Cash for Clunkers: A COMPLETE FAILURE

I don't really want to get into this argument. sorry about the first sentence, i guess i got carried away. you're right about malpractice suits, but most states have laws limiting the amount of money rewarded. there was a big article about the inefficiencies of u.s. health care, mcallen, tx in particular, in the new yorker a while back, but hospitals that were spending way over the average in medicare spending said that malpractice suits were not the reason for more testing.

you say that the govt. run option is an obligation for people who can't afford private companies, and you're sort of right. think about what would happen if there was insurance available to anyone who needed it, but no one was forced to have it. who's gonna pay for insurance when they're healthy? if i don't have to start paying insurance until I'm on my way to the hospital, the system is gonna fail reeeall fast.

no doubt the government needs to make the health care system more efficient in terms of the mandates or whatever.

i find it pretty funny when people automatically jump to socialism and communism whenever anyone mentions taxes or more regulation. I'm sure the u.s. would be fine without any of that. I absolutely don't think that there should be a 50% income tax or anything like that. in my opinion, the purpose of a "good government" is to tax bad things and subsidize good things. unfortunately, big business markets like corn and oil make that hard to do because of lobbying power. ideally, corn surpluses would be taxed because they are a negative externality; massive corn production and its subsequent uses are terrible for the environment. taxing other bad things like carbon emissions is better than taxing things like income because people are gonna be discouraged from doing things that are taxed. so if there is a higher tax in something like gas, people will be discouraged from driving too much, and therefore, there are less carbon emissions. (there are some difficulties with this because it hits poorer people harder). but say you have a 50% income tax. then people have less of an incentive to work, which is bad.

all i'm really trying to say i guess is that government is necessary and more taxes can be a good thing. the only problem is try selling $8 per gallon gas without huge disapproval.
 
You do realize that less than 20% of hospitals in the United States are for-profit hospitals?

And when did government ever run massive endeavors with massive amounts of spending with solid success? Your allegiance to "more govt. is probably the answer" seems based on.... nothing, perhaps simply the numbers on GDP spending in other developed countries, and perhaps disdain for capitalism, but that alone seems silly.
 
WHO GAVE HIM THE RIGHT TO BASH EVERYONE?

THE FOUNDING FATHERS OF THIS COUNTRY. ITS FREE SPEECH. Go and actually read the constitution. He can bash everyone. You can bash everyone.
 
Ad hominem. Please don't use phrases you can't spell, pronounce, or understand. Also, STFU every one of your posts suck and don't have to constantly try and reinforce daddy's beliefs by copy/pasting every single DrudgeReport article you find. You have no reason to be a conservative, and I dearly hope you are between ages 16 & 18. Also, stay away from conspiracy theories; they look like shit when you're trying to go for that intellectual dollar.

P.S. Got $4500 for my car. Helped fund my housing, contribute towards a better vehicle, and paid for my skis. Fuck yeah.
 
Uh, CARS has probably been the single most successful program in the stimulus bill at actually stimulating the economy. And as it works to stimulate the economy, it also helps the environment and reduces our dependency on foreign oil. It's definitely working. Just the fact that they've had to increase funding is a sign that it's working.
 
fuck off. You noticed its a typo, because the n key is directly next to the m key. And yes I understand it, both from my education in high school and college. Pronounce. Great argument there, since you can even tell how I say something over the internet. Great argument. Bravo.

Dont tell me to shut the fuck up. You clearly have nothing to say about how this program failed (other than it helped you), so you attack me instead. You dodge the debate of this failed program and try to ridicule me to try to make my views seem incorrect. And you have gone ad hominem. You need to use fact and reason and not use any of these assumptions, none of which are true. No copying and pasting was done. Drudge Report was not used. I dont have a good reason to be conservative? What kind of argument is that? You dont know what my dad's beliefs are. Sure before high school and during part of it, he influenced my views. We are different now, because Im in college and now a libertarian. I have many reasons to be conservative. I dont want the government interfering in the economy and with my freedoms. I dont want socialized medicine and my tax dollars and my future kid's tax dollars misused to "save" companies that cant fail and "save" the economy by buying a million dollars in ham and funding porno films. I wouldnt even say you dont have a reason to be liberal, if thats what you are, because its a fucking stupid argument, even if your reasons might be stupid. I didnt use any conspiracy theories. Name one.

Oh, so you actually get towards the topic of this thread instead of attacking me. So you got $4500. Well done addressing the bigger picture of this program and how it has failed terribly. You would have gotten the same thing if there had been a tax cut for economic stimulus instead of that shithouse piece of legislation delivering nothing but pork.

 
He has the right to bash everyone, but the fact that he slings crazy worst-case scenarios left and right and insists that they're factual and inevitable or based on sound research is not okay. People like him keep the economy from rebounding by scaring people into believing things that are completely false. Sure he's allowed to say it, but if he loves this country that allows him to say what he does, then he should stop trying to hard to destroy it.
 
949064-i_see_what_you_fucking_did_there_bird_super.jpg

 
Its not in the stimulus bill. Its separate. The only way its connected is they are going to take stimulus money and now use that to fund it again. Yes, there was a quote by Markey saying this was the best stimulus program of 2009. Its really not saying much looking at the economy right now. I doubt its helping the environment. Look at the chart I posted. You dont have to increase gas mileage by that much. And with all these cars being crushed, new cars will have to be produced and the energy required to produce them will far outweigh any energy saved from a 1 m/g increase in fuel economy. This would barely decrease our dependency on foreign oil. Drilling here, which we have tons of oil. Would do that. Investing in new technologies would do that. This isnt even close to the tip of the ice berg. You arent paying attention to my arguments and are clearly not reading my posts. how can anything in the world that is supposed to last a certain length of time, and only lasts 3% of that be a success. The main point is it shows the governments inability to run a simple program and make a simple budget.
 
Sorry to triple post, I'll chill out after this

Even though I'm a liberal and don't agree with many of the things you've said in this thread, I have to hand it to you, you have a point here.
 
no, if you are uninsured the IRS will tax you $5000.

Income taxes (with federal + state) will be over 505 in some places with the new taxes Obama will have for people that make over 250,000 a year. thank you for this understanding: "taxing things like income because people are gonna be discouraged from doing things that are taxed."

I disagree about taxing gas and some other things so much, but this isnt the thread to debate it.
 
Many people buy that don't have the money already due to unemployment, recession and jobs, economy goes back down..can go either way.
 
Cash for clunkers = completely awesome for the auto industry, and air emissions. Dont turn it into something retarded to hate the government about...

because really... the government doesnt run jack squat in america... corperations do. learn to realize that.
 
no shit. I have also heard that they are limiting the discount to people that make under 50,000 dollars a year. This is a way to lengthen the amount of time it will take for the money to be depleted. But fuck it, why not just give them a tax break. 1/2 of the cars that were bought with this program were going to be bought anyways.

Its a shame though. Unfortunately, I crashed my car on saturday, but it wasnt terrible. The engine runs fine, but since the car is worth 1300 and has over 300,000 miles on it, it is totaled (we will still fix it on our own). Its a shame because I see all these cars sitting on these lots at these car dealerships and they are going to be crushed. All of these cars run fine. My family cant afford to buy a new car. I cant afford that either. These used cars are going to be crushed, and we would buy one. Its a waste. Its simply a waste what is happening with these cars.

Besides my situation, there are tons of other people out there that cant afford new cars. They need used cars or car parts. With a decreases supply, the price will go up.
 
Dude.. if you need a new car just buy a car on craigslist... theres still PLENTY of people who dont need a new car, and just want to get their old cars out of the way..

as for the cars all going to the crusher? I understand MANY MANY of them are going to be donated... theres hundreds of 'donate your old car' programs such as "cars for kids" and such... and I hear many of the ones in good or better condition are all going to be donated to those groups.
 
no they aren't. Show me the evidence of this. I cant find the bill online, otherwise I'd read skim through it. Dealers are being instructed to put compounds in the cars to make the engines unusable. The liberals are stating this is a program to take old cars off the road and replacing them with newer more fuel efficient cars. Donating cars that have gone through the cash for clunkers program, back to these programs, (which I have found nothing on) directly contradicts one of the main reasons the bill was passed: It still keeps cars on the road. Find me significant evidence that cars that go through the cash for clunkers program are then given away again to charities.

Donating cars to charities is actually a direct competitor to cash for clunkers. People that would otherwise donate a car to charity, and get maybe a 1 or 2 thousand dollar tax deduction, will go for cash for clunkers since they would earn 3500-4500.

As for craiglist, we have already solved our problem, buying the parts for $300 and fixing the car ourselves. Buying a new car wouldnt be an option for us anyways.

The fact is there is a decrease in the number of available used car and car parts, which will increase the price.
 
the point is to get old gas guzzlers off of the road to help the environment, so that we still get snow every year and can keep skiing.
 
Oh wow brainwashing is still in I see.

First off, these cars are getting trashed, thats no eco friendly at all. Just take a second to think how those cars are getting demolished, what takes those cars to the salvage plant? huge gas guzzling trucks. Who is supporting the bill for cash for clunkers, a congress thats trying to get their own private planes (oh yeah eco friendly for sure). What do most people ride around ski resorts in? big gas guzzling SUVs and buses. I could go on, and on, and on, and on.

and like ATL said, its lowering the number of used cars on the market. in one week alone they got rid of 250,000 used cars. So lets say at this rate there will be one MILLION used cars off the market.

Demand for used cars has increased in part of the recession. and now supply is shortened, oh boy look out price increase.
 
sorry for the dub post but I forgot to add the obvious reason for the cash for clunkers program. to stimulate the economy and get people to buy cars. thats the #1 reason they passed this bill. dont fool yourself, its to get car dealers busy again. a combined MPG of 22 isnt exactly economical.
 
FOR US - A failure in the long run.

-Sure everyone has shiny new cars now and that's great but where did the money for your big discount come from? THIN AIR. More ghost money being printed = devaluing our dollar even further. I know a few billion dollars doesn't mean shit in a world where trillion is the new billion but more gas on the fire doesn't help at all.

-The used car parts industry will suffer along with all the salvage yards. Some salvage yards are participating in these shenanigans and some are not. Either way they lose. For the ones that are it's almost not even worth the labor needed to strip down a car without the engine being usable. For the ones that are not participating in this scam they go about regular business for now but when the time comes around for the potential salvage yard candidates that are being crushed there will be a shortage of used parts.



FOR BANKS/DEALERS - A success until the loans are paid off!!!

-Less used cars now and in the near future means more loans will be needed from the same banks that continue to financially rape their customers. More loans that NEED to be handed out so that future drivers will have a car means that as long as those banks hold those loans the "too big to fail" thing will once again come in to play. Banks LOVE that you own them money. They love that you need them and that they have a tight little grip on your entire life and all of your assets (to them it's called collateral) as long as you're in some kind of debt.

-In America there will most likely always be a market for big

4x4 vehicles as long as manufacturers produce them. Now with a

shortage of SUPER cheap 4x4's the brand new ones that have been sitting

on the dealer lot for the past 2 years ever since people began getting

a little smarter with their money, will all of the sudden they are

worth a little more now that the numbers of big beefy cars on the

market has gone down.

 
Holy crap I didnt know they were poisoning the engine. This was from someone else on a different forum

"Local news had a great story on this program from the junkyard's

prospective. Some junkyards don't want the cars because they lose

$500-700 on the value of the destroyed engine and transmission.

Additionally, they said that seats cannot be salvaged, because the

solution poured into the engine creates harmful vapors that get trapped

in the seats (seems ironic for a program that is supposed to help the

environment?)."
 
the increased funding does NOT mean its working it just means that they hope it will start working better.

the really funny thing was it was supposed to stimulate the purchase of DOMESTIC cars meaning Ford, Dodge/Chrysler, and GM.... of the top 5 cars purchased i think Ford had a car that came in at number 1 in the most purchase, and then toyota and honda rounded out the rest of the top 5 between themselves.... thats helping Ford, the only domestic car company in this country that ISNT bankrupt but from what i understood this was meant to stimulate the american car companies that Obama and Bush (im a conservative but he started all this shit, fucking idiot) bailed out meaning Chrysler and GM... i dont think they even broke the top 10 in cars purchased under this program.
 
I did not read all of this thread but our store just bought a new GM truck for our company and cash-for-clunkered our old truck.

All it is is just us ripping off the government and taxpayers. it will work on the short term but not the long term, it can't. the only way this program could work is if this went into law and you could always get this deal.

what it is, is essentially a really big sale that the car dealerships do not have to pay for. It does not matter if you get all your customers now (which is what is happening) or over the course of a couple months. your are still getting the same amount of customers as you normally would (despite may be just a handle full of odd-ball customers). all the car companies are getting their business now instead of what would normally occur over the remainder of the year.

anyways, here in Montana, the dealership that our business used said they have not gotten paid for one car yet from the government, neither has any dealership in Montana to their knowledge. Good for the American consumer, not good for the car dealerships making the offers.

this is what happens when the government implement a plan that has not been thought out completely. If they would have allowed enough money to begin with it wouldnt be that big of a deal or if they would make up their minds how they want to end it. right now, as of 18th of the month, the dealership does not even know if its still going on.... i would hate to own a car dealership right now.
 
First off to all of you out there that assume this was a success because you capatiled on an opportunity to get an exillerated sum for your car that was worth shit, I only hope you use better logic in everyday life.

Now to the point of this post. This was a failure simply because it didn't have the abillity to stimulate the economy without relapse. This was a only a nicely wrapped scheme to improve the 3rd quarter earning reports for car companies. Wrong! All it did was take more money out of Americans pockets to help save the car / banking industry. They might as well have just increased the bail outs and counted it as proffit for the companies.

As for the health care debate. If you are an American who enjoys any of your freedoms at all you should not want a government controlled health insurance. If that doesn't scream movement toward socialism I dont know what will.
 
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