Becoming an actuary/thoughts on the actuarial profession

sneezin

sneezin

Member
Sup fellas.

I'm entering my sophomore year of college and trying to figure out what I want to do for the rest of my life. My brother is entering his senior year, and has decided to become an actuary. He has already passed the first actuarial exam and is well on his way to passing the second.

Meanwhile, I have been researching this career and I am definitely interested as well. I have always been a super-strong test taker and, like most people, want to make a shitload of money. For those who don't know, being an actuary is basically a guaranteed six figures by the time youre 30, and many consulting actuaries make 300k+/year. The unemployment rate for actuaries is ridiculously low. And unlike finance/working on wall street, being an actuary (depends what sector) is relatively unstressfull and only requires about 40 hrs/week. Most actuaries retire very early.

However, the tests are not easy. There are 10 of them and the general rule is they require 400+ hours of studying each. When combined, they are harder than the bar (but telling bitches you passed the bar is way cooler because most people don't know what an actuary is). My brother passed his first after 25 hours and I figure I can pass with similar hours of studying.

Plus, math and business have always been my strong suits.

Basically, I'm thinking about being an actuary for about 20 years or so and then retiring with a boatload of cash and becoming a ski instructor or volunteer adaptive ski instructor and skiing for the rest of my life.

Anybody here familiar with the actuarial profession? I have been lurking around actuarialoutpost.com but thats the perspective of a bunch of nerdy actuaries for the most part.

I know the majority of you are 12-15 years old but I know there's some people with developed brains on here.......
 
Finance and Accounting degrees here, so I'm very familiar with what actuaries do and the services they provide. oh and I'm 25, not 12 so that has to count for something.

From everything I've seen and heard, it is a great profession to be in with a low unemployment rate vs. the general unemployment rate. Quite high barriers to entry of course due to it's very difficult nature and extremely intense math skill demands.

I have no doubt that actuaries are paid well, just be careful when making assumptions of how much you'll make and when you'll retire and all of that stuff - before you've even passed the tests or entered the profession. Take it one step at a time, but all in all - I'd definitely say it's a good idea and a good profession if you can pass the exams.
 
you are posting in summer NSG, so be prepared to hear some really retarded responses. sounds like a great job to have though
 
Thanks for the intelligent response. From what I've heard, the math is no where near as hard as engineering and the likes. Basically just high level stats based calc which doesnt involve any trig (I hate trig). And I definitely realize the assumptions I'm making are far reaching, and who knows whether that will happen or not. I just figure I will at least be able to take some nice skiing vacations if I become an actuary. And the way I see it is that becoming an actuary would give me the greatest potential to retire and ski for the rest of my life.

To the kid that said have fun with all the studying...

The way most entry level actuarial jobs work is they give you a starting salary around 70k/year and for every additional test you pass they give you a 5k bonus and 5k additional salary. I've gotta say, thats quite the incentive to study. Plus my brother would be more than willing to help me study for the tests. Further, a brother is quite the connection to have in the workplace. If one of us is ever in need of a job later in life we could hook the other one up. Or better yet, we could start our own actuarial consulting compan or something.

My last name is factor...

Factuarial Consulting Corporation anybody?

 
Yeah, the high pay and low unemployment make it pretty attractive, but even if you retire early, do you really want a job that you're just doing for money (assuming you're not actually that interested in the profession itself), or would you rather find a decent-paying job that you would actually enjoy doing? And if you really are interested in math, from what I've heard, being an actuary rarely uses more advanced math skills.

search
 
I am willing to bet most people long to college will wind up with jobs that they are doing for the money, and will spend the rest of their time doing the things that they like to do.
 
except are generation will work till we are at least 70 if not 75, which is a long time, might as well try and find something you enjoy
 
Thizzle's response^ is half of my answer to this. Just a guess here, but I bet 99% of us are going to end up working for corporate America doing something we don't necessarily enjoy. I can't think of any decently high paying jobs that I would wake up every morning psyched to go to work.

The other half is that there are certainly aspects of the job that will be boring. Crunching numbers all day isn't necessarily what I want to do for the rest of my life. However, actuarial science can literally be applied to anything. I plan on double majoring in entrepreneurship and finance (if possible, gotta line up my credits because I just got suspended ;) ) and there are so many entrepreneurship ventures one can realize when applying actuarial concepts. A dream of mine has always been to start a company and watch it grow, and being an actuary would help me both in giving me more capital through my salary and in helping my analyze industries way more efficiently.
 
haha ya, it is. Remember that that's the recommended time to study though, and many employers will give you paid study time. realistically I would study probably half of that... I took a tiny practice test (without studying or taking many of the classes I need to take) for the first test and scored a 40%... and I have an adderall prescription for my adhd so it's not hard for me to spend a sunday studying 10 hours or so. If I find the studying/tests to be too hard at any point I'm still in a job that pays real well. You don't need to pass every single test to become an actuary. If I felt like starting my own company after only 5 tests I could always go back later and take more tests.

It will take years and years though... definitely one of the serious things I need to consider. I certainly don't want to waste my 20's studying away, but I am willing to waste a good portion of it if it means serious financial security for the rest of my life. They say that money doesn't buy happiness, but I feel like a lack of financial security is a sure way to be unhappy and stressed out all the time. I certainly wouldn't mind being able to buy nice things for myself and my family.
 
my cousins husband is an actuary, I think his starting salary was 96k working in NYC. all i know is that he fucking loves math, and is insanely good at it. if that doesnt sound like you, it might not be your calling. im in engineering so I do a decent amount of math and I am pretty good at it I guess, but being an actuary, NO FUCKING WAY. just sitting at a desk and calculating financial risk for the rest of your life is legitimate nightmare to me haha
 
Speaking of finance, is there anyone on NS who has done investment banking? I would be surprised because of the extreme hours and competitiveness but I was just curious.
 
You think most people want to make a shitload of money? Find something that makes you happy not something that makes you rich.
 
.

i'm heading into chemical engineering, my course starts this september. loads of jobs available, well paid and so many different and interesting paths you can take
 
Yeah, there is at least one or two, plus NSer 0ptions is heavily involved in finance (hence the name).

IB does sound pretty ridiculous though, you'd have to be willing to give away some of your best years just to make it above the rank of analyst.

 
I don't think most people want to make a shitload of money. I know most people want to make a shitload of money.

I knew somebody would come in here saying this. The reality of the situation is that I know I'm not going to be happy unless I am making 70k+ a year. Sure I'd love to ski instruct for the rest of my life but its pretty damn hard to raise a family without some cash in your pocket. Plus I love money... i'm jewish.

And I'm not saying being an actuary will make me unhappy. I've always been interested in math, statistics, and business. I'm always thinking about and analyzing stats in my head anyways.

I think the majority of NS has the mindset that they can simply just do what makes them happy for the rest of their lives, and avoid working for corporate america. Realistically, the vast majority of us will work for corporate america if we want a half decent salary because CORPORATIONS OWN AMERICA. I've already come to terms with this (been working in a cubicle full time for the past four summers). It's really not too dreadful, you get used to it. I'll be perfectly happy having a 5 ski quiver, a nice porche, and becoming a weekend warrior to the ski hill until I retire and ski for the rest of my life.

to the person that said being rich would make me happy - BINGO
 
What you perceive now as being rich will most likely change, slowly, as you earn more. Of course it's your life and your choice, but every half-educated young adult knows that pursuing a career based off a salary is a very, very stupid idea.
 
almost positive that member "0ptions" has interned for an investment bank. Thus the username. PM him, he's cool and can answer your questions i bet

 
making close to 100k a year might seem like a lot to some people but you know it's nothing. i'm not only going after a high salary, engineering is my thing and I know i'll enjoy what I do.
 
100k a year isn't a ton (not gonna be filthy rich on 100k a year) but most other careers have median wages around the 65-70k range. And median salary for consulting actuaries with experience is 200k+... Aside from engineering, there aren't too many careers that can pay nearly 100k out of undergrad other than maybe finance... And finance is a whole hell of a lot more stressful than being an actuary.

Also - Bitches are attracted to guys with money. It's stupid, but 100% true. Anyone that says otherwise is a liar. Not gonna get marry a smokeshow ski bumming for the rest of your life.

Another reason that I want to become an actuary is that none of my friends parents think I'm gonna succeed in life. My girlfriend left me for some ivy league mother fucker who she thinks is going to go further in life than I am. Fuck the haters, I want to be that kid at the 10th high school reunion who rolls up in a mad nice car.

I realize that many of your definitions of "going far in life" isn't just making money. But you can't tell me that 90% of being successful is making a lot of money.

And once again, I don't even think I'd dislike being an actuary. I've always been super strong at math and business
 
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, or a man who needs to prove people wrong.

Do it man, give it everything you've got and make everybody eat their words.
 
High salary = early retirement = lots of money = funds to ski for the rest of his life. I think he'd be pretty happy.
 
I'm a sophomore too and I've though about that too, but I realised that for example; Working at a good job near a massive mountain like in Whistler with a job that you really enjoy and getting a pass to that mountain and going there every day is better than ur option by my opinion. (sry for my bad english)
 
Surely this isn't the wisest way to go about choosing your career? I mean, if you're as good at maths as you sound, why go for salary/status alone? Surely you'd rather earn 100K in something else you'd enjoy, than 200K on something soul destroying.
 
If success to you is proving yourself to people whose opinions mean absolutely nothing, I suggest you re-evaluate your goals in life. There's something to be said for going for the big salary and the title, but you could do way more cool stuff than actuarial science. Go do something that counts, create something, write a book, whatever. Don't just throw your education and the next 40 years of your life away on a revenge plot, thats not a productive or satisfying way to live.
 
not always, but sometimes. i was referencing how private equity is generally regarded as a better place to be. my brother went straight into private equity after college.
 
If you don't want to work for corporate america, you can always work for the government.

If you think you're interested do it, but I chose to do a career that will never make me rich, but one where I look forward to going to work. I get weekdays off to ski and for me, I am happier with my Subaru, modest quiver of skis and time to use them far more than I would be with too many skis to ever really get comfortable on them and to have to fight the crowds on weekends.

Quality of life is a very undervalued thing when people think about careers, if you have the time to play with your toys you are going to be considerably happier than the rich overworked guy with the bigger toy box but who only has 1500km a year on his ducatti or Ferrari. That is only amplified when you guys end up with the marriage and kids situation, kids are wicked but you need to be around to experience them as time flies and videos of first steps won't do it justice.

Also, if you're always striving for financial goals, I think you will always be chasing a sliding goal that increases exponentially as your salary increases, this constant disappointment seems brutal to me. The happiest man is the one who can be content with what he has already, and financial motivations will never allow this. My $0.02 anyway.
 
Great post. Diminishing returns, high taxation and long hours mean most people will be fighting a losing battle for a 'satisfactory' salary/level of status when they could just be enjoying themselves.
 
It's a good job but don't believe the statistics. Actuaries make good money but just because some actuaries make 300K+ a year it doesn't mean you just pass the tests and automatically make that. It's probably very few actuaries who actually make it that far.

As for lifestyle, you should factor in your study time as time that you'll be working. So maybe you'll only work 40 hour weeks but do you really want to come home every night after work and on weekends study for actuary exams which could mean you are really working 60-70 hour week.

In my opinion, if you're interested and math and statistics, becoming an actuary is a great idea. Job security is great, work-life balance is good, and you'll basically guarantee a path to a middle/upper-middle class lifestyle.

Yet you should look into a lot of jobs beyond just being an actuary.

Most people suck at math so if you can get a kick ass GPA in any tough major that involves math, you will be in a very good position. Look into a lot of career options and pick the best one that balances overall salary, exit opportunities, work-life balance, social status, job security/opportunities, location, your interests, etc. You should then pick a major that'll get you to where you want to be. I would consider mathematics, physics, statistics, finance, accounting, economics, computer science, etc.

 
Agreed.

The most important factor for choosing a career should be what you enjoy though. Even if you're only working 40 hours per week, you're going to be miserable doing something you're not interested in.
 
if I had a dollar for every friend I had freshman year of college that was going to be a actuary....

 
My friends sister is an actuary and loves it. But then again, his brother is at stanford researching multi phase flow structure interaction and loves that. I guess whatever gets you excited
 
Thanks for the input, +K. I've gotta say, I'm real surprised with the number of serious responses on here.

I think my plan is to take a couple of upper level calc courses this next semester and see how they go. My GPA is going to be screwed by me transferring this fall... I had a 3.91 gpa at Denver but wherever I transfer to my Denver grades wont calculate into my final GPA. I do, however, get credit for these classes so I don't have to take any more intro-level courses for the most part. So basically, wherever I go, my GPA will only be calculated by the hard(er) classes I take.

Fuck me, right? Guess that's what happens when you get suspended. Oops.

Regardless I'm thinking about double majoring in entrepreneurship and finance. Not positive yet, though
 
This inspired me to register.

Most of us have some form of a moral compass, although some folks succeed better without one. There is nothing wrong to make money. A lot of successful people seek to make the world a better place. They're not driven by ego. There's also nothing wrong with wanting to retire early, but don't deceive yourself into thinking that you will be unaffected by the journey you choose.

What do actuaries do? Don't they develop elaborate mathematical models evaluating risk ... for insurance companies? There's nothing wrong with being a math wizard. I myself consider myself to be anything but one, yet I have read about the Black Scholes calculations involved in pricing options.

So, at first glance, being an actuary may seem like a sweet deal--plenty of challenges solving puzzles, security, and good pay. BUT, you'd be working for an insurance company!!! The business model of insurance companies is to take in premiums, and generate profits by minimizing payouts. (And if for some reason, they have to payout too much, the government will rescue them.). If you work for an insurance company, they will do their best to indoctrinate you. They'll play the victim, inflating fraud statistics to gain hyper vigilance of claim administrators (often single moms with limited vocational options). They'll create administrative processes that enable them to delay paying claims, sometimes to roll them over the payout to the next reporting period. They may even offer the rank and file bonuses to "make their numbers". Each fall during open enrollment, you'll see nicely executed ads of insurance companies portraying themselves as an understanding entity who will be there for you at your time of need. It's just propaganda.

If you're tempted to be dismissive about insurance companies courting the dark side, view Under Our Skin. In it, you will learn about the legal proceedings by Blue Cross persecuting and seeking to bankrupt a physician--not because of patient complaints, not because of malpractice, not because of state licensing boards, not even due to complaints by peers in the profession--it was because he was treating patients with protocols Blue Cross did not want to see adopted.

If you know any attorneys, do some informational interviewing. Ask them what originally made them interested in law, and how they got into their particular specialty. You may find the idealistic underdog took a job in insurance defense (or corporate law) because of their student loans. You might hear them say something like, "all I'm concerned with is seeking the best outcome for my client". This is a clue to the type of blinders they need to put on in order to function. Industrial accident? "Let's see if we can limit our liability to $8k for that arm."

You may enjoy the work, and you may be able to avoid drinking their KoolAid, but ultimately, you are working for an organization whose survival is denying care or claims.

One other thought. Planning to enjoy yourself after you've got a nice nest egg may be disappointing. At 40, you may have other interests and commitments. Your body might not to be up to it. Delayed gratification can be a great strategy, but it's good to smell the roses along the way and try to find some joy in every day.

Are you sure you wouldn't like to use your mathematical gifts for the betterment of others? How about getting a finance degree and working for a non-commission brokerage until you can be a certified financial planner? There are a lot of fixed-income people who desperately need assistance from an ethical advisor.

Take a year off. Ski your ass off. Get in touch with your essence, and discern your life mission. I met one guy who was a white water tour guide in the summer. He was a student each fall semester, and he worked at a ski resort for NATO during the winter and spring. Yes, he won't graduate until he's 26, but he seemed happy and well adjusted (had self acceptance and didn't need to prove himself to anyone).

I don't think you'll fully enjoy your Porsche (or whatever) knowing you figured out how to reduce your companies obligation to someone dying of cancer. And when you're 40, retired, and waiting for the chair lift, it would be better knowing in your heart of hearts you've helped someone rather than replaying rationalizations so you can live with yourself.
 
also Actuaries are well compensated experienced fellows have the potential to earn from $150,000 to $250,000 annually and many actuaries earn more than that.

Compensation may vary significantly according to years of experience industry geographic region and responsibilities. For example an actuary with a fellowship designation working as a financial manager in the banking industry could earn a higher salary than another fellow working in the health insurance industry.

http://www1.salary.com/Actuary-V-Salary.html
 
Before I say anything here... let me begin by saying thank you for your serious and clearly heartfelt, well thought out response. I appreciate it man. Welcome to newschoolers, we could use more members like you.

I definitely do need to take what you are saying into consideration. I DO want to do things with my life, make the world a better place, etc. Seriously. Some of my main goals in life are as follows:

1. Buy my dad a nice boat

2. Donate serious money to ability plus (its an organization for disabled skiing -- both mental and physical disabilities)

^Basically the story behind this (and my passion for skiing) is my uncle became a paraplegic when he was 17 and monoskiing basically saved his life. He passed away a few years back but his monoski still hangs over a bar across from Attitash in NH.

3. Have a hot wife

4. Be able to support my friends and family when they are in need.

5. Ski as much as I possibly can.

6. Be able to afford nice things for myself

... not saying those are all of my goals, just some of the major ones.

What I am getting at is entering the actuarial profession will put me in the position to accomplish all of the above. You are right that the majority of actuaries work in insurance. However, actuaries are actually employed in virtually every industry. I'd probably want to become a consulting actuary, which would mean that I wouldn't necessarily be affiliated with one firm or industry (other than my consulting firm). I am unaware of any other jobs that don't require grad school, have a roughly 99.9% employment rate, and still put you in the position to be making a just about guaranteed 6 figures down the road, with opportunity for much more.

So, I think my plan is to take some upper level calc and stats courses next semester, and maybe take the first actuarial exam to see how I like it.
 
bump.. being an actuary in BC seems super appealing to me but im not sure if i will actually enjoy the work

why do you think you will enjoy it OP
 
I stand by my statement. Why wouldn't you want to end up in PE now? It is possible to get into a top firm right out of college. Whatever your perception is about how the industry works, you don't have to "pay your dues" at an IB without choice, if you play it right. Of course you'll work hard as an analyst wherever you go, but if you aren't in private equity by 20 years from now, it's likely you'll never be. However, lots of people do make the move because monetarily PE is more worth your time (bigger moves, bigger deals, less people involved, less cuts), and arguably less physically/emotionally strenuous (can have a family, can work a significant commute, hours still suck but not as much). There is a reason why private equity is the goal for many investment banking analysts, the merits of working on the buy side of the private sector are much more in tune with everyone's concepts of wealth and happiness in today's society.
 
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