Are you voting for Obama?
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skiminnesota
Active member
care to back up that claim with any fact?
why does every argument with you go back to south america?
point is it is VERY easy to monday morning quarterback years later, but at the time right after 9/11 the world was in chaos.... America hit back, and hit al qaeda good. and IMO we need to keep our foot on their neck until they are GONE.. IMO and i know you hate me for it, but those are my feelings.
why does every argument with you go back to south america?
point is it is VERY easy to monday morning quarterback years later, but at the time right after 9/11 the world was in chaos.... America hit back, and hit al qaeda good. and IMO we need to keep our foot on their neck until they are GONE.. IMO and i know you hate me for it, but those are my feelings.
Parkboy
Active member
Ignoring the facts? I sure didn't see any facts in your other post. It was just a misleading rant that lead off an idiotic point which clearly shows how disgustingly misinformed you are. For those who missed it, Bermbuster49 just spouted off a bunch of bullshit after saying Obama plans to pay for his proposed programs by pulling out of Iraq.
Perhaps the saddest thing is that 3 people quoted you, one who said you are exactly right, one who said you are their new hero, and one who acknowledged everything you said, who are now in my mind, and surely others, equal imbeciles.
It's ok, you don't have to apologize to me, if anything you can just admit how you were dead wrong.
I just felt the need to call you out because i've seen a lot of your posts on political threads before and I remember what a vacuous mind you have.
Perhaps the saddest thing is that 3 people quoted you, one who said you are exactly right, one who said you are their new hero, and one who acknowledged everything you said, who are now in my mind, and surely others, equal imbeciles.
It's ok, you don't have to apologize to me, if anything you can just admit how you were dead wrong.
I just felt the need to call you out because i've seen a lot of your posts on political threads before and I remember what a vacuous mind you have.
skiminnesota
Active member
parkboy and casual...
guys, the money has to come from somewhere right?
well taxing the rich is taxing the people who create jobs right?
obama is a mess on spending, he really is.
guys, the money has to come from somewhere right?
well taxing the rich is taxing the people who create jobs right?
obama is a mess on spending, he really is.
casual
Active member
Though we certainly disagree in nearly every aspect as it pertains to politics, I find you likable and far less abrasive than the majority of people who insist on posting incendiary bullshit that amounts to little more than fear mongering and propoganda.
I apologize for that obnoxiously long and convoluted sentence.
Now then...
I want to respond to one particular detail of your statement. That detail being, "well taxing the rich is taxing the people who create jobs right?"
Are you familiar with the Fundamental Assumption Error? It's a term most often used in Stat. I think your statement exemplifies this principle nicely.
I'll assume that you are using "rich" to mean business owners. Yes, of course entrepreneurs who start/grow businesses typically hire employees, thus they "create jobs".
Theoretically, you'd want to throw these people a bone and say, "Hey, you know what? It's people like you with the guts and the brains to go for it, that make this country tick...keep your hard earned money and reinvest it and continue to grow this wonderful economy of ours!" I'm all for that. On paper that makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately...something has gone horribly wrong between the granting of those tax breaks and the expected economic boone.
The truth is, that these tax breaks have not led to real growth...atleast not for anyone else. There is no empirical evidence linking tax breaks to job creation. None. We've had taxes cut at exceedingly high levels...and yet unemployment is up. At different times a correlation between tax levels and job growth may exist, but to suggest a cause and effect relationship is unfounded.
The same corporations who are granted the heftiest breaks are those that are outsourcing jobs, and laying off employees at unprecedented levels. So where's the money actually going?
Also, coincidentally no doubt, the disparity in income between the richest and poorest continues to grow...
Take Walmart for example. Walmart sells themselves to small communities as an economic band-aid. "We'll bring jobs, and affordable goods to your lower middle class town!...All you have to do good councilmen/mayor/financier/treasurer is grant us tax shelters for the first 3 or 4 years so we can cover expenses, and Poof!, you guys are rockn' and rolln'!" What they don't say, is that at the end of that term, they will close up shop...abandon a huuuge unusable concrete structure, and open another location just outside that jurisdiction and start over.
Like it or not...we are being exploited. Legislation that is passed for the greater good, is being taken advantage of (a nice counterpoint to the predictable "welfare leaches" argument).
As far as small business goes...being entrepreneurial is inherently risky. But alas, with risk comes reward. That reward however, may not come in the form of tax breaks.
I hear "redistribution of wealth" thrown around a lot, and I think it's ridiculous. Of course those with more money should pay more than those with less. This isn't radical. This isn't communist. It's sense. I hate to break it down so crassly, but this is an internet forum and I bet most won't make it this far into my post.
Blah. I'm burnt out...I can't believe I worked all day to come home and do...this. Anyways, this is officially my last post in this thread.
I apologize for that obnoxiously long and convoluted sentence.
Now then...
I want to respond to one particular detail of your statement. That detail being, "well taxing the rich is taxing the people who create jobs right?"
Are you familiar with the Fundamental Assumption Error? It's a term most often used in Stat. I think your statement exemplifies this principle nicely.
I'll assume that you are using "rich" to mean business owners. Yes, of course entrepreneurs who start/grow businesses typically hire employees, thus they "create jobs".
Theoretically, you'd want to throw these people a bone and say, "Hey, you know what? It's people like you with the guts and the brains to go for it, that make this country tick...keep your hard earned money and reinvest it and continue to grow this wonderful economy of ours!" I'm all for that. On paper that makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately...something has gone horribly wrong between the granting of those tax breaks and the expected economic boone.
The truth is, that these tax breaks have not led to real growth...atleast not for anyone else. There is no empirical evidence linking tax breaks to job creation. None. We've had taxes cut at exceedingly high levels...and yet unemployment is up. At different times a correlation between tax levels and job growth may exist, but to suggest a cause and effect relationship is unfounded.
The same corporations who are granted the heftiest breaks are those that are outsourcing jobs, and laying off employees at unprecedented levels. So where's the money actually going?
Also, coincidentally no doubt, the disparity in income between the richest and poorest continues to grow...
Take Walmart for example. Walmart sells themselves to small communities as an economic band-aid. "We'll bring jobs, and affordable goods to your lower middle class town!...All you have to do good councilmen/mayor/financier/treasurer is grant us tax shelters for the first 3 or 4 years so we can cover expenses, and Poof!, you guys are rockn' and rolln'!" What they don't say, is that at the end of that term, they will close up shop...abandon a huuuge unusable concrete structure, and open another location just outside that jurisdiction and start over.
Like it or not...we are being exploited. Legislation that is passed for the greater good, is being taken advantage of (a nice counterpoint to the predictable "welfare leaches" argument).
As far as small business goes...being entrepreneurial is inherently risky. But alas, with risk comes reward. That reward however, may not come in the form of tax breaks.
I hear "redistribution of wealth" thrown around a lot, and I think it's ridiculous. Of course those with more money should pay more than those with less. This isn't radical. This isn't communist. It's sense. I hate to break it down so crassly, but this is an internet forum and I bet most won't make it this far into my post.
Blah. I'm burnt out...I can't believe I worked all day to come home and do...this. Anyways, this is officially my last post in this thread.
ChrisMercer
Member
Obama holds 260 electoral votes on 270towin.com............WOOT!
I am voting for obama and so is all of my family. Both sides of my family make over $250,000 a year and we will see the affects of his taxes. We live life well, but money is money. Seeing the rest of the country struggle is something that you work to prevent as a human. We provide jobs for other families and hope to secure them through these rough times. We certainly had to let some go in 2000, but we hired them back as soon as we were able to.
Someone was suggesting that their neighbor works his ass off 6 days a week to pay the government. My parents probably make what he does and probably have the same work ethic. My step-dad golfs while conducting business...sounds extremely stressful. I'd hate to be doing that 6 days a week and having a dope house to relax at afterward. Additionally, my dad gets paid for talking to people and exercising his opinions...again so stressful. it's like getting paid $250/hr to post on newschoolers.com
Now, think about the person that is working two jobs that pay minimum wage and they're trying to support children. Who should get some help from the government? Certainly not my parents, give it to the person who is trying to figure out how to put food on the table for young kids, our future generations. If my parents get taxed to help the struggling classes, maybe they won't take a trip like they do every month. It's not going to break them.
Money is money.....don't let it run your life. Being a responsible human is the best thing you can do for our nation. Look where greed has gotten the US and the world is feeling the repurcussions.
Just my 2 cents.....but if smoking weed has taught you anything it should be: "Don't be Stingey. Share the green."
I am voting for obama and so is all of my family. Both sides of my family make over $250,000 a year and we will see the affects of his taxes. We live life well, but money is money. Seeing the rest of the country struggle is something that you work to prevent as a human. We provide jobs for other families and hope to secure them through these rough times. We certainly had to let some go in 2000, but we hired them back as soon as we were able to.
Someone was suggesting that their neighbor works his ass off 6 days a week to pay the government. My parents probably make what he does and probably have the same work ethic. My step-dad golfs while conducting business...sounds extremely stressful. I'd hate to be doing that 6 days a week and having a dope house to relax at afterward. Additionally, my dad gets paid for talking to people and exercising his opinions...again so stressful. it's like getting paid $250/hr to post on newschoolers.com
Now, think about the person that is working two jobs that pay minimum wage and they're trying to support children. Who should get some help from the government? Certainly not my parents, give it to the person who is trying to figure out how to put food on the table for young kids, our future generations. If my parents get taxed to help the struggling classes, maybe they won't take a trip like they do every month. It's not going to break them.
Money is money.....don't let it run your life. Being a responsible human is the best thing you can do for our nation. Look where greed has gotten the US and the world is feeling the repurcussions.
Just my 2 cents.....but if smoking weed has taught you anything it should be: "Don't be Stingey. Share the green."
slevin_kelevra
Member
obama is just doing everything to get his image out there and trying to make it a popularity contest
fact- when Obama toured the middle east he didnt go and visit the injured soldiers because cameras and the media could not go in there. He said he didnt have time yet he still had over an hour a day to go work out
1 vote for McCain here
fact- when Obama toured the middle east he didnt go and visit the injured soldiers because cameras and the media could not go in there. He said he didnt have time yet he still had over an hour a day to go work out
1 vote for McCain here
no more like im the typical american. that dosnt need some liberal piece of shit coming in and saying that he suports the middle class and claims all this bullshit. and then also calls me the same person he claims hes in office for a gun barring hick and shit. its bullshit if all you want to just sit back and wait for the world to turn in on u and put all our lives in jepordy then so be it. ruin it for the rest of us.
lloyd_christmas
Active member
ladies and gentlemen, i give you, the obama supporters.
but honestly i need to be fair to people like drew and others who while i don't fully agree with because i'll be voting for McCain but do know what they're talking about. there are those who do pass judgement on McCain or anyone else when they are completely, 100% clueless. so to those with an idea, thank you.
i don't want to get into an argument, mostly because this thread has been created 100 times over and any point i could make has either been made by someone like papasteeze or will just get questioned and argued by the left wingers (or both).
but to comment on papasteeze's question...i think the majority of obama supporters here are white and middle-upper class, but they've been blinded by the "hippie" ski mentality because of their youth and they aren't rich or paying taxes yet, but sort of living under thier parents or hope to enjoy some of the benefits obama "promises" while "helping and curing" all those who are less fortunate. helping the poor is cool. taxing the way upper class is sticking it to "the man". healthcare for everyone is the only way to be. the government should spend spend spend our money for us. if all this was possible, the problem would have been solved already. obama is nothing but a trendy pick to most of these people.
please people this is a huge election, exercise your right to vote, but for God sake do your research first.
but honestly i need to be fair to people like drew and others who while i don't fully agree with because i'll be voting for McCain but do know what they're talking about. there are those who do pass judgement on McCain or anyone else when they are completely, 100% clueless. so to those with an idea, thank you.
i don't want to get into an argument, mostly because this thread has been created 100 times over and any point i could make has either been made by someone like papasteeze or will just get questioned and argued by the left wingers (or both).
but to comment on papasteeze's question...i think the majority of obama supporters here are white and middle-upper class, but they've been blinded by the "hippie" ski mentality because of their youth and they aren't rich or paying taxes yet, but sort of living under thier parents or hope to enjoy some of the benefits obama "promises" while "helping and curing" all those who are less fortunate. helping the poor is cool. taxing the way upper class is sticking it to "the man". healthcare for everyone is the only way to be. the government should spend spend spend our money for us. if all this was possible, the problem would have been solved already. obama is nothing but a trendy pick to most of these people.
please people this is a huge election, exercise your right to vote, but for God sake do your research first.
ChrisMercer
Member
you have to be joking around.
if not:
i'm glad you're rationally looking at the issues our president needs to address rather than who isn't getting the most press coverage.
Faults in your argument:
1. get his image out there? he is running for president, who doesn't know what he looks like and what his image is? He's been running for a whole year.
2. popularity contest, why was palin running with mccain? oh yeah, her smarts. haha. get real kid.
and this is why mccain is getting votes, mental retardation. at least palin is trying to fix up your schools buddy. Though I have to say it'd be nice if she cared about the abled children and their education as well.
hey but they're mavericks....."I started reading about these issues 5 weeks ago! Were really gonna shake things up in washington!!!!!" [in hick voice] - Sarah Palin.
if not:
i'm glad you're rationally looking at the issues our president needs to address rather than who isn't getting the most press coverage.
Faults in your argument:
1. get his image out there? he is running for president, who doesn't know what he looks like and what his image is? He's been running for a whole year.
2. popularity contest, why was palin running with mccain? oh yeah, her smarts. haha. get real kid.
and this is why mccain is getting votes, mental retardation. at least palin is trying to fix up your schools buddy. Though I have to say it'd be nice if she cared about the abled children and their education as well.
hey but they're mavericks....."I started reading about these issues 5 weeks ago! Were really gonna shake things up in washington!!!!!" [in hick voice] - Sarah Palin.
skiminnesota
Active member
how has higher taxes ever created a new job? all it does is take more
money away from people and business's and they no longer have the money
to create jobs... (they do create government jobs) so dont try and
misinterpret my words.
like you said, small
business takes capital, while if all that excess capital is dried up in
taxes, where is the capital for creating new business?
show
me the wally world example backed up with objective sources... i can
think of 6 walmarts off the top of my head, and they have all stayed in
one location for as long as they have been in place.
i can tell you right now, i had a large sum of money i would hide it if BArack is voted in... i would move that money off shore, and keep it there.
check this out, tax cuts create more investment more investment creates jobs?
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba137.html
Economic Effect: More Investment.
Capital gains taxes affect
investment decisions. In particular, they reduce the amount of capital
available for investments with higher risk potential, such as new
start-ups and companies in emerging sectors. As a result, the capital
gains tax tends to be a direct tax on the entrepreneurship that all
economists recognize as essential to growth.
when there is more investment there is more jobs created. seems like a simple concept right?
think about this for a minute, would you ever create a business in A country, if B country has greatly lower taxes? i wouldnt.
money away from people and business's and they no longer have the money
to create jobs... (they do create government jobs) so dont try and
misinterpret my words.
like you said, small
business takes capital, while if all that excess capital is dried up in
taxes, where is the capital for creating new business?
show
me the wally world example backed up with objective sources... i can
think of 6 walmarts off the top of my head, and they have all stayed in
one location for as long as they have been in place.
i can tell you right now, i had a large sum of money i would hide it if BArack is voted in... i would move that money off shore, and keep it there.
check this out, tax cuts create more investment more investment creates jobs?
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba137.html
Economic Effect: More Investment.
Capital gains taxes affect
investment decisions. In particular, they reduce the amount of capital
available for investments with higher risk potential, such as new
start-ups and companies in emerging sectors. As a result, the capital
gains tax tends to be a direct tax on the entrepreneurship that all
economists recognize as essential to growth.
when there is more investment there is more jobs created. seems like a simple concept right?
think about this for a minute, would you ever create a business in A country, if B country has greatly lower taxes? i wouldnt.
jsaya_SagStraps
Active member
so thats your reason for mccain? interesting. as said somewhere before, its sorta shocking how uneducated and simultaneously passionate most people are on politics.
Hockeyfisher11
Member
You just spoke my mind for me
ChrisMercer
Member
how has higher taxes ever created a new job? all it does is take more
money away from people and business's and they no longer have the money
to create jobs... (they do create government jobs) so dont try and
misinterpret my words.
With Obama, you tax corporations that make over $250k in profit, but if they hire americans and don't outsource they get tax breaks. Additionally, healthcare costs for companies should lower, which is a huge cost of doing business in America...look at the car industry.
money away from people and business's and they no longer have the money
to create jobs... (they do create government jobs) so dont try and
misinterpret my words.
With Obama, you tax corporations that make over $250k in profit, but if they hire americans and don't outsource they get tax breaks. Additionally, healthcare costs for companies should lower, which is a huge cost of doing business in America...look at the car industry.
The proverbial head on the nail has been smashed to smithereens. Very, very astute of you sir.
ChrisMercer
Member
Word.
ChrisMercer
Member
whoops sorry for the double post.
just say palin's new speech......appartently obama is a terrorist. I'm gonna have to switch my vote now. but seriously, how do you mccain voters feel about this garbage?
just say palin's new speech......appartently obama is a terrorist. I'm gonna have to switch my vote now. but seriously, how do you mccain voters feel about this garbage?
skiminnesota
Active member
ok 250k in profit is not exactly a HUGE number....
how is obama going to lower healthcare cost?
answer, give it to people.. wait, someone is still paying for it right? who would that be?
how is obama going to lower healthcare cost?
answer, give it to people.. wait, someone is still paying for it right? who would that be?
Hockeyfisher11
Member
That would be me you and everyone who posts on this site woo hoo!
slevin_kelevra
Member
That's your oppinion and I know I'm not going to change that
people need to do some more research before coming on here and ranting about things they dont know what they are talking about
I just think that Obama will not make a good president
If you look at his past and see the people and organizations he is affiliated with it is kind of scary
Obama has supported an organization called ACORN, and now they are giving donations to his campaign; ACORN has been charged with voter frauds and other registration frauds in at least 13 different states; they oppose,and obama agrees, many voting laws they will secure the accuracy of voting
Also OBAMA has been affiliated with Bill Ayer; Bill Ayer has admitted to participating in over 30 bombings throughout an 11 year period
Obama has funding for his campaign coming from over seas, which is illegal; but a board will not judge the case until after the election because they think it may affect the outcome
There are other radical orginazations and people that Obama is affiliated with and I think people need to research and see who they are really voting for.
Obama sounds good in his speaches and there are some good things he is saying, but people need to look at the whole picture
people need to do some more research before coming on here and ranting about things they dont know what they are talking about
I just think that Obama will not make a good president
If you look at his past and see the people and organizations he is affiliated with it is kind of scary
Obama has supported an organization called ACORN, and now they are giving donations to his campaign; ACORN has been charged with voter frauds and other registration frauds in at least 13 different states; they oppose,and obama agrees, many voting laws they will secure the accuracy of voting
Also OBAMA has been affiliated with Bill Ayer; Bill Ayer has admitted to participating in over 30 bombings throughout an 11 year period
Obama has funding for his campaign coming from over seas, which is illegal; but a board will not judge the case until after the election because they think it may affect the outcome
There are other radical orginazations and people that Obama is affiliated with and I think people need to research and see who they are really voting for.
Obama sounds good in his speaches and there are some good things he is saying, but people need to look at the whole picture
Hockeyfisher11
Member
For sure dude and his speeches sound amazing but there is no substance to back it up...... "Change we can believe in" what is that change to believe in.
You are very right with what you said here. Nicely done!
You are very right with what you said here. Nicely done!
skiminnesota
Active member
ok i was talking healthcare, but thanks for that anyway.
its also almost impossible for my family's house to be foreclosed on, but thanks!
my parents didnt "trade up" like allot of americans did, they have been happy in the same smaller house for 20 years and they have 2 years left to pay on it.
really drew if you want to talk taxes lets go, but it is the same thing over and over... they need money, so lets give them money, its all i ever hear, i never hear any sort of argument other than "feelings" ect against people keeping the money they make.
its also almost impossible for my family's house to be foreclosed on, but thanks!
my parents didnt "trade up" like allot of americans did, they have been happy in the same smaller house for 20 years and they have 2 years left to pay on it.
really drew if you want to talk taxes lets go, but it is the same thing over and over... they need money, so lets give them money, its all i ever hear, i never hear any sort of argument other than "feelings" ect against people keeping the money they make.
skiminnesota
Active member
and before anyone jumps down my throat i knew drew was kidding, so some of my post was a bit "smart assy" on purpose.
skiminnesota
Active member
ok trust me, i know allot about poverty, and different aspects of different social and economic classes.
i have a very firm grip on reality. i would even go as far as to say i have a better grasp than most of NS.
so it really comes down to how you fix it, and i know we differ on that, so lets save it for another thread.
i have a very firm grip on reality. i would even go as far as to say i have a better grasp than most of NS.
so it really comes down to how you fix it, and i know we differ on that, so lets save it for another thread.
It is trendy here on NS to support Obama. The comments like, I am moving to Canada if McCain is elected far outnumber the converse.
Hockeyfisher11
Member
Very true dude very true
skiminnesota
Active member
o yeah, papa. i am moving to canada if Obama is elected! what now!
haha i keed.
haha i keed.
Hockeyfisher11
Member
What if Barack wins.........then did the idiots decide the election?
skiminnesota
Active member
photo ID to vote FTW!
what is so radical about having to prove who you claim to be?
what is so radical about having to prove who you claim to be?
Quinny
Active member
I always find this kind of attitude ironic. As if the person calling the rest of the country idiots is somehow magically different from everybody else and has more knowledge, intelligence, and perspective than the vast majority of the 300 million people in this country. Thats fairly arrogant if you ask me.
natedogg789435
Active member
I didn't realize that till the voting thread a couple of weeks ago. but its true and i didn't think that was the way it was
slevin_kelevra
Member
democrats just dont have any stage presence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFMhECgYckQ&feature=related
haha the guy at the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFMhECgYckQ&feature=related
haha the guy at the end
Hockeyfisher11
Member
Let me guess your college professors brain washed you into 99.9 percent of these radical views?
skiminnesota
Active member
wow drew, you need some {claim} insert your post {claim} haha
are you getting at that you (being smarter) can choose a better president than that individual who is voting?
sounds like the path to something dangerous.
what happened to equality and everyone is worth something.. sounds like your vote should count more than "joe 6pack" on main street who is busy raising his family and working....
are you getting at that you (being smarter) can choose a better president than that individual who is voting?
sounds like the path to something dangerous.
what happened to equality and everyone is worth something.. sounds like your vote should count more than "joe 6pack" on main street who is busy raising his family and working....