Can skiing go further?

Mr.Bishop

Mr.Bishop

Active member
Staff member
Ok boys and girls... it's intelligent discussion time. That means, no hating, no negativity, no name calling. If you have something to say, you must post it in an intellegent, well-thought out way. Think we can do it?

Skiing's future... In my opinion the sport will grow. However the question is for how long can our segment of the skiing world grow for?

Snowboarding has lots more money than us, because the simple fact is that there isn't as many different factions... a snowboard company has to have pro athletes to sell snowboards..period. Ski companies have Ski Instructors, Racers, Mogul Skiers, Big mountain, Park skiers, etc...

In my mind the future of skiing is for everybody to band together. There's no such thing as a big mountain guy telling a park kid to learn to ski, because they both ralise that they can both ski equally well, it's just a matter of where they live, or what they prefer to do.

Here's another interesting topic: How many tricks left are there to do? Once you've been watching cork 7's for 10 years, will it be tired?

 
you pretty much said it all right there....about all i can offer to the equation is a comparison.

Wakeboarding, everything has been done as big as it can go. Wakes really cant get bigger so now its a style contest (holding grabs longer etc)

my opinion on this subject is that a. the tricks will continue progressing into the backcountry. b. the jumps will continue to get bigger until a recognizable name dies doing something stupid. and c. I think that jump to rail combos might be the wave of the future.

just my .02
 
well, I do believe there is more then one way to do the same trick,i's all about doing them with something in it.

As far as tricks are concerned i don think there will be problem soon.

the money thing is always a problem since weare doing a rich people sport were passes are getting more andmore pricey all the time. You have to be dedicated to the sport or rich to ski a lot nowadayz.
 
Once the new-school generation of skiers gets older and has kids (it's probably not that far off for some of us) you're going to see a major shift towards a more "snowboarding" type of direction where you just have Pros, not necesarly Pro Racers / Pro Mogul Skier / Pro Park Skier / Pro Big Mountain. The market can't and won't sustain that type of division... especially not with racing becoming less and less popular. Not a knock on racing, but not too long ago it used to be that the "best" (as far as public perception goes) skiers were the fastest ones, and thats not at all true anymore, so kids aren't really going to aspire to be the fastest, they are going to aspire to ski big AK lines, or more likely go bigger in the park, and the market is going to adjust for that.
 
Skiing can go further. We just have to take a step back and work on style and critics for competitions.

Tricks have been getting more and more insane over the years.(Remember Jonny Mosley's 360 mute many years ago?that was crazy back then)Now switch cork 1080 blunt has become a standard. The direction is hard to tell, but it needs to change to keep it alive.
 
I think that in order for out segment of skiing to progress, we need to invest more in the independent companies that are directly in our industry. Companies that only make the twin tip skis and things just for us. Once we do this, we make ourselves our own indsutry, and the companies will have enough money to do some new things. Once we stop throwing money at the big corporations who aren't commited 100% to our newschool industry, our sport will thrive.
 
I still think it has potential to go further. The progression curve will definetly level off though. I have wondered that same thing though. When will we be tired of watching those same tricks over and over again, just off of mildly dissimiliar jumps. I still think that switch skiing in the pump hasnt even really been touched yet. Switch landing in the backcountry has only really started, although I definetly see a physical boundary here.

At some point I wouldnt be suprised if we see a double flip trend come back. However, the double flips would be more reminiscint of what Mike Wilson does, not the Schrab boys.

I still see rail progression. By this I mean actual stuff while on the rails, not while jumping on to the rail itself. Can't wait to start this debate again, but maybe some more one footed stuff, 50 50s anyway. Too many people are too big of pussies to take this anywhere, no offence. Also, get creative with using pole while on rails. Dead serious, I'd like to see someone slide a rail upside down with their poles. I think it can be done, at least with the rails on the sides of pipes anyway. I can think of another one too.

There will be a point though, where the jumps are just made too big and the risks are too high and progression will more or less stagnat. While, I'm sure for all the people doing it, it will still be fun, but I see less interest in what other people are doing, thus less video and photos, thus, less sponsorship money. However, I think it will get much better before that, and when I say less sponsorship money I mean it might actually still be significantly more than now. I'm also looking 20 if not 30 yrs down the road.

My thoughts anyway.
 
I think for sure it is going to go much further. Over time we will get more and more publicity. There will be so many kids riding tiwns you wont believe it. Just like snowboarding. Trick wise, I think it's going to come down to who can do everything consistently, and with the most style. Slow cork 3's and 5's, and sick cork 7's over huge gaps in the backcountry with clean grabs. A point I tried to make last X Games is how consistent Tanner Hall is. Every single one of his competitors fell at least once in competition, and he did not, which is why he still dominates our sport today. Going back to how it's going to turn out, I think it will be something like this: http://alternaactionfilms.com/ Sickest teaser of the year bar none. Skiing will get to be like that at one point. See how smooth all of their tricks are?
 
This is an excellent point.... how long can it last?

I hope that I can be 54 years old, watching ski movies, and hoping my kid will be in them... but will the youth stay interested in the sport when we are all the parents?

Mostly one hates what their parents do. So a sport built on hating the establishment... what does it do when it IS the establishment?

Will our kids race and say "Dad you suck... going fast is the shit!"
 
Not really bro....ski racing is at its peak right now...

The US Team is the best it has ever been with Bode comming off of an historic season for US Racers...All ski race academies are booked out and Junior Racing Programs are huge...

I think that our side is the smallest part of skiing and recreational skiing needs to be encouraged...

The grim truth is that all snow sports are in decline...

Do you want NS skiing to grow? it will, it will become normal skiing, when does the new aspect aspect of newschool skiing end? And when it becomes normal (which i think it has) to own twin tips or ski backwards, then were is our novelty, where is the punk?
 
I think once people get over progression everyone can quit worrying and start having more fun. That's what skiing is it's fun. that's why we spend millions of dollars to slide downhill.
 
for starters, eliminating boot grabs from every ski film is a must. the grabs need to be extenuated every time (i.e. tim durtschi or tanner rainville)

the street rail scene has not even come close to topping out. i hear snowboarders, myself included, saying "only a skier could do that type of rail.

the product must grow quickly and appropriately, especially the soft goods. when you go to SIA (the snow trade show in Vegas) the majority of ski booths are filled with product that would never appeal to a skier younger than 30. i see a lot of skiers wearing snowboard gear. this is simple: more $$$ for the snowboard companies while the skiing one's lose more.

the expantion of embracing more athletes. if the monopolization of the same overall athletes continues, there will be many negative outcomes. for one: the pros themselves that are not being embraced will develop a hatred for their sponsors, the sport, and the mega skiers themselves. i am witnessing numerous pro skiers who can't stand to look at the current magazines due to the same core guys being displayed. i am witnessing numerous pro skiers who can't stand to talk to their team managers because the team manager cares more about their own career, lesser quality athletes who suck their dick, and the product is not being developed around the athlete.

furthering this point, what if we only had one tv station that pumped us full of their message and the same actors? after the entertainment wore off, we would develop negative opinions due to boredom and frustration of the monopoly. meanwhile a guy like chappelle would be doing standup make thousands laugh while the fans would suggest "hey why don't get on the 1 tv station?" chappelle would say, "i can't, first off they don't take brothers, second they only use around 25 actors maximum." ya, this isn't a race thing, but you get my point: expand the coverage more rapidly or the core will become bored and frustrated. look at what robot food did for about a dozen riders: new guys, for the most part, and they all blew up.

the style of the sport is changing, the managers controlling the fate of the talent is changing (slowly), the films are changing, the magazines are changing, the technology, like this website, is changing. let's just hope all these changes make skiing grow.
 
I dont think its the money nor the sponsorship the problem of progression. I am not concerned with the expansion of skiing or the type of skiing. I am concerned that skiing will halt progression because nobody can do any harder tricks.I am having a hard time seeing the beauty of a new invented trick. Until people will try harder and sweeter tricks for a feeling and not for competition, skiing will progress and surpass our generation.
 
^ werd. he's got a point. i think that, as much as certain individuals are going to hate it, there will have to be more progression in the sense of one footers, double off axis inverts, handplants, new grabs (ie. japanical, vail grab). and everybody is going to either hate it or love it. as far as the next 20 years...its kind of up in the air. will we turn into snowboarding and have gapers everywhere and like a bazillion good kids who cant get sponsored because theres just to many pros already? or will it die? and become underground again...unlikely, but if people start skiing for themselves more...who knows
 
I think skiing can go further for sure. I just dont think it will continue with 'progression'. And what I mean by that is, Doug is right, in that you can only see so many SW Cork 10's and be impressed. I also think that 'style' is all subjective too. I think 'penciled out' isnt necesarily all that bad. Because to me I think that all bunched up in a ball is dumb sometimes. Now that may not be the way others see it, but thats the way I do. And with that diversity you will see less progression. I think that as an entire market skiing really needs come together. Park rats, hate racers....racers hate park rats. Skiing is skiing. Ok you can switch 5 tail..someone else can fly down an icy run doing who knows what speed and make a turn on a dime. Both ski. Its skiing. Id like to see more people enjoying the sport and focus less on who's hitting what gap and who has the most 'steeze' [which on a sidenote i think is a stupid word to begin with]. Skiing should be fun and hopefully you'll just see more people having fun in skiing and not caring so much whats going on where. And as far as the 'kids dont like what their parents do' i agree with that to some extent for some kids, but I...like many, got started into skiing when my dad took me to a hill and followed me down the bunny hill. It all depends on how you view the industry as well as our sport.
 
I totally agree. I believe that the image of being a "skier" hasn't been marketed at all, save the Line "I am a Skier" shirt. However, I do see it becoming a growing trend more and more. I can think back to the Rant in "Skeeze" about ski style and its influence from snowboarding. People have been writing about turning their backs to their parents' generation for centuries. I think the "newschool" scene will become a sustainable market only when skiers themselves set their own pace, not from copying another progressive sport (snowboarding).

That being said, I'm in disagreement with what Micah Abrams had to say about skiing switch. I think skiers have assigned their own meaning to "switch". We have defined it as pointing your back downhill and skiing. I think it's just a difference of semantics.
 
At what point do we stop worrying so much about "progression?" When people are having a good time, new things will naturally come into existence. I sense people trying to force change to occur and thats when a sport can grow stale. With so many talented individuals within our skiing community, "progression" will happen.
 
I definitely think skiing is a family sport. I can remember when my father carried me between his knees because I was afraid to ski a green square when I was four.

I also remember beating my dad down the hill when I was eight or nine.

When I have kids, I'm sure the cycle will continue.

The thing that differs between my father and myself is a different sense of what skiing is. I feel that too many people pigeon hole themselves into thinking what skiing isn't. I'm more for a unified, assimilated all mountain approach, where skiers will see the challenge, and "fun" in both park and cruisers, urban and big mountain.
 
while i agree with it in a sense.. i think the position is correct and other pro's should learn to swallow a little bit of their pride because it would be better for the community if they did.

Loyality to an athlete (for the right reasons), and pushing one individual over another is done in all sorts of industries. Action sports (i hate that name too) need to have this because you can't market one person one year and then another 13 year old newcomer the next year. why become a dedicated athlete just to get 15 minutes?? maybe it can be a successful strategy within this community and those that follow it so closely, but for expansion and respect outside our bubble there has to be a name.

I just feel like there's a lot of jealousy within our community for whatever reason and it's becoming self-destructive.

maybe it's because there's only a small piece of pie to be shared, i don't know. but for the community as a whole to succeed this is an area that we need to work on.
 
I'm in school and intelligent-ed out for now, but this is an awesome topic that I intend to read in full and comment on later.
 
I think we are getting fairly close to doing 'all' the tricks that are possible and are doing it with absolute style. However I find that Snowboarders are ahead of us in the sense that they find a lot of innovative and wierd ways of doing all of their tricks compared to skiers.

Now some companies are starting to get a lot better at editing and is heading towards the right direction of movie making IMO. For instance White Shine may not have the best footage but I find that its so well done that I can watch it over and over again just because its a fun movie to watch, not because it has the biggest tricks.

I also hope that the skiing community starts uniting and realizing what the word free means. There are a lot of [park rat, big mountain, racer, mogul, whatever] skiers calling on [park rat, big mountain, racer, mogul, whatever] skiers to start doing "REAL" skiing. It's called freeskiing because you're free to do whatever the fuck you want. They are just falling into the same trap as racers and mogulers of the past. Same shit goes with Andy Mahre. He doesn't use poles in the park so people felt the need to rip on him. He is allowed to do whatever he wants on the slopes, as are you. If you wana hit a jump with one ski or a rail, by all means do so, as long as it doesn't mess other people up.
 
^ yeah, what he said.

But also i wanted to add that i think pretty soon people will be spinning 1440's like its their job. in 10 years, a 65ft gap will be not so big anymore, and 100 ft will be in the x games parks. The standards will be raised significantly and the riders will respond.
 
Trick and style aside...how much will the skis themselves change in the future? look at the changes that have been made in the last decade to the ski. it's gone from something 210cm's long and 55mm underfoot, to something that is 180 and 110mm underfoot. i'm not wondering about the sport because people will always love it, but i'm wondering about how skis will change in the future
 
skiing on snowboards is the next big things. As well as trick combos, like 360 critical grap to cork 7 tail. Skis will get fatter with a ph, and tricks will evolve into other, new tricks, which will be variations or deviations of today's tricks, thats what i think
 
and it will get bigger, its unavoidable, so many young kids ski on twins now, where 5 years ago they'd all be starting to snowboard, which is still probably what the majority does, but still, its growing for sure
 
It will continue to grow. There are certain decisions we must make down the road for it to continue like it has.

As long as we make the right decisions, the possibilities are endless. The jumps will get bigger and bigger. The style will get better, and the judging (please God) will be satisfactory.

Did anyone think 2 years ago Danny Way would jump the Great Wall of China on a skateboard? Did anyone think a backflip on a snowmobile was possible? Or a Motocross bike for that matter? What about the 900? D-Spin 7 over Chads, or 810 to rail, was anyone thinking that back in 98 when Mosely grabbed his skis in Nagano?

The only thing that can stop our sport from growing is ourselves...
 
i haven't even read half the posts but i'll post my peace.

I think things are gonna progress alot. ever notice how half the BC kickers are in the US and Canada alone? generally it doesnt really seem like we have even tapped europe. I mean if snowboarders can find all sorts of different varietys of jumps and not just the same over and over and over, we should be able to as well.

For rails, we still have long ways to go i think, jf houle and a few others have started doing tail presses last year. but only really just touching the presses. then theres switch ons, unnatural stuff, switch ups, spins on and off. there are alot of areas to be explored and unlike BC stuff, theres alot of different things no matter how you build the take off. look at all the rails everywhere each city, even town has at least one or two rails.

and just in skiing as a whole, we can still bring it forward, after reading whoevers comment about the money part, i think its almost neccesary to help the ski scene out now and i definatly will buy more ski stuff then skate/ snow. it is alot about money too now that i think about it, all these film companies can't travel near as much as snowboard ones because they don't get as much money. as J loeloff said, theres too much giving to everyone but not getting anything back as far as money goes. and with a sponsor like ninthward(no offense) but they dont have near the amounts of funds as say rossignol or armada, to travel to europe all the time or anything like that.

That is just what i think about it maybe im wrong about the money thing.....
 
As Melvs said I really think we need to begin looking at supporting ourselves as an industry. Undoubtably bigger companies have done the most in pushing our sport but overall they are doing it for the $$$.

The idea of banning together is a positve one but as of now seems very far off. Skiing as a sport has nothing but to gain from it but i dont see it being expected on a whole.

As far as tricks I think there is always a chance for a new flavor. 20 years ago as far as ppl knew the backflip was the king shit!!
 
Anyone else see the 11th Hour? Everyone's just having fun throwing twisters, daffys and spreads disastering onto some of the sickest NS shit. It's about time skiing identifies with its past. Skiing survived long before the NS movement. Want your own identity? You've already got it. Every person on the mountain who steps into a pair of skis is your image and it appeals to everyone. There are so many things you can do on skis. Diversity is our identity.
 
I don't think we are near the end of dare i say the evil word "prograssion" at all. I agree there is a great potetntial for money in this sport from tourism, to products to tourists buying newschool related products. I think we are in a the terrible twos stage of the sport where we are dealing with such rapid growth tha it appears to be nearing a completed end. tricks will always develop. like ^ this skiersquid said tricks are "cyclicle" sp.? we will be doing tricks from the past with new twists on them. its like the music industry fads will come and go and than resurface again. the physical strength of the athletes will be the only thing limiting the size of jumps and tricks completed. I forsee a slower pace of progrssion in the future but not a stop at all. there is always some crazy ass little kid ready to try something new that will all have us going , "damn did you see that", and i can't wait.
 
Exactly. Skiing will be limited because it's so damn expensive.

What would help progress the sport is if all the potentially great athletes could do it. But getting a basketball in your hands is a lot easier than scoring boots, poles, skis, etc.

And then there's the fact that the sport is weather dependent.

As far as skiers being skiers, I personally don't differentiate between types of skiing. If you do rails, cool. Big mountain? Also cool. It's all just sliding on snow, which is why I also don't have problems with snowboarders. In fact, several of my favorite people to ride with are single plankers. I like riding with them because they are always fully stoked to be out there.

Tricks? Yeah, when they get to spinny it will be just like freestyle jumps - spinning all over the place. I would expect that style will play a much more important role this year as well as in the future.
 
i still think it can go so much further, there are still underflips, double grabs, one foot grinds (they still creative), you can always make or find a jump bigger, alot of us will never get as stylish as jon olson and thall

... tho the answer is yes, skiing can go further
 
Skiing can go much much further. First of all, skiing right now is blowing up. There is continually more money and kids out there every year(or at least by my observations). With this new popularity will also come more coporate interest in the sport. The question is whether or not this coporate interest will be short lived or will stay there. If this new found popularity proves to be a trend, coporate support will pull out, leaving newschool skiing to come crashing down after without the money these coporations put in. By supporting companies within newschoolskiing that have been started from within, we are assuring a healthy sport no matter what its popularity is.

As for tricks wise, the biggest thing i see in skiing right now is a complete lack of creativity. every jumpout there is the same. Jump to a standard hill. there is many more possibilities. And rails have barely begun. The possibilities are absolutely limitless. I think within the next few years you will see skiers explore progression beyond just what trick they are doing and more towards the obstacle/jump its done on.
 
yes yes, it's almost as if there's an unwritten law of limitations that so many skiers follow, and they avoid doing this by what is already proven to be popular and well liked...i personally don't like this idea at all, and hope it changes.
 
skiing is goin huge, but I dont think it has the possibity to go past snowboarding, the thing is that every kid and their mom thinks skiing as old farts goin down the hill, no one knows about the park scene. But I do think it will reach the point that inline is at, and personaly I like it, not a whole lot of posers. With inline, you see another inliner and you go talk to them, because there are so few of you. But with skating every one does it, even I do it, and in skating you dont go up to a kid and talk to him like in inline.
 
U guys wrote alot. Yes it will progress but at a slower pace...there will always be somethin new....Just cause your not having a "boom" in the skiing doesnt mean it isnt progressing.
 
Everybody watch that teaser, sickest snowboarding teaser i have ever seen, that i think anyone has ever seen, wooow, epic film, music matched perfectly 10!
 
having discussions like this will further help the progression of the sport. The fact that we are concerned enough to hold a post like this shows that we will not let skiing slip, but we will build it up. I feel we will always do somthing to keep skiing fresh and originol.
 
i have a quick question, im not really up on the history of freeskiing, but when was the big event that caused the newschool scene, i know the phils had alot to do with it jp and them, but how many years has park skiing been around? Because with in the last 2 years there has been a big bang of stuff and i just wanted to know how long it took for this to happen, because this blew up quick and i dont want it to burn out like pogs
 
everyone's always talking about getting our sport out there. it will happen dont worry.

for the "how many tricks are there left to do" thats a good question. I dont know how far it will go because i'm not good enough to push it, but i'm sure guys like wilson and candide will keep pushing it
 
ya this is a reely goods topic i mean it reely makes youwonder how long can skiing progress becaus theres no way people will ever be ale to drop 300 foot cliffs with out a parachute and theres no way people will be able to go 500 feet off a jump i just cant see that ever being possible but i do think that style will progress to the ut most maximum at this day and age it seems to be the "gorilla" steeze that everyone likes and is trying to imitate but that is just one style other styles will be created and progressed old styles will be dropped and forgotten about fur hooded coats will go out of fasion to be replaced by coats made entirely of on hopelessly defenceless slaughtered animals. its just very very hard to predict a sports future when it has already grown to enormous amounts in a very very short period of time.
 
it's hard to say. but like many have said just putting money in to the core companies who are looking to push our sport is the way to go. we shouldn't compare or even look at what snowboarding has done/achieved because i think that we will never reach that level. they started so much differently and evolved so much differently. word to the future hope it's a good one
 
I think people need to move out of the park and see skiing for what it really is again. I feel that the skiing mainstream has gotten so wrapped up in the park scene, we are neglecting the rest of skiing.

Many of the new videos feature backcountry jumps and urban jibbing, but this is simply an extension of the park. It takes a lot more effort and commitment to go out of the park and construct features and it is to be respected. (For example CR's bio 10 in yearbook. I think that jump was about 80 feet).

I have found myself looking back to the times when we had no terrain parks (you may all be a bit young for this one). Back then you could'nt even build a jump on the mountain (at a resort) without ski patrol knocking it down and yelling at you. We were forced to find natural features such as cliffs, lips, logs, ect and while these elements are still present today, the mainstream park and trick style of skiing has not fully merged with the traditional "skiing" as much as it could.

Anybody that has seen some of the new videos, eg Pop Ur Bottlez. Some of the top riders today are taking the tricks to the backcountry lines, following in the footsteps of Seth Morrison. (You may recall the brutal attempts to throw a rodwo 7 off massive cliffs at full speed). I think skiing will head in this direction, as athletes gain the skills to perform similar "tricks" (jumps/jibbing) on natural features as opposed to constructing features.

"Respect the world that has been created for you by your predecessors by finding new ways to jib them."

sick
 
I'm not sure there was a defining "moment" where skiing woke up and got cool. I remember trying to grab my skis throwing penciled-out threes in the "snowboard" park in 95-96. All my friends switched to snowboarding, but I was too lazy to learn a new sport. So they always pushed me to do more stuff like them. Man, did I ever have the sweetest daffy. I just got sick of doing the same tricks as the last 20 years, especially when I saw snowboarders.
 
i think skiing will ocntinue to get bigger and bigger until it is the new fad...like skateboarding was and how snowbaording is. then it will calm down and the true skiers will be left becasue they always loved the sport, not just when it was popular...like we are doing now...
 
we need a compition where you can only spin as high as 540.

we need to stop whipping outselves i thingk (cork 10) i just hope to go with the flow and watch our sport evolve
 
I havent read everything but here's what I think:

THe people who said newschool skiing would lose that title and just became apart of regular skiing, I think, are on point. I also agree with the people who say rails are the future of prgression. Handrails are still being slid regular. I think we've only just begun with that. Like spinning on hand rails and multiple switchups, etc, is something not seen often. I also think about our sport being part of the mainstream. I know people think its good to give newschool exposure, let people know what its all about. Personally I hope it never becomes as popular as snowboarding where people do it to be part of the mainstream, a poseur if you will. Where it is now is great, I think. But think of ssx on tour, thats definately a landmark whether you like it or not. Theres more to say, but other people got it.
 
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