Another mass shooting

[S.J.W]

who said that? Why are you putting words in my mouth?

I believe in more freedoms than just that. This thread is about guns. If you want to talk about making America more free then start another thread. I will participate.

But guns does not equate to freedom. If they did every other country would have them as a right and an essential freedom. Owning a gun would be in the UDHR, but it's not. That's because every other country has realised guns do more harm than good.

 

[louie.mirags]

But guns does not equate to freedom. If they did every other country would have them as a right and an essential freedom. Owning a gun would be in the UDHR, but it's not. That's because every other country has realised guns do more harm than good.

The right to bear arms in this country equates to freedom. But it is not the only freedoms. There are tons of personal freedoms we can discuss but let's stay on topic.

guns are a big part of a lot of lives in America. And a few broken people are not going to ban guns for all responsible users.

 

[.Hugo.]

A. You lost your freedom to drive drunk when drunk drivers started crashing and killing folks.

B. I got news for you, if you think you have a chance against the US military using small arms... You don't. And that is the most canned response going. People like guns and want guns cause guns are fun. If you are truly honest, you will admit that is the reason. Fighting the countries military doesn't happen in reality, this isn't fucking Red Dawn lol.

Damn right guns are fun. If you dont enjoy shooting targets, clays or even just a damn dirt mound you probably havent shot a gun.

But thats not the only reason people have them

Despite that America is sitill number 9 on the Human freedom Index....

Despite that america could still kick the shit out of every one of the countries above it

 

[corona]

Despite that America is still number 9 on the Human freedom Index....

#20 actually.

 

[onenerdykid]

It is about freedom. Why do other people committing crimes mean that I have to lose my freedoms? People drive drunk and kill people and cars are still legal.

The 2nd amendment has to due with protecting the people from the government and self defense and not just to do with recreation.

I forgot to respond to this.

But you didn't lose your freedom to drive a car. We already don't have the freedom to murder innocent people. So why would I lose my gun freedoms because somebody else murdered somebody?

People killing people driving drunk means no drunk driving

People killing people with guns means no more murders.

this is not important enough to keep going but with your logic if people drive drunk and kill people then drunk driving is made illegal. If people kill people with guns then murdering becomes illegal. Just like the vehicle is not made illegal, the gun is not made illegal. What do you not understand about that?

There are a few issues with this argument. The first is that, why would you conclude that if someone drives drunk and kills someone, that the conclusion is to make driving illegal. Why not make alcohol illegal (with regards to this example)?

Second, we cannot equate cars and guns. While they are both tools, they have vastly different purposes and these purposes are inherent in their design. Cars are made for transport, guns are made for weaponry. When cars are used and people die, it is usually an accident not intended within its inherent purpose. When guns are used and people die, it is completely foreseen given its inherent purpose as a weapon. If cars and guns would be considered equal tools of equal purpose, then people would be confused as to which they should use for transport and for self-defense, which is obviously not the case. And it is exactly the reason why we give the front line of the military a gun and not a Toyota.

 

[onenerdykid]

Despite that america could still kick the shit out of every one of the countries above it

Ah yes, might equals right. The glorious mantra of every jock with an IQ equal to his shoe size.

 

[californiagrown]

this is not important enough to keep going

aaaaand this sums up the right wings' view on school shootings. Just not important enough. smh.

 

[californiagrown]

Damn right guns are fun. If you dont enjoy shooting targets, clays or even just a damn dirt mound you probably havent shot a gun.

But thats not the only reason people have them

Despite that america could still kick the shit out of every one of the countries above it

no shit shooting is fun. so is blowing shit up with dynamite... eveer done that? its a blast

Im sure RPGs and grenades are fun as shit too, but those are illegal... hmmm i wonder why?

 

[.Hugo.]

Ah yes, might equals right. The glorious mantra of every jock with an IQ equal to his shoe size.

Sounds like someones a little jealous

no shit shooting is fun. so is blowing shit up with dynamite... eveer done that? its a blast

Im sure RPGs and grenades are fun as shit too, but those are illegal... hmmm i wonder why?

You wanted someone to say shooting guns is fun so i did.

Well a handgun, shotgun and rifle arent really on the same level as rpgs and grenades

 

[louie.mirags]

no shit shooting is fun. so is blowing shit up with dynamite... eveer done that? its a blast

Im sure RPGs and grenades are fun as shit too, but those are illegal... hmmm i wonder why?

you're acting childish and condescending instead of actually having a discussion. In other words, quit trolling and have a conversation.

 

[louie.mirags]

There are a few issues with this argument. The first is that, why would you conclude that if someone drives drunk and kills someone, that the conclusion is to make driving illegal. Why not make alcohol illegal (with regards to this example)?

Second, we cannot equate cars and guns. While they are both tools, they have vastly different purposes and these purposes are inherent in their design. Cars are made for transport, guns are made for weaponry. When cars are used and people die, it is usually an accident not intended within its inherent purpose. When guns are used and people die, it is completely foreseen given its inherent purpose as a weapon. If cars and guns would be considered equal tools of equal purpose, then people would be confused as to which they should use for transport and for self-defense, which is obviously not the case. And it is exactly the reason why we give the front line of the military a gun and not a Toyota.

I see what you're getting at but the comparison I am getting at is people driving drunk and killing people does not ruin drinking or driving (not at the same time) for responsible drinkers and responsible drivers. Just like a broken human being using a gun to murder innocent people should not result in ruining guns for responsible users.

And guns are also for hunting and recreation as much as they are tools for killing people.

Again, my main point through all of this is we have issues with the American culture in having a negative side effect - people with broken brains who carry on plans of mass murder. This is not completely a gun issue. These broken people will still be out there.

 

[californiagrown]

you're acting childish and condescending instead of actually having a discussion. In other words, quit trolling and have a conversation.

No you are. Defending something that kills lots of innocent people, all because you have fun with it.

Not everyone is as responsible as you, you know?

 

[louie.mirags]

No you are. Defending something that kills lots of innocent people, all because you have fun with it.

Not everyone is as responsible as you, you know?

and not everyone can responsibly drink, so let's ban alcohol next. Not everybody can responsibly drive, so let's ban cars.

Not everyone is as responsible as you, you know?

Let's avoid focusing on the fact that our culture produces these mass murderers.

 

[onenerdykid]

Sounds like someones a little jealous

How so? And of what?

I'm definitely not a pacifist, and I have been in more than my fair share of fights (both competitive and non). I'm just able to recognize that when presented with an argument that people can't win or don't know how to win they resort to mindless violence. Your post encapsulated that perfectly, which is more or less "if we can't be better than them, let's beat them up". Let's turn on the Jock Jams and let it rip!

 

[californiagrown]

and not everyone can responsibly drink, so let's ban alcohol next. Not everybody can responsibly drive, so let's ban cars.

Not everyone is as responsible as you, you know?

Let's avoid focusing on the fact that our culture produces these mass murderers.

Cars are a neccesity. Guns are not.

Alcohol is not a weapon for killing. Guns are.

Let's better address mental health issues, but also realize this ain't pokemon... Can't catch em all. But we can try to mitigate their access to weapons.

Your fun shouldn't outweigh my safety.

 

[.Hugo.]

How so? And of what?

I'm definitely not a pacifist, and I have been in more than my fair share of fights (both competitive and non). I'm just able to recognize that when presented with an argument that people can't win or don't know how to win they resort to mindless violence. Your post encapsulated that perfectly, which is more or less "if we can't be better than them, let's beat them up". Let's turn on the Jock Jams and let it rip!

Oh ya youre defintely jealous.

#banidiotsnotguns

 

[louie.mirags]

Your fun shouldn't outweigh my safety.

your safety is not in jeopardy. Don't be such a pussy

 

[SKI.ING]

You're certainly onto something. If you take away suicide and gang-on-gang murders, the US has remarkably low gun fatality rates. Like was said before, the vast majority of these crimes are happening in large inner cities.

I also believe the lack of gun safety, familiarity, and knowledge has a HUGE part of this. And no, going out and shooting a buddies shotgun once a year doesn't mean you have any of those skills. I'm talking about owning, maintaining, and shooting regularly. I have absolutely no actual facts about it, but I wonder how many of these shooters grew up around guns responsibly. Those who grew up hunting, trap shooting, or target shooting starting at a young age, mentored by responsible adults. I would be willing to bet that VERY few did.

http://news.yahoo.com/writings-ore-gunman-ranted-having-no-girlfriend-080456993.html

There you go buddy. Shooter grew up around guns his whole life. Mom is an avid shooter. Idk why you keep bringing up gun familiarity. Just read the article and I don't know how you can deny change is needed. She kept all these guns fully loaded for her would be intruder and knowing she has a mentally unstable son. I don't get why you guys are acting like asses. If a homicidal/suicidal maniac goes home and can't find a gun, he'll probably just kill himself and not all those other people. Big brother isn't coming to repo your fucking gun collection.

 

[SKI.ING]

So what's your suggestion? What laws would you enact that would have prevented this past school shooting, or any of those in the past? All I keep hearing from people are "guns are bad" and "we need to change the laws" but absolutely zero substance.

I already did earlier. First, a better online database of mental history for someone. If they check in somewhere, or have medication, etc. that information needs to be directly tied to them when trying to purchase a gun. Like the Santa Barbara shooter had been seen by cops and therapists (months before), yet that information did not show up when he purchased a gun. There needs to be better communication on this front. Second, longer waiting period because things like this take a while to manifest and I feel less would slip through the cracks with more time. Third, periodically there should be some type of check of where these weapons are. I mean it should be known there's a woman with 14 guns that are easily available to her unstable son. The rest are the run of the mill.

Mass shootings aside (crazy white kids usually)...I wonder how major a contribution the relative "breakdown of society" has on gun crime/murder rates. Single parent households, rampant poverty, less person to person interaction. A lot of gun crimes happen in large cities where the youth turn to gangs and crime as a means for survival. Do all of the other countries mentioned in the gun control arguments have those problems? Huge gang numbers and underground drug trafficking rings?

Uhhhh yes. So instead of targeting the specific problem in a realistic way, the better solution is to try and induce nationwide, systemic change on poverty??? Like I can't even. And I don't recall these shooters being poor gangbangers, so please stay on topic. And I know you said mass shootings aside, but people are applying this logic to the problem so I had to address it.

 

[qazwsxedc34]

http://news.yahoo.com/writings-ore-gunman-ranted-having-no-girlfriend-080456993.html

There you go buddy. Shooter grew up around guns his whole life. Mom is an avid shooter. Idk why you keep bringing up gun familiarity. Just read the article and I don't know how you can deny change is needed. She kept all these guns fully loaded for her would be intruder and knowing she has a mentally unstable son. I don't get why you guys are acting like asses. If a homicidal/suicidal maniac goes home and can't find a gun, he'll probably just kill himself and not all those other people. Big brother isn't coming to repo your fucking gun collection.

I’m sorry I don’t base a single corporate media news article as evidence. Seeing that there is no source except heresy and seeing that the US government repealed the Smith Mundt act which gives the federal government great power to covertly influence public opinion by way of propagandizing via media.

No I really don’t believe a yahoo article that doesn’t source the material.