Auction to hunt a Rhino

Taken from the article:

"Sacrificing one animal for the greater good of the endangered species is

a move that critics and animal conservation groups call "perverse" and a

"sad joke.""

I'd say that sums it up pretty well. That's so stupid.
 
I'm a big hunter and supporter of hunting and this is TOTALLY necessary! The following bit is taken from chicken's thread a long time ago that was recently bumped, followed by a little more new insight from me:

As probably the only NS member to have actually been on safari in Africa, I will take the time to make a non-trolling and actually useful post.

In the hunting circles, especially the African hunting circles, the ultimate goal is to take the "Big 5." The Big 5 consists of Elephant, Lion, Leopard, Cape Buffalo, and Rhino. These are storied beasts, steeped in legend, and all dangerous to hunt regardless of weapon used. Leopard and Cape Buffalo are reasonable price-wise to harvest. Lion and Elephant are expensive, particularly trophy males. Rhino are in a whole different class, usually in the six figure range.

Yes, Rhino numbers are drastically down from historic levels. There are two different types of rhinos in Africa, the White Rhino and the Black Rhino. The White Rhino is the more affordable and more available option, with only a few Black Rhino harvested each year (prices in the high six figures.) So why hunt rhinos? The answer is surprisingly simple, and quite logical.

Rhinos are poached in large numbers because their horns are believed to have aphrodisiac powers, specifically in Asia. Africa is a very poor continent. People are literally starving there, especially in the more wild areas where rhinos are found. Poaching one rhino and selling its horn on the black market represents an amazing opportunity to better one's life and feed one's family. It is hard to blame the natives for poaching the rhinos when we take the time to look at the conditions in which they live. As such, every rhino that can be found gets poached. The natives are responsible for the decline in rhino numbers, not the white hunters such as the one in the picture.

How can this issue be resolved? Yes, there are game scouts and patrollers, but the African bush is very vast and the motivation to poach high. This is not a viable solution. The answer is to make the rhinos more valuable alive than dead. By allowing a limited number of white hunters to come in and legally take a rhino for six figures, and have a large portion of this money go to the local people, all of a sudden the natives become the best friends of the rhinos. Their number one goal has now changed to making sure that every rhino is protected and revered. They want there to be enough rhinos around that the government will allot a few tags to white hunters. The absolutely enormous financial infusion that stems from the legal harvest of one white rhino is worth so much more than hawking a few horns on the black market. The same has been done with elephants, tremendously successfully. Money talks, here in the US, and in Africa.

BACK TO NEW POSTING:

Among the two different types of rhinos in Africa, the black rhino and the white rhino, the white rhino is known as the "dumb" rhino. They are oafish and quite stupid, presenting little sporting opportunity. Black rhino are another matter altogether, and thus have a different stigma attached to them. Roark, Roosevelt, Hemingway, Capstick and other authors have penned many tales about the pursuit of the black rhino. As such, the black rhino is a treasured and dreamed-of trophy by many blue-blood trophy hunters who have the financial means to pursue this rare opportunity.

Black rhinos are carefully managed (although not immune to the threat of poaching). The reserve on which this tremendously controversial rhino is to be hunted is carefully managed. Each rhino is individually known and monitored. The one selected for this auction is an old male rhino. He is no longer able to breed, thus representing no use to the propagation of the species. He is in declining health and will die shortly of natural causes with no monetary reward for the rhino population whatsoever. If he dies a few months short of his natural passing by the bullet of a rich white hunter, a not-so-small fortune will be directly put into black rhino conservation and protection.

This hunt is not for a random black rhino. It is for the specific male detailed above. Come to your senses and think logically. There is no way that this $500,000 - $1,000,000 will get into the hands of rhino conservation without sacrificing this one rhino a few months short of his natural death. He is useless to the current population. The rich white hunters who will be bidding on the right to harvest him are good people, but not so good as to see no physical return on their large sum of money. The overall rhino population loses basically nothing and gains a tremendous amount. There are no negatives here and quite literally a million positives.

The words above are all my own. I am somewhat of an expert on Africa hunting and especially on lion and rhino conservation. I'm happy to answer questions and will give reasonable, non-trolling responses to reasonable questions. I hope this helps educate you all a bit on this interesting issue.
 
Fuck all this bullshit. People want to trophy hunt? They love the thrill? They find pleasure in slaying beautiful wildlife?

Put all these sadistic losers in arena with each other, let them hunt each other! Fuck, if they complain, it won't be because they feel the hunt is boring, they won't complain about lack of thrill.
 
iFlip brings up good points but it only encourages killing for money. The poaching won't stop and the money raised is for conservation not to feed the needy in the area. The natives will continue to poach and there is no lesson learned.
 
iFlip - if the hunt is only for a single, old, dying black rhino who is carefully tracked and accounted for, where is the thrill? Seriously, from a hunting perspective this seems akin to fishing in a stocked pond - which I'd imagine to be pretty boring to an accomplished fisherman. Is it just for the trophy?
 
Holte, Absolutely. There is very little thrill. It's about the "accomplishment" of having taken a black rhino and completing the Big 5 on one's wall. That part of it is a bit perverse but different people enjoy different things. This hunt would definitely not be for me, regardless of the cost. Still, I am very grateful that there are those out there who do value this experience. It makes the prospect of rhino conservation much more viable in the long-term.
 
well it would be nice if someone wanted to donate 1 million dollars to help the rhinos without killing them, but that probably wont happen.

the guy who is hunting the thing is obviously just trying to inflate his tiny dick, but at the end of the day is still doing more to help rhinos than you. even if his reason for doing it is selfish.

let him kill the fucking thing. I don't give a shit. It's no more cruel than eating a steak or something. Actually probably less cruel. Plus they are gonna go extinct anyways.
 
Thanks iflip for helping some of us see the bigger side of the picture! It was def easier to just automatically hate it, until you broke it down.. k+
 
haha I saw this thread and knew you would come in with your bullshit, didn't expect a novel tho, not like I was going to read word one anyway
 
This whole situation is fvcked. Trophy hunting is sick, poaching is wrong, why do we feel the need to kill shit for our own enjoyment? After reading if lips post,, I'm incline to still disagree with this whole thing. Essentially, were just coming into another country and setting up some vacationland shit like breck with the local populace bending to our needs and expecting them to thank us. Poor parallel, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee

E
 
put money into their conservation.

which is good on paper, but I don't believe for an instant that it will work in reality.

what will really happen:

Rich guy pays his 500,000 and kills some rhino in some reserve. The reserve gets the money.

Knowing a little bit about African politics, a couple people will skim off 75% of the profits for personal use and the rest will be distributed to the nearby towns.

Of the remaining money, another 3/4 will be taken personally by those who receive it in the town and the rest will be put to use for doing what it was actually meant to do. It will be used to improve the school or medical facility or water facilities, etc.

None of the money will directly make its way into the hands of the people in the region, and the money itself will only help the region immediately around the reserve. So as far as the people (potential poachers) are concerned, they get nothing.

Also considering the range of the rhinos, only a fraction of a percent of that range will see any of the profits.

So how will this actually help preserve the rhinos? It won't. The impact will be negligible at best.

So now you'd say "it worked for elephants, why not rhinos?". Did it work for elephants? I don't know. But if it actually did help preserve elephant populations at a continent level (which I highly, highly doubt. I bet at the municipal or maybe even country level it has, for certain areas, but I'd like to see reputable stats for the total populations).

But why you can't say 'it worked for one, why not the other, is because they're different species with different black market values.

A rhino horn can go for $300,000. If you're in one of the villages who's actually going to benefit from the proceeds of the hunt, how much are you going to make personally? Even if the money was distributed evenly it would never be more than a grand or two.

So what's bigger, 2000 or 300,000? Not a trick question. You don't need an education to figure that one out. If I'm a poor villager who's starving it will still be far far more profitable for me to go out with a few buddies and bag us our own rhino to sell the horn illegally.

Like was said, money speaks.

A cynical view of the situation, I know. But let's not try to make ourselves believe that a rhino hunt will be the saviour of the species. You'd be delusional to think so.
 
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VinnieF,

Your post, while lengthy, is merely conjecture. Your figures are not grounded in reality, nor are your assumptions of how the money will be used.

Rhino horns do not go for $300,000. Also, the people the African poachers are able to sell the horns to will only pay the poachers a small amount. This amount will be sizable in relation to their poverty level, but nowhere near what they will be able to hawk it for in Asia. The amount of money they will get will be sizable only to them, not to the village. As such, the chiefs and local authorities understand the value of protecting the rhinos so that one or two can be hunted at tremendous value to the local people, not just to one poacher. By poaching, one is effectively stealing from one's village. This is most certainly not looked upon favorably by the local chiefs and authorities and is usually punished by death.

Last year two black rhinos were legally hunted in in Namibia, for N$1,85 million and N$2,1 million, respectively. To put these numbers in perspective, the rhino that will sell tonight at auction may bring around N$10 million.

In 2013, 946 white rhinos were poached in South Africa. South Africa has the largest population of rhinos in the world, both white and black rhinos. Still, this is a small number and the number poached is far from sustainable. The reason that the number of rhinos poached has been growing from year to year recently is two-fold. One, South Africa (where there are more rhinos than anywhere else, remember), has been going through a financial crisis. The large landowners as well as government agencies have been forced to cut funding that went into the protection of the rhinos. Two, Asia has seen a huge economic upswing, especially at the top levels. This increased demand and greater prices, coupled with less protection and more desperation on the part of would-be poachers has led to a perfect storm of rhino poaching.

It is absolutely crucial that money for rhino conservation come from somewhere. As much as the average citizen and anti-hunters cry "boo-hoo," they are not donating to the problem. Should they even be expected to? There are many human rights issues out there - starving children all over the world as well as here in America, a lack of potable drinking water, multiple natural disasters - all of these are worthy causes for your dollars. Rhinos have to pay their own way. Hunters are rhino's greatest benefactors, just as hunters achieved such amazing results with the wild turkey, waterfowl, bighorn sheep, and so many other species. Without organizations such as the NWTF (National Wild Turkey Federation), Ducks Unlimited, and the Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society, much of our cherished wild game would be in dire straits.

VinnieF, your point about Africa being a hub of mismanaged money is not off base. I've spent a fair amount of time in Africa and have immersed myself in it through literature and following the local news feeds, as well as having kept in contact with those living there. Corruption is rampant. However, those in the rhino conservation effort have gone to great lengths to assure that the money donated to the cause goes directly with the cause. With this auction, which has gotten so much publicity, no politician or local official would dare touch the money for personal betterment. All of this publicity virtually assures that the money will be watched over by everyone.

There may be no perfect solution, to that I will agree. However, without trying, what do we have? Certain failure. The only shot that is sure to miss is the one not taken. These majestic creatures, which no one appreciates more than hunters, are in need of our help. Are you an organ donor? Once your body is used up, why not let it help those in need? This old black rhino is on the way out. It will do more to help the survival of its species than the thousands of people complaining about this auction.
 
It is your right to remain uneducated about this topic. It is also your right to lend your voice to the chorus of "waaaa don't kill animals" without proposing any other viable solution. It is further your right to not read my posts and not click on this thread. I support your rights.
 
Shut the fuck up, the purpose of the fucking thread and forums is to display your arguments and have discussions, just because you don't have the attention span to read a well though out argument doesn't mean the rest of us do.
 
Not trolling. Killing a rhino is no worse than eating a steak from an animal rights perspective. And far better from an environmental perspective , given that huge pricetag.
 
iFlip,

Your post, while also lengthy, is also merely conjecture. You have posted absolutely nothing to back up your claims that having a rhino legally shot is going to decrease poaching.

While I'm assuming the money will be mismanaged and corruption will stick its grubby fingers in the honey pot, you're saying no better by assuming that this will not happen (all the while saying you know corruption is rampant).

Tell me now, how much of this money do you actually think will go to the average villager in a nearby town (directly or indirectly)? Now divide that by 5 and that's probably what it's going to be.

also

"And with a single horn fetching as much as $300,000"

first thing that came up.

The average joe will certainly be able to get far more from selling a horn than they will through a legal hunt.

Conclusion: this will do very little, if not nothing, to curb poaching.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. On paper it looks great. And it will still bring in large amounts of much needed money into the region (even though large chunks will be lost to corruption and greed), and it is (hopefully) only going to be targeting rhinos at the end of their life anyways that have little left to contribute (although I'm sure many biologists would have words to say about this being wrong).

It's fine stuff, but to claim it will reduce poaching seems very far fetched when there will still be more money to be made for the average person through poaching than what they'd get through a legal hunt once a year.

What would better reduce poaching:

-education

-giving 'licence to kill' orders for rangers when they encounter poachers

-targeting Asians, for instance an economic sanction on countries like Vietnam would hurt them oh so much and give them incentive to actually target importers and venders (although this would never happen)
 
Money earmarked for rhino conservation goes to a number of different things, ranging from habitat protection to employing more game rangers. In response to your final three points:

1: Education is always a great answer but we have a very long way to go. A lot of rural Africa (which is where the rhinos are) still believes having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS. It's difficult to educate those who do not wish to be educated. This is why "money talks" is so important. Money is the "education" that everyone wants to listen to.

2: I certainly agree. As terrible as it sounds, there are very few rhinos and a LOT of Africans. I'm certainly not saying that a rhino's life is worth more than a person's life but stricter anti-poaching regulations are needed. We agree here. This is an article that shows that deadly force is used to this effect, at least occasionally:

Durban - A rhino poacher was killed and two others injured in a fierce exchange of gunfire between a group of poachers and game rangers on Christmas day, Ezemvelo KZN Wildlife (EKZNW) said on Monday.

“Two suspected rhino poachers were wounded and one killed in an exchange of gunfire with field rangers in the Hluhluwe-iMfolozi Park on the evening of December 25,” EKZNW said.

Field rangers in the iMfolozi section of the park heard shots in the western part of the Makhamisa section of iMfolozi at about 19:40 and responded immediately.

“Using torches the field rangers challenged the intruders, who immediately cocked their weapons.

"In the ensuing exchange of gunfire one suspected poacher was shot dead and two others sustained gunshot wounds.”

Two 308 rifles with slings and two axes were recovered from the poachers.

Rhino carcass found

The carcass of an adult male white rhino was found on the banks of the White Umfolozi River during a helicopter search on Saturday, December 26.

EKZNW general manager for Zululand, Sifiso Kheswa, said he regretted that a life had been lost.

“We regret that a life has been lost in this incident but I would like to reiterate that those who think they can plunder our wildlife resources do so at their peril.”

He said he was grateful that none of his staff had been injured during the gun battle.

3: Many different things have been tried as far as making rhino's horns less available and/or less desirable. A rhino's horn is essentially exactly the same as a fingernail. The supposed aphrodisiac qualities the rich small-dicked Asians get from their overpriced rhino horns could be equally achieved by simply chewing on their fingernails.

Many rhinos have had their horns removed. This is a somewhat practical solution but far from perfect. The best idea I have heard is to drill out a small portion of the rhino's horn and put arsenic in the horn. This will not be detectable after a short time and it would be deadly to those who use the horns. The rhinos would suffer no ill effects from the arsenic in their horns. Again, we have only a few thousand rhinos and a billion Asians. Once the word got out that some rhino horns had arsenic in them and were deadly I would be willing to bet that their demand would taper sharply.
 
The best thing about this solution is that it wouldn't even need to be carried out. All it needs is a decent advertising campaign in Asia saying that many rhino horns have been laced with poison and prices would drop.

Honestly I don't really blame the Africans for the poaching. Not to sound demeaning, but most of them don't really know any better. It's the Asians who are the real problem.
 
We agree. If I was a starving African watching my family starve and not able to afford food or medical care, I would almost certainly poach a rhino given the opportunity. This is why it is so important to make them valuable to the community, not just one person. If the whole community guards and protects the rhinos, rather than just the game rangers, the rhinos can finally be safe.

The demand is where the problem is. Asians should know better, especially the ones who can afford rhino horns to theoretically make their tiny dicks bigger. If a few high-powered and rich Asians suddenly died from arsenic-laced rhino horn, word would spread and demand would shrink to be as small as their dicks.
 
I would love to see the newspaper title: "Yellow man dies from arsenic laced rhino horns. Price plummets."

Simple yet effective.

Arsenic + Rhinos for 2014
 
They should make a new TV series, "The Poachers get Poached". Basically, the rangers catch the poachers, then once you have enough (say 20 poachers caught), they get put in a ring and have to fight to the death.

Broadcast worldwide, make billions, feed all of Africa. PROFIT????

 
If you think there is anything wrong with this, you are either A: a member of PETA or B: a complete imbecile.

The Rhino is OLD and STERILE and the money from the proceeds is going to CONSERVATION efforts...

Not sure how this is can be skewed to be a bad thing by any means...
 
I think that there is something wrong with it. but I think there is something wrong with needlessly killing any animal. Including killing an animal for food.

not a member of PETA. they are fucked.
 
I dont have a problem with the logistics or consequences behind killing a single rhino, obviously the money behind it can be put towards good use.

The thing i dont really understand is why these rich trophy hunters even feel the need to kill a rhino in the first place. I mean, in this day and age the rhino hunt cant be very dangerous and it just seems kinda pathetic to me that they are willing to spend such a heinous amount of money just to go kill a particularly rare and awesome animal just for the sake of showing off it's stuffed head to all their shitty friends or whatever.

im fine with hunting in basically every aspect except for when its just for the sake of killing a really big/cool/uncommon animal. it takes the practicality out of hunting and replaces it with ego.
 
So far this year 11 rhino poachers have been killed by anti-poaching patrols in South Africa. However, at least 40 rhinos have already been killed this year in SA. Last year was the deadliest year ever for rhino poaching, with over 1,000 of these majestic beasts killed by poachers. Here is an interesting article that helps lend a sense of place to the bloody war that is being waged every day:
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/11-poachers-killed-in-rhino-war-1.1634857#.Ut-YkpMo4eF
 
they both are bringing good relatable info to this thread rather than worthless summer NSG bullshit. thats the point of a forum ya dingus.
 
I think this is an important point brought up in your post, but is lost in the length. People do not realize that the bull being hunted is an aging male who is unable to breed, but is still extremely territorial and unwilling to let younger males breed with "his" females. Therefore, this older, territorial bull is stymieing the growth of the species as a whole by preventing younger, more fertile males to breed. Killing an older male will benefit the species as a whole, and raise a lot of money for conservation efforts in the area.

I support this auction for the benefit of the species as a whole.
 
No they should restrict hunting on all endangered animals. And put more regulation on it to make sure no one is poaching. And not do auctions to make a profit on endangered animals.

(Or is auction intended to fund conservation group?)
 
OK, so not only is this specific rhino old and sterile, it is also considered a danger to the younger, breeding population because it is very territorial. The man is paying 350000 dollars, that will go towards the preservation of the species, he's killing a rhino that cannot contribute to the species and is actively harming it. I see no wrong in it.
 
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