Considering 50/50 Backcountry Setup - Got Questions

[timewaster1700]

I'm a skiing addict. Skied 43 days at the resort this year before the covid-19 outbreak. Been thinking about getting into back country. Did a tour yesterday with a friend. Rented a little jig (called a daymaker) that lets you use your alpine boots and lets it pivot then you remove the jig and ski down in your normal alpine bindings. Worked pretty dang well but obviously a heaver setup.

I was thinking if I got into backcountry that I would go all out and get a setup I enjoy. I'm an advanced skier.

Been eyeing the Black Crows Nocta as a 50/50 deep day front side powder ski and backcountry ski. Was looking at putting the shift s/lab binding on it so I could use it with alpine boots on the frontside and ski it like an alpine binding on the way down in the back country. Therein lies the problem.

I love my alpine boots. They were fit really well and quite snug by an excellent boot fitter and they give me a lot of control. I hear that touring boots are usually a size larger to give you more room for the uphill. So wouldn't that mean I couldn't use my alpine and touring boots both with the shift because they would have to be mounted for one or the other? So seems like I'd be stuck using the touring boots on deep powder days. At a size larger I know for sure that would annoy me. I'm definitely used to a lot of control over my skis because of a snug fit in my boots.

How do other people handle this situation? Is it really a problem to tour in a snug boot? Maybe just get a few more punches than normal?

Thanks

**This thread was edited on Mar 27th 2020 at 1:33:58am

 

[sheddd]

You could get the skis mounted with shifts for your current alpine boots, and adjust them if necessary for new touring boots; there should be plenty of adjustment range.

 

[timewaster1700]

You could get the skis mounted with shifts for your current alpine boots, and adjust them if necessary for new touring boots; there should be plenty of adjustment range.

Thanks for the response. Didn't know there was that much adjustment range in the binding.

 

[Non_State_Actor]

Thanks for the response. Didn't know there was that much adjustment range in the binding.

I believe there is 30-32mm worth of adjustment range.

I have Noctas with shifts mounted. Very fun ski. I haven't had a chance to take them touring though. Season kind of got fucked with the virus scare and all.

 

[timewaster1700]

I believe there is 30-32mm worth of adjustment range.

I have Noctas with shifts mounted. Very fun ski. I haven't had a chance to take them touring though. Season kind of got fucked with the virus scare and all.

The nota seems like an awesome ski. Mind my asking what your height and weight is? I'm 165 lbs without gear and 5'11" and leaning towards the 185.

Think the 2000 gr weight per ski with the shift will feel to heavy for touring? I'd be curious what weight ski most people are touring on in powder.

 

[Non_State_Actor]

The nota seems like an awesome ski. Mind my asking what your height and weight is? I'm 165 lbs without gear and 5'11" and leaning towards the 185.

Think the 2000 gr weight per ski with the shift will feel to heavy for touring? I'd be curious what weight ski most people are touring on in powder.

5'7" 140 on the 185. Most people I talked to said to size up on the Nocta because it's reverse camber and also nimble for it's width.

2000g per ski + 900g per binding, it won't be the lightest set up in the world by any means. But pairing with a decently light crossover boot, Atomic Hawk Ultra ext, Technica zero g or whatever it's called, will be pretty light. It's all about finding a balance with weight and performance that matches your goals right?

 

[animator]

Touring boots aren’t “a size larger.” I don’t know who told you that but that’s bullshit. Any good boot fitter knows that they need to be sized the same. Touring boots generally run a little wider, to accommodate swelling of the feet when walking uphill. There are exceptions to that obviously (like the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD) but generally they are slightly wider. I would suggest going to a boot fitter and seeing what fits best. You could also buy a touring version of your boot if available. An example would be a Lange RX 130 and a Lange XT Free.

 

[animator]

Touring boots aren’t “a size larger.” I don’t know who told you that but that’s bullshit. Any good boot fitter knows that they need to be sized the same. Touring boots generally run a little wider, to accommodate swelling of the feet when walking uphill. There are exceptions to that obviously (like the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD) but generally they are slightly wider. I would suggest going to a boot fitter and seeing what fits best. You could also buy a touring version of your boot if available. An example would be a Lange RX 130 and a Lange XT Free.

Also if you’re concerned about a snug fit, go to a boot fitter and ask for that. There are plenty of boots that can tour that aren’t buckets. Like I said, the Hawx Ultra XTD, the Tecnica Zero G, the K2 Mindbender 120/130, and the Dalbello Lupo Factory/Carbon.

 

[Titus69]

Not sure who you talked to about boots, my touring boot is the same thing as my park boot basically but with the gadgets to tour, even lighter and a bit stiffer, both are the same BSL too so idk. My friend does have some lupos though that are a size down from his resort boots and he fucking hates the uphill, even with the removable tongue and walk mode they cramp his legs up, definetly just see a boot fitter and fine one you feel comfy with.

for bindings the shifts great, they perform downhill great and are fairly light. They do have issues though, first off I’m sure on the daymakers if you needed that big heel riser for steeper parts it was awesome, the shift only has one riser that’s slightly better than the daymakers small riser so on steep pitches you gotta be a little more balanced granted you don’t have a 3lb brick on each foot to swing around, the toes may ice up but Ive only had one experience out of 25 days so far, but the brakes are the big issue. Make sure the brake size isn’t too wide as on the uphill you can easily knock it back to ski mode and the brakes will drag, especially in deep snow and then with that underneath the brake it’ll clog up with snow so you gotta unclog it to get it back to walk mode without easily popping back to ski mode, these issues can be solved with your own piss though if needed lol. If you plan to ski inbounds I hear they get beat up if you send on them on hardpack but wouldn’t be awful if you wanna tour half the day in the side country then come back inbounds for groomers, otherwise if you have the money the CAST system looks to be way better since it’s a pivot 18 with a swappable tech toe, heavier than the shift but can charge harder in and out of bounds and you can still use whatever boot when you’re not touring, where as the shift may require toe height adjustment between touring and resort if you say have a normal Lange rx 120 for inbounds then a fancy tech toe with a grip walk sole for touring.

 

[clorox]

Not sure who you talked to about boots, my touring boot is the same thing as my park boot basically but with the gadgets to tour, even lighter and a bit stiffer, both are the same BSL too so idk. My friend does have some lupos though that are a size down from his resort boots and he fucking hates the uphill, even with the removable tongue and walk mode they cramp his legs up, definetly just see a boot fitter and fine one you feel comfy with.

for bindings the shifts great, they perform downhill great and are fairly light. They do have issues though, first off I’m sure on the daymakers if you needed that big heel riser for steeper parts it was awesome, the shift only has one riser that’s slightly better than the daymakers small riser so on steep pitches you gotta be a little more balanced granted you don’t have a 3lb brick on each foot to swing around, the toes may ice up but Ive only had one experience out of 25 days so far, but the brakes are the big issue. Make sure the brake size isn’t too wide as on the uphill you can easily knock it back to ski mode and the brakes will drag, especially in deep snow and then with that underneath the brake it’ll clog up with snow so you gotta unclog it to get it back to walk mode without easily popping back to ski mode, these issues can be solved with your own piss though if needed lol. If you plan to ski inbounds I hear they get beat up if you send on them on hardpack but wouldn’t be awful if you wanna tour half the day in the side country then come back inbounds for groomers, otherwise if you have the money the CAST system looks to be way better since it’s a pivot 18 with a swappable tech toe, heavier than the shift but can charge harder in and out of bounds and you can still use whatever boot when you’re not touring, where as the shift may require toe height adjustment between touring and resort if you say have a normal Lange rx 120 for inbounds then a fancy tech toe with a grip walk sole for touring.

I use Lupo AX's for everything. I get no pain on the uphill, even on longer tours. I did have quite a bit of shell work done on them but I have bone spurs and wide ass feet. I also use a set of ID Pro liners for resort skiing and short tours.

Have any pre release/unnecessary ejections from the shifts? I have some kingpins on park skis, but cast is starting to look really appealing for skinning up to zones and going full send on a booter with my park skis.

 

[animator]

Not sure who you talked to about boots, my touring boot is the same thing as my park boot basically but with the gadgets to tour, even lighter and a bit stiffer, both are the same BSL too so idk. My friend does have some lupos though that are a size down from his resort boots and he fucking hates the uphill, even with the removable tongue and walk mode they cramp his legs up, definetly just see a boot fitter and fine one you feel comfy with.

for bindings the shifts great, they perform downhill great and are fairly light. They do have issues though, first off I’m sure on the daymakers if you needed that big heel riser for steeper parts it was awesome, the shift only has one riser that’s slightly better than the daymakers small riser so on steep pitches you gotta be a little more balanced granted you don’t have a 3lb brick on each foot to swing around, the toes may ice up but Ive only had one experience out of 25 days so far, but the brakes are the big issue. Make sure the brake size isn’t too wide as on the uphill you can easily knock it back to ski mode and the brakes will drag, especially in deep snow and then with that underneath the brake it’ll clog up with snow so you gotta unclog it to get it back to walk mode without easily popping back to ski mode, these issues can be solved with your own piss though if needed lol. If you plan to ski inbounds I hear they get beat up if you send on them on hardpack but wouldn’t be awful if you wanna tour half the day in the side country then come back inbounds for groomers, otherwise if you have the money the CAST system looks to be way better since it’s a pivot 18 with a swappable tech toe, heavier than the shift but can charge harder in and out of bounds and you can still use whatever boot when you’re not touring, where as the shift may require toe height adjustment between touring and resort if you say have a normal Lange rx 120 for inbounds then a fancy tech toe with a grip walk sole for touring.

This is true, Shift brakes are dumb wide. I had a 100mm brake on a 122 ski with absolutely no issue.

 

[SkiingNinja]

For touring, I think it is more about range of motion, weight and downhill performance, not fit, that differs from a resort boot. The downhill performance of touring boots is getting less of a concern with new boot materials and design. Check out the SCARPA Maestrale XT. They took arguably the most famous touring boot and made it more of a hybrid. The Dynafit Hoji is another great option. They fit differently for me, but everyone is different.

I ride kingpins and even little 285g tech bindings in resort, but I’m not dropping cliffs or charging crud in them if I can avoid it. At your desired split, having the shift or the new marker crossover would be good. If you are just cruising, then I’d go lighter. You won’t miss it much on the downhill but will appreciate it on the uphill.

Over time, you get specialty skis. I have three touring setups of different widths and weights for different snow conditions, objectives, etc., and two resort skis with MNC bindings to fit my touring boots. But if you are looking for a one ski quiver and ski aggressively, I’d go around 100mm with the new marker hybrid binding that just launched.

**This post was edited on Apr 21st 2020 at 8:15:04pm

 

[Titus69]

I use Lupo AX's for everything. I get no pain on the uphill, even on longer tours. I did have quite a bit of shell work done on them but I have bone spurs and wide ass feet. I also use a set of ID Pro liners for resort skiing and short tours.

Have any pre release/unnecessary ejections from the shifts? I have some kingpins on park skis, but cast is starting to look really appealing for skinning up to zones and going full send on a booter with my park skis.

He bought em off a friend thinking a performance fit may be better, I still haven’t had an issue, I can say I’ve fallen but no release, think I had em at 10-11 and went down to 9 I think cause a few a release woulda been nice. I did get em mounted my stoner ass coworkers in our tune shop and I went to ski em on my brake when I first got em and they didn’t adjust my AFD so I had to do it with a screwdriver off a trail map sign, but had the manager do it right. I could easily ski them in the park I think, I’m sure they wouldn’t like crashing on rails but I think so far that they do well downhill

also does anyone know if the old STH mounting is any different from a new one, found a cast system for an sth 1 but would rather buy a brand new pair than a 5+ year old one.

 

[SKIIIIAN]

When your BC season ends, send your alpine boot into CAST to get toe lugs installed. Allows you to tour your alpine boot in the SHIFT. If your boot doesn't have a walk mode just loosen the buckles and keep the strap tight. This is the way to go for a 50/50 set up. if you get more serious about the BC then commit to fitting a touring boot as comfortable as your alpine. I was in a similar boat with my full tilt boot, love the fit of them and couldn't find a touring boot that was comparable. After riding in the BC more seriously I ended up biting the bullet to find a new boot that I actually enjoy. My current boot is the Dalbello AX 90, with a booster strap, and a full tilt pro liner. Its the closest fit i could get to my FT drop kicks as a touring boot.