Are we missing something here?

R

RobWatson

Member
With JP Auclair, Andreas Fransson and Liz Daley all lost to the mountains in what appears to be the space of a day or two...is there a bigger picture to look at?

Is big mountain skiing becoming more dangerous with the current climate changes in the world, are the South American mountains becoming even more dangerous? Or is this just the worst coincidental tragedy?

I feel like my dream of big mountain skiing is having a massive fuck you thrown at it with this.

Shred in peace.
 
J.P. and Andreas died doing what they loved. Whenever people ask me why I do one of the most dangerous sports in the world, I tell them a quote C.R. Johnson once said: "The joy I get from skiing, is worth dying for" .
 
As much as we hate to see them go, I'm sure there is nothing else they'd rather die doing. They know the potential consequences just like the rest of us, they were just willing to take those risks to do something they all love. RIP
 
sometimes when it rains it pours... Skiing is a dangerous sport especially when you leave the relative safety of lift access and ski patrol. JP and those who tragically fell before him, knew the risks they lived for being out there in nature in raw untouched wild. When you're out there its a whole different ball game. period. Now is Big mountain skiing getting more dangerous? well The mountains haven't changed much over the millions of years they have been there but the way humans have been have attacking them has gotten bigger and ballsier, so yes its getting more dangerous, but only as dangerous as *you* make it. Obviously climate change does affect the conditions, but we as skiers have to take what we get, and sometimes sketchy conditions have gotten the better of people but that is a whole different can of worms. Yes its tragic but I don't think it should deter your ambitions of skiing big mountain lines. just stay within your limits and be smart, a healthy respect for mother nature will go a long way in keeping you skiing for a lifetime.
 
Crazy stuff. Especially 3 deaths in one day. Really does make you wonder about the big picture. Have there been any reports of snow conditions? It'd be interesting to hear about what conditions were like, especially in the Liz Daley situation since she was the only death in the group.
 
It happens. Skiing is dangerous, especially in an uncontrolled environment.

It sucks when you hear this stuff, but it is part of the game. You understand these risks when you do this stuff.

I am sure more information will come of exactly what happened. People will learn, people will criticize, people will understand.
 
i don't think climate change has much of anything to do with it, people have been dying in avalanches as long as they have been climbing mountains. climbing and skiing big mountains is an amazing activity, but everyone who does it has to know and respect the very real risk of death. SIP to all involved
 
13153278:twoodwardo said:
It'd be interesting to hear about what conditions were like, especially in the Liz Daley situation since she was the only death in the group.
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No way of saying this without sounding like an insensitive dick, but she was likely the only fatality because they were skiing avalanche terrain with good group discipline. I'd be much more interested to hear JP & Andreas's incident report.

I am sad, believe me.
 
13153185:LamieJ said:
As much as we hate to see them go, I'm sure there is nothing else they'd rather die doing. They know the potential consequences just like the rest of us, they were just willing to take those risks to do something they all love. RIP
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I'll tell you, an avalanche is the last way I'd want to go. Seriously. But of course I get what you are saying
 
13153701:Nacho_Macho_man said:
I'll tell you, an avalanche is the last way I'd want to go. Seriously. But of course I get what you are saying
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Repeating this from the Tanner Hall speech, its better than getting hit by a drunk driver or something... They were at least in the mountains, doing what they love, but I don't think anyone really wants to die.
 
First off.. you can't make a trend off a single day. Its like saying because it is snowing outside, global warming must be a lie. (weather vs climate)

The snowpack that day was just very unstable. Both crews got unlucky. RIP.

You could look at the overall trend and see that more people are dying in avalanches each year, but this doesn't necessarily "snow pack" is getting worse. There are just more people out there, with better tech, taking bigger risks.

You could maybe make a point that with decreasing seasonal snowpack, it is in fact getting more dangerous to go into the backcountry (a thin continental snowpack is typically more dangerous than a deep Maritime).
 
These people may been swept into the eternal winter before their time but they sure as hell lived a lot more than most people would in two lifetimes. As the planet runs out of first ascents people who share the drive to feel so alive will be forced to seek out the riskier lines in order to satisfy that thirst.

So yeah I don't think Big Mountain riding will stop progressing until we run out of lines so long as there are people out there like JP and Andreas and Liz and Shane and CR and Doug who wanna live so damn bad.

RIP
 
13153897:TheDoughAbides said:
These people may been swept into the eternal winter before their time but they sure as hell lived a lot more than most people would in two lifetimes. As the planet runs out of first ascents people who share the drive to feel so alive will be forced to seek out the riskier lines in order to satisfy that thirst.

So yeah I don't think Big Mountain riding will stop progressing until we run out of lines so long as there are people out there like JP and Andreas and Liz and Shane and CR and Doug who wanna live so damn bad.

RIP
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*may have been dammit
 
Bad things can happen in the mountains. Lost 2 of my idols in 2003. Craig kelly and jeff anderson. Craig bailed out on contests and left the whole scene behind and spent all his time riding big mountain. In 03 he died in an avy.

Bad shit happens. Sometimes it doesn't make sense but it happens. Hold on to the legacy they leave behind. Some of these guys/girls skiing/boarding did far more in their short lives than most people do in a full life.

SIP/RIP
 
JP was one of a limited few heroes I have ever had and I am very sad to see him pass.

I think this is reflective of the bigger picture. Ski mountaineering and full time back country skiing is a relatively new element to the professional ski world. At the least, it is on an entirely new scale. People have been doing it (and passing away) forever. The difference now is the professional career that has been added to the mix. Previsouly the people were relatively unknown. Now that skiing icons are doing these routes and ascents it is heard much louder when one passes. I also worry that now because peoples careers are built or sustained from this style of skiing that their decisions are being affected. Previously it was quiet solemn rock climber type characters doing that sport with no one watching. Now, who knows the pressures that are affecting the finely balanced mind game of ski mountaineering. I'm not saying they are doing it for the paycheque and won't turn back until they get the shot but the smallest details can affect ones decision making. JPs trip was very public. I have been watching it develop for a week. Andreas' entire career was built on this stuff. They had a camera man and a cinematographer. These guys are not dumb. THey are extremely skilled and elite athletes but when the leading avalanche researchers have data proving something as insignificant as two more people joining a group affecting decision making, how can we say that all the above won't affect them.

We've seen what happens in Alaska (glorified avalanches catching people regularly) and I worry about career mountaineers collecting ski porn and the additional factors that affect them.

I'm going to miss JP.
 
funny, i was thinking this to myself last night. and i think we ignore the reality. yes avalanches have always happened, but the question is have the drastically increased due to the climate change. we're seeing a lot of shift in conditions, from local hills to backcountry, every year. as someone who does believe in aspects of global warming, i asked myself how much longer will the opportunities be around to ski bigger mountains, will they soon become too unstable? will i live to see a world without snow, or less snow? or is that just a future i'll never live to see? but at the back of my mind, i know too, that skiers and snowboarders look for more challenging, and new terrain often. in art of flight travis rice and & co travel to alaska, and they know where they're going is dangerous, and the specifically seek out an area that is super questionable. that being said, i also wonder a lot about redbull. heck, without it, there would maybe be less in the sports world today, but i just wonder, with redbull in the hindsight of a lot of deaths, i just wonder who's pushing who? i'm not blaming them, i'm just uncomfortable with the notion of the liason.
 
It's an interesting question, but a correlation between snowpack stability and decade scale changes in climate doesn't seem likely. I think a trend could exist however, we don't have the computational power to model something like that with any confidence.

Think about the variability of snowpack from winter to winter: amount of precip., snow depth and accumulation rate, number and location of weak layers, temperature trends. Pretty much every factor influencing snow stability changes yearly.

That is why avy forecasters have to rely on heuristic approaches and very broad patterns when relating stability information to backcountry users.

Unfortunately, this is a very tragic coincidence and I will be spending my day watching Reasons, Yeah Dude!, and Area 51.

SIP JP, Andreas, and Liz, thanks for the inspiration!
 
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