i've actually been using the randomn function on my creative zen touch a lot more these days and was thinkin about a shuffle for skiing cause then i dont have to worry about it. But back to good MP3 players. I have a Creative Zen Touch 20gb one and it is sick, i got mine for $180 at some sale. The best thing about is the 24 hour battery life but mine is really around 20 now(i've had it for about a year).Its just the same as the ipod in everything else but a touch pad in the middle instead of a spinny wheel which takes a while to get used to. Its also a tad bigger and heavier but thats the extra battery life there.