"Core" companies

M

mad_540_trix

Active member
I'd just like to say a couple of things, please read all of it (carefully) before you reply.

I purchased a pair of 175 Armada ARVs from Comor Sports in mid December last year. In November this year, one ski delammed under the binding, prompting me to take my skis into Comor in early December (my first opportunity to do so) to see what could be done about fixing/replacing the skis. After a lot of hassle (that's another story in itself), Comor finally told me that they'd ship them off to Armada to see if they could be replaced on warranty. Today, I found out that they are NOT standing behind their product and they are NOT replacing the skis. Oh, and I didn't do any rails with them if you were wondering.

Therefore, I'd also like to say: fuck all of this "support 'core' companies" bullshit. I will support these companies again, be it Line, Armada, whatever, when they can make skis that stand up to a season's use. Last year it was Line with the Invaders. I know that it was a "defective batch," but that shouldn't happen. Customers need to know that what they're buying is worth their money. Last year, the Line Invaders from that batch weren't worth shit all, certainly not the 300 or 400 hard earned dollars that they sold for. Armada's skis seem to have problems with the topsheet chipping a bit more easily than they probably should, which I could deal with, but a ski delaminating and the company saying that they will not replace the ski is an excellent example of the company not standing behind its product. In hindsight, the skis that I bought weren't even close to worth the money that I paid for them. Sure, they skied great, but I can't ski on them right now, so that point is now invalid. Not amazingly, Armada has now lost a customer, probably permanently, because they did not stand behind their skis. I'm going back to the companies that have been building skis for a longer time and know how to build skis that will stand up over time. Here I come Rossi, Head, K2, maybe even Salomon despite the foam core aspect that I don't really like.

Now here come the 12-15 year old kids bitching at me for saying this. Go ahead, flame away, I don't give a shit.
 
I hear ya loud and clear. I had some ar5s, and that was a fucking aweful experience (not to mention I got an earful of shit from an Armada rep about how I "abused my skis"). Some of the skis are good, but many are not. When you're dropping hundreds of dollars on skis, they need to last, and customer service needs to be good. And I've had neither from core companies when it came to park skis
 
I have first gen AR5's and they are bombproof, sucks that they won't replace yours. Are they 05-06's? If so they may be out of warranty, if they are this years than keep bugging them and telling them what happened since they should definitely replace 'em.
 
thats a shitty deal. i know a kid who's second year ARV's delamed on the tip and he talked to tyson hall over the phone and he said send them in and they sent him a brand new pair of 05-06 ARV's.

im not calling you a bullshitter or anything but post some pics up if you got em.
 
I ride Dynastars. Enough said.

And you know what, the day Burton makes a pair of sticks I will buy them. Why? Because they will make sick graphics (something the old ski companies have trouble with) and they will make good quality durrable skis (something the core brands have trouble with). K2 and Rossi Excluded.
 
no pics on this computer (it's my parents comp)..... it's really hard to see it in the pics anyways. I'll see if I can find some tonight or tomorrow on my computer.
 
k2s=good skis

i got 07 fujis and have been hittin the rails a lot. you can barely tell. Just a little bit of wear in the egdes under the bindings
 
dude dynastar is sick right now i beat the shit out of my ski on rails rocks concrete jumps pretty much any skis nightnare... and yet the ski prevails.. JEA DYNASTAR!
 
i bought my armadas for a lot but i dont think they were worth the money.

the edges chip like when you barley tap them (not that bad for performance but looks shitty) and about an inch of metal that splitered from the tip is now under my tip and is barley bendable. i talked to the guy at my shop and he claimed that i too was "abusing my skis".
 
they say that so they dont gotta give you a refund. they cant be stupid enough to think that people who buy these skis arent gonna ride rails
 
soory dude but that means therre out of warrant, armadas warranty is 1 year from date of purchase. After that your on your own
 
nah dude, they were bought in december 2005 before christmas, like say maybe the 20th, and i brought them in on december 6th 2006.

and to the people who have been saying it, yes, i am also looking at dynastars for my next pair of skis.
 
when companies such as armada 4frnt or ninthward advertise theyre product with skiers sliding concrete ledges the burliest rails around and big jumps then to tell a consumer they abuse theyre skis is insanely hypocritical that is what they are advertised to be used for.....and simply put in my mind is bullshit! rail damage is the same armadas 4frnt ninthward edges blow up on rails and claim to be misuse! k2 rossi salomon edges hold up???

skis can be built properly to withstand all the abuse freeskiers give them the reason the "core" companies dont is it costs more money therefore less profit for them!

there are very very few "core" companies that pay for their skis to be built the right way! in my opinon they are the ones i want to support they are williong to sacrifice profit to build good skis!
 
Get over yourself.

The fact that the point of this thread is to attack "core companies" and label them as irresponsible businesses with shady products leads me to really reevaluate my opinion of you Mike. You're boycotting an entire movement of ski companies because Armada wouldn't accept your delamination as a manufacturing defect? Get some fucking construction adhesive and a vicegrip, and your problem will be solved. This problem doesn't have to do with smaller companies, it's ALL companies, and all skis in general. My brother's mad trix mojos after a weekend on snow had an entire chunk of the topsheet (a sizeable piece of wood is still exposed), and Head told him to fuck himself too.

Don't attack small companies just because it's easy to pick on them. Every ski company has problems, every snowboard company has problems. Realize that companies (core or not) do not owe anything to you except to deliver a product that, don't you dare deny, you fucking loved when you weren't too big of a pussy to use.

I remember on several occasions where you refused to use your arvs because you were terrified of "ruining the edges" and you wanted to preserve them. Realize that skis are meant to break. They're meant to take a beating. It seems to me that you might only be pissed about the delamming because you don't even feel like getting your money's worth when you had the chance. Fuck Mike, you wouldn't even hit boxes on those things. You saved a ski for strictly powder days where there was no risk of core shot, and quite frankly I'm not that sympathetic for your case. You claim that you paid way too much for these skis, and well, I'd agree with that statement too if I only used them 20+ days in one year.

You knew you had some of the nicest pairs of skis at all of Manning, and what did you do? You skied your old Mad Trix because you didn't feel like risking a blemish or two. Why did you buy a ski that you weren't even going to use? Did you really support that company at all? Thinking every weekend that a single rock could reduce your skis to oblivion, I wouldn't be suprised if you're using this as an excuse to separate yourself from "the scene" that you seemingly refuse to believe in.
 
I'd like to throw a big ups to Liberty right now. They are the single only "core" company that has amazing customer service and stands behind their skis. They fully admitted to their first year production skis having problems. They communicate with you on a fair level and are willing to listen. Over the last years I have had amazing service from Liberty and will continue to support them. Thanks Dan.
 
if you tried to sue a company for advertising someone grinding a rail, you could probably win, but its not worth it. the not "core " companies do not fair any better on rails. if anything line adn k2 fair the best, thick edges and thick bases help but do not garauntee. you can not build a ski to with stand being slammed into metal constantly. however you can improve thier cahnces of lasting.

all this, however, is besides the point. he was NOT hitting rails, he was withing the warranty, and he kind of skis like a pussy. even if he does ski hard, skiing on snow is covered by the warranty.

im surprised they didnt warranty them mike
 
I don't mean to accuse anyone in this thread of doing this, but I think a lot of kids on NS start to complain about "delamming" when their skis have chips and cracks that they've personally inflicted on the ski. I've owned a ton of skis in my time, including Armada's, Line's and 4frnt's, and I've never had any problems aside from the odd cosmetic cut into the topsheet. Granted, I treat my skis well...I don't drop them on the snow or pavement or throw them around but I do hit rails/jumps etc. I don't know, but I see a lot of kids with twins who throw their skis around in the parking lot and stuff. Again, I'm not saying the creator of this thread has done this, but I think this may be the reason a lot of kids find their skis to be beat-up prematurely. I refuse to believe that I have simply been so lucky to never have a "lemon" ski when so many other people on NS have.
 
my buddies 05-06 Fujis delamed a couple weeks ago and hes talking to K2 right now. No, it isnt just a scratch in the topsheet (he works at a ski shop and when he went to wax them he was told by his boss that they were delaming bad) He bought them late last season and doesnt do any rails at all. So i guess we'll see if K2 is any better than armada or line.
 
well, i'm not gonna quote it all, cause it's a lot, but here it goes.

In response to Laura (fireunderwater):

Yes, I decided not to ski on the ARVs some days. Guess what? Those were the early season days when in some places we were skiing on about 5cms of snow, most of which I didn't have the skis yet for anyways, but that's beside the point. Other days that I didn't ski them were days that I spent in the park. Why? Because I KNEW that the warranty didn't cover rail damage, and I didn't wanna fuck up the warranty by doing rails in case something else (ie - a delamination) happened before the year of warranty was up. It was my plan all along to make them into my absolutely everywhere (including park) ski this month, after the warranty had expired. I skied on them every day that I went up after Christmas, with the exception of competition day, right to the end of the season. Look down, I even have a picture of me on the last day of the season, standing beside my buddy, holding my ARVs, that had been through lots of cliffs, bowls, powder booters, park jumps, hard carving on ice, straightlined and otherwise skied mogul fields, and straightlines of runs at various mountians (sun peaks, silver star, apex, etc), and damn close to everything else with me. Sure, they hadn't been slammed onto rails or boxes, but that's only because I knew that doing so would void the warranty prematurely. Oh, and I didn't save those things for skiing on powder days, although there were a lot of them... I skied those things in all sorts of conditions, including fucking bulletproof blue ice at apex that I thought only existed on the east coast. Don't believe me? Too bad for you. You can ask Franz or Andreas, my two best ski buddies, if you like, they skied a lot with me last season, including that day at apex.

Yes, I did love those skis when I used them, which, as I already discussed, was almost every fucking day. I'm gonna come out and say it, you can cram the "too big of a pussy to use" bullshit back up your ass, because you're wrong, and you've gotta know it. I could outski you in big mountain (which is probably the part of skiing that takes the most balls) Laura, and that isn't because of your injury, I could do it before you hurt yourself, too.

You mentioned the fact that I probably only spent a bit more than 20 days on them last season. Isn't this more reason for them to not delaminate? I mean, if I'd spent 100+ days skiing on them last year, then they would have been put under a lot more stress than they were put under during my season. The reason that I spent such little time skiing last year was because of a number of reasons. One of which was the difficulty that I had finding rides to the ski hill, another was school. You know what? I came out of highschool with a 4.0 GPA and a bunch of money from scholarships and bursaries. Maybe it's something you don't understand, but I had a real desire to do well in school so I could further my education at the school of my choice in the program of my choice. You know what? I got into my first choice, UBC engineering, and I'm fucking loving it.

Overall, it just sounds like you're cranky because I'm skiing and you're sitting at home because you're injured.

In response to Brian (hemlockjibber8):

Yeah, I'm (obviously) really surprised that they didn't warranty them too. I really thought that they would be covered. And hey, I wasn't skiing like a pussy last year haha (I know, I know, you were kidding, but I just wanted to clear that up).
 
Ah, more:

In response to Charlotte:

Yeah, don't worry, I know what delam is versus chips and scratches in the topsheet haha. And yes, I understand that you weren't accusing me of anything, just clearing stuff up.
 
Alright cool, by the sound of it you take pretty good care of your skis, so it sucks this has happened. Good luck with Armada...just keep annoying them til they replace them for you!
 
dude I've been beating the shit out of my Fujatives and there isnt a single crack in the edges or anything. I loooove them.
 
buying small company skis may have its advantages, but I have in the past and will continue to buy Salomon for the same reason I bring my car to bigger shops to be fixed. Because at the end of the day I know the company behind the work/product is reliable and if shit goes south I'm not left out in the cold... it's all piece of mind
 
Sooner or later these small companies are going to have to get their act together or risk going out of business...surely the ski market can't continue to support companies with inferior product/customer service. Once kids get past the "cool" factor of many "core" companies I think they will start to struggle (other than Armada) until they improve their game...the best thing for the industry is we get more "core" companies starting up and creating competition...and that kids respond to this and begin to support the legit businesses which support them.
 
bizzumple, thanks for all of the positive responses. I'm gonna keep bugging Armada about this until they do something for me.
 
i had first generation ninthwards and they delaminated in the nose and i sent them back and they sent me a pair of the second gen ones no questions asked.

that pair delamed also but thats alright because i won a pair of dynastars and i meant to get them warrantied again but i forgot and the warranty was up
 
I had some ar5s and after a few days the tails delaminated a little bit. I talked to tyson over at Armada and he said I could send in my skis and they would fix them for me. I ended up taking them down to armada headquarters since i live close by, and they did it for me that day.
 
ive had several pairs of armadas and been happy with all

and by the way

dont purchase armadas or core skis if you dont even hit rails
 
so here is what acctually happend.

You took your skis in cause the top sheet delamed but could be fixed with some apoxy.

But you problee made a big fuss. And the guy who helped you was problee like.. "oh fuck, this guy is so lame" (ps, thats whats going through shop doods heads when this shit happens)

so instead of sending your skis in, no matter what you think... they sat in the back of the shop, then they put them in a box, soon after, they called you and said armada wasnt havin it.

If youre going to buy whatever... go do it, but when you hit a rock, or land backseat and snap a tail, or blow an edge on a tree stump, or throw your shit around after eating shit on that sloppy 3 on the 15 foot kiddie killer... dont blame the player, blame yourself.

its what fiddle faddle does, listen to us, we are the guys in the shop who think youre lame.

 
Yes, the topsheet delammed. Was it reasonably fixable with epoxy? No.

I know that they sat in the back of the shop for a while, because they told me that they did (12 days). Then I told them to get their shit together and ship them, and they finally smartened up and did.

I didn't hit a rock. If I had, I wouldn't bitch. If I'd landed backseat and they'd snapped, I would have taken them in for sure, because all that happens in that case is the skis touch snow, which is covered (supposedly) by the warranty. Tree stump... same thing as the rock. The next part doesn't deserve a response, you're just being immature.

I don't give a shit what the guys in the shop think about me. I just want new skis, because Armada should stand behind their product and their warranty.
 
i'd like to say that K2 sucks from a quality standpoint. sure they're edges hold up pretty well, but that doesn't mean jack shit when they snap after 15 days of use. at least Line stands up for their product, i bet they lost so much money replacing delammed invaders last year, yet they still did it, as for Armada, they seem to be hit and miss, really depending on the rep in your area.
 
dood, then what actually happend, skis do not just 'delam' under the boot for now reason correct?

I wouldnt waste my companies money on an inexplicable problem. no what Im sayin.

Im not trying to be an asshole, maybe i can help... warrentees are lame with every company.

FYI there are very few top sheets that cant be epoxied. esspecially under the boot.

I can tunderstand how that would happen.

you only said that it did, not how.

know what im sayin?
 
that really sucks man, anyways hassle them till you get your skis and next time buy some rossi's or some lines ;]

shane
 
get gotamas, they are indes fucking structible. they can do anything, and they hold up. sure the cost is a little more, but fuck, if your into skiing you should know a rep or something and get them pro form
 
Your right, skis cannot just delam for no apperant reason. But it doesn't mean the reason was his fault. Improper curing of the resins in the ski can have a dramatic effect on the durability. Temperature, moisture in the air, time, and in the case of a ski snapping in a low impact crash the lay of the fabric (lay is the direction the weaves of the composite fabrics travel, and many composites use several layers of fabric at different angles creating different characterisics)all play factors in the curing process which is insanely important for our skis to stay together. Say a ski was exsposed to a small amount of moitsure (the air may have been exceptionally humid that day in the factory) in the curing process. You won't be able to tell after the ski's finished, but that moisture might have not allowed the glue to cure correctly, and now every time your ski flexes and twists, your braking down that glue. That's a manufacturer's defect and he should be compensated; because according to the company he bought the skis from, the skis should last for one year from the date of purchase with out a defect wether you ride 365 days or 5 that year.

A good example could be a composite rotor blade for a helicopter, it my have an allowable life time of 1 year. Whis is determined by massive testing. And even if the blade appears in perfect condition at the end of that year, you gotta toss it. If it fails before that year, do to an internal failure (delamination of layers) you better beleive that the company that produced it will get in shit. This can be closely related to this situation. Armada is producing a ski, which through testing, they determined it should last 1 year free of manufactures defects, or they would right the situation, which they haven't done in this case (and if the shop lied and said they sent them in and actually didn't, which some other dude suggested, I would beat someone).

So dude thats shitty for you, and I hope you get this situation fixed. As for me, I like skiing stuff from older established companies, they know what there doing, and often have better quality control over their products. Also they must have good service if they are big money makers. I myself, have several pairs of Rossi's (ranging from new to 3 years old), which are all holding up excellent. And I might add that I get my skis for free, which only premotes the abuse of them. Concrete ledges urban rails, which I rarely get first try and we ride open staired (would not touch those if I was payin retail prices), and stompin park all day is fair game for my skis. Sure they're beat up, but in 3 years no delams, and the only time I came close to pulling an edge out was when I was rippin through the village in Big White at night, and saw a hand rail with a snow drift beside it and I didn't realize it had skate stops on it untill I was on the jib, and It just took a chunk of base out.

PS. This just made me think of the invaders delaming. Imagine if Line for every pair of messed invaders they gave you 2 pairs back instead of making some bullshit exscuse like we had a bad batch, aka shitty quality control on their product. Sure they would initally lose a bit of cash, but the people thats skis delam'ed would no longer be pissed they had to wait 4 weeks not skiing to get a warrenty (I've had to miss 4 week and 6 weeks of 2 mountain bike seasons due to faulty shocks, and I was pissed) and the would have bosted their rep emmensily, which was badly needed after their binding situation. Hell I would have bought line if they did that and they're on the top of my list of skis not to buy. Anyways just my thought on that one.
 
ive always loved dynastar.. im on my second pair of trouble makers.. and minus the gay flame graphic, great skis and they get very over looked.
 
ya cool,

but its till doesnt happen for no reason.

Im only curious to how it did.

delaming under the boot seems suspect.

Im not calling this guy out, i was being humorus; then realized the rror of my ways. No one on here has a sense of humor.

oh well, guess well never know.
 
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