Church and state

pmills

pmills

Active member
Now i'm not sure how many NS'ers go to church on sunday, but if you do, has there been any political talks coming from your pulpit?

reactions to breach of church and state?

 
Its bullshit that they are doing that; telling their congregation who to vote for but it seems like freedom of speech violation to me.
 
just curious, why is that bullshit? and how is it a violation of free speech to urge people to vote one way?

separation of church and state is a touchy subject in a lot of different ways I want to hear elaboration your thoughts.
 
I just dont think it shows any class to tell a group of people you have a great influence over which way to vote. It would be different if it was the leader of the congregation having a two sided discussion with members of the church about beliefs and who they thought best fit into their beliefs. Basically I think the pastor telling a congregation how to vote is classless and a deprivation to the way a democracy is supposed to work.

By freedom of speech violation, I was referring to it being illegal for the churchs to endorse a candidate like that. Just because I dont agree with them doing it doesnt mean they dont have the right to.
 
So I assume you must also be upset at any organization that endorses a particular candidate and thus encourages its members and supporters to do the same in the voting booth?

 
they should just get rid of the church, that might solve something. but of course, we couldn't do that, there'd be repercussions of mass proportions. so i guess we'll just have to keep on dealing with religious folks, which is totally okay if you just look at the church as some sort of comedy program that you might see on the cartoon network.
 
When the organization happens to be religious and bases their endorsement of a candidate on religious grounds then yes, that is cause to be upset.
 
Mostly yes, but it depends on the organization. When the organization encourages people just to vote for their candidate and have no free thought (examples of the church) then yes. I am not saying this should be illegal however it is their freedom of speech. However, something I think should be illegal is labor unions that endorse candidates when the worker has no choice of being in the union. Example, my mom is a teacher and to teach in our school district she has no choice but to join a local teachers union. This union takes dues out of every teachers paycheck and endorses candidates publicly and in letters sent out to all union members.

Sorry I got a little off topic but for the most part yes. But when it comes down to it its no ones fault but the people listening to (whatever the organization may be) and flocking like sheep with absolutely no free thought.
 
But even if you agree with what the organization says or not dont you think its the peoples right to listen to what the organization is saying and the leaders/preachers/etc.. to tell the people what they want, after all the people are there on there own free will.
 
you just have to view the government and religion for what they are, a gigantic manmade joke and then all you can really do is laugh over this situation!
 
yes, but what bothers me is that the religious leaders have a stronger, unfair influence on the group they are trying to persuade. Whereas any other leader of a secular group would need to base his/her arguments on actual facts to convince the people, the leaders of religious groups can found their arguments on beliefs and the "word of god" if they choose. I just see it as a misuse and abuse of power.
 
I totally agree with this but I still think its their leaders rights and I can think of secular left wing organizations that have great influence over people (obviously smaller demographics) by using skewed facts and propaganda.
 
I don't know if it's a violation of freedom of speech, the only problem i see is that the pastor is suppose to be the 'mouth piece of god' on Sunday morning. That power seems like it's being abused if it's being used to promote one's personal beliefs on politics.

That's not to say a pastor can't come out to say who he's voting for, but there is a time and a place for that. 10 o'clock Sunday morning isn't the time or the place.

If you're going to church to be a good christian, you shouldn't be subjugated to the stipulation that a good christian is a Republican christian.

Individually you can combine your faith and your political beliefs, but i don't think that it should be done publicly, I'm sure there are plenty of impoverished church goers that would vote for Obama purely for the tax relief they'd receive, but have their minds changed because of 'religious' reasons that wouldn't affect them at all, (ie. abortion rights) due to a churches influence.

 
Pastors can preach whatever they want. But if they start preaching politics, I see no reason why we should uphold their 'tax exempt' status. We give religion a lot of space in this country, but it cannot and should not start directly effecting our government. Hell, if it was up to me, churches wouldnt be tax exempt period.

The real idea behind separation of church and state is really bull though. We're clearly a Christian nation, just look at our past presidents.
 
I haven't gone to church in a while, But, at my church they usually talk about current issues, so I bet they've had political discussions. I'm going to try and make it next sunday.
 
I fail to see how this is a breach of church and state. Its a breach if its the other way around and church is entering the government, but its not. However i agree, if you wanna preach about a politician in church then you lose your tax exemption. But if your dumb enough to believe your pastor or whatever when he tells you god wants you to vote for someone, go right ahead.
 
My church does too, I just think the pastor needs to keep everything in general terms so he doesn't alienate people in the congregation with different opinions. I mean how would someone really feel to be told they can't be a true Christian if they vote for Obama?
 
i think that religion should influence the way that you vote, however, the church needs to remember god is not a democrat or republican. does god have principles yes, but i choose not to believe that god defines himself in terms of the earth. thus people need to vote based on what they think is best for the country... in other words your vote does not helo determin religious status. Adn can they preach who to vote for, yes. i have no problem with that, but i believe it is a bit ironic to preach about a person. it seems like they would be making mc cain or obama god, thus connecting to worldly things. thats a bit hipocrytical (Sp)
 
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