Bush / Kerry Debate #2

J.D.

J.D.

Active member
Staff member
I haven't been here in about 5 days, but I wanted to see what people thought... and lo and behold, there is no thread on it! So, thoughts? I think it was very even on Iraq, but that Kerry won on domestic issues, especially jobs. He came across clearer on those issues, and was VERY successful in defending his senatorial record, far more so than I was expecting (I didn't know there WERE that many potential defenses). Bush, however, performed far, far better than last time, and this will probably come out as something close to a draw.

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In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
Bush said he regretted that no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq. Whoops.

Lateralis, on his turn-ons:

'a shaved box, i dont want no fucken rain forest greeting me when i tear off those little cotton panties, id much rather have a nice gaping axe wound that is dripping with wetness while i stare at it in amazement and eat that shit like its elephant food!'
 
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. i missed it. fucking soccer.

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Good Fun With A Hand Gun.

NO MORE BU** SH**
 
He also claimed to have commissioned the hydrogen powered car, and called Kerry 'Senator Kennedy' at one point... but that's not really important. Thoughts on the points that were made? Or was everyone watching baseball?

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
Internets?

Mizzura?

Battling green eyeshades?

Senator Kennedy?

Need some wood?

Legisla-Tors?

let the flame wars begin.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
I was watching out of the corner of my eye while I was cooking I thought bush did suprisingly well this time. Im interested to see how people thought this one turned out aswell. When is the last debate?

We pay our debt sometimes.
 
kerry said he never change his spot on iraq.. i like that one haha

he said he isnt going to raise taxes, well how is he going to pay for all this shit hes talking about. not sure about that one

`
 
yeah bush did do alot better than last time, but think that kerry won. and for that question where bush was supposed to say three things about what he did wrong, he didn't even say one.

'collars up are officially gay, but layering 2 polo shirts is still acceptable'

-ATLANTASKI

'r u sayin we r being censored by da goverment?

fuck pussy dick suckin lips'

-freeze_pooter
 
i only say closing and last question... but ya jd would just tell me im wrong bec he' and egotictical opinion'd bitch

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'15 years old... you cant even take the girl anywhere... you have to get laid in the back of your... bicycle? or bring your parents along... or get a ride... hey mommy, i need a ride over to my bitch's house so i can fuck her' - Josh

'i like whistler, where you can hit on 14 year olds'- Mr Timmmaty D. (telling me he gets indimidated by 30 yrs old women)

$$$$$$NWFT$$$$$$

STENCIL KREW

THE LAB
 
ah, i say bush took this one, if only on asthetics. he was super confident, didnt hem and haw like last time, and all kerry did was rehash what wever heard from him for the last few months. i dont know that he was 'successfull' in defending his record, maybe he came close to a defense of it once, but the fact that bush was able to keep bringing up the record has to go in his favor, as kerrys record wasnt discussed much, if at all in the first debate. kerry failed to exploit bush's position on the embryonic stem cell issue beyond calling it a hard line to draw. bush really gave him an opening there, but kerry kinda blew it. the post debate commentary also said that kerry was quoting severly incorrect job numbers. like... 4 or 500k inaccurate. the prescription drugs issue was weak for the president.

just as i dont think you could have watched last weeks debate and think that bush won, i dont know how anyone could watch this one and give it to kerry. to call it a draw is to be generous to the senator, in my opinion.

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
and if melvs' list is the best you guys can come up with, well, i think that proves my point. ('mizzura' is how anyone from that state says it)

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
I don't feel liek getting into arguements. I could spti and spat back and forth about why i thought kerry won all night, adn it would do no good. we both know that. Tha's why i'm looking at this for entertainment value only. and with that..

wood.gif'


-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
you think kerry won though? seriously? like...won?

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
i only saw like last 10 minutes but bush didnt answer one ladys question and it was annoying, he would'nt admit any wrong decisions beyond 'appointing some wrong people who he wouldnt mention' but i am sure he did better earlier on from what i have heard

I HATE NY PRODUCTIONS
 
Basically it was just people asking specific questions, and Kerry and Bush answering them vaguely so they could reiterate their points they've been making already.

Like how one lady asked Bush to state three mistakes he made and how he fixed them. He just started talking about the war immediatly and kerry followed up with the same exact statement he said in the previous debate, so it was useless.

patj
 
the questions were good and both canidates dodged good questions. If you are debating you can never admit a wrong decision that would be stupid. somone might be pissed for a bit cause you dodged the question but if you awnser it, it will be replayed on tv every single day till election

 
yes, I seriously, honestly think kerry the debate tonight.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
everybody always says kerry changed his mind about the war or w/e and voted for it, then went against that -- it's not true... he did not vote to go to war with Iraq - what he voted for was to give Bush the power to go to war IF AND WHEN IT WAS LOGICAL AND NECESSARY, which it was neither in the situation of the Iraq war - which gives Kerry 100% of the right to say he never supported the war in Iraq in the first place.

'Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil..'
 
huh. thats weird. okay.

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
Anew, once again, I think you're showing more than a little bias. I agree that it would be a tad generous to give an out-and-out victory to Kerry, but no more so than it would be to give the same to Bush. There are arguments to support a victory for each, and I don't think either position is going to be considered absolute.

As for John Kerry defending himself, I'll just say that every criticism that was raised of Kerry's record, he defended himself against, quite well at times. Bush did not do likewise in every case. Was the president more direct and assertive? Yes. Was he more charismatic? That's a matter of perspective. Did he present a clearer plan? Certainly not, although he implied in many cases that things need to continue as they are. I think the difference lies in the method of debate: Bush was direct and personable, and made his arguments to the audience at their level. Kerry brought out fact, figures and statistics to support his.

Now, that fact alone would seem to indicate that Kerry should have more issues with the fact check people; he had more stats to be wrong about. Unfortunately, overall, that wasn't the case. Early in the debate, Bush misrepresented quite a few facts (intelligence voting, 87 billion$ thing AGAIN, and others). So don't pin all the incorrect statements on Kerry, because it simply isn't the case.

Best lines from the debate, according to everyone?

''I own a lumber company? That's news to me...um...want some wood?''

''The president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception.''

''Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2,''

Least effective line that's getting a lot of hype: 'You can run, but you can't hide'. It makes no sense that this is being played up, considering how Kerry defended himself. Kerry didn't really have any buzz-lines, so I can't really criticize him for it, but that whole thing about the 'back-door draft' was a tad ridiculous.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
I only saw the last 10-15 minutes and I do believe that kerry did a better job in expressing himself...

bush looks so clumsy when he tries to explain things...like when he finishes witha response he nids to himself...it's a detail, but it's funny

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EUROPE KICKS ASS

___________________

Useless Fact of the Moment:

'The starfish is one of the only animals who can turn it's stomach inside-out. '

^hahaha ONE of the ONLY ahahaha lmao
 
I think that the president performed leagues better than he did in the precious debate. He exploited some of the holes in Kerrys voting record and brought to the public the idea that 'you need to trust the person that you put into office' and I think that the general public really doesnt know if they can trust Kerry yet. Kerry did recover halfway through the debate and made it a little interesting, but whenever he made a good point on the president, it seemed like the president had a counter on all but one or two of them. I think that it was a draw, but with Bush winning that draw.

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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
 
straight out, i believe bush took it. but more importantly, who was he winking at all the way through the debate?

-Joel

'If Jesus were here, he would command you: stop being and idiot.' -EastCoastPride

'There should be an International ''Slash Your Neighbors SUV Tires'' Day' -con_cept

'I figure excessive drinking got me into this mess, excessive drinking can damn well get me out of it again.' -J.D._May
 
But you really have to watc the whole debate to get an idea of how it progresses. At the outset, it looked like it would be a Bush victory, although he wasn't dominating as Kerry was last time. The rises and falls of each candidate occur throughout, you can't take a 15 minute segment and expect it to represent the debate as a whole.

Strange thing: the Fox News poll currently shows a victory for Kerry according to viewers, who voted 67% Kerry, 32% Bush. CNN viewers, Predictably, show a greater advantage for the senator: 80% to 18%, with the last two going to an even draw. So I guess people saw it as close, but have their reasons for taking one side or another. It's really a matter of perspective, and what you think a 'debate win' consists of. Last week, regardless of the criteria, you'd have had to side with Kerry. Now, not so much.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
J.D.- I am actually agreeing with you on this one to a degree about how Kerry made a defense, but dont you think that the general viewer of the debate definetly left with a sour taste in their mouth about when Kerry's voting record was brought up. I think that the president exploited it well, especially when he tied it to his current behavior. For example, he pointed out all the critical trends in the senators voting record and pointed out that they not only contradicted themselves with his current ticket, but also pointed out that it was what was the 'popular vote' at the time. I thought that it was an effective point for the president in the debate.

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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
 
That ('You change your mind for political reasons') was actually one of the more effective criticisms, and one of Kerry's weaker defenses, namely, that he is consistent in defending his principles. It's a hard criticism to argue against, because it's as hard to disprove as it is to prove (although apparently, Kerry is guilty of Republican accusations until he proves himself innocent). Bush only made that distinct criticism of Kerry's voting once, though. He might have done well to bring it up maybe two more times... enough to impress it on people, but not enough to harp on it, as he did with a few things last debate.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
I'm not sure I'm judging on the right criteria here, because I thought that Kerry trounced Bush. Granted, I didn't watch the first 30 minutes, but I thought that Kerry looked much more relaxed and Bush sounding like he was scolding a preschooler whenever he addressed the American public.

Bush was on the defensive quite a bit. And apparently he can't name three decisions that he now regrets. And his stance on Canadian drugs was a bit weak--apparently all those American-made drugs are wreaking havoc on the Canadians (perhaps that's why they can't pronounce the letter O? Maybe if Americans start taking this medication they'll stay home on weekends to do some work aboot the hoose?)

But I'm extremely biased, so don't take this stuff as gospel. All I'm saying is that Kerry looked like he saw the debate as a stimulating challenge, and Bush looked like he just wanted to get out of there. Frankly, I think the idea of answering questions posed by the general public just doesn't appeal to him.

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See my website, Common Sense: www.ThoseDamnLiberals.org

I'm an atheist/moralist.

My parents were hippies. Both my grandfathers were Mennonite conscientious objectors in WWII. It's complicated.
 
friday night was such a bad night to have it, i completely forgot about it but maybe thats cause i was high

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HIGH NORTH SESSION 4

The Hot Sauce Champion of the World
 
good point. I do think that both candidates have been especially 'harping' on thier respective points. Bush with his 'wrong war, wrong place, wrong time' schpeal and Kerrys constant 'i have a plan' thing without actually explaining what that entails. I for one am glad that the next debate will be strictly on domestic issues. While i think that Iraq is definetly a key issue, I think that people are not taking in other key points, therefore making it a one issue race, which is unhealty for everyone.

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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
 
Yeah, Kerry's 'I have a plan' thing is ineffective when he doesn't have time to explain it. hen he has the whole 2 minutes, or 90 seconds, he tends to spell those plans out pretty well, but when he tries to cover issues in 30 seconds, he can't explain how he plans to do better than the president. Unfortunately, people are too damned lazy to go and find out what he's about. Bush has the advantage that we've had 4 years to see how HE works and, consequently what his plans are; he doesn't seem to be particularly interested in changing anything... which makes sense, I guess, if he can't think of any mistakes he's made (In the past, also, he has said 'I can't think of any mistakes I've made'). Personally, I see plenty of mistakes, and more than a few resultant problems... so I think a change in policy makes sense. I'm not sure the American people agree with me, but I suppose that's their perogative, informed or no.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
watched it for 10 minutes, but it got boring because they were repeating themselves from the last debate, so I changed the channel.

-anna

skiing makes

me really

happy.

spreadin' the love, y0
 
They usually have a re-run later for people who were at work. Flip throught he channels, and check ABC. After tonight, though, you're out of luck.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
I liked when bush was gonna regulate on the moderater, throwin his hands up like 'what you want some, Im the leader of the free world bitch. there are guns pointed at your head right now, I got the bomb i will kill your entire state if you look at me funny again. gimme the mike before I have Arnold terminate you ass.

 
To be completely honest, I think that President Bush's strategy in this one was more to rally his base republicans was smart. The country (just like this site) has pretty much made up thier minds. The undecideds are getting far and few between, and so while Kerry was soft on a couple things (such as his abortion response and his increased talk of his tax cuts) by his party's standards. I think that whoever wins this election is going to be the candidate who gets most of his registered voters out there. Voter turnout will be huge.

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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
 
it was another good debate, i almost watched all of it till i fell asleep for about 15 minutes. the only thing i didnt like was Bush's response to the ladies question about 3 things bush did wrong during his term. i think he tried to alter the question into being about Iraq. which in turn led to Kerry talking about why bush was wrong going to war

Either way it was a good debate and the highlight had to be 'want some wood?'

Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

 
If Bush actually did point out three things that he regretted, that would amount to political suicide. He did what I thought was a smart idea by acknowledging there were some things that he knew could have been done differently, but at the same time not really highlighting anything that would be held against him into the election date.

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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
 
^^ he knew, as does everyone else, that when the question of 'have you made any mistakes' comes up, it is refering to iraq.

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
^exactly

In my opinion Both did a great job. Bush did better than last time and Kerry has been studying debate for years, and is much much better at it than Bush. I really hate when a clear cut winner is announced. I think they should just leave it be, and the voters decide for themselves who was better. Giving someone a victory implies them being better at being president.

As for the actual debate, both candidates dodged questions throughout the entire debate. That's how you get through it in one piece. I really got aggitated when Kerry would constantly go back to criticize Bush's remarks on the PREVIOUS question after he was asked a new one. I think the next debate will be another strong showing for both.

Oh, and Bush did have interest in a lumber company...a few years ago he claimed $84 an investment in one. A whopping number.

 
^yeah, that was a HUGE stretch for kerry to make.

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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
 
oh yes i caught the re-run and there was actually one right after so i got to see the debate in it's fullest.

i really don't see how kerry won that. not saying bush went through with flying colors, but kerry was definately not as great s in the first debate. and bush was much better, he was pretty fantastic in my eyes. i was surprise about that abortion discussion too. i thought bush was gonna loose some serious points in my book.

how i am voting for bush and jsut can't stand listneing to kerry. i put up with him and listne, but if we have him for 4 more years i really am not pay attention to politics. that man just isn't my candidate.

however should he win, which im hoping against. i will support the man and hope he does best for our country. i jsut feel bush can do better.

i don't want to see kerry tax the shit outa small businesses who create jobs for people, that means my step father will get taxed like crazy. bummer.

**Proud member of the d-loc fanclub**

d-loc's wit & wisdom at its best.
 
yea, that was definitely a draw. neither candidate really showed greatness or dominance, and i thought bush improved from the last debate tremendously, and kerry didn't do as well in this one. and those debate numbers seemed 'very' stretched to me, bcz the ones i saw were kerry winning the debate by a very slight margin, and there were 3% more kerry voters on the poll, so i have no frigin clue how u came up w/ like 80% kerry, cuz thats just BS...

Red Sox rule
 
Mercer, Kerry's plans would not adversely affect 96% of small businesses. Don't believe everything the Bush campaign tells you. To be fair, also take Kerry with a grain of salt at times: Though net job loss in the private sector IS at 1.6 million as Kerry said, it's not the case when you coun government jobs. If you do, the net job loss is over 800,000. Although, as a conservative, Bush is being somewhat inconsistent with his base there... I thought you guys hated enlarging government? Anyways.

Guy above me: Polls immediately after the debates tend to be pretty heavily polarized. A 67-32 win doesn't suggest that it was that BIG a win; it probably suggests a narrow victory. Polls now have corrected themselves. The two major ones are the ABC poll, which shows Kerry at 44%, Bush at 41%, and tie at 15%. The gallup poll shows Kerry at 47%, Bush at 43% (not sure where the other 10% went). So the 2nd debate is being polled as a very thin Kerry victory, but again, it depends on the individual. There's no way you could declare a clear winner.

Oh, and one more time: Though Bush would like you to think Kerry is the #1 mos liberal senator, he is, in fact, #11 among those currently in the senate. That's a fair bit right of Ted Kennedy. Just FYI. Edwards, also, is actually right of the average democrat.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
^shit, i was going to vote for Bush but now I guess I have to vote Kerry.

I am not sure this debate will have much of an impact because it seems there is a small portion of the population that is undecided.

 
^That's what they said about the last debate, and they were very, very wrong. There are a large number of soft voters, apparently, who are persuadable either way, whoever they align themselves with currently. CNN estimated the number at almost 15%.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
newschooler45, a lot of us are voting bush. sorry pal. use your head, it jsut makes sense.

non ethe less. i can't vote for kerry, i don't agree with so many of his statements. not to mention it's always all aobut him.

this guy is voting for me, that guy is voting for me! why you ask? because i have a plan!

he's a anme dropper, you think i give a shit if some guy thinks kerry is better than bush. no i do not. this is my vote and it will only be effected by my brain, not anyone elses. come on kerry, don't waste your time name dropping and tell us what your fucking plan is in depth. it's rediculous.

'i have a plan, go read johnkerry.com....ramble till end of time'

a quick question: i rmeember bush saying something about how one of john kerry's plans wouldn't work, and then kerry backed it by saying the press said it would work. explain? what was up with that little argument. and who was bush's man that disagree'd with kerry's plan?

**Proud member of the d-loc fanclub**

d-loc's wit & wisdom at its best.
 
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