Bush pushes to lift Arctic drilling ban

sorry Quinny, but that last post was too long to quote.

Do you think its working in Canada? Its more expensive here than in the US, we are now paying 1.34 a liter. We have the oil sands, producing a shit load of dirty oil every day. But prices havent shifted at all. what tells you drilling in the north will drive down prices. Low prices=more consummation and stocks by the consumer. The demand will rise equally to the supply, leaving the price exactly were it started. That is something I would do.

I am using the argument of expensive oil to encourage research. Oil is still needed, people are pretty conservative with their lifestyles. These "improvements" only started happening in the last couple of years. Improvements are happening, just too slow. High prices is a motivator.

Its like writing an essay:when would you write it, on the assignment date or the due date? If the due date is pushed back, would your efforts be pushed back too. Mine would. Stress is a motivator.
 
THE AREA THAT WOULD BE DRILLED IN ANWR IS THE SIZE OF DULLES AIRPORT AND IS COVERED IN ICE FOR 8 MONTHS, DARKNESS FOR 4, AND WETLANDS FOR 4. Seriously, the drilling of an area that small is not going to affect caribou hardly at all. It's certainly not killing them.

Robert Kennedy wanted to go up and do a documentary film on ANWR about how we shouldnt drill there because of the wildlife and prestine environment. He was taken to where the drilling would take place, where there was no caribou, only a mosquito infested wetland. He got out and said, "wheres all the wildlife? I cant do a film here." He scratched the idea for the film. Granted, wildlife could be there other times but the area is so small, and they arent around there much, if at all.

About the oil not affecting gas prices...Once oil speculators see more supply that is created by anwr and offshore, they are going to decrease the price.
 
significant enough. depends on how much oil is drilled really. im also thinking drilling in anwr would be drilled along with offshore drilling in the gulf and hopefully california.
 
about the size of the airport...

Dulles International Airport has three runways: two that are 11,500

feet long and one that is 10,500 feet long, according to the

Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority:
http://www.mwaa.com/dulles/facts.htm. All three runways are 150 feet

wide (personal communication Dulles International Airport by Eric

Dayton, Natural Resources Defense Council, August 2001). The three

cover a total of 115 acres, or 38 acres per runway.. so um yeah.

2000 acres =

1500 football fields

20 Mall of Americas

52 airport runways

According to the U.S.

Geological Survey, oil in the refuge is not concentrated in one large

reservoir within a 2,000-acre area but is spread across its

1.5-million-acre coastal plain in more than 30 small deposits. To produce oil from this vast area, supporting infrastructure would

have to stretch across the coastal plain. Networks of pipelines and

roads obviously would fragment wildlife habitat.

The oil field

industrial sprawl on the North Slope, including drill sites, airports

and roads, and gravel mines has a footprint of 12,000 acres, but it

actually spreads across an area of more than 640,000 acres, or 1,000

square miles.

Proponents of drilling

in the refuge point to the 100-acre Alpine oil field west of Prudhoe

Bay as the state-of-the-art model for developing the refuge. The

2,000-acre "limitation" would allow 20 oil fields the size of Alpine

scattered across the refuge's coastal plain.

Even if the 2,000

acres were contiguous, such an area could cover a lot of ground. For

example, the 12-lane-wide New Jersey Turnpike, which stretches more

than 100 miles across the state, covers only 1,773 acres.

The 2,000-acre

limitation would not include gravel mines or roads. The House's

limitation would allow for 20 oil fields the size of the 100-acre

Alpine oilfield west of Prudhoe Bay, which required a 150-acre gravel

mine and 3 miles of roads. More roads are planned.

Meanwhile, oil companies in the North Slope oil fields excavated gravel

from mines that stretched over 2,000 acres, and then covered 10,000

acres of tundra with gravel for roads, drilling pads and building

foundations.
 
let me start with your an idiot.

caribou migrate you dumb shit, the herds range extends far into Canada which also poses a problem for lobbying environmentalist groups because there also considered Canada's caribou too.

As for where the oil

The area which would be opened for drilling exploration dwarfs the size of dulles airport. Its 1.5 million acres. I have no idea where you got this redic "fact" about dulles airport from but it sure as shit is not true. First of all the 1.5 million acers still needs to be explored. The 10-15 billion barrel estimate is based on surface exploration and seismology. Only one test well has been drilled. If this 1.5 million acres was opened there would be many test wells which would have to be drilled. Once the reservoirs were located many wells would be set up spread apart from each other. The nature of this "mosquito infested wetland" you speak of is permafrost which is extreamly fragile. Ive spent time in the Alaskan arctic and you can see tracks where the permafrost has died and not recovered from mining and construction equipment being driven across is years and years before. We don't know where the oil is exactly so the countless test wells which we would need to drill would have an environmental impact even before the real drilling started. To support the new drilling operation many roads and new pipes would have to be built as well to conect the new fields to the TAPS (trans-Alaskan pipeline system)

Like i said before messing up this area is pointless the oil wont lower our oil prices nor will it likely go to the US. Oil prices are not controlled by supply and demand. They are controlled by what oil companies deiced to set them at. Oil could be significantly cheaper and oil companies would still profit. Don't think if we open more oil fields that oil companies would allow the market to be flooded and prices to drop. It wont happen gas prices will not go down the US is finally feeling what the rest of the world has been for years our prices have been artificially low and we have reached the end of that era. Deal with it. Glad my job profits off it, haha sorry guys. As i said before there are much better places to drill where the environmental impact will be mush less such as new offshore projects in the Gulf, pacific and atlantic OCS.
 
buy a goddam motorcycle, they get super good mileage, then just go to a local welder and have hime create a custom ski rack for your bike on the back of it or something.
 
Does Canada retain all the oil it produces? Price per barrel continues to rise and the supply of available oil has not really changed. The only thing that has changed is the increase in demand with developing counties moving towards industrialization. The reason the price is going up is because more people (China and India for example) are buying from the same supply. The idea that we drill our own oil means that we take out the middleman and we can control who gets to have it. It puts our energy needs back into our control.
 
K2 can't ship skis from California to Killington on a motorcycle. You also can't dive a motorcycle for shit in snow.
 
i can't stand political arguments on NS, it's just a bunch of kids who think they have it right when in truth, their opinions are bolstered by bullshit they find on the internet that they interpret as 100% fact. Most of the time this "information" is leftist bile that is contorted and spun to be spewed out to uneducated imbeciles who are more than willing to jump on that big, green, "hate america and its capitalist pigs" bandwagon. Stop whining about high gas prices, we all have to pay them. Worrying about Caribou does nothing to help the problem.
 
and in case you didn't know, Iraq and Afganistan were shitholes to begin with. Talk about horrible places to live. Atrocious Racism, sexism, and brutal justice were king in those places.
 
I have to contradict you wrong,

This thread has been great. Most of the people have been posting well educated posts with view and opinions to enhance the progression of the discussion. I have changed slightly my opinion by following the posts of Quinny. I have to thank for the input of some, no matter how much I dissagreed.

Now down to you, its people like you that kill these threads, going around criticizing the clash of "leftists" and "rightists" about knowing jack shit that destroy the progress. Your post just pisses off people. It even be subject to deletion, you provide no insight, only complaining. So do me a favor and press the "back" icon on your web browser.

Lets get back to business
 
No, it has to be free market, the last thing we need to do is send a message to the world "keep the oil you drill", do you know how bad that will drive up gas prices? It has to be sold in the free market.

Imagine if one of the oil countries diecided to do what you suggested. Or decided to keep some and only sell to other "chosen"countries. It would drive the price of oil skie high.
 
If you produce oil, you decide what to do with it. Countries that produce oil already keep a portion of it to begin with...after all, they're the ones that are getting it out of the ground. If you produce more...there is more to keep. Now then, would you rather be in more in control or out of control? I prefer the first option, and that is what is gonna ease the cost.
 
It only puts you out of control because the fraction of oil we will produce is nothing compared to everybody else so if we set the standard of keeping our own oil and not putting it on the free market like everybody else it will only hurts us(gas prices) This is a gobal thing. we just cant isolate ourselves.
 
That's not 100% true.. as someone said earlier the high bidder takes the oil. That doesn't necessarily mean that we will be the high bidder.
 
Clearly we're losing focus here. So whats your alternative? We can't switch off of fossil fuels anytime in the near future. And according to a few of you, we can't provide any relief increasing the supply either (which is counter-intuitive no matter how many hairs you'd like to split). So what does this leave us with? Apathy? Just suck it up and let the economy sink while the coast of living goes up? None of you have exactly put forward any kind of ideas.
 
Well, Bush even sugesting we are going to start drilling in America has brought the price of crude oil down over $12 a barrel in 3 days. Its a start, and nobody has come up with anything better.

So in the mean time lets drill, get the cost down and start coming up with alternatives in the mean time.

this way ill be able to still support the family and still go skiing.
 
Thats it? Just have somebody else figure it out for us? This is EXACTLY why the government is as fucked up as it is, people just assume the "intellectuals" are gonna babysit them. If people actually start having a real discussion about things instead of always turning it into a partisan one-or-the-other bashfest...shit will actually get done.

I'm not expecting a 500 page thesis, but a fucking opinion on a solution would be quite fresh.
 
Heard of electricity? Its a great technology. He dont like it because we cant store it very well. But advances are being made...once again by amateurs. This is why it could be the future:

1.Power production can be used by natural forces, such as water, air or nuclear.

2.Electricity is a potential energy transfer. It can easily converted into other forms of energy

3.Electricity can be stored, just that we have to come up with an idea to slow down consumption or loss of charge.

So he have the means, not the knowledge. So we could cut off fossil fuels.
 
It could, but we don't know. Nothing right now is close.

I think you're all forgetting that I said I think we need to both. I'm not against alternatives at all.
 
I totally agree on the partisan thing. But I havent been on the ground for 6 years researching the way our economy works, or how effectively we can change the nature of our status amongst oil producing countries, or have worked to understand the delicate nuances needed to declare what should be done. Experts have a use.

So yeah - post what you've heard should be done. I'll read it and give you my opinion once I'm done with this fucking Japanese homework.
 
We need to do both.

I need to stop this shit for tonight, I can't even piece a damn sentence together.
 
maybe we cant design an engine that runs on something else other than gas, but one thing you can do right now is write your congess man or women that you want to drill now.

It's something we can all do within our means to relieve gas prices immidialtely (just us saying we are going to drill is going to bring down the price of gas, it already has some) and hopefuly if we show that initiative othrs will start getting serious too and design something that wont make us dependant on oil.

Its the best I got.
 
Experience in the field is all well and good. But what makes you think the people in power are talking about if the average person really isn't? Furthermore, what makes you think somebody else is gonna act in your interest?

I already posted my thoughts in the other thread, but I can re-post it or PM it if you'd like. I'm done with this for the night.
 
i didnt read through the whole thread but i read an article the other day that pointed out that drilling in ALL these areas they are suggesting would only lower prices a few cents a gallon and in 5 years would be done. so really. whats the point. i would rather just pay the extra couple cents. not to mention the fact that i have a feeling what is going on here is rather like the enron thing, they are just driving up oil prices... BECAUSE THEY CAN. meanwhile morons by the hundreds come to fill up their gas guzzling expeditions, escelades, etc. untill people stop buying so much its gonna continue to go up.
 
The thing is, there is an outrageous amount of land up there NOT on a wildlife refuge or anything that we are not drilling on. Way more than the land occupied by the refuge. We kinda need to prioritize where we are drilling. We're not that desperate.
 
Talking about it is great, but we need some professional perspectives and ideas to parse through here, if here is where that discussion will take place. For sure, it needs to be talked about, and believe me, after waiting for my pay to be set up through the VA for 9 months, I know that if you arent complaining, nothing will get done. You and I agree that people need to be educated, but seriously, lets not fool ourselves, this is a site dominated by teenagers. I'm doubtful, but would love to be proven wrong. Lets get some articles going.
 
The main fact is its not worth it. Its a wild life refuge. The fact that its been set aside to remain a wildlife refuge and not be used for anything other than that is the main reason we should not drill there. Respect the sanctity of the refuge and what it was set aside for. As someone said we are not that desperate. Theres oil elsewhere and drilling ANWR wont make prices go down. Theres around 100 billion barrels offshore of the united states. Thats where we need to look for our new drilling projects, not in a WILD LIFE REFUGE. Whats next converting Yellowstone's hot springs geysers into geothermal power plants. There are more responsible places to find oil within the US. The other reason there is a push to drill ANWR is the several oil companies who funded the Alyeska cooperation who built the TAPS which is currently only running half full with oil today want to fill the pipe and get the most out of there investment.
 
my point of view is the more oil the betteer. even if we have to sacrifice baby seals. they do nothing for us anyways. fuck them lil blubberin bitchs. i love oil. num num num num
 
problem with number one tho is that most of our electricity comes from coal plants. personally i would love to see the entire country run by nuclear
 
Quebec's power comes from hydro dams. Each dam produces enough power we can sell it to Ontario and New Brunswick and to the states. Nuclear is the was to go, but, we have find a way to artificial produce U238. When it is depleted, we got to find a way to accelerate the rate of decay, or find a use for Thorium.
 
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