Another mass shooting

[deleted5]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon-college-shooting/

The man who opened fire at Oregon's Umpqua Community College on Thursday is dead, Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin told reporters.

No police officers were injured, but preliminary information indicates 10 people were killed and more than 20 others injured in the shooting, according to Oregon State Police spokesman Bill Fugate.

I've accepted that pro gun people will never accept change, and that this is just going to be something we're going to have to live with.

 

[urbanjib]

Ok, so I am pro-gun, but understand the resistance against them due to what is going on.

This is literally so tragic...

But WHY is this all happening now? You used to be able to walk in a hardware store and buy a gun, be able to take your rifle to school before youd go hunting. So why has it started to increase so much in the late 2000s?

Glorification on social media? ( not so much in a good way, but a way for someone whos no one, to become someone)

 

[JahFeels]

Check out the thread the shooter made on 4chan. Followed by a bunch of kids waiting for op to deliver. He did.

 

[deleted5]

Ok, so I am pro-gun, but understand the resistance against them due to what is going on.

This is literally so tragic...

But WHY is this all happening now? You used to be able to walk in a hardware store and buy a gun, be able to take your rifle to school before youd go hunting. So why has it started to increase so much in the late 2000s?

Glorification on social media? ( not so much in a good way, but a way for someone whos no one, to become someone)

It's because of BOTH mental health, and gun control, no idea why people try to separate the two.

 

[theBearJew]

http://www.candidslice.com/killer-p...urs-before-umpqua-community-college-massacre/

What the fuck. People on the internet are so fucked. How can you tell someone to do that shit, not only tell them to do it, but give advice. What the fuck is wrong with people. The internet is not some make believe world where what you say doesn't matter. It does. Fuck man.

 

[Mingg]

http://www.candidslice.com/killer-posted-warning-on-4chan-hours-before-umpqua-community-college-massacre/

What the fuck. People on the internet are so fucked. How can you tell someone to do that shit, not only tell them to do it, but give advice. What the fuck is wrong with people. The internet is not some make believe world where what you say doesn't matter. It does. Fuck man.

I don't know the backstory but I really don't think people thought he was serious. This is the only forum I've ever used so maybe I'm just (unintentionally) ignorant. I just don't think people could possibly have said those things if they thought he was actually going to do what he did...

 

[T.L.]

I don't know the backstory but I really don't think people thought he was serious. This is the only forum I've ever used so maybe I'm just (unintentionally) ignorant. I just don't think people could possibly have said those things if they thought he was actually going to do what he did...

Here's the full thread. There are some fucked up people on the internet.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZGEjT1ilSUJ:https://archive.moe/r9k/post/22785729/

 

[iFlip]

Check out the thread the shooter made on 4chan. Followed by a bunch of kids waiting for op to deliver. He did.

That is so incredibly fucked up. He was literally the one in a million internet troll who wasn't trolling. I sincerely hope that 4chan will seriously reconsider some of the fucked up shit that gets posted on there.

 

[theBearJew]

That is so incredibly fucked up. He was literally the one in a million internet troll who wasn't trolling. I sincerely hope that 4chan will seriously reconsider some of the fucked up shit that gets posted on there.

The more I think about it the more it pisses me off. Internet troll or not, you don't fucking encourage that shit. What does that give you? What do you get out of encouraging someone like that who is joking? Oh you called them out? Good job fuckface. Why not just ignore them rather than give them the attention they want for making some shit up like that.

Now here you have a guy who wasn't trolling like you said, he was serious. And now you have fuck faces on the internet who are not only encouraging him but giving advice. I would be perfectly fine if the FBI tracked down the people who gave advice and encouraged him and arrested them for accessory to murder. Make a fucking example, its not okay to joke about this shit. The people that are serious about it need help, psychological help, and encouraging them to carry out their terrible thought/ideas does nothing.

 

[Spagett+]

4chan is full of such shitty people.

 

[ANDR01D]

The more I think about it the more it pisses me off. Internet troll or not, you don't fucking encourage that shit. What does that give you? What do you get out of encouraging someone like that who is joking? Oh you called them out? Good job fuckface. Why not just ignore them rather than give them the attention they want for making some shit up like that.

Now here you have a guy who wasn't trolling like you said, he was serious. And now you have fuck faces on the internet who are not only encouraging him but giving advice. I would be perfectly fine if the FBI tracked down the people who gave advice and encouraged him and arrested them for accessory to murder. Make a fucking example, its not okay to joke about this shit. The people that are serious about it need help, psychological help, and encouraging them to carry out their terrible thought/ideas does nothing.

As fucked up as those people are for encouraging him, think of the legal precedent that would be set by convicting people solely on what they said on an internet forum. Knee jerk reactions to horrible events have done some crazy things to this country.

Lets just round them up and sacrifice one a year to the snow gods for a powder filled winter.

 

[Titus69]

Here's the full thread. There are some fucked up people on the internet.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZGEjT1ilSUJ:https://archive.moe/r9k/post/22785729/

Thats literally so fucked up that someone gave advice on how to smoosh the kids together and mow them down, thats not even trolling that kid should be fucking investigated.

Im not neccesarily pro gun I see why its such a big dispute but still think its our right to own one but not something fucking crazy unless you have some certification shit. The media also keeps butt fucking these stories and its still going on, Im sick of hearing annoying ass liberal news at dinner complain about it along with my parents laughing at the NRA people.

 

[skierman]

But WHY is this all happening now? You used to be able to walk in a hardware store and buy a gun, be able to take your rifle to school before youd go hunting. So why has it started to increase so much in the late 2000s?

Glorification on social media? ( not so much in a good way, but a way for someone whos no one, to become someone)

This isn't a recent issue... this has been going on for decades.

 

[jblaski]

Yet another shooting in a "gun free" zone. It's funny, these mentally deranged people continue to choose places where they won't meet any resistance (schools, theaters, churches) thanks to liberal polices and rules that make everyone "safer"

 

[scratchproteen]

Yet another shooting in a "gun free" zone. It's funny, these mentally deranged people continue to choose places where they won't meet any resistance (schools, theaters, churches) thanks to liberal polices and rules that make everyone "safer"

The "gun free" zones are what get me, these shootings continue to happen in these places. It's open season, sure these people may have severe mental health issues, but with all those issues they all know one thing, and that is they will come into the least resistance possible in the gun-free zones.

 

[270on420out]

I'm starting to think we should have armed national guard members in public. Our country is not as safe as we think.

 

[S.J.W]

Yet another shooting in a "gun free" zone. It's funny, these mentally deranged people continue to choose places where they won't meet any resistance (schools, theaters, churches) thanks to liberal polices and rules that make everyone "safer"

And how mass shootings have been stopped by a good guy with a gun? Just a regular joe blow, not an off duty police officer or a vet but just a regular citizen with no police/ military background.

 

[PeppermillReno]

This is what happens when you have a society full of athiests who think they know everything. Add in the fact there are movies like Saw that encourage this and its OK for people to like movies like that and see how popular women fist fighting has become and that normal people spend money to watch it and this shit isn't surprising.

 

[scratchproteen]

And how mass shootings have been stopped by a good guy with a gun? Just a regular joe blow, not an off duty police officer or a vet but just a regular citizen with no police/ military background.

None, because regular ole joe blow good guy doesn't bring a gun into a "gun-free" zone. Mean while mentally fucked mass shooter guy wants to kill a bunch of people, and they will do it where ever they choose, but if they want it to be easy, with no resistance, they will choose a school, a mall, a church, a movie theater.

Then we all start talking about it, slap it all over the internet, let the world see it, basically glorify it. Meanwhile also mentally fucked up mass shooter kid v2 who replied on that 4chan thread, and is possibly considering something like this, sees all this attention this guy got, and the cycle begins again.

 

[yungcigsmoker]

We need to do something about guns. Although nothing will get done, because American culture has an unhealthy fetish with firearms. Like the one guy said above, I'm perfectly fine with national guard members in public. Because I trust them.

I do not trust Joe-blow with a gun.

And it baffles me that semi auto rifles are still legal. No one living in the US needs one.

 

[S.J.W]

None, because regular ole joe blow good guy doesn't bring a gun into a "gun-free" zone. Mean while mentally fucked mass shooter guy wants to kill a bunch of people, and they will do it where ever they choose, but if they want it to be easy, with no resistance, they will choose a school, a mall, a church, a movie theater.

Then we all start talking about it, slap it all over the internet, let the world see it, basically glorify it. Meanwhile also mentally fucked up mass shooter kid v2 who replied on that 4chan thread, and is possibly considering something like this, sees all this attention this guy got, and the cycle begins again.

I was talking abou the mass shootings that happen in places which allow guns. How many mass shootings have been stopped in those places?

And I will disagree that these people that commit mass shootings are choosing their target because it's a gun free zone. This FBI report found that 63% of the 160 mass shootings which happened between 2000 and 2013 the shooter chose the location based on emotional reasoning. And also within that study 65 happened in open spaces and around 25 of the shootings happened where concealed carry is allowed. (still no brave bloke with a gun stopped the shooting though).

I am also going to raise another point, to which many gun nuts will ignore gun free zones. Now of course that is just an opinion piece and it doesn't reflect gun owners as a whole. But from the paranoia I've seen from the right about Obama and taking away their guns it does seem rather plausible that many gun owners will ignore these signs because of their second amendment right to own guns.

 

[Mingg]

And I will disagree that these people that commit mass shootings are choosing their target because it's a gun free zone. This FBI report found that 63% of the 160 mass shootings which happened between 2000 and 2013 the shooter chose the location based on emotional reasoning. And also within that study 65 happened in open spaces and around 25 of the shootings happened where concealed carry is allowed. (still no brave bloke with a gun stopped the shooting though).

Is there evidence that someone nearby was actually was carrying at the time though? Sure it may be legal there but if no one is carrying then it's not really a valid statistic.

 

[S.J.W]

Is there evidence that someone nearby was actually was carrying at the time though? Sure it may be legal there but if no one is carrying then it's not really a valid statistic.

Yeah most certainly there's no statistic which can find how many people had a gun on them whilst a mass shooting occurred. However you can use current concealed carry permits and make a rough guestimation as to the chance someone had a concealed weapon. Oregon has a population of 3.97 million people with 194,162 conceal carry permits. Meaning 20% of the general population have concealed carry permits. Now I couldn't find any numbers on the percentage of people who have a concealed carry permit but don't use it, but considering gun owners love to flaunt their guns I'm going to assume a safe percentage of those permit holders will take their gun everywhere. So we can make the safe assumption that there should have been at least one person in the general area with a gun on them.

 

[deleted5]

Yet another shooting in a "gun free" zone. It's funny, these mentally deranged people continue to choose places where they won't meet any resistance (schools, theaters, churches) thanks to liberal polices and rules that make everyone "safer"

So let me get this straight your argument is give everybody a gun then no one will need a gun and the gun crisis will be solved?

 

[broto]

I'm starting to think we should have armed national guard members in public. Our country is not as safe as we think.

this isn't the answer, though. you're letting him win. don't try to stop the events from unfolding when they do, make sure it won't even happen in the first place. and i'm not saying ban all guns or make everywhere gun free. i'm talking about the actual root causes. the lack of available help for people with mental health disorders in the us, the media's reactions to such events, letting people live in infamy forever, etc.

our country is safer than it's ever been, don't let fox news tell you anything different. at a conservative estimate ~5000 people per day in the U.S. you have far more reason to be petrified of getting into your car and driving on the interstate than walking around a college campus, theater, etc. you're about as likely to get killed by a terrorist or mass shooter as you are to get struck by lightning. technology has made our world very small (shouts out L1) and a side effect of that is that distant events are covered on national news, and you get a perception bias. i'm sick of the fear mongering in this country. mass shootings are a problem that needs to be solved, yes, but they're blown out of proportion because they're very scary and traumatic when they do happen.

people die in droves every day by way of car accidents, homicides, obesity, suicide, drowning, and so on. and this is not to downplay the lives of all of those lost in today's tragedy. may they rest and peace and may their families find peace somehow.

but seriously, fuck these isolated incidents causing people to live their lives in fear. they're fucked up, but chances are they probably won't happen to you. same thing goes with a car accident, although you're way more likely to die in one of those. to put it into perspective, even if 1000 people died from mass shootings this year (a very generous number), that would mean you had roughly a 1,000/300,000,000 chance of dying from such an incident. that's 1 in 300,000. i'll take those odds any day. for further perspective, over 30,000 people die each year in car accidents. if you're scared of mass shootings and get into your car everyday with no second thoughts, you're just being dumb.

again, i'm not downplaying the tragedy of these events. just saying you shouldn't live in fear because of them.

/endrant

 

[Mingg]

Yeah most certainly there's no statistic which can find how many people had a gun on them whilst a mass shooting occurred. However you can use current concealed carry permits and make a rough guestimation as to the chance someone had a concealed weapon. Oregon has a population of 3.97 million people with 194,162 conceal carry permits. Meaning 20% of the general population have concealed carry permits. Now I couldn't find any numbers on the percentage of people who have a concealed carry permit but don't use it, but considering gun owners love to flaunt their guns I'm going to assume a safe percentage of those permit holders will take their gun everywhere. So we can make the safe assumption that there should have been at least one person in the general area with a gun on them.

Yeahhh thats a lot of guessing and assuming so it's hard to really say. You could be right but idk.

No matter what the damn gun laws are criminals will still find a way to get guns, there will still be gun violence out there, there will still be murders, and there will still be bitching and complaining from both sides.

 

[skierman]

Is there evidence that someone nearby was actually was carrying at the time though? Sure it may be legal there but if no one is carrying then it's not really a valid statistic.

Does that even matter? I find it absurd there are so many people in this country who cannot stay on topic but instead focus on "what ifs" or "maybe this" situations and eventually resort to baseless fallacies to try upholding a useless and broken system. Use logic and facts.

The fact of the matter is that mass shootings happen and will continue to happen regardless if a place is "gun free" or not. No one that is reasonable claims a place being designated as "gun free" will prevent a mass shooting.The one consistent fact is that these mass shooters are not hardened criminals. They obtain their firearms and ammunition legally. Fun fact: The Aurora shooter purchased thousands of armor-piercing rounds online without so much as a background check. The Columbine shooters? Purchased everything online. Another fun fact: 40% of all gun sales in this country are done in private without a background check and that's completely legal. In the past year, it had only become a law that someone must go through a background check to purchase a gun at a gun show and even that faced heavy opposition.

We're talking about mass shootings. We're not talking about the rare story of an armed responsible gun owner stopping a bad situation. We're not talking about criminals and how they circumnavigate current laws. We're talking about how easy it is for mentally disturbed and potentially dangerous individuals obtaining firearms because of our lack of gun laws.

And yet you find nuts saying that its more reasonable to spend billions more in treating/forcing treatment on people with existing or developing mental health issues, while not even considering passing a simple common sense law to help prevent those people from obtaining a gun legally. God forbid a responsible gun owner has to register a firearm or has to wait a week before they can get another gun.

 

[jblaski]

Oregon has a population of 3.97 million people with 194,162 conceal carry permits. Meaning 20% of the general population have concealed carry permits.

Your math is boarder-line retarded

 

[Mingg]

Does that even matter? I find it absurd there are so many people in this country who cannot stay on topic but instead focus on "what ifs" or "maybe this" situations and eventually resort to baseless fallacies to try upholding a useless and broken system. Use logic and facts.

Well like, dude I was responding to something SJW said... I wasn't saying anything about a "what if" or "maybe this"... I asked if there was evidence. He implied those with a gun didn't stop the shooting but also never gave proof that someone had a gun to begin with. I'm not arguing a side at all, chill.

 

[skierman]

Well like, dude I was responding to something SJW said... I wasn't saying anything about a "what if" or "maybe this"... I asked if there was evidence. He implied those with a gun didn't stop the shooting but also never gave proof that someone had a gun to begin with. I'm not arguing a side at all, chill.

Its a perfect example of how easily these discussions get sidetracked. The rest doesn't pertain to you at all because as you stated, you're not arguing a side.

 

[ANDR01D]

Oregon has a population of 3.97 million people with 194,162 conceal carry permits. Meaning 20% of the general population have concealed carry permits.

More like 4.89%, but I guess when you spend all your time being a douchebag on the internet, you don't have much time to learn math.

 

[Mingg]

Its a perfect example of how easily these discussions get sidetracked. The rest doesn't pertain to you at all because as you stated, you're not arguing a side.

So I can't ask a question for clarity on what someone else is trying to argue..?

 

[skierman]

So I can't ask a question for clarity on what someone else is trying to argue..?

No, you don't have my permission.

 

[Mingg]

No, you don't have my permission.

Awe nuts. Well I'm sorry for bothering you, skierman.

 

[scratchproteen]

I was talking abou the mass shootings that happen in places which allow guns. How many mass shootings have been stopped in those places?

And I will disagree that these people that commit mass shootings are choosing their target because it's a gun free zone. This FBI report found that 63% of the 160 mass shootings which happened between 2000 and 2013 the shooter chose the location based on emotional reasoning. And also within that study 65 happened in open spaces and around 25 of the shootings happened where concealed carry is allowed. (still no brave bloke with a gun stopped the shooting though).

I am also going to raise another point, to which many gun nuts will ignore gun free zones. Now of course that is just an opinion piece and it doesn't reflect gun owners as a whole. But from the paranoia I've seen from the right about Obama and taking away their guns it does seem rather plausible that many gun owners will ignore these signs because of their second amendment right to own guns.

Look we can hammer out statistics all day long on the subject, I'm sick and tired of being labeled as some gun nut because some crazy bastards use them in stuff like this. I've taken gun safety, at 12 years old, am 26 now. Have handled numerous guns in 14 years, never have I once used it irresponsibly because we know what the outcome can be. I've used a gun to put food in the freezer, get rid of gophers in hay fields for 50 cents a tail back in my teenage summers, taken down coyotes who ate our chickens, put down the family dog when she was to old to go on, and just for fun shooting clay and targets. For me a gun is a tool, just like a tape measure. I'm not going to let a bunch of people, who likely have never even had a gun in their hands tell me that I can't have it. When everyone is calling for more strict regulations, more background checks, etc it's not going to prevent a mentally ill mass murderer from acquiring their gun. It's going to make it more difficult than it already is/prevent me, the average every day American from getting one, and that is where you get your "paranoia."

 

[jblaski]

Fun fact: The Aurora shooter purchased thousands of armor-piercing rounds online without so much as a background check.

For the record, James Holmes did NOT have armor-piecing rounds or bullet proof vests.

 

[theabortionator]

I saw it this morning but didn't want to make a thread.

Idk. As long as these things are blown up in the news for weeks/months/maybe even years, people will keep doing it.

I think it excites us in someway. Tune in to the news and jerk off to bad shit happening to people.

 

[deleted5]

Look we can hammer out statistics all day long on the subject, I'm sick and tired of being labeled as some gun nut because some crazy bastards use them in stuff like this. I've taken gun safety, at 12 years old, am 26 now. Have handled numerous guns in 14 years, never have I once used it irresponsibly because we know what the outcome can be. I've used a gun to put food in the freezer, get rid of gophers in hay fields for 50 cents a tail back in my teenage summers, taken down coyotes who ate our chickens, put down the family dog when she was to old to go on, and just for fun shooting clay and targets. For me a gun is a tool, just like a tape measure. I'm not going to let a bunch of people, who likely have never even had a gun in their hands tell me that I can't have it. When everyone is calling for more strict regulations, more background checks, etc it's not going to prevent a mentally ill mass murderer from acquiring their gun. It's going to make it more difficult than it already is/prevent me, the average every day American from getting one, and that is where you get your "paranoia."

For the record, James Holmes did NOT have armor-piecing rounds or bullet proof vests.

So what about every other country that's ever existed that has these regulations and not this problem? I hate the argument that I'm mentally disturbed person can just walk over to a criminal house and buy a gun. It's a lot harder than you think, and if you are so well trained and safety I don't know why you're against other people properly learning gun safety before they get a gun. You also never gave a solution to the problem for you saying it can't be solved.

 

[APunx176]

This is what happens when you have a society full of athiests who think they know everything. Add in the fact there are movies like Saw that encourage this and its OK for people to like movies like that and see how popular women fist fighting has become and that normal people spend money to watch it and this shit isn't surprising.

You're blaming this on people who don't believe in god? There is literally no correlation between atheists (you even spelt it wrong) and mass shootings.

 

[JGWI]

Canada's system is starting to look better and better with each one of these shootings. Being a gun owner I truly feel something BIG needs to happen if we are to ever stop this. Not banning large capacity magazines or even assault rifles for that matter. We need a solid system in place that insures only those capable of having wepons have them. I mean like, a system that you dread going through because the process is such a pain in the ass. And I'm not speaking soley for the victims of mass shootings, I'm talking about the tens of thousands that are killed each year by people who have no business owning a gun. Im sick of paying an arm and a leg for ammo after each one of these shootings because everyone is paranoid.

 

[itzki]

Shit like this is what really fucks me up. These fucking sociopaths plot their fantasy school shooting, and post it on the Internet for anyone to read. It's like some cool, calculated process with them. Or these insensitive bastards make jokes about guys doing this shit not even a full day after it occurs. What the fuck is wrong with people. At least the anon planning to rob a bank and then delivering didn't cause any innocent person to die. That was amusing. This is fucked up.

anon robs a bank:http://m.imgur.com/gallery/bqyiC

 

[onenerdykid]

Fun fact: The Aurora shooter purchased thousands of armor-piercing rounds online without so much as a background check. The Columbine shooters? Purchased everything online. Another fun fact: 40% of all gun sales in this country are done in private without a background check and that's completely legal. In the past year, it had only become a law that someone must go through a background check to purchase a gun at a gun show and even that faced heavy opposition.

We're talking about mass shootings. We're not talking about the rare story of an armed responsible gun owner stopping a bad situation. We're not talking about criminals and how they circumnavigate current laws. We're talking about how easy it is for mentally disturbed and potentially dangerous individuals obtaining firearms because of our lack of gun laws.

And yet you find nuts saying that its more reasonable to spend billions more in treating/forcing treatment on people with existing or developing mental health issues, while not even considering passing a simple common sense law to help prevent those people from obtaining a gun legally. God forbid a responsible gun owner has to register a firearm or has to wait a week before they can get another gun.

Look we can hammer out statistics all day long on the subject, I'm sick and tired of being labeled as some gun nut because some crazy bastards use them in stuff like this. I've taken gun safety, at 12 years old, am 26 now. Have handled numerous guns in 14 years, never have I once used it irresponsibly because we know what the outcome can be. I've used a gun to put food in the freezer, get rid of gophers in hay fields for 50 cents a tail back in my teenage summers, taken down coyotes who ate our chickens, put down the family dog when she was to old to go on, and just for fun shooting clay and targets. For me a gun is a tool, just like a tape measure. I'm not going to let a bunch of people, who likely have never even had a gun in their hands tell me that I can't have it. When everyone is calling for more strict regulations, more background checks, etc it's not going to prevent a mentally ill mass murderer from acquiring their gun. It's going to make it more difficult than it already is/prevent me, the average every day American from getting one, and that is where you get your "paranoia."

Canada's system is starting to look better and better with each one of these shootings. Being a gun owner I truly feel something BIG needs to happen if we are to ever stop this. Not banning large capacity magazines or even assault rifles for that matter. We need a solid system in place that insures only those capable of having wepons have them. I mean like, a system that you dread going through because the process is such a pain in the ass. And I'm not speaking soley for the victims of mass shootings, I'm talking about the tens of thousands that are killed each year by people who have no business owning a gun. Im sick of paying an arm and a leg for ammo after each one of these shootings because everyone is paranoid.

America needs to wake up and realize that you can't give people the right to own dangerous weapons without making them register them and take mental health exams & operating/safety courses at regular intervals post sale.

Background checks at the time of sale/prior to sale are for sure needed, but the government's duty to protect its other tax paying citizens cannot stop there. Make gun owners register their guns and make them pass yearly mental health exams and yearly gun operation/safety courses. Do more to educate people, do more to find out who has mental health issues.

 

[S.J.W]

More like 4.89%, but I guess when you spend all your time being a douchebag on the internet, you don't have much time to learn math.

I just forgot to add a 0 or something, common mistake.

 

[S.J.W]

Look we can hammer out statistics all day long on the subject, I'm sick and tired of being labeled as some gun nut because some crazy bastards use them in stuff like this. I've taken gun safety, at 12 years old, am 26 now. Have handled numerous guns in 14 years, never have I once used it irresponsibly because we know what the outcome can be. I've used a gun to put food in the freezer, get rid of gophers in hay fields for 50 cents a tail back in my teenage summers, taken down coyotes who ate our chickens, put down the family dog when she was to old to go on, and just for fun shooting clay and targets. For me a gun is a tool, just like a tape measure. I'm not going to let a bunch of people, who likely have never even had a gun in their hands tell me that I can't have it. When everyone is calling for more strict regulations, more background checks, etc it's not going to prevent a mentally ill mass murderer from acquiring their gun. It's going to make it more difficult than it already is/prevent me, the average every day American from getting one, and that is where you get your "paranoia."

Yeah because stricter gun regulation is working terrible for Switzerland. Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownerships in the world and doesn't see all the problems associated with America's gun laws. In Switzerland every male is conscripted into the military for some time, and in this time undergoes proper training and mental health checks. If you fail either of these you are not allowed a gun. You are also not allowed a gun if you have a criminal record, or a history of mental illness.

So, yes stricter gun regulation will make it harder for the mentally ill to get a gun. Correct gun regulation works and if you're more worried about how hard it is for you to get a gun than to the 33,000 people that will be dead by the end of this year due to guns then you are part of the problem. Gunr regulation works, we've seen it in countries like Australia (where by the way I can still own a gun), in Canada and even in Switzerland.

 

[Bogs]

Is there evidence that someone nearby was actually was carrying at the time though? Sure it may be legal there but if no one is carrying then it's not really a valid statistic.

Does it matter? The argument was that allowing people to carry guns will make people safer and stop shootings like this from happening, or at least end them sooner. We know that some of these mass shootings are taking place in places where citizens are allowed to carry guns, and none of them have been stopped by citizens carrying guns, making the whole "well if we let everyone have guns wherever they want they would stop stuff like this" argument look rather weak.

That's the thing people who think more guns will keep us safer seem to forget. In theory, yeah it sounds great to be able to say that if you have a gun you could stop these mass killers, but theory doesn't account for how piss-yourself scared 99% of the population would be if a mass shooting suddenly took place in a mall they were in. If you're walking around minding your own business and all the sudden someone starts shooting everyone in sight, there are very few people who would think "right, time to get my gun out, stand up to this guy, and be a hero" as opposed to "oh shit, this guy is killing everyone he lays eyes on, I better fucking run and hide."

 

[theBearJew]

Headlines say he is visibly upset, but he also looks visbily like he doesn't give a shit about the people who died. There are parts of this response where he does look upset, but there are also parts where he looks like hes holding back a smile and having a good time up there talking about gun control. Am I crazy or does anyone else see that in the response by Obama?

 

[Bogs]

God forbid a responsible gun owner has to register a firearm or has to wait a week before they can get another gun.

This exactly.

For me a gun is a tool, just like a tape measure. I'm not going to let a bunch of people, who likely have never even had a gun in their hands tell me that I can't have it. When everyone is calling for more strict regulations, more background checks, etc it's not going to prevent a mentally ill mass murderer from acquiring their gun. It's going to make it more difficult than it already is/prevent me, the average every day American from getting one, and that is where you get your "paranoia."

I don't think there are many people saying that responsible gun owners such as yourself shouldn't have guns. They're saying people (who are most likely severely mentally ill) who acquire them for the sole purpose of using them to kill other people shouldn't be allowed to legally obtain them. Even if these mass killers would find a way to get their guns illegally, shouldn't we at least TRY to stop them? It's the equivalent of arguing "well, if someone really wants to break into my house, they will, so why even lock the door at night or when I leave? Hell, why even close it?" The fact that you seem to disagree about this is pretty incomprehensible. That's the problem with America right now, nobody is willing to make a single compromise on anything. It's no longer the "high road or low road," it's become: "my road or no road at all you asshole, how dare you take away my rights."

 

[louie.mirags]

I'm starting to think we should have armed national guard members in public. Our country is not as safe as we think.

Our country is safer than the news wants you to think. The last thing we need is more policing. This is a free country and we do not need the army patrolling everywhere. The more control the government gets, the worse the problems will get. And the common man would never be able to stand up against big government if there were government henchman (national guard) patrolling the streets. I hate to break it to you but the army patrolling in public would not stop a killer from murdering 10 people in a classroom.

We need to do something about guns. Although nothing will get done, because American culture has an unhealthy fetish with firearms. Like the one guy said above, I'm perfectly fine with national guard members in public. Because I trust them.

I do not trust Joe-blow with a gun.

And it baffles me that semi auto rifles are still legal. No one living in the US needs one.

Banning a semi-auto is not going to stop mentally ill people from causing harm in our society. Dealing with mental health seems like the better option. A lot more is going on besides a gun fetish.

 

[Mingg]

Does it matter? The argument was that allowing people to carry guns will make people safer and stop shootings like this from happening, or at least end them sooner. We know that some of these mass shootings are taking place in places where citizens are allowed to carry guns, and none of them have been stopped by citizens carrying guns, making the whole "well if we let everyone have guns wherever they want they would stop stuff like this" argument look rather weak.

Yes, it does matter. You can't say "no one with a gun tried to stop it" if no one even had a gun on them to begin with... I'm not saying everyone should have a gun or no one should have guns.

 

[Bogs]

Yes, it does matter. You can't say "no one with a gun tried to stop it" if no one even had a gun on them to begin with... I'm not saying everyone should have a gun or no one should have guns.

But the argument wasn't that people with guns would use them to stop shootings, the argument was that if there were more zones where guns would be carried, people would stop the shootings, and shootings like this wouldn't happen. The facts tell us that even in zones where guns can be carried where shootings have happened, shootings still happen, and nobody has ever used a gun to try and stop a shooter, suggesting that the argument is a weak one at best, and that more zones where guns can be carried isn't going to help this mass shooting problem.

Obviously we can't go around and survey everyone who was on site during one of these shootings and ask them if they have guns. What we can do is see if the zone the shooting took place in allowed guns to be carried, and then check to see if any citizen used a gun to try and stop the shooter. So far, during shootings that took place in a zone where guns can be carried, this has never happened, which, again, suggests that having more zones that aren't gun free isn't going to do much to help.

 

[onenerdykid]

Our country is safer than the news wants you to think. The last thing we need is more policing. This is a free country and we do not need the army patrolling everywhere. The more control the government gets, the worse the problems will get. And the common man would never be able to stand up against big government if there were government henchman (national guard) patrolling the streets. I hate to break it to you but the army patrolling in public would not stop a killer from murdering 10 people in a classroom.

Would you want to have average Joes carrying guns in public exercising their freedom rather than have trained professionals carrying guns in public?

If so, I hate to break it to to you but a bunch of gun carrying citizens exercising their freedom isn't going to stop a killer from murdering 10 people in a classroom either. What you might get is a bunch of average Joes all attempting to save the day by haphazardly shooting at the bad guy.

Furthermore, do you really believe US citizens can solve and fix a corrupt government ("stand up against big government") via the 2nd amendment?