Boot lean

[who_is_broid]

Ive skied full tilt park boots my entire life and I'm now looking to be able to through stuff in the backcountry and ski bigger lines outside the resort but no boots feel like they ski aggressively enough to ski confidently. My favorite thing about full tilt is the aggressive forward lean, which no AT boots I have treid have, has anyone else had this problem?

 

[maaattt]

I don't think I've ever heard full-tilt described with an aggressive forward lean tbh

 

[who_is_broid]

I don't think I've ever heard full-tilt described with an aggressive forward lean tbh

Drop kicks have an 18 degree forward lean with the shim inserted, most out of any non race boot I know

 

[tomPietrowski]

Is the Ascendant too wide for you? If it is then try the mindbender possibly. You can set the forward lean to 17 degrees which is very close to the FT forward lean. Jake carny actually rode the Mindbender as his park boot rather than the recon as he was able to set the forward lean much closer to what he was used to in Full Tilt.

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

You can adjust the forward lean of boots

 

[maaattt]

Drop kicks have an 18 degree forward lean with the shim inserted, most out of any non race boot I know

Thats cool, guess it's been a really long time since I was last in full tilt

 

[who_is_broid]

What is the adjustment to on the ascendents?

You can adjust the forward lean of boots

 

[who_is_broid]

Good to know, thank you!

Is the Ascendant too wide for you? If it is then try the mindbender possibly. You can set the forward lean to 17 degrees which is very close to the FT forward lean. Jake carny actually rode the Mindbender as his park boot rather than the recon as he was able to set the forward lean much closer to what he was used to in Full Tilt.

 

[mrk127]

You can adjust the forward lean of boots

*of some boots

 

[tomPietrowski]

What is the adjustment to on the ascendents?

The ascendant can be adjusted from 10 - 12.5 - 15 degrees. Add in the Velcro spoiler and you can get an additional 2 degrees. So the full range is 10-17, which is the same as the mindbender hence why I also mentioned that boot.

 

[.nasty]

I don't think I've ever heard full-tilt described with an aggressive forward lean tbh

FT has had one of the higher degrees of forward lean for quite some time, other than race boots anyway.

 

[cydwhit]

Atomic Hawx come with 15° of forward lean, which, if you're into spoilers, you can probably get that extra two degrees no problem.

Scarpa Maestrale is adjustable from 14-18°

La Sportiva Synchro is adjustable to 16° which again, with the spoiler Tom mentioned gets you to 18°

Roxa R3 comes with 15° of forward lean, plus your spoiler gets you 17°

Many touring boots are in the realm of your Full Tilts as long as you add a spoiler, so I wouldn't sweat it too hard.

**This post was edited on Nov 17th 2021 at 5:22:40pm

 

[onenerdykid]

Atomic Hawx come with 15° of forward lean, which, if you're into spoilers, you can probably get that extra two degrees no problem.

**This post was edited on Nov 17th 2021 at 5:22:40pm

That is the out-of-the-box forward lean, and most Hawx boots have the ability to change the actual cuff angle to 13° or 17° (so 3 settings in total) before you add cuff spoilers.

 

[sashko]

That is the out-of-the-box forward lean, and most Hawx boots have the ability to change the actual cuff angle to 13° or 17° (so 3 settings in total) before you add cuff spoilers.

can you adjust the forward lean on Hawx XTD?

 

[onenerdykid]

can you adjust the forward lean on Hawx XTD?

Hawx Ultra XTD comes with two settings: 15° (standard) and 17°, there is an aftermarket 13° option as well

- unscrew the ski/walk mechanism completely, pull the cuff back, flip the metal mounting plate to the desired angle (the number you can read is the setting you will get)

Hawx Prime XTD has all three settings: 13°, 15° (standard), and 17°

-loosen the ski/walk mechanism (do not remove completely), slide it up or down into whichever setting you want

 

[sashko]

Thanx for info!

While I'm fine with 15, it's always good to how to change it if neede)

Hawx Ultra XTD comes with two settings: 15° (standard) and 17°, there is an aftermarket 13° option as well

- unscrew the ski/walk mechanism completely, pull the cuff back, flip the metal mounting plate to the desired angle (the number you can read is the setting you will get)

Hawx Prime XTD has all three settings: 13°, 15° (standard), and 17°

-loosen the ski/walk mechanism (do not remove completely), slide it up or down into whichever setting you want

**This post was edited on Nov 18th 2021 at 9:38:00am

 

[who_is_broid]

The ascendant can be adjusted from 10 - 12.5 - 15 degrees. Add in the Velcro spoiler and you can get an additional 2 degrees. So the full range is 10-17, which is the same as the mindbender hence why I also mentioned that boot.

what is the mechanism to adjust other than the spoiler?

 

[tominiemenmaa]

What are the pro's & cons of adding forward lean to ski boots?

 

[onenerdykid]

What are the pro's & cons of adding forward lean to ski boots?

Rules of Forward Lean Club:

1. You never set the cuff's forward lean greater than what your ankle (dorsiflexion) allows. If you do this, it will strain your Achilles, cause your heel to lift, cause your foot to slide laterally inside the boot, and you will hate life. If your ankle tops out at 15°, do not set your boot to 17°. Don't know what you need? See your local boot-fitter for a range of motion assessment.

2. More forward lean creates a more aggressive athletic stance. This is good for skiing faster, skiing steeper terrain but it can be hard on your quads.

3. Less forward lean creates a more upright stance. This can be more relaxing, but a greater tendency for your weight get more rearward. If someone has a limited range of motion, you most often want to position the cuff more upright to avoid rule #1. Also, a cuff should be positioned more upright when a skier has a big calf muscle. A big calf essentially pushes you forward, increasing your effective forward lean.

 

[tominiemenmaa]

Thanks. Finding a boot fitter isn't that easy in Finland -> would it hurt to try? What would be the most probable outcomes?

Rules of Forward Lean Club:

1. You never set the cuff's forward lean greater than what your ankle (dorsiflexion) allows. If you do this, it will strain your Achilles, cause your heel to lift, cause your foot to slide laterally inside the boot, and you will hate life. If your ankle tops out at 15°, do not set your boot to 17°. Don't know what you need? See your local boot-fitter for a range of motion assessment.

2. More forward lean creates a more aggressive athletic stance. This is good for skiing faster, skiing steeper terrain but it can be hard on your quads.

3. Less forward lean creates a more upright stance. This can be more relaxing, but a greater tendency for your weight get more rearward. If someone has a limited range of motion, you most often want to position the cuff more upright to avoid rule #1. Also, a cuff should be positioned more upright when a skier has a big calf muscle. A big calf essentially pushes you forward, increasing your effective forward lean.

 

[sashko]

An easy way to check if you have enough forward lean -https://skierlab.com/are-your-ski-boots-helping-you-be-a-bad-ass-or-just-bad/

Thanks. Finding a boot fitter isn't that easy in Finland -> would it hurt to try? What would be the most probable outcomes?

 

[tominiemenmaa]

Thanks! Did the test, failed the test, and added the FT shims/wedges/spoilers/whatever they're called to my Dropkicks. Now I can get my femurs way over parallel to the floor, without the shims I could get to parallel but it required a lot of patience and couldn't go any further. Tomorrow is a ski day so I'll be back posting later this week about how this experiment worked out.

The reason for me being interested in this is my soleus muscles (below the calf muscles) have gotten quite sore in the beginning of every season, but the pain has eased out after five days or so. This season I already have 18 days in and the soreness is still there, so figured out there has to be a way to alter this via altering boot fit.

An easy way to check if you have enough forward lean -https://skierlab.com/are-your-ski-boots-helping-you-be-a-bad-ass-or-just-bad/

"I get made fun of a lot in the snow school locker room because I'm constantly tinkering with my boots. For me, with a somewhat aging crooked body, it's just small tweaks in the endless search for symmetrical turns, and I must admit it borders on obsessive compulsive behavior."

The quote is from the link. It could'be printed from my brain haha

 

[tominiemenmaa]

Found another pair of the FT forward lean wedges, a smaller version and did the test again. Failed it again and put the bigger wedges on, in which I passed the test easily.

No wedge



Small wedge



Big wedge



The diffence is huge just by eyeballing. Must feel super weird to ski these at first.

I've also been testing different flexes. Used to have MASSIVE problems with my peroneal (=outer shin) muscles and a softer flex helped that. Used to ride the softest (4 / 80) tongue available. Nowadays my peroneals are way stronger and the problem is solved, therefore moved to the stock tongue with a 6 / 90 flex and loved it. No problems evolved after 10 days or so, so got a pair of 8 / 100 flex tongues and been testing them out after that. The forward lean seems to stiffen the feel a bit so might be switching to the stock tongue, but I'll try this setup first.

 

[sashko]

But have you done the "extending part of the test" yet?) AFAIK forward lean boot set up is about finding balance between ability to put your femurs parallel to the ground and extend your legs as straight as possible. if you have excessive bend in your knees while standing straight - your quads will become sore much faster. I would prioritize this aspect. And IIRC FT smaller wedge makes 15/16 degree of forward lean which should fit most people.

 

[tominiemenmaa]

There is a few degrees of excessive bend on this setup with the large wedge, but not much. Will try the smaller wedge later too.

But have you done the "extending part of the test" yet?) AFAIK forward lean boot set up is about finding balance between ability to put your femurs parallel to the ground and extend your legs as straight as possible. if you have excessive bend in your knees while standing straight - your quads will become sore much faster. I would prioritize this aspect. And IIRC FT smaller wedge makes 15/16 degree of forward lean which should fit most people.

 

[sashko]

Looks good to me

 

[tominiemenmaa]

After 2 hours if very active rail park lapping, the bigger wedge was too much. Balance felt off & soleus muscles (outer lower shin / ankle area) became sore from between the malleolus bone & achilles tendon.

The smaller wedge setup felt good, will continue with it for at least a second day, probably more.