californiagrown
Active member
13471460:louie.mirags said:going to be hard to hear the lion's story
Never trust a cat.
Cecil the lion killed by American
- Thread starter corona
- Start date
Never trust a cat.
13471414:californiagrown said:
It's not one side of the story he was tried and found by a judge and jury of his peers to be guilty of this crime.
Now we want a foreign government and their own government is looking into this crime. I'll bump this in a couple weeks we'll still see if you want to stick up for this guy.
louie.mirags
Active member
13471499:nocturnal said:
I wonder if we will extradite him. I wonder because in the states, agencies only transfer the criminal if it is going to benefit them. For example, if somebody has a bench warrant for missing his court date for speeding, they will send him back to where the warrant is if it is a surrounding county. If another state they do not bother because it will not be profitable. Now if you have a felony warrant they will transfer you if you are in the next state, but not necessarily if you are across the country. The worse the crime and penalty the more of a chance you'll be transferred.
In this case who knows? Maybe they will do it to shut up the screamers or maybe they won't because who is going to pay for the travel and the agents accompanying him? We'll see
californiagrown
Active member
13471499:nocturnal said:
Your first paragraph is a blatant lie, and all it took was a 5 second Google search.
You just lied. Since you have lied in the past we should all assume you will continue to do so in every future post, right?
onenerdykid
Active member
13471499:nocturnal said:
13471514:Mr.Bishop said:
He might be referring to this:
"Mr Palmer has also run into legal woes. In 2008, court records show, he pleaded guilty to making a false statement to federal wildlife officials concerning the exact location of the slaying of a black bear during a guided hunt in Wisconsin. He was sentenced to a year probation."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/11767119/Cecil-the-lions-killer-revealed-as-American-dentist.html
13471531:onenerdykid said:
Yeah I knew that - but that has been one of the problems with this. People are assuming that because he was sentenced before that is infallible proof that he is guilty this go around.
I mean again - I do not agree with his actions - it just worries me how quickly the mob has rendered judgement which they think is based on infallible fact.
onenerdykid
Active member
13471559:Mr.Bishop said:
It for sure does not directly related to his immediate guilt, and you're totally right that people shouldn't use it as such. But if he does go to trial for this one, his credibility can be called into question since a court has previously proven that he provided dishonest information to law officials. It for sure calls into question his credibility and ability to always tell the truth in a court of law. I realize that prior convictions may or may not be admissible, but there is a good chance it could happen here, if he does go to trial.
13471570:onenerdykid said:
And absolutely if he goes to trial in a proper legal system and this is admissable and he is found guilty... then fucking fantastic the system worked.
The thing that worries me is I can see the angry mob feeling justified at their logic if this happened.
The poor guy who allegedly committed suicide because he was falsely accused/harassed by the angry internet mob... well that would just be forgotten as an 'oops... guess the internet is real life.... oh well more trolling.'
13471515:californiagrown said:
13471531:onenerdykid said:
Seriously why would I say he was tried for a crime, and then governments are looking into his crime. If you were already tried for it, nobody would be looking into it. Plus I pasted that exact paragraph in other posts, and clearly stated he was guilty of something like this before. Its not that I'm a liar the problem is you're stupid.
I know this doesn't make him directly guilty of the crime, but it definitely shows his character when it comes to hunting and that he doesn't respect laws or boundaries. Also we have people claiming he was messing with the GPS collar when they came up on the scene so I don't know how you can just sweep that under the rug as well. We won't know 100% that he did it but so far all the evidence is pointing to it.
californiagrown
Active member
13471616:nocturnal said:
No jury found him guilty. You misrepresented the facts to bolster your argument. How can anyone ever believe you again?
safety.third
Member
ignorance is not a defense. the guy poached an animal, and fuck people who poach regardless of what game they illegally take. on top of his admission, he has a court documented history of poaching. short of death threats to his family, he deserved everything he got for being the chicken shit he is. his decisions brought those consequences upon himself and everyone else they affect
californiagrown
Active member
13471634:nocturnal said:
I literally have no idea what you are trying to say here- the combination of poor grammar and maybe a misquote?
His past crimes not this one = a crime he committed in the past of similar nature, not this current case which you seem to think I'm talking about.13471686:californiagrown said:
He was found guilty and put on probation for hunting outside of his permit zone, and then lying to a federal agent about it. For some reason you keep calling me a liar for saying that but its true.
SKI.ING
Active member
13471110:Mr.Bishop said:
You're own site is a host for this cancer. Lol. You care about suicide due to internet pressure and yet you make money of people bashing each other over every little thing and promoting how everyone is a pussy if they can't take it and then you post this. That's hypocritical. Double standard if there ever was one.
californiagrown
Active member
13471700:nocturnal said:
he was never found guilty by a jury, ever. You keep retelling the lie.
ImNotARacist
Active member
According to a Huffington Post analysis, Palmer is a legitimate target for extradition because of the principle of dual criminality. In other words, what he did that was illegal in Zimbabwe is also illegal in the United States. One international law professor's advice to Palmer: "Plead guilty, and pay a huge fine, and make restitution, and a public apology."
cobra_commander
Active member
13471715:Mr.Bishop said:
Setting my hammer from stun to kill.
13471762:californiagrown said:
Oh that's your issue? That he pleaded guilty instead of taking it to trial, because he would have lost anyway? So mistaking the way somebody was found guilty of a crime, which doesn't change the point I'm trying to make. Is the equivalent of committing the crime of breaking your permit while hunting, and then lying to a federal agent about it.
You really seem to have a lot of good points left in your argument.
californiagrown
Active member
13471800:nocturnal said:
I'm just going off your past history of untruthfulness.
californiagrown
Active member
13471852:nocturnal said:
The point being you should know all the facts before rendering judgement?
13471859:californiagrown said:
He was tampering with a collar when they found him with the lion that's a fact.
His guides have also been arrested and they have a court date coming up soon because the judge found enough evidence to hold a trial. Fact
He's done this before that's a fact.
A foreign government wants to arrest him and he is being looked into being arrested by our own government that's a fact.
So far all the evidence points to him being guilty if anything pops up that shows any of these things are false please let me know.
What's your defense and a bunch of people are lying about all these things.
californiagrown
Active member
13471862:nocturnal said:
Innocent until proven guilty means nothing to you, huh?
Past crimes aren't evidence of current ones.
have you been living under a rock?13471875:Mr.Bishop said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33699346
The animal had a GPS collar fitted for a research project by UK-based Oxford University that allowed authorities to track its movements. The hunters had tried to destroy it but failed, according to the ZCTF.
The world's most-wanted dentist resurfaced Friday as officials in Zimbabwe pressed for his extradition in the slaughter of a renowned and protected lion.
13471862:nocturnal said:
13471881:nocturnal said:
See this is why sources are important. In your first statement quoted above you said "He was tampering with a collar when they found him with the lion that's a fact."
You are implying that Mr.Palmer was tampering with the collar whereas the actual statement read "The hunters had tried to destroy it but failed, according to the ZCTF." which in no way is conclusive as to who was tampering with the collar.
Your statement is being used to incite proof of guilt, but it isn't actually using examined fact. These small details would be important in a proper justice system vs. mob justice.
This mob justice shit is a real threat to our society and we all need to do our part to not spread it.
This shit is nutty:
There's an outright death threat taped to the front door of this guys' business. Even if he is guilty that is gnarly. Think about his family or the other employees and how scared they must be. This is in America too where there is guns everywhere and mass shootings are a completely regular thing.
Imagine being someone in this situation who is completely innocent?
Imagine being accidentally mis-accused yourself and having a firestorm like this happen?
Isn't justice by trial part of the American constitution?
There's an outright death threat taped to the front door of this guys' business. Even if he is guilty that is gnarly. Think about his family or the other employees and how scared they must be. This is in America too where there is guns everywhere and mass shootings are a completely regular thing.
Imagine being someone in this situation who is completely innocent?
Imagine being accidentally mis-accused yourself and having a firestorm like this happen?
Isn't justice by trial part of the American constitution?
13471924:nocturnal said:
That's the thing - it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. As a matter of fact, looking at the evidence I would probably agree... You are likely right.
However the fact that the mob is rendering judgement and punishment vs. the justice system is what is wrong here.
S.J.W
Active member
Bishop does bring up some great points with regards to mob mentality. I don't agree with the killing of the lion or any trophy hunting for that matter. But when a story like this gains traction people tend to become dehumanized. They feel less guilt and shame for their actions because everyone else is doing it. Dnews has covered this rather nicely. I encourage everyone to watch this video. Hopefully this dentist does go to jail and I hope he does become a deterent for other wannabe trophy hunters. But at the end of the day, pretty much 95% of us will do whatever we see is the next current trend because we feel a need to fit in.
13471963:Mr.Bishop said:
But that's my point I think he's guilty but that being said there's nothing I should or could do. I agree that this mob mentality and people trying to ruin this guy's life is ridiculous, leave it to the courts. But that being said he's a rich doctor and nothing's going to happen to him. Fine morw probation, again not saying that I should do anything about it just pointing it out. I think it's a little ridiculous to pretend this guy's innocent and didn't do anything.
Bombogenesis
Active member
13471918:Mr.Bishop said:
I think you know that the "new thing" is justice by media, not by trial. Once the mainstream media has you picked out you're fucked.
ImNotARacist
Active member
13471918:Mr.Bishop said:This shit is nutty:
There's an outright death threat taped to the front door of this guys' business. Even if he is guilty that is gnarly. Think about his family or the other employees and how scared they must be. This is in America too where there is guns everywhere and mass shootings are a completely regular thing.
Imagine being someone in this situation who is completely innocent?
Imagine being accidentally mis-accused yourself and having a firestorm like this happen?
Isn't justice by trial part of the American constitution?
Who. fucking. cares. Fuck Dr. Palmer.
Did you know hes been accused of sexual harrasment as well. (http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/walter-palmer-minnesota-dentist-hunter-killed-cecil-the-lion-dead-shot-zimbabwe-illegal-arrested-photos-video-cubs-theo-bronchorst-trymore-ndlovu/)
He is a piece of shit and deserves to be covered in mites while sitting in a Zimbabwe jail. Fuck his teeth as well.
Dear Dr. Palmer, You Trump Boys, Ted Nugent, and Other "Trophy" Hunters
"As Jimmy Kimmel so eloquently stated "can't you get an erection?" You need to kill innocent, endangered animals to feel big, manly? Or womanly, as is also the case. You need stuffed heads on your walls to feel big, to feel good about yourselves? F#%k you. You couldn't kill these innocents without guides, bait, and illegal acts. Oh, you are soooo tough. Not.
Some might ask why so many are upset beyond belief over the killing of magnificent Cecil. Here is why. For too long the "haves" in society do what they want, to whomever they want, when they want. With no fear of punishment.
They kill black people. Slap on the wrist, most often. They kill animals. Usually that goes unnoticed. Whatever they desire is a free for all. They want sacred Apache burial grounds? Pay the asking price and it's all yours.
Cecil, and his murder, for it is that, brought all of our collective frustration at "to the highest bidder" to a head. We who think, who feel and who revere all life have had e-f%#cking nuff.
I don't know how this will end. My hope is that the dentist gets extradited to Zimbabwe and stands trial. It is also that more cops than Tensing be found guilty of murder. That our government stop selling sacred lands to be soiled with oil lust.
We, the people, have rights which have been forgotten because someone paid for that to be so. Cecil had those rights as well.
Whether it be Bernie Sanders or someone else calling for it, a revolution is in order. No more black lives lost. No more endangered animals lost. No more of "us" lost to these seemingly above the law poachers of humanity. This s#%t has got to stop right now.
So, my hope is the dentist with the incredibly white teeth is extradited to Zimbabwe. He needs to stand trial there. Tensing needs to "enjoy" prison life for awhile. Many others need to do the same. And we folks who care, who advocate, who fight, who work have got to double down and not let up. We have got to. Or they will strip us bare, no matter our color, they will kill every bloody animal they can to mount in their palaces and they will rule. No more us, no more animals, no more life. Except theirs.
I apologize for the rant. I am tired of crying over so many people, animals, and us all."
-anonymous
californiagrown
Active member
13473005:ThaLorax said:
0.00000000001%.
I wonder if anybody would give a shit if this lions name happened to be "face eater"?
I'm guessing not, this shit probably wouldnt have made the news because it wouldnt evoke an emotional response from the public. The media knows killing "cecil the lion" would get a response like this guy just killed bambi or newborn puppies. its amazing how us americans can be played by the media like this and we dont realize it. people are fucking retarded. and they're proving it by how they react, this guys life is now legitimately at risk for doing something that probably hundreds of thousands of people do, but he happened to do it to a lion with a cute name. The media used the publics retarded emotional response to turn it into a big story, and now half the country has joined this mob mentality in thinking he should die. for something they probably didnt give a shit about before.
I'm guessing not, this shit probably wouldnt have made the news because it wouldnt evoke an emotional response from the public. The media knows killing "cecil the lion" would get a response like this guy just killed bambi or newborn puppies. its amazing how us americans can be played by the media like this and we dont realize it. people are fucking retarded. and they're proving it by how they react, this guys life is now legitimately at risk for doing something that probably hundreds of thousands of people do, but he happened to do it to a lion with a cute name. The media used the publics retarded emotional response to turn it into a big story, and now half the country has joined this mob mentality in thinking he should die. for something they probably didnt give a shit about before.
ImNotARacist
Active member
13473095:.Hugo. said:
i thought it was funny
Everything Doug has said in this thread is right and it's unfortunately that a sleazeball like this Palmer guy has to be the big test case in what's wrong with social media justice as it's developed, but here we are.
This is mass madness. It's also sadly predictable and will continue to be the case because we as imperfectly evolved apes are simply wired to participate in this kind of tribal lynch-mob behaviour.
It's fundamentally the same exact thing as a witch hunt, except it's gone global.
This is mass madness. It's also sadly predictable and will continue to be the case because we as imperfectly evolved apes are simply wired to participate in this kind of tribal lynch-mob behaviour.
It's fundamentally the same exact thing as a witch hunt, except it's gone global.
onenerdykid
Active member
13473046:XtRemE11 said:
I mean yeah if you change the scenario into a lion that was ravaging the countryside and eating people's faces, the outcome would naturally be different. You would be completely changing the story into one that doesn't deserve sympathy, so obviously the public response would not be the same.
Part of the reason why people are rightly to be upset is that this lion was not a problem lion/face eater, he was relatively "tame" for a wild lion and as such was a tourist attraction. Adding fuel to the fire is that he was lured off protected land and shot by a hunter who was been previously proven guilty of lying to wildlife officials about where he shot a trophy animal. I'm not in any way justifying the mob mentality but people are allowed to be upset by this story. There is a middle ground that can be reasonably achieved.
So yeah, if you completely change the story around it will naturally get a different response. And don't go saying all people are just retarded for criticizing the hunter and being upset that Cecil was killed. When you do that, you come off just as retarded as the people you are reacting against. You want to make a difference in the whole ordeal? Try being level headed about it.
ImNotARacist
Active member
13471781:cobra_commander said:
Your logic is shIt.
ImNotARacist
Active member
YOU GUYS NEED A FUCKING HISTORY LESSON.
The killing of Cecil the lion, a famous emblem of Zimbabwe's wildlife, by an American dentist has sparked an online firestorm, with countless people across the world outraged by what seems a senseless, barbaric act.
News of the death of Cecil — who was lured from a protected national park, wounded with a crossbow and later hunted down — led to angry criticism of big-game hunting; calls for the prosecution of William Palmer, Cecil's now-apologetic killer; and the shuttering of Palmer's dental practice in Minneapolis, at least for the time being.
But the near-universal uproar belies a much older reality. For most of history, humans have obsessed over lions, measured themselves against the big cats and — more often than not — sought to butcher them.
There is perhaps no animal on Earth that has generated more veneration and fear over the centuries. In myriad ancient cultures, lions were demigods and guardian spirits, symbols of nobility and righteousness.
From the Mediterranean to East Asia, statues of lions graced the gates of cities, the entrances of temples and the abodes of kings. The Bible is littered with passages gesturing to the awesome power of these "bold" and "roaring" creatures. A lion's body forms the foundation of ancient Egypt's most famous single structure.
To this day, the image of the lion bears real symbolism for dozens of countries. It's an icon for both the Cameroonian soccer team and Iranian dissidents in exile. It's the national emblem of the Indian republic, the dominant ensign in the flag of Sri Lanka and the logo of Thailand's most popular brand of beer.
But that never has stopped humans from killing lions. According to National Geographic, "2,000 years ago more than a million lions roamed the Earth." Now that figure may be as low as 20,000, with the majority left in Africa and a smaller number in India. The decline is largely the result of the animals' loss of habitat, encroached upon by a booming human population.
The lion hunt is one of the world's oldest tropes: Generations of political rulers drew legitimacy from images depicting their mastery or triumph over lions, among nature's most fearsome beasts. Friezes of lion hunts adorned the palaces of Assyrian kings, while the hunt was a constant artistic theme in courts in India and lands farther west.
But, according to National Geographic's calculations, the real slaughter of lions occurred only in the past two centuries. In 1800, estimates of the overall population were about what they had been for most of history — 1 million or so. But the decades thereafter saw a pronounced decline. By the 1940s, there were only 450,000, and a shocking 50,000 a half-century later.
This is the consequence of poaching as well as the effect of growing human populations and the parallel shrinking of the lions' habitat. In the 19th century, pith-helmeted British colonials embarked on the first great African safaris, slaughtering tens of thousands of the subjugated continent's exotic wildlife, including countless lions.
Palmer, the villain of the moment, was following a well-trodden path, one taken by numerous European royals and American grandees — including, famously, former president Theodore Roosevelt.
And he is far from alone. As a post in Wonkblog shows, trophy-hunting American tourists kill hundreds of lions each year, mostly legally. Palmer's hunt may be uniquely awful because Cecil the lion belonged to a protected habitat, but there's nothing unique about this act of killing.
The killing of Cecil the lion, a famous emblem of Zimbabwe's wildlife, by an American dentist has sparked an online firestorm, with countless people across the world outraged by what seems a senseless, barbaric act.
News of the death of Cecil — who was lured from a protected national park, wounded with a crossbow and later hunted down — led to angry criticism of big-game hunting; calls for the prosecution of William Palmer, Cecil's now-apologetic killer; and the shuttering of Palmer's dental practice in Minneapolis, at least for the time being.
But the near-universal uproar belies a much older reality. For most of history, humans have obsessed over lions, measured themselves against the big cats and — more often than not — sought to butcher them.
There is perhaps no animal on Earth that has generated more veneration and fear over the centuries. In myriad ancient cultures, lions were demigods and guardian spirits, symbols of nobility and righteousness.
From the Mediterranean to East Asia, statues of lions graced the gates of cities, the entrances of temples and the abodes of kings. The Bible is littered with passages gesturing to the awesome power of these "bold" and "roaring" creatures. A lion's body forms the foundation of ancient Egypt's most famous single structure.
To this day, the image of the lion bears real symbolism for dozens of countries. It's an icon for both the Cameroonian soccer team and Iranian dissidents in exile. It's the national emblem of the Indian republic, the dominant ensign in the flag of Sri Lanka and the logo of Thailand's most popular brand of beer.
But that never has stopped humans from killing lions. According to National Geographic, "2,000 years ago more than a million lions roamed the Earth." Now that figure may be as low as 20,000, with the majority left in Africa and a smaller number in India. The decline is largely the result of the animals' loss of habitat, encroached upon by a booming human population.
The lion hunt is one of the world's oldest tropes: Generations of political rulers drew legitimacy from images depicting their mastery or triumph over lions, among nature's most fearsome beasts. Friezes of lion hunts adorned the palaces of Assyrian kings, while the hunt was a constant artistic theme in courts in India and lands farther west.
But, according to National Geographic's calculations, the real slaughter of lions occurred only in the past two centuries. In 1800, estimates of the overall population were about what they had been for most of history — 1 million or so. But the decades thereafter saw a pronounced decline. By the 1940s, there were only 450,000, and a shocking 50,000 a half-century later.
This is the consequence of poaching as well as the effect of growing human populations and the parallel shrinking of the lions' habitat. In the 19th century, pith-helmeted British colonials embarked on the first great African safaris, slaughtering tens of thousands of the subjugated continent's exotic wildlife, including countless lions.
Palmer, the villain of the moment, was following a well-trodden path, one taken by numerous European royals and American grandees — including, famously, former president Theodore Roosevelt.
And he is far from alone. As a post in Wonkblog shows, trophy-hunting American tourists kill hundreds of lions each year, mostly legally. Palmer's hunt may be uniquely awful because Cecil the lion belonged to a protected habitat, but there's nothing unique about this act of killing.