Bootfitter incident

[ClosesChide]

Hi, just wanted to say that I'm glad I listened to everyones suggestion to visit a bootfitter and get something that fits rather than getting a "freestyle" boot online, ended up with this vacuum Fischer, Antoni (the bootfitter) told me that it is preferred to not put it in a vacuum and to ski for a few days with the boot as it is to get an understanding of the pressure points and then vacuum fit it.

Just a thank you to the newschoolers community

 

[onenerdykid]

Awesome to hear you found a good starting point for your needs.

Just be aware that "vacuum" isn't the answer to all customization issues. It makes things tighter - that's what it does. Too many boot fitters use it as way to solve every problem they encounter and it often ends up making the problem worse. It's not a fix-all for "customization" in general. That's just not how it works.

So, as with all ski boots - address the area that is the problem. Need more toe room? Get the toe box lengthened. Need more medial ankle space? Stretch there. Don't put a boot in an oven that doesn't need it and don't vacuum a boot that doesn't need it.

 

[Balzberg]

Awesome to hear you found a good starting point for your needs.

Just be aware that "vacuum" isn't the answer to all customization issues. It makes things tighter - that's what it does. Too many boot fitters use it as way to solve every problem they encounter and it often ends up making the problem worse. It's not a fix-all for "customization" in general. That's just not how it works.

So, as with all ski boots - address the area that is the problem. Need more toe room? Get the toe box lengthened. Need more medial ankle space? Stretch there. Don't put a boot in an oven that doesn't need it and don't vacuum a boot that doesn't need it.

This is good advice

 

[tri_photo]

Finding a bootfitter that knows what they're doing is like finding an oasis in the desert. When I got fit for my boots a few years back, it was really refreshing to see the homie grab boots from all across the spectrum (different brands, flexes, etc), and spend as much time as I needed figuring out the pros / cons of each boot I tried on, until we landed on the right option. Haven't needed to get new boots since.

 

[tdollo]

So the opposite of an incident? A Success?

 

[.nasty]

Awesome to hear you found a good starting point for your needs.

Just be aware that "vacuum" isn't the answer to all customization issues. It makes things tighter - that's what it does. Too many boot fitters use it as way to solve every problem they encounter and it often ends up making the problem worse. It's not a fix-all for "customization" in general. That's just not how it works.

So, as with all ski boots - address the area that is the problem. Need more toe room? Get the toe box lengthened. Need more medial ankle space? Stretch there. Don't put a boot in an oven that doesn't need it and don't vacuum a boot that doesn't need it.

Same goes for surefoot, injecting foam right off the bat is not an end all solution. Most non-advanced level skiers have huge issues with it.

 

[Knapzach]

 

[ClosesChide]

View attachment 1065412

it do be like that, i really wanted the Tom Wallisch boots

 

[EvanMeyer]

So the opposite of an incident? A Success?

I was expecting to read something negative based on the title

 

[PimpChimpin]

View attachment 1065412

Fulltilts do look best and are the most comfortable. May not be the best performing boot though

 

[bennwithtwons]

Testing FTs and kryptons back to back, the dalbellos felt better. Just a more refined fit and feel. But obviously a lot of people get along great with FTs, and they do look much better, for whatever that’s worth.

Fulltilts do look best and are the most comfortable. May not be the best performing boot though

 

[supremeblientele]

Fulltilts do look best and are the most comfortable. May not be the best performing boot though

i swear the quality has gone down with K2 fl3x man..... Im on some sammy c diverges rn and they seem to be taking way more damage then my last pair which were made under the full tilt branding.

still good boots tho, super comfortable, solid stiff 120 flex, and ski great. just noticing a lot more damage on this pair

 

[tomPietrowski]

Nothing at all changed, not the factory, production, the plastic, nothing. So if they are getting beat up more it’s probably just you riding harder.

i swear the quality has gone down with K2 fl3x man..... Im on some sammy c diverges rn and they seem to be taking way more damage then my last pair which were made under the full tilt branding.

still good boots tho, super comfortable, solid stiff 120 flex, and ski great. just noticing a lot more damage on this pair

 

[.nasty]

i swear the quality has gone down with K2 fl3x man..... Im on some sammy c diverges rn and they seem to be taking way more damage then my last pair which were made under the full tilt branding.

still good boots tho, super comfortable, solid stiff 120 flex, and ski great. just noticing a lot more damage on this pair

Yeahhhhhhh that's in your head man. haha They're exactly the same as Tom said.

 

[supremeblientele]

Nothing at all changed, not the factory, production, the plastic, nothing. So if they are getting beat up more it’s probably just you riding harder.

this is the first time ive snapped the cable that holds the middle buckle in place . the cable appears to be thinner too

 

[tomPietrowski]

Again, its exactly the same. You would have snapped the cable on a Full Tilt if you broke it on them this season. luckily though its an easy fix.

this is the first time ive snapped the cable that holds the middle buckle in place . the cable appears to be thinner too

 

[supremeblientele]

Again, its exactly the same. You would have snapped the cable on a Full Tilt if you broke it on them this season. luckily though its an easy fix.

yeah luckily i still had my fulltilts laying around so the swap didnt cost me any money... frankenboots ftw

 

[supremeblientele]

could also be that this pair is all black so the damage appears a lot more noticeable

 

[Newsheepers]

dang it, another boot fitting gone right I hope you get a huge bone spur like me, you are blessed

**This post was edited on Feb 27th 2023 at 3:43:40pm

 

[DominatorJacques]

View attachment 1065387

Hi, just wanted to say that I'm glad I listened to everyones suggestion to visit a bootfitter and get something that fits rather than getting a "freestyle" boot online, ended up with this vacuum Fischer, Antoni (the bootfitter) told me that it is preferred to not put it in a vacuum and to ski for a few days with the boot as it is to get an understanding of the pressure points and then vacuum fit it.

Just a thank you to the newschoolers community

Once you get a "good" custom fit, you never go back to not having a boot "fit"! Congratulations, and I hope it all works out in the end. Most of the time, additional tweaks are needed after you work them in a while. Most fitters do the extra tweaks at no additional charge.

 

[Way*Mo]

Extreme custom boot fitting and custom insoles are by and large the biggest gimmick the ski industry has ever convinced the general populous they need.

General advice from knowledgeable staff is great to make sure you are in the right size. Each manufacturers boots or boot lines fit different shaped feet (e.g. narrow heel, high instep, wide forefoot, etc.) and getting some general advice about which might fit you best is also good. Then just try on boots and spend time in each. Unless you have extremely unique feet, or an actual pathology (e.g. collapsed arches) you likely don't need custom footbeds, liners, shells, etc. An odd spot fix, maybe. Your skiing will not be improved dramatically with a $250 dollar footbed.

The fact that shops still sell this shit likes it the end all be all makes me lose all respect for them. Be upfront about it. They are pricey add ons that might improve comfort or performance marginally for most people. That doesn't mean people shouldn't try if they want to, but make sure expectations are in line with reality.

 

[profa_212]

Extreme custom boot fitting and custom insoles are by and large the biggest gimmick the ski industry has ever convinced the general populous they need.

General advice from knowledgeable staff is great to make sure you are in the right size. Each manufacturers boots or boot lines fit different shaped feet (e.g. narrow heel, high instep, wide forefoot, etc.) and getting some general advice about which might fit you best is also good. Then just try on boots and spend time in each. Unless you have extremely unique feet, or an actual pathology (e.g. collapsed arches) you likely don't need custom footbeds, liners, shells, etc. An odd spot fix, maybe. Your skiing will not be improved dramatically with a $250 dollar footbed.

The fact that shops still sell this shit likes it the end all be all makes me lose all respect for them. Be upfront about it. They are pricey add ons that might improve comfort or performance marginally for most people. That doesn't mean people shouldn't try if they want to, but make sure expectations are in line with reality.

This is so wrong it hurts.

If you are riding in any advanced or aggressive way, properly fitted boots will improve your experience in every single way, and are far more important than any other piece of gear. When you are in properly fit boots they will feel like an extension of your foot/lower leg instead of a boot.

 

[.nasty]

Extreme custom boot fitting and custom insoles are by and large the biggest gimmick the ski industry has ever convinced the general populous they need.

General advice from knowledgeable staff is great to make sure you are in the right size. Each manufacturers boots or boot lines fit different shaped feet (e.g. narrow heel, high instep, wide forefoot, etc.) and getting some general advice about which might fit you best is also good. Then just try on boots and spend time in each. Unless you have extremely unique feet, or an actual pathology (e.g. collapsed arches) you likely don't need custom footbeds, liners, shells, etc. An odd spot fix, maybe. Your skiing will not be improved dramatically with a $250 dollar footbed.

The fact that shops still sell this shit likes it the end all be all makes me lose all respect for them. Be upfront about it. They are pricey add ons that might improve comfort or performance marginally for most people. That doesn't mean people shouldn't try if they want to, but make sure expectations are in line with reality.

The “general populous” aren’t buying custom footbeds. Also, what is extreme custom boot fitting? Sounds cool!

 

[ClosesChide]

The “general populous” aren’t buying custom footbeds. Also, what is extreme custom boot fitting? Sounds cool!

Extreme might be the inner boot injected with some liquid with your foot inside to take the shape, then grinding the outer shell and having custom soles, idk if it goes further than that

 

[Way*Mo]

Dude, you’ve drank so much kook-aid you can’t see the truth.

I’ve personally had had every type of custom liner except Zip-fits and every brand of custom insole. Ive hade multiple of each all molded or fit by the ‘best’ custom boot people in the Salt Lake Valley. None of them made my skiing noticeably better, and in more than one occasion they made my situation worse. On top of this, I am not the only one. I have multiple friends who have had similar experiences. This is not just an n of one. You know what I’ve had the most success with? Stock shells with softer foam intuition liners that I DONT mold, but ski into shape.

And I hate hate hate to be that ‘claim’ dude, but I will assure you I am skiing in a plenty advanced manner.

Finally, do you know how many pros are in stock boots that probably aren’t the best ‘fit’ for them. They often have to ride what their sponsors send them, not they they would choose. They all do fine.

Again, people can and should buy all this stuff it it’s what they want. But shop people and bootfitters also need to be realistic about what it is, marginal gains at best.

This is so wrong it hurts.

If you are riding in any advanced or aggressive way, properly fitted boots will improve your experience in every single way, and are far more important than any other piece of gear. When you are in properly fit boots they will feel like an extension of your foot/lower leg instead of a boot.

 

[Way*Mo]

I’ve watched dozens of ~10 day a season recreational skiers get sold $200+ footbeds at reputable nationally known shops from Utah to Alaska. All with the pretense it’ll revolutionize their skiing.

’Extreme’ boot fitting would be recreational skiers getting sold boots with custom footbeds, custom liner (foam injected), or vacuum shells off the wall for their one ski vacation a year.

if you have a large bone spur or similar, sure get a spot punch. If you have collapsed arches, get footbeds. Beyond that, it’s largely snake-oil

The “general populous” aren’t buying custom footbeds. Also, what is extreme custom boot fitting? Sounds cool!

 

[ClosesChide]

I don't think there are any pros that don't use fully custom boots, the brands that they are sponsored by are more than capable of giving them the boot that is perfectly made for their feet

Dude, you’ve drank so much kook-aid you can’t see the truth.

I’ve personally had had every type of custom liner except Zip-fits and every brand of custom insole. Ive hade multiple of each all molded or fit by the ‘best’ custom boot people in the Salt Lake Valley. None of them made my skiing noticeably better, and in more than one occasion they made my situation worse. On top of this, I am not the only one. I have multiple friends who have had similar experiences. This is not just an n of one. You know what I’ve had the most success with? Stock shells with softer foam intuition liners that I DONT mold, but ski into shape.

And I hate hate hate to be that ‘claim’ dude, but I will assure you I am skiing in a plenty advanced manner.

Finally, do you know how many pros are in stock boots that probably aren’t the best ‘fit’ for them. They often have to ride what their sponsors send them, not they they would choose. They all do fine.

Again, people can and should buy all this stuff it it’s what they want. But shop people and bootfitters also need to be realistic about what it is, marginal gains at best.

 

[onenerdykid]

I’ve watched dozens of ~10 day a season recreational skiers get sold $200+ footbeds at reputable nationally known shops from Utah to Alaska. All with the pretense it’ll revolutionize their skiing.

’Extreme’ boot fitting would be recreational skiers getting sold boots with custom footbeds, custom liner (foam injected), or vacuum shells off the wall for their one ski vacation a year.

if you have a large bone spur or similar, sure get a spot punch. If you have collapsed arches, get footbeds. Beyond that, it’s largely snake-oil

I have fit thousands of boots. I have solved thousands of people's issues and made their skiing more comfortable. Do certain footbeds or footbeds in general not work well for you? Totally possible and fine. But to say that it doesn't work and doesn't help the vast majority of people is a complete and utter falsehood that has zero data to support it. You personal and subjective experiences are simply an outlier in the grand scheme of "how to make someone comfortable in a ski boot" and the odds are totally against you if you tell people you can be comfortable in a ski boot without proper footbeds and boot fitting.

If you were to open a ski shop and sell boots without footbeds and without custom fitting, your shop would not solve people's fit issues. And that would be a fact. You would go out of business simply because you aren't solving people's needs & issues they encounter.

Now, does everyone absolutely need a custom footbed, a foam injection liner, sole canting and stance balancing to go skiing? No - not everyone needs all of that. But there are certain basics involved with human physiology and the physics of skiing that will say if you do certain things (like get a footbed) then your chances of having comfortable day on the slopes just dramatically increased. And that is what it is all about - increasing the odds that someone will be happy in their boot and there are cause & effect solutions involved that will increase the success rate of that happening.

 

[Way*Mo]

Did you not read what I said? Certain issues require specialized boot fitting. We agree on that.

Where I don’t agree is that your $200+ custom footbed is required or makes a huge difference for the vast majority of people.

and maybe my shop would go out of business, but that’s more likely because I’m not fleecing my customers by selling them $5 bucks worth of foam and 30 minute mold time for a mark up of 400%

I have fit thousands of boots. I have solved thousands of people's issues and made their skiing more comfortable. Do certain footbeds or footbeds in general not work well for you? Totally possible and fine. But to say that it doesn't work and doesn't help the vast majority of people is a complete and utter falsehood that has zero data to support it. You personal and subjective experiences are simply an outlier in the grand scheme of "how to make someone comfortable in a ski boot" and the odds are totally against you if you tell people you can be comfortable in a ski boot without proper footbeds and boot fitting.

If you were to open a ski shop and sell boots without footbeds and without custom fitting, your shop would not solve people's fit issues. And that would be a fact. You would go out of business simply because you aren't solving people's needs & issues they encounter.

Now, does everyone absolutely need a custom footbed, a foam injection liner, sole canting and stance balancing to go skiing? No - not everyone needs all of that. But there are certain basics involved with human physiology and the physics of skiing that will say if you do certain things (like get a footbed) then your chances of having comfortable day on the slopes just dramatically increased. And that is what it is all about - increasing the odds that someone will be happy in their boot and there are cause & effect solutions involved that will increase the success rate of that happening.

 

[ClosesChide]

is getting a fully custom boot an upgrade? yes

is it worth the money? depends

is it necessary? no

you choose