Are you republican or democrat
- Thread starter bryceCTS
- Start date
^this, hahaha hit it on the head. communism only works in small villages of 100 people, no powerful economy can support it. Communists dont account for humans having an inherent want/need for power and taking it when they can. Mao Lennin etc all claim communism but are dictatorships where the people have NO power, not all the power, defeating the purpose of communism. period. And i would also wear one of those tall tees
MitchPee
Active member
The funny thing is Lenin is the exact opposite of what you have mentioned. There's a big difference between Leninism and Stalinism. Marx actually used dictatorship of the proletariat which gives the people power. Not saying that this will work or is a good system but check your facts.
I do agree with your stalin/lenin point. but that outlines one of the main problems in communism when in effect, as it(although like other forms of government) can be twisted by the dictator. democracy prevents this because of the peoples choice to vote. the leader in most governments is the key to success not necessarily their politcal orientation, the bolsheivick revolution was very successful under trotsky and lenin but their progress was buried under stalin's regime
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
im a conservative neo-liberal....i hate these threads
MitchPee
Active member
Right, like I said it's not perfect. There is room for exploitation and Stalin made good use of that. Had he not, the system may have evolved into something much much better. You know what I mean though, you obviously get the difference.
There is no perfect system. Capitalism allows for the same amount of exploitation, so as Delphi said communism goes against "everything" human nautre, so does capitalism. Just because you can't conceptualize something doesn't make it any less useful. Again, all economic systems have their weaknesses but I don't think Capitalism is all that much better than Communism/socialism vice a versa. All depends who you are in the system.
Also anyone who can't conceptualize or doesn't know the true origins of these systems should just stop arguing about it and there's a few of you in here who sound like a textbook in 9th grade taught you capitalism/communism/socialism.
There is no perfect system. Capitalism allows for the same amount of exploitation, so as Delphi said communism goes against "everything" human nautre, so does capitalism. Just because you can't conceptualize something doesn't make it any less useful. Again, all economic systems have their weaknesses but I don't think Capitalism is all that much better than Communism/socialism vice a versa. All depends who you are in the system.
Also anyone who can't conceptualize or doesn't know the true origins of these systems should just stop arguing about it and there's a few of you in here who sound like a textbook in 9th grade taught you capitalism/communism/socialism.
caucasian_chad
Active member
me too.
Communism does not work. Not in paper, not anywhere.
However, Capitalism is no better, and I would argue with Delphi about it but if I was as ignorant and selfish in a global, and personal, sense I would probably agree with most of what he has to say, but I'm not and don't. There is no point in arguing, there will always be people to perpetuate conflict and such.
However, Capitalism is no better, and I would argue with Delphi about it but if I was as ignorant and selfish in a global, and personal, sense I would probably agree with most of what he has to say, but I'm not and don't. There is no point in arguing, there will always be people to perpetuate conflict and such.
tommyp1ckles
Active member
libertarian for sure.
yellav
Active member
what paper would that be, american propaganda? with the sheer numbers the human species has come to, communism is an inevitable fate. pure marxist communism has never been demonstrated in the world ever. people need to stop being greedy and selfish and come to recognize we are a world of brothers and sisters.
tommyp1ckles
Active member
communism goes against human nature, a system where there is no incentive for ones hard work and talent will never work. what people really need to realize that the world does not need more strict ideologies that have previously only resulted in numerous wars.
True. I absolutely hated people saying they were "voting for the lesser of two evils"
If somebody doesn't deserve your vote you shouldn't vote for them.
Both candidates were absolutely horrible too. But what do you expect these days. Anybody who legitimately wants change, is never going to get the media wave to ride onto either ballot.
The system is so corrupt these days. But people just keep casting there vote back into it, rep or dem and ignorantly believing they are making a difference.
There aren't two sides to everything. Just because one party is wrong doesn't mean the other is right. Most people can only see the flaws in the other "side", and when you point out all the similar flaws on their "side" they freak out.
It's the only reaction they have left to defend it. They can't debate against the facts in a legitimate argument, so instead they just get angry and yell.
Nothing proves your point better than yelling at people.
Then there's the problem of people hating for the wrong reasons. Bush is an idiot, Obama is a muslim. That kind of stuff. How about the legislation, which they both agree on pretty well.
If people could honestly look at both sides objectively and really look for the truth, the world might not be in such bad shape right now.
Give it a few more years and see how much farther down the tubes we go
Ignorance is not bliss, it is slavery of the mind.
If somebody doesn't deserve your vote you shouldn't vote for them.
Both candidates were absolutely horrible too. But what do you expect these days. Anybody who legitimately wants change, is never going to get the media wave to ride onto either ballot.
The system is so corrupt these days. But people just keep casting there vote back into it, rep or dem and ignorantly believing they are making a difference.
There aren't two sides to everything. Just because one party is wrong doesn't mean the other is right. Most people can only see the flaws in the other "side", and when you point out all the similar flaws on their "side" they freak out.
It's the only reaction they have left to defend it. They can't debate against the facts in a legitimate argument, so instead they just get angry and yell.
Nothing proves your point better than yelling at people.
Then there's the problem of people hating for the wrong reasons. Bush is an idiot, Obama is a muslim. That kind of stuff. How about the legislation, which they both agree on pretty well.
If people could honestly look at both sides objectively and really look for the truth, the world might not be in such bad shape right now.
Give it a few more years and see how much farther down the tubes we go
Ignorance is not bliss, it is slavery of the mind.
thelizards
Active member
Communism failed mostly because it was instituted in places that were not industrialized. The whole point of the revolution of the proletariat is for the industrial workers, to rise up against capitalism (the preferred system of merchants) and band together.
Russia, Cuba, China, Vietnam, African Nations, and Eastern Europe were all unindustrialized regions compared to the rest of the world when they developed 'communism'. Therefore, they basically skipped a whole revolutionary phase... and went from farming-self subsistence economies, to a rapid, poorly excecuted 'industrialization' (killing thousands in the process) and then to a wacky fucked up version of what they THOUGHT was what Karl Marx was talking about...
Thus, Marxism in its true, potential has never been formally tried out. However, soon enough, it's very possible there WILL be a revolution against capitalism in the neer-ish future within industrialized nations. At least according to Marxist theories... Guess we'll find out, who knows..
Russia, Cuba, China, Vietnam, African Nations, and Eastern Europe were all unindustrialized regions compared to the rest of the world when they developed 'communism'. Therefore, they basically skipped a whole revolutionary phase... and went from farming-self subsistence economies, to a rapid, poorly excecuted 'industrialization' (killing thousands in the process) and then to a wacky fucked up version of what they THOUGHT was what Karl Marx was talking about...
Thus, Marxism in its true, potential has never been formally tried out. However, soon enough, it's very possible there WILL be a revolution against capitalism in the neer-ish future within industrialized nations. At least according to Marxist theories... Guess we'll find out, who knows..
Arabian.
Active member
I would prefer a system in which I could do what I want without getting hassled by retards all the time. Where I could contribute with taxes and things, but still have rights, freedoms, and live in a capitalist society. Where my vote actually counted, and the politicians weren't able to sell out for a quick buck or country home. Where we have rational debate without slander or speculation, and people understand logic and avoid logical fallacies. Where we are all sensible and peaceful people without need for greed or war. Where, if we don't necessarily like something, we can still accept it because it is different and unique.
In conclusion, fantasy dreamworld that will never happen.
In conclusion, fantasy dreamworld that will never happen.
I love when people talking about the fail of capitalism were seeing now in america. Really, we haven't seen anything close to true capitalism and def not much comparison in a while.
In a capitalist society there is the ability to succeed and fail, little gov intervention, some real freedom.
We don't have that.
In a capitalist society there is the ability to succeed and fail, little gov intervention, some real freedom.
We don't have that.
people have awful reasons for hating both.l Most people know nothing about whats really going on.
repost from the global warming threads. Other than a mention of it applying to global warming it basically just talks about the extreme government control, and the extreme ignorance of the american people.
"I still think looking at motive is extremely important.
Do you really think if they were out to gain control, the majority or
the researched pushed out front and media articles wouldn't support it?
We've been lied to about many things for years, this would be nothing
knew. And I think that's where most people go wrong. They honesty and
naively believe that they haven't and never will be lied too. That the
news reports the truth.
But that absolutely is crushed by any research. So you really have to dig deep into any major issue and find the root.
Fact the whole copenhagen i mean "hopenhagen" thing is pushing for
making carbon a commodity. They could tax the crap out of that, as if
you weren't already taxed enough. The real problem is, that everything
you do, even living produces carbon.
That means the government or possibly some world organization, would have a major boost in control. That's a major deal.
If you've read any of the legislation passed in recent year you would
know that a good amount of your freedoms were already gone, and the
constitution is almost out the door. Most people have never read
through any of the legislation, but base their opinions entirely on
what they have "researched" by listening to the news or reading some
major studies.
That is a major problem. If you are not getting fed truth, it's almost
impossible to break through and see that something is wrong.
This is not specifically relating to just the global warming issue. It involve many issues and a great part of your lives.
The truth is, the majority of people in the U.S. are completely ignorant to what actually goes on.
They actually believe that voting for clinton, bush, or obama changed something.
The lies run so deep, and critical thinking is almost gone. For most
people it is almost impossible to look at the facts bringing in
absolutely ZERO prior bias. They just can't do it. You in so deep
already, excepting anything different is extremely difficult.
This is not a choice most people are trying to make. It is simply a gut reaction.
What makes you think that they are really trying to save the planet?
When so much of what they've focussed on through legislation and
incremental control increases have given an extreme amount of power to
the government, including this.
Really think about it. If you believe everything your told your never going to break out of it.
What happened to open minded thinking? Seriously. If people used their brains we wouldn't be in as deep as we are now.
Our economy is pretty much completely dead. We would be in a major
depression right now if obama hadn't printed out as much money as he
did. The problem with that, is that just made the problem that much
worse for down the road. The U.S. dollar is worth less than 5% of the
USD pre 1913. A good portion of the freedoms you had, or still think
you have, are gone.
In legislation that has been passed, that you've never actually read, the government has an extreme amount of control.
Capitalism was gone along time ago. We were founded as a constitutional
republic, most people don't even know that, that moved into a
democracy, and then into an oligarchy.
But most of you probably know nothing about that, or have never read any of the legislation like the patriot act.
Read the book 1984, it explains how perpetual war and constant fear of
a horrible but imminent threat, with a steady propaganda stream, can
defy all logic and push the people behind almost anything.
I challenge you to read some of the stuff."
repost from the global warming threads. Other than a mention of it applying to global warming it basically just talks about the extreme government control, and the extreme ignorance of the american people.
"I still think looking at motive is extremely important.
Do you really think if they were out to gain control, the majority or
the researched pushed out front and media articles wouldn't support it?
We've been lied to about many things for years, this would be nothing
knew. And I think that's where most people go wrong. They honesty and
naively believe that they haven't and never will be lied too. That the
news reports the truth.
But that absolutely is crushed by any research. So you really have to dig deep into any major issue and find the root.
Fact the whole copenhagen i mean "hopenhagen" thing is pushing for
making carbon a commodity. They could tax the crap out of that, as if
you weren't already taxed enough. The real problem is, that everything
you do, even living produces carbon.
That means the government or possibly some world organization, would have a major boost in control. That's a major deal.
If you've read any of the legislation passed in recent year you would
know that a good amount of your freedoms were already gone, and the
constitution is almost out the door. Most people have never read
through any of the legislation, but base their opinions entirely on
what they have "researched" by listening to the news or reading some
major studies.
That is a major problem. If you are not getting fed truth, it's almost
impossible to break through and see that something is wrong.
This is not specifically relating to just the global warming issue. It involve many issues and a great part of your lives.
The truth is, the majority of people in the U.S. are completely ignorant to what actually goes on.
They actually believe that voting for clinton, bush, or obama changed something.
The lies run so deep, and critical thinking is almost gone. For most
people it is almost impossible to look at the facts bringing in
absolutely ZERO prior bias. They just can't do it. You in so deep
already, excepting anything different is extremely difficult.
This is not a choice most people are trying to make. It is simply a gut reaction.
What makes you think that they are really trying to save the planet?
When so much of what they've focussed on through legislation and
incremental control increases have given an extreme amount of power to
the government, including this.
Really think about it. If you believe everything your told your never going to break out of it.
What happened to open minded thinking? Seriously. If people used their brains we wouldn't be in as deep as we are now.
Our economy is pretty much completely dead. We would be in a major
depression right now if obama hadn't printed out as much money as he
did. The problem with that, is that just made the problem that much
worse for down the road. The U.S. dollar is worth less than 5% of the
USD pre 1913. A good portion of the freedoms you had, or still think
you have, are gone.
In legislation that has been passed, that you've never actually read, the government has an extreme amount of control.
Capitalism was gone along time ago. We were founded as a constitutional
republic, most people don't even know that, that moved into a
democracy, and then into an oligarchy.
But most of you probably know nothing about that, or have never read any of the legislation like the patriot act.
Read the book 1984, it explains how perpetual war and constant fear of
a horrible but imminent threat, with a steady propaganda stream, can
defy all logic and push the people behind almost anything.
I challenge you to read some of the stuff."
Steezius_Maximus
Active member
liberal for sure that would be an american republican
Steezius_Maximus
Active member
never mind i am
RINGSMUTH
Member
I'd probably be classified as a socialist democrat. I'm guessing 98% of the kids on this site have no idea what that is and think it means I want a dictatorship or something. I know people hate on the idea of distributing wealth because they think that means that they will pay more for things they don't use. The reality is we already have public schools, firemen, and police. If we didn't I think we'd be a lot worse off. Also if we stopped "distributing wealth" by taking away public schools then the poorer Americans wouldn't have access to schooling anymore and they would only become a greater burden to our economy by being less educated. Basically I think everyone should be guaranteed a certain level of living in order for our society as a whole to move forward.
RINGSMUTH
Member
yes that does happen in socialism but not as much as you think. in socialism when you don't work you don't get much, you get enough so that you won't die. the people who would see the biggest difference are the top 10% of U.S. earners who currently own about 70% of all of our assets. some of them did earn their money but there are a lot of people who don't have any ethics and pretty much steal money. you can still get rich in socialism but there are stricter rules on corporations so they can't take all our money and make the average people work for less. the people who end up with more money are the people who worked hard for it.
IRockLizzys
Member
Haha! Oddly enough that's how things work now. Weird huh?!
dman1260
Member
People are greedy and selfish, not by choice but by nature. Every living organism is and has to be to survive. Humans may have escaped this need in some respects due to improved technology and near mastery of their environment, but we are ingrained with this greed and selfishness. Unless this innate desire to thrive and survive dissipates (which it won't), the world will always be plagued by greed and selfishness. As a result, communism will never work. Sorry......