Cecil the lion killed by American

[californiagrown]

Oh no, a cow or pig won't be raised in hell like conditions and then killed. What a tragedy. Think of the pigs! They must suffer so we can have bacon! Demand for meat will never stop, humans love meat.

And I sound pretentious? What was I meant to reply to your comment with? I've been vegan longer than I've been on this site and this is the first time it's ever come up. Because I know people get all angry when you mention not eating meat.

And if you read up the thread, I have no problem with other people eating meat. I do have a problem however with trophy huntong

Do you get just as angry about trophy hunting as you do throwing away some of their meat filled dinner?

The fact remsins, your lifestyle is conducive to the extinction of certain animals.

 

[S.J.W]

Do you get just as angry about trophy hunting as you do throwing away some of their meat filled dinner?

The fact remsins, your lifestyle is conducive to the extinction of certain animals.

And the exact case could be made about people who eat fish. In just 55 years numbers of APEX predators have dropped by 90%. What about Trophy hunting, where only 30,000 lions live in the wild. Or the numerious numbers of animals that are now extinct because of hunting. Don't try and get on a high ground over the extiction of animals when you're supporting trophy hunting. Which does so much more harm than not eating meat.

But what animals have gone extinct because of vegans?

 

[El_Barto.]

And the exact case could be made about people who eat fish. In just 55 years numbers of APEX predators have dropped by 90%. What about Trophy hunting, where only 30,000 lions live in the wild. Or the numerious numbers of animals that are now extinct because of hunting. Don't try and get on a high ground over the extiction of animals when you're supporting trophy hunting. Which does so much more harm than not eating meat.

But what animals have gone extinct because of vegans?

ugh...you really are a less smart verion of Chicken

 

[S.J.W]

ugh...you really are a less smart verion of Chicken

So stating facts is not being smart?

 

[El_Barto.]

So stating facts is not being smart?

oh no, dont get me wrong...i like facts. If you knew who Chicken was you'd understand what im saying.

Im sure californiagrown gets me.

Go on not eating meat and dudes can go on shooting animals, lopping off their heads and putting them on their walls. Dont like it? Donate to animal sanctuaries. I dont like animals being treated poorly so i buy only organic meat at whole foods. I dont think im better than people who buy their meat at Costco

You seem like you think youre better than those people though.

 

[californiagrown]

And the exact case could be made about people who eat fish. In just 55 years numbers of APEX predators have dropped by 90%. What about Trophy hunting, where only 30,000 lions live in the wild. Or the numerious numbers of animals that are now extinct because of hunting. Don't try and get on a high ground over the extiction of animals when you're supporting trophy hunting. Which does so much more harm than not eating meat.

But what animals have gone extinct because of vegans?

Thank god there aren't enough vegans to actually make an impact otherwise the populations of farm animals would precipitously drop off.

I'm not on moral high ground because I think trophy hunting is cool, I'm on equal ground as you because you are vegan.

 

[S.J.W]

oh no, dont get me wrong...i like facts. If you knew who Chicken was you'd understand what im saying.

Im sure californiagrown gets me.

Go on not eating meat and dudes can go on shooting animals, lopping off their heads and putting them on their walls. Dont like it? Donate to animal sanctuaries. I dont like animals being treated poorly so i buy only organic meat at whole foods. I dont think im better than people who buy their meat at Costco

You seem like you think youre better than those people though.

I don't think I'm better than you because I don't eat meat. And I'm curious to how you've perceieved what I've said to coming to that conclusion. I literally said I have no problem with other people eating meat. And this is the first time I've ever brought up veganism into a thread.

Thank god there aren't enough vegans to actually make an impact otherwise the populations of farm animals would precipitously drop off.

I'm not on moral high ground because I think trophy hunting is cool, I'm on equal ground as you because you are vegan.

It just appeared like you were trying to take the moral high ground from bringing up that vegans cause less demand, which could lead to the extiction of pigs and cows. But I guess I was wrong with that so yeah. I like you california, we do have similiar ideas so we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[El_Barto.]

"Apex predators refer to the food chain. Not some piece of shit killing an animal for fun or for sport. If you kill an animal and eat it. Good for you. If you kill an animal and don't eat it, then you're a piece of shit"

I kill animals for fun...i eat em too. Am i a piece of shit? Cause you say people who kill for fun are pieces of shit.

Pretty much saying someone is a piece of shit, in the way youre doing it, inplies you think you are better than them.

You also said in another thread you dont like idiots and fat people. What the fuck makes you so great?

 

[S.J.W]

"Apex predators refer to the food chain. Not some piece of shit killing an animal for fun or for sport. If you kill an animal and eat it. Good for you. If you kill an animal and don't eat it, then you're a piece of shit"

I kill animals for fun...i eat em too. Am i a piece of shit? Cause you say people who kill for fun are pieces of shit.

Pretty much saying someone is a piece of shit, in the way youre doing it, inplies you think you are better than them.

You also said in another thread you dont like idiots and fat people. What the fuck makes you so great?

Ahh I thought you meant I was better than you because I'm vegan. Gotcha. I was wrong with that.

And I don't think I'm better than you. I don't measure how good someone is by their morals and actions. It's not linear and you can't compare to different people and see who's better. Because it's all opinion. I just don't see how you can put an animal in pain and kill it for "fun". What gives you the right to kill an animal for fun?

 

[californiagrown]

"Apex predators refer to the food chain. Not some piece of shit killing an animal for fun or for sport. If you kill an animal and eat it. Good for you. If you kill an animal and don't eat it, then you're a piece of shit"

I kill animals for fun...i eat em too. Am i a piece of shit? Cause you say people who kill for fun are pieces of shit.

Pretty much saying someone is a piece of shit, in the way youre doing it, inplies you think you are better than them.

You also said in another thread you dont like idiots and fat people. What the fuck makes you so great?

I hate fat people too. They are viscerally repulsive to me.

I wouldn't care, but fat people constantly influence my daily life nagativley- from off the rack clothes, to higher taxes, to bus seat butt spillage.

Fat people are ruining this world.

 

[SterlingArcher]

people kill animals.. animals kill people.. both kill for a large variety of reasons however fucked up or logical it might be.

circle of life

 

[californiagrown]

Ahh I thought you meant I was better than you because I'm vegan. Gotcha. I was wrong with that.

And I don't think I'm better than you. I don't measure how good someone is by their morals and actions. It's not linear and you can't compare to different people and see who's better. Because it's all opinion. I just don't see how you can put an animal in pain and kill it for "fun". What gives you the right to kill an animal for fun?

I'm 'merica we have " the right to life, liberty , and the pursuit of happiness". I like the intrinsically, prehistoric thrill of the hunt. It makes folks happy. They have the right to pursue that happiness untill that pursuit infringes upon another human.

Animals are things, not people. Treat them well, but understand their role in this world. Don't over inflate it.

 

[S.J.W]

I'm 'merica we have " the right to life, liberty , and the pursuit of happiness". I like the intrinsically, prehistoric thrill of the hunt. It makes folks happy. They have the right to pursue that happiness untill that pursuit infringes upon another human.

Animals are things, not people. Treat them well, but understand their role in this world. Don't over inflate it.

The first part of your response was nice. I can see how people enjoy the hunt part. But why kill it? There's ways to hunt and not kill the animal.

But I don't agree with the second part. Animals have feelings, they're extremely inteligent and much more than things. Just look at the Orcas at sea world. How much pain they're in. The killing of their trainers. A pig is as smart as a 1 year old baby. And yet you would never consider a baby less than a regular human.

 

[californiagrown]

The first part of your response was nice. I can see how people enjoy the hunt part. But why kill it? There's ways to hunt and not kill the animal.

But I don't agree with the second part. Animals have feelings, they're extremely inteligent and much more than things. Just look at the Orcas at sea world. How much pain they're in. The killing of their trainers. A pig is as smart as a 1 year old baby. And yet you would never consider a baby less than a regular human.

Sex is fun too, but cumming is the best part. Don't blueball the hunter.

Animals are not humans. They are animals. You shouldn't treat animals badly, but at the end of the day they are there for our use. A baby is a small human. An orca is an orca. Not that tough to see the difference.

 

[S.J.W]

Sex is fun too, but cumming is the best part. Don't blueball the hunter.

Animals are not humans. They are animals. You shouldn't treat animals badly, but at the end of the day they are there for our use. A baby is a small human. An orca is an orca. Not that tough to see the difference.

"you shouldn't treat animals badly", but sure let's kill animals for fun.

 

[californiagrown]

"you shouldn't treat animals badly", but sure let's kill animals for fun.

A swift death isn't treating them cruelly or badly. A perfect kill shot is the goal of every hunter. No one hunts to wound. One second the dumb animal is chewing grass, the next its in deer heaven.

No hunter wants the animal to suffer. But shit does happen sometimes.

 

[Scaredwhiteboy]

Spend 5 minutes in a cage with a lion and then tell me how terrible it is to kill one.

 

[onenerdykid]

Spend 5 minutes in a cage with a lion and then tell me how terrible it is to kill one.

Killing for survival and killing for sport/fun are completely different due to the motives behind each action. End result could be the same (dead lion) but because our motives are different, the action would be judged differently.

 

[californiagrown]

Killing for survival and killing for sport/fun are completely different due to the motives behind each action. End result could be the same (dead lion) but because our motives are different, the action would be judged differently.

Thing is, people only care because lions look furry and cuddly. Disney has turned wild, vicious animals into furry friends.

 

[onenerdykid]

Thing is, people only care because lions look furry and cuddly. Disney has turned wild, vicious animals into furry friends.

I don't think a lion is cute and fuzzy, yet I know the difference between killing to stay alive and killing because you enjoy it. That people want to conserve animal populations that have been decimated by humans is not solely thanks to Disney, although I will grant they could play a role in it.

 

[californiagrown]

I don't think a lion is cute and fuzzy, yet I know the difference between killing to stay alive and killing because you enjoy it. That people want to conserve animal populations that have been decimated by humans is not solely thanks to Disney, although I will grant they could play a role in it.

Are you a steak eater? Cause you're killing cows for your own enjoyment. You don't need meat, but you enjoy it.

House cats

 

[onenerdykid]

Are you a steak eater? Cause you're killing cows for your own enjoyment. You don't need meat, but you enjoy it.

House cats

I don't eat steak nor house cats, or any meat generally. If the scenario ever presented itself where I would need to eat meat in order to stay alive, I wouldn't hesitate to do it. But seeing as how there are a lot of healthy and cruelty free options in my society, I take advantage of them whenever possible. Do I expect other people to do so? No.

 

[californiagrown]

I don't eat steak nor house cats, or any meat generally. If the scenario ever presented itself where I would need to eat meat in order to stay alive, I wouldn't hesitate to do it. But seeing as how there are a lot of healthy and cruelty free options in my society, I take advantage of them whenever possible. Do I expect other people to do so? No.

So you are vegan?

 

[kook.lyfe]

So I have a confession to make... My familys dentist worked under Dr Palmers practice. That being said when our dentist wasn't available I'd be sent to Dr Palmer... He's been in my mouth before! But what I can't seem to figure out though is am I guilty by association or am I a certified badass for surviving the lion killer?

 

[onenerdykid]

So you are vegan?

No, I am a vegetarian who does not believe that humans and non-human animals are of equal moral worth. I try to act in a way that I think the most rational being on earth would, and as such I try to avoid killing sentient beings unless it is needed. We cannot live without using the earth, so we need to, but I think we should do it in the most reasonable way possible within our means.

 

[roddy116]

No, I am a vegetarian who does not believe that humans and non-human animals are of equal moral worth. I try to act in a way that I think the most rational being on earth would, and as such I try to avoid killing sentient beings unless it is needed. We cannot live without using the earth, so we need to, but I think we should do it in the most reasonable way possible within our means.

i bet you had a lot of lunch money stolen from you as a child.

 

[onenerdykid]

i bet you had a lot of lunch money stolen from you as a child.

I actually never had that happen to me. But I did get into a lot of fights in high school and college though. I've mellowed out quite a bit in my elder days.

 

[cobra_commander]

No, I am a vegetarian who does not believe that humans and non-human animals are of equal moral worth. I try to act in a way that I think the most rational being on earth would, and as such I try to avoid killing sentient beings unless it is needed. We cannot live without using the earth, so we need to, but I think we should do it in the most reasonable way possible within our means.

I kill and eat meat cause I like it; just like Ciecil did.

 

[987321654hgfd]

ugh...you really are a less smart verion of Chicken

spot on.

 

[louie.mirags]

At the end of the day we need to put our moral high ground bullshit aside and remember that we are motherfucking apex predators and we motherfucking kill shit. We may be weaker and slower than any other apex predator but it is still in our blood to go out and kill stuff.

So by your logic, if I can succesfully kill you or someone you care about, you have no room for judgement

I thought this was a solid question and of course Cobra ignored it...

 

[theBearJew]

One of Cecils cubs was killed, by another lion.

 

[.Hugo.]

One of Cecils cubs was killed, by another lion.

Is that lion being persecuted on social media as well?

 

[theBearJew]

Is that lion being persecuted on social media as well?

Pretty sure the ILAOZ (internal lion affairs organization of Zimbabwe) are forming a investigation as we speak. Meanwhile the lions have had many town meetings about how to attack the lions livelihood, lions have no social media.

 

[ImNotARacist]

I thought this was a solid question and of course Cobra ignored it...

I second this.

 

[californiagrown]

I thought this was a solid question and of course Cobra ignored it...

Thats a moronic question.

The lions family is gonna be pissed but what the fuck are they gonna do about it? Cobra is an apex predator.

you kill one of cobras family, he will kill you, or the human society in which we live will kill you.

Humans are not the same as wild or domestic animals. He never said they were,

 

[louie.mirags]

Thats a moronic question.

The lions family is gonna be pissed but what the fuck are they gonna do about it? Cobra is an apex predator.

you kill one of cobras family, he will kill you, or the human society in which we live will kill you.

Humans are not the same as wild or domestic animals. He never said they were,

Well, I disagree. His justification using "apex" predators would also work if somebody killed his parents are girlfriend. Now I am not saying humans are equal to lions or that I care about this lion. I just hate when people ignore good questions.

 

[californiagrown]

Well, I disagree. His justification using "apex" predators would also work if somebody killed his parents are girlfriend. Now I am not saying humans are equal to lions or that I care about this lion. I just hate when people ignore good questions.

It wasn't a good question though. It attempted to twist his words and completely ignored the meaning of his post.

 

[S.J.W]

It wasn't a good question though. It attempted to twist his words and completely ignored the meaning of his post.

But the thing with all other Apex predators is that they won't attack or kill you for the sake of killing. They're opportunistic killers. Meaning they hunt for food and food only. So using the apex predator argument is abit dumb in my opinion because it refers to the food chain. Not killing for the sake of killing. We're also not living with basic survivial instincs like all other animals.

But say I killed your dog or cat? Would you be angry at me? Off course you would, that's the same feeling people had towards cecil the lion who was an extremely popular tourist attraction. And people also feel pain for animals shot every day. Because we can sympathise with animals.

 

[corona]

Meaning they hunt for food and food only.

not true.

Even lions kill for other reasons than food. A new alpha male will frequently kill all the young offspring from the previous alpha male in a pride for several reasons, none of which are food.

then of course there is evidence some animals such as killer whales and certain primates will kill for fun

 

[cobra_commander]

It was a stupid fucking question.

But the thing with all other Apex predators is that they won't attack or kill you for the sake of killing. They're opportunistic killers. Meaning they hunt for food and food only. So using the apex predator argument is abit dumb in my opinion because it refers to the food chain. Not killing for the sake of killing. We're also not living with basic survivial instincs like all other animals.

Many predators kill for the sole sake of establishing dominance. A grizzly will attack you because it sounds like a good time. You're arguments are almost always based on your emotional hart strings and rarely on fact.

But say I killed your dog or cat? Would you be angry at me? Off course you would, that's the same feeling people had towards cecil the lion who was an extremely popular tourist attraction. And people also feel pain for animals shot every day. Because we can sympathise with animals.

One is an animal I live with every day, year after year, and spend more time with than most people. The other is an animal that very few people have even seen once that's sole interest in any human is centered around their thigh meat. Dumb fucking comparison is dumb.

 

[S.J.W]

not true.

Even lions kill for other reasons than food. A new alpha male will frequently kill all the young offspring from the previous alpha male in a pride for several reasons, none of which are food.

then of course there is evidence some animals such as killer whales and certain primates will kill for fun

They're not killing for fun though. They're killing for a reason. I.e to establish dominence, to have more sex whatever.

It was a stupid fucking question.

Many predators kill for the sole sake of establishing dominance. A grizzly will attack you because it sounds like a good time. You're arguments are almost always based on your emotional hart strings and rarely on fact.

One is an animal I live with every day, year after year, and spend more time with than most people. The other is an animal that very few people have even seen once that's sole interest in any human is centered around their thigh meat. Dumb fucking comparison is dumb.

Refer to above post.

But it's only a fucking animal. We shouldn't put animals on pedestal. Let's kill all pets! They're only animals. What about the people that spent time with cecil the lion? Is there a time period in which validates how angry you're allowed to be when someone kills an animal?? Someone saw cecil the lion for a day, nope that's not long enough! can't be angry then!

 

[cobra_commander]

They're not killing for fun though. They're killing for a reason. I.e to establish dominence, to have more sex whatever.

Refer to above post.

But it's only a fucking animal. We shouldn't put animals on pedestal. Let's kill all pets! They're only animals. What about the people that spent time with cecil the lion? Is there a time period in which validates how angry you're allowed to be when someone kills an animal?? Someone saw cecil the lion for a day, nope that's not long enough! can't be angry then!

The people who spent time with Cecil were yummy.

 

[californiagrown]

But the thing with all other Apex predators is that they won't attack or kill you for the sake of killing. They're opportunistic killers. Meaning they hunt for food and food only. So using the apex predator argument is abit dumb in my opinion because it refers to the food chain. Not killing for the sake of killing. We're also not living with basic survivial instincs like all other animals.

But say I killed your dog or cat? Would you be angry at me? Off course you would, that's the same feeling people had towards cecil the lion who was an extremely popular tourist attraction. And people also feel pain for animals shot every day. Because we can sympathise with animals.

Dolphins kill for fun. Just a random fun fact.

Cecil was killed in order to prove the dentists dominance over lions, technically. That's a big, big part of the thrill for trophy hunters.

If you observed Cecil for a few minutes on your African safari and felt an emotional connection to the animal, you have emotional issues and should talk to a professional. Having a pet is a lot different, and I'm sure you understand that. Don't overreach and exxagerate your arguments.

Disagree with trophy hunting, fine. But people are way too carried away with this shit. They guy isn't evil, he didn't mean to miss his shot and have to track the animal down. He is a hunter that didn't respect the laws of the country he was in, because, well its fucking Africa and laws don't really exist haha.

 

[corona]

They're not killing for fun though. They're killing for a reason. I.e to establish dominence, to have more sex whatever.

You said food. No other reason. You were wrong. And like I said, there is evidence of other species killing for fun. Chimpanzees, killer whales, certain dogs and cats, etc. Ever had your chickens killed by a weasel? They just kill them and leave them. Ever had your cat bring birds back whole and leave them?

 

[S.J.W]

Dolphins kill for fun. Just a random fun fact.

Cecil was killed in order to prove the dentists dominance over lions, technically. That's a big, big part of the thrill for trophy hunters.

If you observed Cecil for a few minutes on your African safari and felt an emotional connection to the animal, you have emotional issues and should talk to a professional. Having a pet is a lot different, and I'm sure you understand that. Don't overreach and exxagerate your arguments.

Disagree with trophy hunting, fine. But people are way too carried away with this shit. They guy isn't evil, he didn't mean to miss his shot and have to track the animal down. He is a hunter that didn't respect the laws of the country he was in, because, well its fucking Africa and laws don't really exist haha.

Dolphins are fucking hardcore.

I never thought about that way to be honest. The whole dominace over lions. That's a pretty fair point. And I'll give you props for that.

And I agree that the whole debarkle over this lion has been fucked. If you look I posted a video as to why these viral trends occur. And I've tried to avoid the persecution aspect of this thread against the dentist. Like you said he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. This mans life is basically ruined now and the same people that are calling him a monster, etc are the ones who will eat factory farmed eggs and think they're doing some good for sharing a rant about him on facebook.

However, at the same time, conservation groups try to protect these animals and never gain any media attraction for their efforts. They fight for animal liberation and care about these animals and people don't really look into it or care about it. So I do think the persecution of the dentist had some positives as it led more people to care about animals.

But whatever I'm done with this thread. Dueces homie.

You said food. No other reason. You were wrong. And like I said, there is evidence of other species killing for fun. Chimpanzees, killer whales, certain dogs and cats, etc. Ever had your chickens killed by a weasel? They just kill them and leave them. Ever had your cat bring birds back whole and leave them?

But do those animals have critical thinking to know what they're doing is wrong? No, they're animals living on basic animalistic instics. Completetly different to a human.

]

 

[roddy116]

But the thing with all other Apex predators is that they won't attack or kill you for the sake of killing.

Ha no

 

[californiagrown]

Dolphins are fucking hardcore.

I never thought about that way to be honest. The whole dominace over lions. That's a pretty fair point. And I'll give you props for that.

And I agree that the whole debarkle over this lion has been fucked. If you look I posted a video as to why these viral trends occur. And I've tried to avoid the persecution aspect of this thread against the dentist. Like you said he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. This mans life is basically ruined now and the same people that are calling him a monster, etc are the ones who will eat factory farmed eggs and think they're doing some good for sharing a rant about him on facebook.

However, at the same time, conservation groups try to protect these animals and never gain any media attraction for their efforts. They fight for animal liberation and care about these animals and people don't really look into it or care about it. So I do think the persecution of the dentist had some positives as it led more people to care about animals.

But whatever I'm done with this thread. Dueces homie.

But do those animals have critical thinking to know what they're doing is wrong? No, they're animals living on basic animalistic instics. Completetly different to a human.

]

I also think that charities who don't directly stop HUMANS from dying are a waste, and should be banned.

Fuck lions. I know people with cancer who could benefit from more cancer research funding that goddamn lions are using.

So I'm a little biased I suppose haha

 

[corona]

But do those animals have critical thinking to know what they're doing is wrong? No, they're animals living on basic animalistic instics. Completetly different to a human.

source that animals cant think critically please.

'You're an average everyday australian who has no verrified knowledge and everything you say is complete bullshit.'

Chimps use tools, tools use and critical thinking go hand in hand. Chimps have been shown to kill for fun. Show to me that chimps, which can think critically, don't do so when/if they kill for fun.

 

[onenerdykid]

You said food. No other reason. You were wrong. And like I said, there is evidence of other species killing for fun. Chimpanzees, killer whales, certain dogs and cats, etc. Ever had your chickens killed by a weasel? They just kill them and leave them. Ever had your cat bring birds back whole and leave them?

(General remark, not specifically directed to you Vinnie) To know any animal's motivations or emotions felt while it kills something is pretty much impossible. We don't know what they are thinking or what they felt when doing it. All we know is what they do, and from that we draw parallels based our own experiences (which may or may not be a mistake to do). We, arguably, don't even know our own motivations half the time. We say we acted in the name of honor, but perhaps we were unconsciously simply to scared of the consequences of being a coward, for example.

We see a cat "playing" with a dead bird and assume it's having fun, rather than being super angry. We see an adult lion kill a cub, we say it's demonstrating its dominance, rather than simply being aggressively curious. But we don't know, we just make a fairly educated guess. They could simply feel nothing and are just reacting to their stimuli in their own genetically predisposed way (as some scientists think even we do). However, it does make them more relate-able when we assign to them feelings & emotions similar to our own, but that might not always be the most accurate conclusion to come to.

 

[cobra_commander]