Avalanche prone area

HomerPimpin

HomerPimpin

Member
it was a crazy pow day at my local mountain today and i thought it’d be a good opportunity to try some of the harder runs at the top of the mountain that i hadn’t been on before. things went well and it was great, got pow all over my face, but i wanted to ask and potentially get more educated on avalanche danger and safety. there were signs along the way, even at the lift, that had warnings about the area being prone to avalanches, and i honestly got really paranoid cause i was skiing by myself on unfamiliar terrain and had no avalanche training or equipment whatsoever. upon looking around at everyone else in the lift line and during the hike up, i’d say a solid 80 or 90% of people had backpacks with them. granted, they could’ve just been filled with food and drinks, but im sure some actually had probes and shovels and whatnot.

im just wondering if it’s safe to be skiing the way i did today, going on new terrain by myself with no equipment. back in december there was news that someone in a group of 7 or so backcountry skiers got caught in an avalanche at my mountain, in the same area i skied today, and unfortunately died.

i did ask to follow someone, shout out to the guy with the revolt 121’s that let me follow and took me down the easiest way, but i felt really skeptical and honestly a bit stupid for even going up to begin with. should i stay away from this kind of terrain until i bring the proper equipment and have the proper training?
 
You’re probably fine as long as you’re inbounds, lots of resorts will do avalanche mitigation before even thinking of opening any avalanche prone terrain, the signs posted are just a warning. I work at Big Sky and about half the mountain is posted as avalanche terrain but I have yet to see a slide on any open trails this year
 
Hard to have fun if you're nervous about dying in an avalance. Protect your peace and get a kit, and get familiar with it
 
14425147:MMairose said:
You’re probably fine as long as you’re inbounds, lots of resorts will do avalanche mitigation before even thinking of opening any avalanche prone terrain, the signs posted are just a warning. I work at Big Sky and about half the mountain is posted as avalanche terrain but I have yet to see a slide on any open trails this year
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good to know, thank you
 
While I would agree skiing slackcountry within the resort is relatively safe, as patrol will have assessed and made any appropriate control mitigations, it's certainly not risk free from being buried in an avalanche.

They cant account for all the local variations of weaknesses in the snowpack, and variations through the day as temperatures change or more snow falls and you could just be unlucky enough to trigger a slide.

If you do and you're fully buried, you're then relying on patrol (when they get to you) and anybody around to get to you and dig you out within 20mins, after this time your likelihood of surviving greatly drops off. Having no transceiver in this situation means you will be relying on them to find you in that short time with avy dogs (if they have them nearby), recco (if they have the handheld and chopper mounted kits and you have the reflectors on your gear), them seeing a part of you/your kit sticking out the snow, and that makes their job of digging you out much harder.

If you, at an absolute bare minimum have a transceiver; people & patrol (when they get there) will be able to use that to locate you better and quicker to perform a rescue with their avy kit. Having only a trasceiver is a pretty dick move though as you're pretty useless if you're out and something serious happens to somebody else. You'd be able to help with the broad search but you'd be pretty useless when you've found them and you're digging with your hands (which in heavy avy debris is almost impossible). This is why you need to have a transceiver, shovel and probe together and know how to use them if you're going to get basic avy kit.

Airbags and avalungs (if they still do them) also help you in the event of a slide but, you need to be careful they're not replacing good decision making in avy terrain.

I appreciate these things don't come without a cost and if you're not skiing much likely avy terrain or skiing it regularly, it can seem like a lot for an occasional risk but, you have to get lucky every time for it not to be worth investing in it.

There are techniques and knowledge about avalanches you can use to help you manage and assess the danger of a particular face you're going to ski, like doing a ski cut across the face from one safe place to another, and these should be taught to you in an avalanche education course along with how to use avy kit, and you can put these to use if you're uncertain about skiing something in-bounds, whether you're carrying avy kit or not.

TL:DR do an avy education course (some might even let you do it with borrowed avy kit) and get an understanding of avalanches and mitigations if you're going to ski terrain that's marked as avalanche prone. Buy and learn to use avy kit if you want to be safer.
 
In 2017, I laughed at my friend for having a beacon inbounds. In 2018, I was at Palisades Tahoe when they had an in-bounds slide.

Conditions change quickly and patrol can only do so much. It’s not a bad idea to be educated and safe.

Also, many places outside of North America only cut and blow the groomed runs so the slack country is, essentially, game on.
 
If you don’t feel like paying for formal avalanche education, I recommend taking a crack at the book “Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain”. Honestly learned more than I have in any of my avy classes
 
Safe is a relative term. Generally speaking, if you're in-bounds then there is some comfort that avalanche professionals deemed it "safe enough", but there is always the risk, and I think some basic knowledge is good for anyone who skis in avy terrain.

First, I'd give this a website a good browse:

https://avalanche.org/avalanche-education/

A little awareness can go a long way. Probably the easiest thing you can do is just read the avy forecast while booting up/eating breakfast; Avalanche forecasts are in most areas in the western US and typically describe avalanche problems pretty clearly, even if you are unfamiliar with avalanches. The encyclopedia on that website can point you in the right direction with any unfamiliar terms, too.

I'm a supporter of in-bounds beacons wearing but I understand they are expensive.
 
14425307:jaxful said:
If you don’t feel like paying for formal avalanche education, I recommend taking a crack at the book “Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain”. Honestly learned more than I have in any of my avy classes
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Most places require beacon checks in places actually dangerous. If it's somewhere like bridger where they have the ridge, most broke college kids just find something with frequency just to get them past the handle. But there have been some scary instances where you actually would really want one on you. I've always been super big on avy safety so I'll always encourage bringing at least a beacon on hikes somewhat out of the way. But you should at least judge it on how scary the face is, and how bad avy centers claim terrain will be that day. Stay safe out there!
 
This is wrong. Slackcountry terrain is never inbounds. It's lift-assisted (that's the slack part) backcountry (that's the country part) skiing, and should be treated like any other backcountry skiing (IE knowledge, gear, skills).

FaunaSkis said:
While I would agree skiing slackcountry within the resort is relatively safe, as patrol will have assessed and made any appropriate control mitigations, it's certainly not risk free from being buried in an avalanche.
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We just had a snowboarder die inbounds in gated terrain. He was found in a creek with avvy debris.
 
14425380:CallMeAl said:
This is wrong. Slackcountry terrain is never inbounds. It's lift-assisted (that's the slack part) backcountry (that's the country part) skiing, and should be treated like any other backcountry skiing (IE knowledge, gear, skills).
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Just realised I made this mix up. I meant side-country. My bad.

I would highly recommend gear and education before skiing slackcountry.
 
Yo, I usually ski with a beacon if the risk is high and I plan on skiing some steeper stuff. My assumption is if something happens patrol will have beacons and find me pretty quickly over anyone else who doesn't have a beacon.

There are a couple inbounds avalanches every year. Two dudes out in Taos got smoked last year (or 2019) inbounds. Super super rare, but it does happen.
 
14425444:skiindana said:
Yo, I usually ski with a beacon if the risk is high and I plan on skiing some steeper stuff. My assumption is if something happens patrol will have beacons and find me pretty quickly over anyone else who doesn't have a beacon.

There are a couple inbounds avalanches every year. Two dudes out in Taos got smoked last year (or 2019) inbounds. Super super rare, but it does happen.
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LOL yeah man, they'll just be finding your body quicker.

You're just as fucking stupid as the people who use RECCO as an alternative to beacons.
 
Inbounds slides are a lot more common than you’d think and people do go for rides on open runs more frequently than you’d imagine. There’s a reason they call it avalanche mitigation instead of avalanche control these days
 
14425463:HomerPimpin said:
not directly i guess but i was referring to crystal, yes. i was up at a-basin yesterday
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I mean… I’ve skied those zones without any gear which seems like something that is way more common than it should be. It’s not like strictly backcountry because patrol does avalanche control, but in my opinion if I planned on leaving Campbell basin I would bring my stuff unless the avy danger was super low. Idk I know I am rambling but it’s because it’s sort of borderline
 
14425475:skierman said:
LOL yeah man, they'll just be finding your body quicker.

You're just as fucking stupid as the people who use RECCO as an alternative to beacons.
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How quickly you get dug out is like, the key factor to surviving avalanches burials. Most avy deaths are suffocation/carbon monoxide poisoning, not trauma, and survival rates are pretty good if you get dug out in less than 15 minutes.

In the 2019 Taos case, a probe line was set up in 5 minutes, first skier found in 15 minutes, second in 25 minutes. In other words, both right at or after the time point where survival rates plummet. I'm gonna wear my beacon, pretty easy way to improve your odds

**This post was edited on Apr 12th 2022 at 12:34:49pm
 
14425750:IsaacNW82 said:
How quickly you get dug out is like, the key factor to surviving avalanches burials. Most avy deaths are suffocation/carbon monoxide poisoning, not trauma, and survival rates are pretty good if you get dug out in
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Yeah man and skiing by yourself and relying on ski patrol to find your corpse is like a really good strategy when time is of the essence.
 
My roommate at the time knew the first responder on the scene. It was her first year patrolling at Taos. Fucking horrible situation all around.

14425750:IsaacNW82 said:
How quickly you get dug out is like, the key factor to surviving avalanches burials. Most avy deaths are suffocation/carbon monoxide poisoning, not trauma, and survival rates are pretty good if you get dug out in less than 15 minutes.

In the 2019 Taos case, a probe line was set up in 5 minutes, first skier found in 15 minutes, second in 25 minutes. In other words, both right at or after the time point where survival rates plummet. I'm gonna wear my beacon, pretty easy way to improve your odds

**This post was edited on Apr 12th 2022 at 12:34:49pm
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14425754:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
My roommate at the time knew the first responder on the scene. It was her first year patrolling at Taos. Fucking horrible situation all around.
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Geez, that is one heck of a first year. Does not sound fun.
 
14425215:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
In 2017, I laughed at my friend for having a beacon inbounds. In 2018, I was at Palisades Tahoe when they had an in-bounds slide.

Conditions change quickly and patrol can only do so much. It’s not a bad idea to be educated and safe.

Also, many places outside of North America only cut and blow the groomed runs so the slack country is, essentially, game on.
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yupp. We commonly ride with beacons at pali/alpine and follow the buddy system on big dump days. Weve set one off on ABC bowl/highyellow before(small and everyone was able to ride away) and it seems that mammoth or squawpine has had a slide pretty much every year. Except this one(?). Plus tree wells arent anything to fuck with either. Pulled a guy outta one who was skiing alone. I decided to stop to adjust my boots and heard some muffled grunting a tree or two away. Inspected it and all I could see was the very tip of one ski. Buddy and were able to pop him out after a huge effort. Guy probs woulda been an iceicle if my boots werent bothering me.
 
14425463:HomerPimpin said:
not directly i guess but i was referring to crystal, yes. i was up at a-basin yesterday
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Nowhere that is lift accessible at A-basin isn’t mitigated by patrol (I think). You shouldn’t NEED beacon/shovel/probe inbounds anywhere there. However if you’re leaving the resort and heading up Loveland pass or across the ridge past the normal east wall chutes, then Avy gear/knowledge is very much required. With that being said I did have a close call last year in the steep gullies when they probably shouldn’t have been open before getting bombed.

**This post was edited on Apr 12th 2022 at 3:33:22pm
 
topic:HomerPimpin said:
back in december there was news that someone in a group of 7 or so backcountry skiers got caught in an avalanche at my mountain, in the same area i skied today, and unfortunately died.
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Good info in this thread. One thing I didn't see anyone say yet is that 7 is a decently big group to go BC skiing with. The more people, the more likely to trigger a slide and I would probably never go with more than 4 or 5 depending on who they are.
 
Dave’s Run at the Basin is named after the guy who died in an inbounds slide in there

AAA’s are cheap so you might as well wear a beacon on sketchy days

14425807:jaxful said:
Nowhere that is lift accessible at A-basin isn’t mitigated by patrol (I think). You shouldn’t NEED beacon/shovel/probe inbounds anywhere there. However if you’re leaving the resort and heading up Loveland pass or across the ridge past the normal east wall chutes, then Avy gear/knowledge is very much required. With that being said I did have a close call last year in the steep gullies when they probably shouldn’t have been open before getting bombed.

**This post was edited on Apr 12th 2022 at 3:33:22pm
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