another stupid post about the iraq conflict

timbojones

timbojones

Member
I would like to know how many people out there think we should not go to war with Iraq, and how many people think we should? NO COMPLICATED ARGUEMENTS PLEASE!!

timbo jones isnt my real name
 
sure it is...example WWII: what would have happened if we hadn't fucked with the Nazis...hm, they probably would have just got bored and stopped on their own, right? Wrong. There is a time and place for everything, now may or may not be the time for war, but war is often a necessary evil of society that must take place for the greater good.

''You should be more considerate of the level of beginners.''

''Haha, are you kidding me? You should be more respectful of the level of experts, chica.''

 
i'm all for war if it needs to be done. but about Iraq, i'm all for it. Saddam needs his ass kicked! If people were so Anti-war back during he civil war or WWII...we wouldn't be able to enjoy the freedom we have in this great country. Just think about that next time you or somebody else starts bitchin about anti-war bullshit

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People werent anti war back in thew day because it wasnt nessisary, now and past times its nessisary

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
ill tell ya where wed be if we hadnt fucked up the nazis, wed all b speakin german and wearin knee high panzy boots

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Alex

Screw Moseley!

Guerilla Trooper of the Silent Army

::Viva la Resistance!::
 
WE SHOULD GO TO WAR WITH THAILAND!

If you have been paying attention to the news, you will know that Thailand is poised at taking of all of central Asia. Their influence has spread even to the western countries through their CRAPPY THAI FOOD.

NOOOOOOOOO I CAN FEEL THE EVIL WORKINGS INSIDE MY BODY!

Make a man a fire, he will be warm for a while. Set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.
 
Fuck Iraq.... NUKE FRANCE...

if you care enough about the above statement message me, i have a 500 word agrument to back it up.

^^^Drop into the Pipe and Smoke it^^^
 
ok all i here is arrogance all this fucken casual talk about 'should we go to war with iraq''what do you guys reckon'

Meanwhile i bet Men, Women and Children in Iraq are shaking themselves to sleep and praying to something they have faith in but have never seen!

while us western mother fucks think we're all hot shit and like 'should we bomb them or not' like its our choice to kill other human beings we want at free will! FUCK that heirachy. FUCK YOU! man im sad to call myself western.

FUCK G.W.B get it in to your head, NO ONE FUCKEN LIKES YOU, resign and make the world happier!

FUCK its a bigger thing than that! ofcourse you shouldn't fucken go to war with iraq, im saying you shouldn't even be thinking about it!

peace.

everyone knows ERIK GHINTS SUCKS! so why portray it dudes?

Lagwagon. Is it legal to marry a band?
 
ok all i here is arrogance all this fucken casual talk about 'should we go to war with iraq''what do you guys reckon'

Meanwhile i bet Men, Women and Children in Iraq are shaking themselves to sleep and praying to something they have faith in but have never seen!

while us western mother fucks think we're all hot shit and like 'should we bomb them or not' like its our choice to kill other human beings we want at free will! FUCK that heirachy. FUCK YOU! man im sad to call myself western.

FUCK G.W.B get it in to your head, NO ONE FUCKEN LIKES YOU, resign and make the world happier!

FUCK its a bigger thing than that! ofcourse you shouldn't fucken go to war with iraq, im saying you shouldn't even be thinking about it!

peace.

everyone knows ERIK GHINTS SUCKS! so why portray it dudes?

Lagwagon. Is it legal to marry a band?
 
Oh for fucks sake, shut the hell up

You can't even compare this situation to that of WW2, how the fuck can you even think of comparing them? Damn some of you guys are thick, and so bloody ignorant, shut the fuck up.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

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'WWII: what would have happened if we hadn't fucked with the Nazis..'

how the hell can you compare WWII to what is going on in IRAQ? First of all the Americans arent the reason we eventualy won, considering the Americans took there time to join the war and only did when they got attacked, cause you know if it doesn't effect them then it doesn't matter right? Secand we had good reason to try and stop Hitler,at the time he was killing jews and invading a couple countries i don't see Sudam threating anyother countries right now. All they is said is that they would try to defend themselves if the US attacked which i think is very fair, you can't let the bully when

'proud citzen of the NS Isle'

BE YOURSELF
 
I don't think we can trust Saddam not to try attacking us or other countries in the future. And it could possibly be with chemical or nuclear weapons. That's why I think he should be removed.

 
I can compare World War 2 to this imminent war with Iraq in that Hitler was let to do his own things while others turned the other cheeck. That's kind of what has been going on with Saddam and now the US is stepping up and saying that we should stop Saddam before he does something stupid.

 
funny how the US turned the other cheek at the beginning of the world war, wierd

'proud citzen of the NS Isle'

BE YOURSELF
 
That really has no relevance to this discussion. It happened in the past, it's not related to this problem, and no one back then is working today.

 
of course it related your trying to compare WW2 to Iraq and im showing how it is so different

'proud citzen of the NS Isle'

BE YOURSELF
 
So we have established that just before World War 2 countries turned the other cheek to Hitler for awhile at first. Then what happened? He started World War 2. Here's our chance to learn from history. Saddam should be stopped now before he starts bombing countries in the future.

 
so should we attack everyone country that we think could be a threat? we have no evidence but we think that they are doing something bad so lets go get them. You can't go to war without a lot of evidence backing you up. Hell what about Castro the states don't like him he might be a threat lets go bomb him.

'proud citzen of the NS Isle'

BE YOURSELF
 
whoh tim, you got mad. I have never seen you mad like that...

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No, we shouldn't start wars with everyone who might be a threat. We're not attacking North Korea because diplomacy could work. We've tried diplomacy with Iraq. They said they would disarm after the Gulf War ended, but there are no signs of that. It's a safe bet that Iraq is hiding weapons of mass destruction given what has happened with the inspectors.

 
'its a safe bet' well that does it for me im convienced now. LETS GET THEM. we are really sure that they have big weapons, we don't know how but we think and thats good enough for us. and about North Korea they are not being very Diplomatic, just like Iraq they are not allowed to have weapons of mass destruction yet they just started making them, that we have proof of so why not go get them? tons of evidence there,

(im not trying to say we should be attacking north korea just proving a point)

'proud citzen of the NS Isle'

BE YOURSELF
 
As I mentioned before with North Korea diplomacy could work.

And as for the proof, here's quote from a guy on another message board that I read:

'So when the UN inspectors showed up as a truck was leaving and they were refused access to it, that truck was probably just carrying cotton candy. And the satellite photos showing a before and after picture was probably of a Toy's R Us that went out of business just as the UN inspectors were about to show up.

Get a clue. You actually expect Saddam to show you a picture of himself standing next to a really big missle? We've got proof. You just don't like the proof.'

Weapons of mass destruction aside, he's still causing problems within his own country.

 
Yes what mtw said. The very reason WW2 started was due to the fact that no one did anything until it was too late. They just let the situation play out hoping things would fix themselves. This is indeed very similar. Who is to say that something super big would start if we did nothing, but why chance it. I believe it has been said that WW3 will be our last.

You want proof. Commonsense will get you that. How about the fact that Saddam wasnt willing to let inspectors in to begin with. He knows he has to, so he obviously had something to hide.

As far as North Korea goes. That is a much hairier situation to begin with, and its not like you can just run away from the current problem that has already been committed to. Korea could still come into play.

Someone stated we had good reason to go at Hitler because he was killing Jews. The final solution didnt start until about midway through the war. Iraq has already killed 130000 of their own. Only a few years ago, Nato, led by the US, went against Slbbadan, and he never even killed that many (as far as I know.) So in a way the states would be justified in this war even if Iraq wasnt breaking UN sanctions. And yes Saddam did invade Kuwait, and who is to say he wont do it again.

I would also like to know what the reason is the allies eventually won WW2 if it wasnt the states. Yes it was a joint victory, but how else would it of happened had the states not joined?

And for my final point, you should refer to my latest post in the other Iraq conflict thread. You said 'considering the Americans took there time to join the war and only did when they got attacked, cause you know if it doesn't effect them then it doesn't matter right?'---- This is exactly what I was trying to explain in the other thread. Before the US got shit on for not caring about others problems and now they are getting even more shit on because they do. Its been said already, but the top dawg will always be disliked, no matter what they do.

I wish some of you would think more deeply than just saying 'war sucks' and 'war never brings anything good'

 
Anyone remember where Hussein got the cash and expertise to kill 130 000+ Kurds? Well, the answer might hurt...

The US and Iraq were allies back when that happened(late 80s early 90s) because Hussein was all about attacking Iran. The US fed Iraq cash, weapons, and the expertise to make more, so that they'd have an easier time in their war with Iran/killing hundreds of thousands of their own people. When the US had a chance to intervene in the early early stages of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, they didn't, instead saying 'We have no opinion in regards to your border disagreement with Kuwait'. Only later did the US decide that the Kuwait/Iraq war was something they had to get involved in(perhaps because gas prices were through the roof...perhaps not.). And only now is the Kurd Genocide finally a reason to blow the shit out of Iraq...Not 10-15 years ago, when Saddam was actually killing Kurds.

It could therefore be argued(not by me, but by someone else.) that the United States created its own problem 10-15 years ago, is now reaping what it sowed, and desperately trying to kill it. What was that about the US 'going in early' to save lives and be good humanitarians??? History's a bitch isn't it?

Saddam still causing problems within his own country? Quite possible, but so are Bush and Chretien. No one seems to care that the UN sanctions against Iraq have been estimated to have killed more people than Saddam's Kurd Genocide either. Also funny that the US is so ready to go to war when it really won't affect their general population. No American will have to see dead bodies in their backyards, no American will have to live in fear of having a 'precision laser-guided weapon' land in the wrong spot, like 80% of them did in the Gulf War(and please dont' start with 'but we live in fear of a terrorist attack everyday'. You dont' live in Isreal, so just think of yourselves as lucky), and only a very small percentage of Americans will actually be affected by the death of a brave, noble, American soldier who was sentenced to death by his/her own government. I'm not going to claim that war is always an 'evil thing', but it needs to be VERY WELL justified before we jump into it.

Oh, anyone wanna tell me where Bin Laden and the former Taliban leader are? Or are they just too hard to blow up? Wasn't one of the major goals of the Afghan war to bring those 2 to 'justice'?

Message to: Jib_This

Message from: NewO

Date Sent: 2003-02-11 17:33:01

ur a dumb shit

'i'm not too bright sometimes, when i turn my mind off school'

Nolan, after I reminded him of what a verb in the past tense was.
 
The US should stop policing the world. Nobody asked 'em to, and no body wants 'em to.

Make a man a fire, he will be warm for a while. Set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.
 
Yes your right, history is a bitch. Lets keep saying how the US is responsible for all their own problems. Refer again to my theory in the other thread on why I believe the muslim world hates the West and specifically the states. I would like to here your version.

You know I also have a funny feeling that when the US did supply these weapons and money (which may or may not have happened) they didnt intend or know that it would be later used against them. Im also thinking that that money has long since been used up and that the weapons they did supply them with are now out of date and virtually useless anyway.

The Gulf War also happened to be a UN war so the US did whatever the UN did. So............... Im not sure what your saying there.

So are you saying the US isnt humanitarian? Maybe they arent the type of humanitarians you would like them to be, but on a relative scale of humanitarianism compared to all the other countries, im sure the US is at the top.

But you may continue to believe the US are in the wrong, but I for one am pretty thankful that they are who they because I cant wait to see what happens if they ever lose their superpower status and the world becomes one giant bitch slapping good time.

 
i agree with Anson, the US should stop policing the rest of the world, the UN basicly is saying the same thing. And in iraq most people are happy not huddling in the corner of there shacks wishing saddam was dead, there ignorant of his evil and its because of the propaganda SO WHAT! let them do it they like him, not us bombing them.

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
The US isn't trying to police the world. There are other conflicts going on that they aren't invovled in. Iraq is a threat to the US, which is why they're being dealt with.

 
So who would? No one? Thats a great idea. While we're at it why dont we all run outside and start randomly firing our guns at stuff. Do drink and drive. And whoever said rape was bad.

When you say something, try to think about what you are actually saying. And instead of just saying what shouldnt be done by this and that, come up with a better idea. Your probably right. No one did come up to the states and ask them to be a global police. They saw the need and stepped up to the plate. Or maybe it would have been better if say North Korea was the world police. For about a month and then everyone would be dead.

 
Someone stated we had good reason to go at Hitler because he was killing Jews.

---------------------------------

Wait a second here...it seems to me the one stepping the most out of line is George Bush, he's basically stated that hes going to go in whether the U.N. says he can or not...it seems to me the one out of line and the one causing death for profit and idealism here is none other than the president of the United States.

The allies won WW2 because of EVERYONE INVOLVED, not the united states who were bombed into it 2 years into the war.

As for North Korea, they have stated officially that any U.N. sanctions placed on them will be considered a declaration of war and they will 'proceed accordingly'. They have VERY recently threatened surrounding countries with nuclear weaponry, now you tell me who's more volatile??

Whatever I'm sick of all this crap, I've made post after post about how this war is so people die for corporate profit. It's disgusting that so many people can follow that so blindly because they saw that 'people from Iraq hate us' on the media. Or them talking about France now, how just because they don't want to go to war and have thousands die that suddenly they're 'siding with saddam hussein' fuck that shit man, that's stupid, it's an isolationist ignorant comment and i'm sick of all this shit. Look at all the anti-war protests, millions of people. but good ol' GWB's gona keep that corporate cock up his ass and go kill some families in Iraq. Whatever, it's just digusting

Mayor of NS Isle

If you don't make it the first time, you need to go bigger
 
Who would police the world?......THE UN!!!

the problem is we dont have faith in the un!

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
MTW, you're fucking stupid mate. The world didn't at all turn the other cheek in the second world war. Not even in the slightest. Is the whole concept of 'appeasment' foreign to you or something?? How dumb are you really?? The world didn't want another repeat of the 'Great War' (1914-1918, also known as World War One). Hitler started to invade other countries for 'leibensraum' (living space). He was appeased by the allied nations because they didn't want a war. THAT IS NOT TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK! You are a useless motherfuck, go back to your text books and LEARN bitch! God damn people like you piss me off, stupid ass ignorant retards.

And no, you can't even BEGIN to compare this situation to Hitler and WW2. There is no similarity, to suggest it is outrageous. Saddam is stupid. Hitler was incredibly intelligent, he was brilliant and he was the best public speaker the world has ever seen. Bush is also very stupid, very poorly articulated and not very smart. Where's the similarity? Oh yeah, that's right, THERE IS NONE!!

And where's the genocide from Iraq? I don't see it. He's oppressing his own people sure but that's different. That's not ruling out nationalities as useless, that's not putting himself and his people above everyone else! If anyone's doing that it's George Bush mate.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*

@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@

%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
 
Let the UN police the world? It's a wonderful idea... wait a minute! The UN is made up of many many countries... when was the last time they came to an agreement? And who backs the UN up when shit hits the fan? Yep; us.

I don't think a frontal war should take place. It was def necessary in WWII etc... BUT here there are better options. Did somebody say blackops?! Send in SEALs, small contingents to hunt down and destroy his weapons. THEN, deny any involvement. We can play his pussy-ass game too. We take out his shit the same way Brit SAS did in the gulf war. Covert baby, then pretend it never happened...who's gonna care if Saddam whines about his destroyed weapons?

- Brian

 
if the UN gets there shit together, they would meet up and disscuss the real issues and come to agreements, but unfortunatly we are taking away from that and slowly becoming the dictator of the world

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
im not saying for the us to give up all rules or what ever, and for people to go out and rape and shit, I just think that if the nations of the world had a more organized system of thought and disscution that things would work out better, and we could remain a superpower,

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
Sims, you're fun because you know your stuff. I respect that, though I might not always like what you're saying. Now that that's done with...

Yes, the US DID give Saddam Hussein a lot of weapons and a lot money, not to mention satellite imagery of where Iranian troops were, so Saddam could gas them. The US was not opposed to this. Yes, the US knew about the Kurd situation long ago. They didn't do anything about it. Now no one else did either, so the fact that the US didn't do anything doesn't make them any worse than anyone else. Just remember where the weapons, cash, and the knowledge to make the weapons came from. Also, it wasn't the first time the US supported a brutal dicdatorial regime. Oh, by the way, the US also funded Bin Laden when Afghanistan was being invaded by Russia. Al-Quaeda operatives were trained with US special forces methods, and still have Stinger missiles thanks to the US, and they still work.

History, still a bitch...

Why does a part of the Muslim world hate the west? Lots of reasons, and you seem to be right, at least partly. Unfortunately, you approach it from the stereotypical 'western' point of view, IE Muslim people hate America because we have more than they do. You forget about the fact that the US, more than anyone else, has try to force their culture on the entire world. They have succeeded, in large part due to multinational corporations like McDonalds and Disney(Surprise, many terrorists bomb McDonalds outlets, cuz they think it makes a statement). You might not know that other parts of the world have a different view on life, and that they don't necessarily want fast food, chain stores, malls, and what they see as destruction of their views and belief system, all for the sake of progress. Yes, they want clean drinking water(something Iraq had before we bombed the shit out of them), good hospitals(again, Iraq had those before the Gulf War too) a more representative form of government, and a leadership that respects human rights as the muslim population sees them. With the correct form of help(and don't ask me what that is, I don't have all the solutions, wish I did though...), all of this is achievable. Could the biggest problem be the cultural imperialism going on right now? Could it be that instead of trying to fix problems with cooperation, we still see it as an 'us vs. them' issue? Maybe if we looked at ALL the issues surrounding conflicts right now, and had a real, honest, open dialog, we could solve most of the problems the world is dealing with without having to bomb/kill/maim/destroy. And if things STILL don't work out after an HONEST EFFORT BY EVERYONE(including the US. That means that they're going to have to start paying their UN dues, and NOT bullying/monopolizing/blackmailing the security council), then it MIGHT be time for more drastic actions, including, but not limited to, war.

Message to: Jib_This

Message from: NewO

Date Sent: 2003-02-11 17:33:01

ur a dumb shit

'i'm not too bright sometimes, when i turn my mind off school'

Nolan, after I reminded him of what a verb in the past tense was.
 
One more thing, I forgot to mention

Sims: you're right, the money supplied to Iraq may have been used up, but since it was money related to arms development, its impact is still felt today. And you're right, the US might not have known the weapons were going to be used against them, but they knew they were being used to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent Kurds.

Message to: Jib_This

Message from: NewO

Date Sent: 2003-02-11 17:33:01

ur a dumb shit

'i'm not too bright sometimes, when i turn my mind off school'

Nolan, after I reminded him of what a verb in the past tense was.
 
Jib this, i agree with alot of what you said about us maiking mistakes through out history, as far as funding and that we gave osama bin laden cia traning and stuff, but were not yet a perfect super power, we could currently be making mistakes. rarely in history has ther been a perfect super power. And the muslim world is pissed at us for a shit load of reasons. you might be suprized when i say that there angry because of our archtechure. One of the people that flew planes into the twin towers was a muslim archetect. they hate how bland and plane our achetecture is and theres is complex and deitaled. (among other things) just some food for thought

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
Tim: Appeasment is what I was meaning by turning the other cheek. They were hoping to not have another war by appeasing him, but obviously that didn't stop World War 2 from happening. Had they stopped him earlier, more lives would have been spared.

And again I'm saying that is similar to what is going on now. People want Saddam left alone because they think Saddam won't be a problem. But the Bush administration thinks Saddam will be a problem (just like Hitler turned out to be), so they want to deal with him now instead of later when, say, he may nuke Israel away.

 
really? who told you they knew they were going to be used for that? we also sell f-16s to countless other countries my friend, but guess what...if its used negatively then guess what?!?! we are clear to engage and eliminate. if i sell you a gun and then you shoot at me guess what buddy?!?! i am gonna return fire. your argument sucks! and guess what???? there wouldnt be mcdonalds all over the world if there wasnt a demand for them!!!!!!!!! somebody is keeping them in business!!! the muslim world has always resented the west because of our seemingly capitalistic means. its nothing new...and its either us or somebody else. and since it is us(THE USA)that take on the role of top dawg we are faced with the shit storm. you have to understand we(USA) didnt equip anybody with weapons whether it was the taliban or saddam for FREE. we sold them....and if they didnt buy from us then they would have bought from somebody else. and either way we(USA) would have gone in and helped things if the weapons were being used in a negative manner. so either we make some money and then act as humanitarians or we dont make money and we still act as humanitarians. the choice is easy for me to see.

Taste Death. Live Life.
 
You're absolutely right, no superpower is perfect. But no superpower, as far as I know, has supported 'evil doing'(I use that term because it's one of Bush's favourites...) regimes and KNOWN TERRORISTS like the US.

And yes, I am surprised that one terrorist's reasons for flying a plane into the world trade centre and killing himself in the process was that he didn't like the architecture. I'd love to know where you read/saw/heard of that, because it really doesn't sound right to me. I believe that they flew planes into the world trade centre towers in an effort to cripple the US and world economies, to show the world that they could do it, to attack a symbol of capitalism, and to finish off what they had tried to do years earlier(1993?) when they bombed the centre with a truck bomb. But hating the architecture? Give me a source for that, and I might be more inclined to believe it...

Message to: Jib_This

Message from: NewO

Date Sent: 2003-02-11 17:33:01

ur a dumb shit

'i'm not too bright sometimes, when i turn my mind off school'

Nolan, after I reminded him of what a verb in the past tense was.
 
oh my lord; informed opinions! so so good to see.

just to be a dick for no reason: jib_this: when we aided osama and co. the soviet union was invading afghanistan, not russia ;-)

I still think we should fight fire with fire at this point. Play Saddam's game... slink around and slowly pick him apart. The training that Special Air Services, SEa Air Land, Delta, etc.. all receive is 100x more involved difficult than basic training that the majority of our soldiers in the M. East have received. I say we use these guys for what they were trained for... deceive, destroy, deny. Haha I just made that up; slick.

- Brian

 
yeah ok, but bush isnt perfect if he was no one would go against him nessisaraly, i dont think war is the way to go about this, there still isnt raw evidence of saddam having nukes. War could possibly destroy the US rather than other contrys, the economy wont go up but the death rate will in the world. And if there was a stronger UN than the world could deal with not having to turn a cheek on iraq or whatever.....than i rolled a blunt

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
about the archetecture, i heard it from my social studies teacher so i dont have any source to back that up, but that was one of many possible reasons, I believe you about weaking american economy, that makes sence

Timbo Jones isnt even my real name.
 
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