "Jesus f*#king Christ. . Hold on!" Unser his breath.. and then when i called him on it and told him i heard that.. he tried to insinuate that i must be hearing things.. oh and here's another fun one.. after returning from the USA with full PSIA credentials of level 3 plus a certification as a course conducter/examiner. . They would only grant me an EQUIVALENCY of a csia level 3 and magically had no record of my hundreds of teaching hours and money spent in my mid twenties claiming i was no longer in the system after moving to the states for a while.

And so my shop privelages are also fairly useless.. they wouldn't even allow me to Purchase a set of level 3 CSIA pins to put on my teaching vest.. OR a sweater jacket bearing their organizations emblem saying that as an "affiliate member" i wasn't allowed to buy these items.. so.. whats my advantage for being a member of their elitist pompous group? Oh yea.. so i can run a ski school and teach.. wow... they are so full of themselves ots not amusing.

I have taught and skied all over the world for thirty years.. and the only place i have ever run into such horrible attitude ,sadly, was in my own country of birth. I am even FIS certified.. and i can tell you something. . You want to talk about TOUGH courses.. try taking an FIS certification module.. or even the usa PSIA course conductor test.. these tests make the csia standards of excellence look like a joke.. and yet the Austrians and the USA course psia examiners dont hold themselves so high and mighty.. not to mention screwing over their OWN members and affiliates that have PAID to be a part of it.. its not exactly like the dues are cheap.. nor are the modules and testings..i would love to hear from more of you about this.. and see what other people's experiences were.. you can post here or add me on Facebook if you like.

Im thinkingbof rocking the boat..i mean hell.. i am a ski school director.. and i almost feel bad for my instructors when they tell me they are signing up for a course.. that doesnt bode well for the public face of the organization if the schools they support hate dealing with their lack of morality and fair structure. . Cheers.. - The Wanderer

**This thread was edited on Feb 21st 2015 at 10:54:11am
 
Interesting a highly introspective first post. I've always looked at PSIA wishy-washy. Some times the cert dude is a complete dick that thinks they are a genius or a great one who teaches you a lot and lays the cert part out for you. Fuckers haha.
 
13343071:L0gic said:
please give a tl;dr version
Click to expand...

CSIA is a bunch of stuck up pricks who complain that no one can ski bumps pretty enough.

And OP, yeah - their bureaucracy is nuts, I had to provide two pieces of ID to change my registered naMe to the proper form of my given name. And the fees are Insane.
 
topic:jeff.wanderer.7 said:
i can say with absolute certainty that the administration in the CSIA has to be the most self righteous puffed up bunch of pricks i have ever run across in the industry. .
Click to expand...

You nailed it right there. They are exactly that and more. I have up on those fucktards after this.

From my previous thread:

OK, This is not a formal complaint. This is a rage venter with some cool story bra.

This Monday, I finally got my dream fucking vacation. I got to spent 3 awesome days at Tremblant. Luck is always on my side, Monday it rained, fogged, -2, and super windy. Tuesday, it iced rained, rained and snowed with super high winds and -4. Wednesday, It was cold, but still super sunny, so I got the afternoon off to ride with my classmates.

The course starts well, but since the beginning,the instructor was constantly was on his cell phone. He started conversation half way up the gondola. I explained I hold a level 1 Freeski Canada Level 1PNCE, I ride park a lot...as an obsession and I have fun showing people tricks in the park, so I am retaking the course from the CASI. From then on, he went cold to me.

The first day was all about switch skiing. The weather sucked, but it was hard to start a vibe in shitty weather. The instructor was closed minded to suggestions and vague or too specific on explanations. Every time I gave input on experience or alternate tricks, he either ignore me or lie to me. I wanted tricks and tips for teaching, I wanted to have fun...but it was soon killed by criticism. He rarely talked to us on break times.

At the end of the first day, he packed his gear and fucked off like cops were looking for him. No feedback no nothing. My classmates were confused as fuck. One guy was an oldschooler completing his dream to teach skiing in all its forms...at 50. the Other had 15 days on skis. He is a park designer at the 2nd smallest hill in Quebec, but he is so stoked to be creative with his park. He is a level 4 snowboarder and crossed over to skiing because of pain. Both guys were super cool, without them this course would have sucked a lot more. I was often going over the day with the guys figuring out how to progress in park, figure out our problem and set out solutions.

Nighttime was sick. My roomate let me bunk up with him and I covered half. We went to the Diable whatever at the base and talked newschool, oldschool, snowboarding and park design all night. Guys seriously check it out. Help him out, they got the rails from the empire comps and they need riders there. the park is going to be sick. They need a base rider to promote the place to get better gear.http://www.montrigaud.com/ski/en/contact-us. Check it out!

So Tuesday was worst we lost all the parks. No jumps to work on. So back to switch exercises with the same fucking level 3 race and cocky attitute. We were then thrown into examination. He payed little attention and never really gave positive feedback. We were constantly explaining ourselves instead of learning why. the instructor spent 10 minutes on grabs and left the guys completely confused. The instructor told me a liu kang is opposite hand and outside opposite ski (a mute). It was lucky everyone could 360 because we barely did progression. It was grab, 180 and 360 and done. When the day was done, the instructor just took off. No feedback no nothing.

the second night was sick my roomate and I wandered around the town and set out to find impossible jibs. We discussed the poor quality of the course, and I found myself explaing the physics behing skiing, (kinetic vs potential, take off, vectors) several occasions. We enjoyed more beers later in the night.

The evaluation day was here. THANK GOOOOOD I can finally get the done with, get my level, begin by freeski program at my ski school. All this suffering, all the pain, all this driving, all this FUCKING MONEY (514.54$). The buddies go first in the evaluation. The instructor, does not care much, his phone was more preoccupying, We found ourselves freezing waiting for him to put down his phone. I offer feedback like we do after the course while we wait.

So now it my turn. I notice the instructor unclip his helmet, but I say nothing since he is a park instructor. So I was told I have a kid, he can ski, do bad 180s and wanna do 360. So I ask several questions: has he been in the park yet, have I done a run with him yet, does he know the rules, does he want me to explain the rules...on each question he never answered me. So, I skip intro and get right into it. So I get the guys to progress to 360 (in a fully complete manner) and I finish with feed back. The instructor points me out and accuses me of being dangerous because his equipment was faulty because his helmet was uncliped and I should have saw that. He accused me of being in the way and skipping the intro. After my teaching was brutally raped, he prepared the evaluation. After going on feedback, my roomate and my other classmate questionned on the fairness of my feedback. Both thanked me for understanding jump progression and progression mentality.

Now was the mindfuck, as my classmate celebrates his victory, I was failed for safety reasons. I could not believe it. I almost ripped my evaluation sheet (valuable proof). It was like I denied it. So I spent the rest of the day with my room mate just having fun turning. we met my friend and drank till dusk.

So, I am going to send a formal complaint about this instructor, this guy did not connect and I had a shitty experience. I gotta cut my vacation short and sail for 6.5 weeks. So my season is short 2 weeks. Plus I end it on a fail. This guy was a fucking jerk and a bully who doesnt care about newschool. I hope karma bites back. I am too scare to release names. I can say he coaches at sutton.

Update: I did send a complaint letter and never got an answer.
 
Hey freestyler540, despite being a bit long-winded (no worries. ..i like a good read) your story was as spot-on as you can get with respects to the kind of nonsense games they like play when it comes to procedure and decorum. It would almost seem like they really DON'T want to see people advance without making it abundantly clear that of you are an individual with your own approach, insight, and creative ability to use adaptation in your lesson program, then you will not be advancing up the ladder of certification levels without having to just become a robotic procedure regurgitating cookie cutter instructor just like everyone else, and be able to quote the exact teaching style that applies to your specific testing model.. i mean after all, adaptation and developing your own more student-friendly method of conveying an understanding of the biomechanical principles of the physics of what is actually happening between your body and the hill is a complete waste of time,right!? I mean, everyone within an age group learns and understands the same way, and in the same rate, and the methods used to teach are and should be completely unchanged from the original publications and guidelines implemented when the first standards were set decades ago, yes?

Ridiculous! I have never seen an organization so righteous and opposed to developing a growth and personalization of the effective principles in order to make it more accessible to one's varied student base. It is this unwavering notion that there is only one way to address lesson scenarios for specific skillsets that is fast making the organization itself obsolete. Now even though we all utilize our own ways of using safe guided approach to our lesson plans, you still have to be on point and unwavering from the "bible" of teaching. ..csia style, or you will not be passing. And i really hate these bullcrap little " hooks " they try to ensnare you with.. like your aforementioned helmet unbuckled trick.. or any other such bullshit underhanded way to mark off points so they can fail you and have you reach into your pocket to pay for a retest. . Oh and not to mention traveling. .. since who knows if the next one will be conducted near your home area hill.. i mean.. in that scenario, did he really expect you to condescend to them and act all parental, saying" hey Johnny.. you need to buckle that helmet! " I mean.. id be hard pressed to decide if the course conductor was just doing it for comfort.. no.. instead its a snare.. and for what ? Weeding out instructors who already demonstrated excellent ability to assemble a practical and effective lesson plan so we can split hairs on a simulated situation where a course conductor apparently doesn't know basic park rules, or is just the uber-rebel-of the-day who is flirting with having his lift ticket cut in half? ! Its a load of crap. I find it increasingly difficult to support all my staff who are preparing for a certification exam, when i just know that the elitist examiners that run the show are likely to suck all the enjoyment out of the experience so that my instructors can come back discouraged and upset, and in many cases finding it difficult to apply themselves to their own lessons back at their home mountain after being kicked in the teeth by one of the course conductors. Because at this end it has NOTHING to so with their ability to effectively demonstrate proper coaching and skills development and utilize the proper teaching models and recognize the individual needs within their groups etc.. it becomes this beaurocratic browbeating evaluation of whether or not you can adhere to standards and talk the talk as they want it to be paraphrased, and be critiqued not on your ability to guide and instruct, but to be a Parrott. So unfortunately to advance and get to where your levels of certification matter and start to work FOR you, you have to almost descend to a place where the entire reason that you got involved in the sport and teaching it have been all but completely lost sight of. I really hope the self defeating nature of this dead end become realized by some of the eggheads in the Association. . Or i see a dim future for it.. and also.. your last comment holds true as well.. dont ever let anyone know you have made such comments.. your paranoia is justified! I am certain that any such slanderous or potentially reputation damaging banter such as this little grievance we are sharing would almost certainly result in some sort of punitive if not black-balling behavior by the CSIA to make an example of how NOT to speak against the almighty organization. And as a ski school director i feel that my speaking out is a big risk in itself since i am supposed to represent all that is right and organized and efficient in this program to further the interests in the sport as well as promotion for all such organizations that drive the industry. . I just find it increasingly hard to do so when i see and read so much nonsense surrounding it all, as well as seeing the impact it has when one of my instructors fails to pass a certification when they clearly demonstrated the abilities to attain said level, but it was some underhanded nonsense, or even in some cases.."the course director just didn't like me on sight " kind of thing that was the metaphorical roadblock. Then i have to expend more effort and big pep talks to build this person back up after csia and casi has torn them down..i think they need to refocus on their purpose and take their inappropriately inflated egos out of the picture for a while. That being said.. to all of you that may be reading this.. feel free to use this forum as a sounding board.. i dont need names, but i am trying to rally opinions shared by others out there, to compile a sort of massive summary of some of the frustration felt by members of the Association, in hopes that a submission of all these experiences and misgivings may force them to see that they are in fact taking a big dump where they eat with respect to how they are really pissing off the very people they ask for ongoing support from.

and also.. if any of you out there are going for a level exam and would like some insight or have a question or concern about what you may be expected to do and what criteria may be relevant or not relevant, please feel free to message me.. i can try to take some of the "scary" out of it for you, and hopefully make it a bit less taxing on the nerves and tummy for the upcoming day. Cheers to all, and lets not lose focus on the reason we all started riding to begin with!
 
In my experience I have found that instructors for CSIA and for CASI can either be complete shit at teaching higher level athletes or they can be the bomb. I have done a training course to get a level 1 with my school and the teacher was so focused on teaching everybody how to ski like a level 1 ski instructor rather than improving our own skiing. My friend who was a ski racer was told to have forward pressure on her boots and to keep her legs straight at the apex of her turns which is the complete opposite for when you need to carve aggressively (her ski coach wondered why she was skiing like shit the next week). The other instructor was mostly focused on teaching beginner skiers but he showed them different ways to have fun while still improving your techniques and everyone had a blast and loved skiing.

For CASI It was the same there was an amazing instructor that was able to teach advanced riders and still have fun and improve their skills while the other instructor was complete shit and only taught advanced boarders how to board under the level 1 standards and all the drills he taught was super vague. He also always gave negative feedback.

What im trying to say is that it sucks that so many instructors are incapable of teaching higher level athletes who are just trying to get the cert to continue to get higher certs that year.
 
13343287:freestyler540 said:
At the end of the first day, he packed his gear and fucked off like cops were looking for him. No feedback no nothing. My classmates were confused as fuck. One guy was an oldschooler completing his dream to teach skiing in all its forms...at 50.
Click to expand...

Was one of them named Greg by any chance?
 
Posted this in the other thread

I've had a mixed bag of experiences with the CSIA heads. Some of the higher level instructors have been great and provided me with some great input on how to improve my skiing.

Others have been stuck in their old ways and too busy loving the smell of their own farts. My main critique is mostly a lack of flexibility in terms of different ski styles, there are many ways down a mountain, and if a skier can perform the skills appropriately I think there needs to be more open mindedness on how its done.

I also found that many of the older level 4s weren't willing or they didn't truly understand the biomechanical principals that they were claiming. I have a masters degree in kinesiology, and I love to get technical and I was pretty surprised with the lack of the understanding of some fundamental concepts.

I have been mostly disappointed with snow park certification. The material hasn't been updated since the mid 2000's. And most of the course conductors can barely ski park, its pretty clear that they are level 3 or 4 instructors who also have their park cert. Not to mention that the standards are very low in terms of park skills needed to pass, and it really only provides you the basics. The CFSA certifications provide more depth in terms of athlete skill development that I have been able to use with my own teaching and coaching.

I have noted some improvements with the head office since starting ski instructing. They are offering more variety in the modules (park, freeski, kids) but in the end I can't help but feel the CSIA makes very one dimensional skiers. Even when you watch the level 4 videos, you can tell they are uncomfortable with their skis leaving the ground and they suck at bumps and jumps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top