Bush - Hitler??

it's all about driving up the cost of oil. The people in the oil industry have their right hand man in office now. Have you noticed that the price of gas has been asternomical since the new administration took office, the many house hold items we need for survival those prices have risen as well. These are all things that the folks in power have the most vested interest. We have elected someone who doesn't know the first thing about struggling or making due because the cash follow isn't happening at the moment. So is Bush like Hitler I suppose in some regards, keeping middle america in our place. We have enough money to have a thought but not enough to do anything.

 
The Libertarian Party is committed to America's heritage of freedom:

- Individual liberty and personal responsibility

- A free-market economy of abundance and prosperity

- A foreign policy of non-intervention, peace, and free trade.

We welcome your participation and support.

www.lp.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FUCK FUCK FUCK mother mother fuck mother mother fuck fuck mother fuck mother fuck noich noich noich one two one two three four noich noich noich smokin weed smokin weed doin coke drinkin beer drinkin beers beers beers rollin fattys smokin blunts who smokes the blunts we smoke the blunts rollin blunts and smokin....

'uhh let me get a nicklebag'

fifteen bucks little man put that shit in my hand if that money doesn't show then you owe me owe me owe. - J and SB Strike back
 
August 8, 2002

Bush’s plan to launch invasion of Iraq is totally unjustified, Libertarians say

WASHINGTON, DC -- President Bush’s unfolding plan to invade Iraq is totally unjustified, Libertarians say, because that nation poses no direct threat to the United States.

“Before the president risks the life of even one American soldier, he needs a reason, not an excuse,” said Steve Dasbach, Libertarian Party executive director. “Unless the United States is at risk of an Iraqi military attack, Bush’s proposal to invade that nation should be denounced for what it is: reckless foreign interventionism.”

Yet a full-blown war against Iraq appears inevitable, according to administration sources, after reports on Wednesday that all of Bush’s top national security advisors agree on the need to topple the Iraqi dictator. The most likely scenario involves using 200,000 U.S. ground, air, and naval troops to invade Iraq as early as the winter of 2003.

But one crucial fact has been ignored in the debate, Libertarians say: Saddam has not committed an act of aggression against the United States.

“Wars that are not defensive are merely acts of aggression against sovereign nations,” Dasbach said. “And wars that are launched by presidents, rather than formally declared by Congress as the Constitution requires, are illegal.”

Moreover, while the U.S. government has made vague claims that the Iraqi regime has terrorist links, it has produced no public evidence specifically linking Saddam to the September 11 attacks, Dasbach pointed out.

“Since Bush has no legitimate reason for waging war on Iraq, he has cobbled together a list of accusations, none of which provide sufficient justification for invading a sovereign nation and risking American lives,” he said. For example, Bush claims that:

* Saddam Hussein is a ruthless dictator. “True enough, but there are dozens of ruthless dictators around the globe, starting with Fidel Castro; the leaders of Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia; the Chinese communists; and various tyrants sprinkled throughout Africa, Asia, and Latin America,” Dasbach said. “Is Bush going to send troops to topple them all?”

According to Freedom House, an organization that tracks the status of democracy around the world, only 120 of the world’s 192 nations are electoral democracies, Dasbach noted. “So unless Mr. Bush plans to launch strikes on the 72 other captive nations, he owes the American people an explanation as to why they should fear Iraq more than other despotic regimes,” Dasbach said.

* Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. “According to the Pentagon, 12 countries have nuclear weapons programs, 13 have biological weapons, 16 have chemical weapons and 28 have ballistic missiles,” Dasbach said. “So what makes Saddam’s chemical weapons more menacing than, say, Pakistan’s nuclear bomb?

* Saddam supports terrorism. “According to the State Department’s official list of terrorist sponsors, 45 nations have active al Qaeda cells,” Dasbach said. “So even if terrorists are operating inside Iraq, that in itself makes Iraq no more of a threat to the United States than Malaysia, Somalia, or the Philippines.”

The bottom line is that Bush’s wide-ranging indictment against Saddam Hussein is missing one key element: proof that Iraq poses a direct threat to the United States, Dasbach said.

“Instead of struggling to find a justification for war, Mr. Bush should be looking for a way to avoid war – and avoid the needless loss of American lives that could result.”

www.lp.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FUCK FUCK FUCK mother mother fuck mother mother fuck fuck mother fuck mother fuck noich noich noich one two one two three four noich noich noich smokin weed smokin weed doin coke drinkin beer drinkin beers beers beers rollin fattys smokin blunts who smokes the blunts we smoke the blunts rollin blunts and smokin....

'uhh let me get a nicklebag'

fifteen bucks little man put that shit in my hand if that money doesn't show then you owe me owe me owe. - J and SB Strike back
 
jibs may have been the only person on this topic to be somewhat right... Saddam is an evil dictator.... all he has to do is let weapons inspectors in and it will stop this whole thing... but obviously he's not goin to because IS engineering weapons of mass destruction... Also, he prays on poor, helpless palestinian families by offering them 25,000$ if one of their sons becomes a suicide bomber... how sick is that?? he pays for preteens to lose their lifes for a cause that is pointless because the jews and palestinians will always be at war

Another thing, the U.S. is not at fault for providing Israel w/ apaches and other weapons.. its not like the u.s. GAVE the jews the weapons.. the u.ss sold the weaponns... and back the beginning argument, bush is nothing like hitler in any way watsoever... to even think that there is a comparison is ridiculous.. If bush was like hitler... wyy wouldnm't the U.S. take over Afganistan after we destroyed the taliban??? Hitler never would have given a country back after he destroyed their military and govt. Bush is not set on world domination... hes set on prottecting american lives and freedoms.. he just may habve a fucked up way of showing it... these were just my thouhgts

 
I forgot this earlier but, Bush is no Hitler. If he was why wouldn't he have killed off all the towel heads and camel jockies that are in Afghanistan. Sure some innocent people might have lost their life, but did Bush order U.S. troops to line up all the Afghani's and have target practice with their heads or did he order them to be placed in concentration camps and then tortured, NO. That is one of the most ludicrous comparisons I think I have heard in a long time. No offense to anybody but that is whack.

Oh and yeah there was a president that went 6 months without blowing anything up. He was a big pussy whose foriegn policy sucked, his name was Clinton. Remember the guy. The guy that had the chance to kill Bin Laden and Hussein but was such a pussy and cared to much about his place in history that he didn't. Now if he did that would we still be here talking about this. Probaly not. Would thousands of innocent people have died at the WTC, in Pennslyvania and at the Pentagon. Nah, probaly not. And my uncle would still be here to tell me how he shot that damn Iraqi in between the eyes in the Gulf War.

 
I agree w/ the fact that Bush is much more like Stalin. Stalin had one oppositional force after Lenin died and that was Trotsky. Trotsky was a brilliant military tactician, but couldn't compete w/ Stalin politically. And after Trotsky lost his commisar of war position he tried to form a leftist opposition but was kicked out of the Politburo. However Trotsky was bent on world wide communist revolution whereas Stalin's objectives were more domesticated for Russia based on industrialization. What's going to keep Bush from ruining American foreign policy and hopefully prevent this war is a successful leftist opposition in our case.

 
Saddam Huessein might support terrorism? HE IS A TERRORIST. I would hardly compare George Bush to Hitler. Thats like comparing a T-Ball player to Greg Maddux.

'Its like a piece of god in my hands'-Grayson Gordon

Yankees Suck
 
remember the guy before clinton? the original bush? as I remember it he left saddam in office. he didn't do anything about bin laden either. anyone else read the article in last week's Time? about how before sept 11, the bush administration didn't do jack shit about bin laden or al qaeda. clinton's NSA sandy berger had a plan to go into afghanistan and uproot al qaeda and the taliban last fall. no one in the new administration took them seriously. bush had the opportunity to make a pre emptive strike and didn't. he's no better than clinton

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Hehe ski2824... did you just say 'Peace and non-intervention?' Sounds good to me!

Anyway, to all those war-mongers out there... is blowing Afghanistan to bits going to stop terrorism? Is blowing Iraq to bits going to do it... or maybe we should throw in the West Bank, Gaza, Iran, Syria, and Algeria as well. I guarantee it won't, because if we do I'll be the first to strap a bomb onto myself and push my way into the Republican National Convention.

Emily Bennett is a Lizard King-loving Sex Goddess!

'I don't know what's gonna happen, man, but I want to get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames!' -Jim Morrison
 
I'm about half of a war monger, but I'm not being insulting to anyone when I say this but I would like to hear what people think would be good feasible alternatives to stopping terrorism.

 
whoa, haha, I go away for a couple days skiing and this turns into a full on debate! wikkid!

ski2824, you condradict yourself. You said that terrorists attack the US, on US soil, killing US innocents. Sure, they did. And then you say so what if American armed forces kill 800 innocent civilians overseas. What's that then? How is that not terrorism? Is it somehow different if your country is the one doing the killing??

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

'We are slaves to the labor of love that winter brings us every year.'

*I love Matty Enns*
 
Did not make those connections with George W. Bush, but I made the connection between Hitler and British Columbia's premier who's name I can't remember right now... Is it Gordon Campbell? Yeah, I think that's his name.

'My soul is a like a ruby

And I threw it in the earth

But now my hands are bleeding

From scrabbling in the dirt

And I look up to the heavens

And a light is on my face

I never never never

Thought I'd find a state of grace' - Joy by Mick Jagger
 
Someone mentioned above that the US used to support bin laden. So for those of you who don't know the story....It's true. Back in the 80s the USA gave bin laden and the taliban weapons, funds and training to keep communist russia from taking them over and gaining control over the oil reserves. So much of his power and the power of al quada was helped along by USA in the 80s. Once the Russian threat was gone, the USA stopped the funding, and the taliban used the weapons and training to later overthrow afghanistan and support al quada.

Or something to that extent.....

___

Learning a new trick is like swimming in the ocean. When you feel the water it's cold and uncomfortable, but once you're in, how sweet it is.

 
That's correct, jibs, although we didn't 'officially' support any part of the Afghan civil war or Russo-Afghan war after the U.S. ambassador was assassinated. The CIA was still pretty heavy into supporting the mujahideen (sp?), who later turned into al-Queda.

Bush-Stalin isn't a good comparison, though, either, because while Stalin actually had wicked ambition, so much so that he killed or ran off political opponents, all Bush seems to do is lose money and get elected.

Emily Bennett is a Lizard King-loving Sex Goddess!

'I don't know what's gonna happen, man, but I want to get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames!' -Jim Morrison
 
I think the comparison to Stalin is relevant to the maner in which the administration has rallied patriotic support. This was discussed on a different thread so let's not get into the specifics here. The with us or against us attitude is very much like Stalin's policy towards administrators policies toward the Politburo.

 
Tim, there is a difference. When we were attacked it was unprovoked and for the sole purpose of killing civilains. The civilian casualties in afganastan were part of a military responce and weren't malicious.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,

Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free, now now.

And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,

You know feeling good was good enough for me,

Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee. - Janis Joplin
 
Plus we took 2200 more.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,

Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free, now now.

And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,

You know feeling good was good enough for me,

Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee. - Janis Joplin
 
Yeah I guess you are kind of right but un-provoked or not, it's still innocents being killed in an act of war, no matter who does it.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

'We are slaves to the labor of love that winter brings us every year.'

*I love Matty Enns*
 
there's a difference between intentional and unintentional killings. and how many of those 'civilians' were fighting against the US? probaly a good amount.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,

Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free, now now.

And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,

You know feeling good was good enough for me,

Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee. - Janis Joplin
 
Yet they still greeted America with pretty open arms when their armed forces waltzed in. Most of them were pretty stoked to get the Taliban out of the way. But then again, it's pretty hard to have a war without civilian casualties.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

'We are slaves to the labor of love that winter brings us every year.'

*I love Matty Enns*
 
Yah..civilian casualties are as much a part of war as 'friendly fire' (so says the big cheese down south). For the most part, it's probably unavoidable. Accidents happen, i just don't like the 'accidents' that kill innocent afghans are being justified by because American's were killed by a terrorist organization from the same country.

___

Learning a new trick is like swimming in the ocean. When you feel the water it's cold and uncomfortable, but once you're in, how sweet it is.

 
i remember seeing pictures of kids with automatic weapons and people burning the US flag and worshiping bin laden

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,

Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free, now now.

And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,

You know feeling good was good enough for me,

Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee. - Janis Joplin
 
Agreed, gravteck.

Emily Bennett is a Lizard King-loving Sex Goddess!

'I don't know what's gonna happen, man, but I want to get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames!' -Jim Morrison
 
What it comes down to for me is that America is far to concerned with acting unilateraly against Iraq. Unless it can justify this action as presenting a 'clear and definate' threat to itself any invasion of Iraq is in violation of international law and should technicaly lead to sanctions from the un.

This will never happen. However the international reaction if the USA does push ahead and invade Iraq will be interesting.

For the record saddam deserves everthing he gets, I just don't think the action is justified at the moment.

Freshies for a week after a dump? Temple Basin - Hell Yeah!

 
I think I'd have to agree with you dude. They should've killed saddam when they had the chance I reckon.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

'We are slaves to the labor of love that winter brings us every year.'

*I love Matty Enns*
 
Ski2824- Provocation isn't really concrete term, it kind of depends on your prospective. A good deal of the people in the world (not just in the middle east, but even in Western Europe and nations that are allies of the U.S) think that American actions provoked the actions by Bin Laden. U.S. support of Israel in killing Palestinians, the sanctions that have caused the deaths of innocent Iraqis, and even how the U.S. abondoned Bin Laden and other mujahideen after it was through using them to fight the Soviets. I think our leaders saying the attacks were 'unprovoked' just makes things so much worse, every action is at least somewhat provoked no matter what, its like little kids fighting, he hit me so i hit him so he hit me, it gets ridiculous. some nation (hopefully the U.S.) just has to step up and say we are above that and we are going to stop the string of provocations.

'There are only two powers in the world...the sword of the oppressor and the spirit of the oppressed. In the long run, the sword is always defeated by the spirit.'
 
Good call g-dubs. The US keeps leaving out the things it does to provoke attacks. America's problem is that it likes to stick it's nose in everyone elses business...and then expects to be left unscathed. It's not likely. If they want to pick sides in fights such as the fight between the isralis and the palistinians or using other countries to protect american intrests (russo-afghani war, protecting the oil reserves), then they are considered involved and should expect the possibility of an attack.

___

Learning a new trick is like swimming in the ocean. When you feel the water it's cold and uncomfortable, but once you're in, how sweet it is.

 
you know it's kind of hard to have a debate when it's me against everyone else.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,

Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free, now now.

And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,

You know feeling good was good enough for me,

Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee. - Janis Joplin
 
Yah..you're right..it is a little one sided. Aight i'll join the dark side.

BUSH MAN! MAN SHOOT GUN! BUSH KILL ALL! BUSH RULE WORLD! ALL WORSHIP BUSH!

___

Learning a new trick is like swimming in the ocean. When you feel the water it's cold and uncomfortable, but once you're in, how sweet it is.

 
haha, wait...i think i suck at the dark side. I'm gonna jump back over the fence.

___

Learning a new trick is like swimming in the ocean. When you feel the water it's cold and uncomfortable, but once you're in, how sweet it is.

 
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