An Open Letter to Jake and Donna Burton Carpenter

[NinetyFour]

Off of Yobeat, and yeah it's fucking snowboarding but this is real interesting.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://yobeat.com/2015/08/24/an-open-letter-to-jake-and-donna-burton-carpenter/

The following letter arrived at the Yobeat Home Offices today. It was sent anonymously, and from the postage mark appears to be mailed from Portland, Oregon and not Burlington, Vermont. Regardless, it has no shortage of valid points, so we've decided to publish it in full. Since half of Portland is ex-Burton staff, it's not a surprising origin, however we personally have no idea who wrote it. The transcribed version includes a few grammatical tweaks, but is basically the same as the below image.

Dear Jake and Donna,

There is a growing group of voices gaining volume and strength and it's time to listen. We're here to tell you what no one else will. There is a poison inside your company that has driven away countless amazing employees, derailed years of financial success and threatens the core structure and business you have spent an entire lifetime building. All you have to do is look at all the amazing people who have left your organization and what they have accomplished to see all the amazing talent you have lost.

You have two senior "leaders" working for you that have undermined you, your company, and the entire snowboarding industry for close to 15 years. The damage is deepening, and unless you take action soon, the situation will go from bad to dire.

They don't snowboard, flaunt their wealth in the face of your modestly compensated organization, lead by intimidation and fear, and pursue countless failed projects under the guide of "being core" and "building a lifestyle business," which benefits no one besides themselves.

Everything they do is to further their own personal agenda and undermine you. There is an old trope in the industry that these people must have some horrendous dirt on you or they would have been walked out the door a long time ago. We don't believe that, we just believe they have deceived you in plain sight. One of the greatest cons in the history of action sports is going on right inside 80 Industrial Ave. It seems to be obvious to every person in the company and the industry as a whole. We hope you will finally see this for yourselves and make the right decision for your amazing company and the dedicated people that work for you.

Some obvious examples:

Open Drug use: One of these people allegedly drinks and does drugs in the office, and openly promotes drug use on social media.

Financial Mismanagement: Multiple reports of a party they threw at the US Open, where damage at a rented condo of over $150,000, was billed back to Burton.

'In' or 'Out' Leadership: People who party with them are 'in' and those who don't are 'out.' The 'out' people are routinely demoted, marginalized or fired at will. Those that actually have a real legal complaint against them have been swept under the rug with NDA's and payouts.

Coachella. One of the dozens of pointless marketing initiatives that have moved Burton further and further away from its core business. These moves have cost Burton millions of dollars, yet have only fueled this duo's vanity and ego. Have any of these programs been successful or moved the needle for your brand?

Failed Collaborations: How many "cool guy" product collabs have failed over the years and who lead them?

Internal facts: An "anonymous" HR survey from two years ago was conducted where employees were afraid to answer honestly for fear of retribution from these two people. When asked offline, the number one problem inside Burton given: "These two people are the single biggest reason Burton is failing."

Entourage Syndrome: Their lifestyle has enabled your own vices under the guise of staying core. When you surround yourself by these people you are distanced from the reality on the ground. They only give you information you want to hear by distracting you with "coolness."

What is at risk?

Industry leadership: Jake and Donna, you created an entire movement and an industry. Not many people in the world can make that claim. Burton shrinking and/or imploding threatens the entire snowboarding industry.

Employee Livelihood: As one of the largest employers and economic drivers in Vermont and Burlington, Burton is massively important. The ripple effct of losing your jobs in Vermont would be felt by many businesses and other industries.

Your personal health: It is obvious that there has been a physical and psychological toll on both of you, and your family.

All of these things make it harder to recruit and retain top talent and will continue to undermine success and profits. Profitability and growth is not only nice, it's mandatory to keep any company going in the right direction.

Your challenge is to make the change the no one inside your company has had the guts to do. Not previous presidents, not the current CEO, not anyone, because these two people are "untouchable" inside Burton. Only you, Jake and Donna, can make this change, and the time is now. They are ruining your brand, threatening your loyal employees and putting your health at risk.

Get rid of these people immediately. They don't care about snowboarding, or you. It's obvious and has been for years. You will see an immediate improvement in morale and productivity the second they are walked out the door.

Sincerely,

Snowboarding

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways it's some pretty heavy stuff it seems. Bishop would be big on treading carefully with this though as internet witch hunts and mob justice can lead to some fucked up shit. I will say though if this letter and what seems to be several people's opinions hold true then I feel like it might be rightfully so for Jake to take some action.

 

[.Rybak.]

Well with a poster boy like this

I'm not one bit surprised that 2 executives are complete assholes.

 

[snowfinder]

My guess Burton will someday go belly up and snowboarding will once again become the sport it was in the late 80s early 90s. Back to the roots of fun and creativity.

 

[Big_Mtn]

Some really good points in this. From the sounds of it, I'm sure those even remotely in the Burton loop know which two people are being referenced. I think it's great that yobeat posted this publicly as it puts more pressure on Burton to get their shit together.

 

[NinetyFour]

I think it's great that yobeat posted this publicly as it puts more pressure on Burton to get their shit together.

From the Yobeat comments, it's Greg Daschyn and his wife Anne-Marie Daschyn who are Chief Creative Officer and Marketing Director respectively. I don't want to put them on full roast for this though because when you read this:

SPOILER ALERT! Jake and Donna know, they simply don’t give a shit! Do you honestly think that they are blind to what 2 people, that they party with more than you poop, are doing? If they are, then they have to be as dumb as anyone who thought True Detective 2 was good. The D’s get paid to take the heat while Jake and Donna continue to play the Saints of Snowboarding, and they get paid well. Jake and Donna are dirty cops and they issue the orders. I love that no one wants to admit that. The problem will not get fixed because the 2 people that can fix the problem, are the fucking problem!!! Anyone who is smart leaves, or speaks up, and then gets asked to leave. Silence is golden and they pay a premium for it on the way out, but when all you are making is enemies, eventually the truth comes out. There are more people that used to work there, than do now, and they have no reason to lie. It’s genius to pin it all on 2 people that are really easy to hate but shit, no one else tells Jake how to run his company! The whole top layer needs to be vaporized because the only way you get there, is by playing a dirty, corrupt game. None of them are qualified to lead a marching band and that is why everyone leaves. Smart people can’t willingly follow morons. It’s fucking dumb, THE END!

Yeah they might be pieces of shit but if Jake and Donna gave them too much leash to the point where they can't reel them back in, then yeah they have to take accountability to.

 

[murphyboiiii]

this is why i'll stick to skiing lol

 

[.otto.]

Sound super heavy, do you think anything will happen to the two higher up peoples?

 

[NinetyFour]

Sound super heavy, do you think anything will happen to the two higher up peoples?

Again I kind of think it's all circumstance but If the picture painted is one everybody is seeing then yeah I think they should be blasted out of there. If not that at the least some re-considerations should be made.

One of the things that a lot of the snowboard community is bringing up is Burton's Knowbuddy program which I suggest reading/watching about. It looked pretty sick, but ultimately at the beginning of the month it got the axe. Paper wise from what I read it seemed to make loads of sense; it's been speculated that the program's demise was due to these people.

 

[nellyyy]

a full reading of the Yobeat comments was a pretty interesting read.

Also this interview with the Greg Dycschyn just to make you feel uncomfortable:

http://bitchslapmag.com/2014/riding/burton-cco-greg-dacyshyn-interview/

 

[NinetyFour]

a full reading of the Yobeat comments was a pretty interesting read.

They have loads of good points, some solid laughs in there to.

I had read that interview through the comments and I didn't really think it was all that bad, being honest I thought a lot of what he had to say paralleled with my own life. I think a lot of the seemingly weirdness might just stem from how eccentric of a dude he is especially if you just watch the video.

 

[soup]

holy fuck thats the guy!! man I would fucking party with that guy for sure! I was picturing a suit wearing douchebag not a total vermont granola!

 

[.otto.]

holy fuck thats the guy!! man I would fucking party with that guy for sure! I was picturing a suit wearing douchebag not a total vermont granola!

I Admit, he is not what i expected him to look like, but in a situation like this looks dont matter, what does matter is that he squander and drove out alot of good things in burton..

 

[Zimmy]

That's gnarly.

 

[Zimmy]

...

**This post was edited on Dec 28th 2019 at 6:51:25am

 

[GayWolf420]

this is why i'll stick to skiing lol

how do we know that this isn't going on in skiing already? there has got to be at least one well-known company that pulls the exact same shit, let's not kid ourselves here.

 

[NinetyFour]

how do we know that this isn't going on in skiing already? there has got to be at least one well-known company that pulls the exact same shit, let's not kid ourselves here.

Yeah I kind of thought the same thing. It's probably just inevitable in most businesses, some might be able to get a handle on it though, or it just gets to the above (if it really is that way). Admittedly though skiing and snowboarding are kind of party sports so it's maybe more likely to happen.

 

[murphyboiiii]

how do we know that this isn't going on in skiing already? there has got to be at least one well-known company that pulls the exact same shit, let's not kid ourselves here.

it is happening in skiing

 

[nellyyy]

They have loads of good points, some solid laughs in there to.

I had read that interview through the comments and I didn't really think it was all that bad, being honest I thought a lot of what he had to say paralleled with my own life. I think a lot of the seemingly weirdness might just stem from how eccentric of a dude he is especially if you just watch the video.

I meant more that it made me feel uncomfortable within the context of the YoBeat comments and how I want to believe he's a cool, eccentric, fairly real guy, but my perspective is tainted by the comments and made me question where his personality ends and his (bullshit) marketing/manipulating personality begins. Never trust a coke head and definitely don't trust someone who works in marketing.

 

[bob_dole]

Burton responded:

The anonymous letter published earlier this week at Yobeat got at least one thing right: there are two names more responsible than anyone for Burton’s decisions and results: Jake and Donna Carpenter.

We’ve never paid much attention to people throwing rocks from the sidelines. But this letter demands a response. It’s mean-spirited, it’s cowardly, and it’s wrong. The writer wants to scapegoat others for the decisions we are making as Burton’s owners. That’s not something we’re going to let stand.

So, let us be clear. It’s our name that goes on the boards and the bank loans. We sign off on the budgets and we pay out the bonuses. And when Burton sponsors an event, builds a new collaboration, or launches an employee survey, we—Jake and Donna—are deeply involved in the decisions and fully accountable to the results. We are not absentee owners.

Burton is no longer just a small, core snowboarding company and some people don’t like that. Fine. But don’t question our commitment to the sport we love. No one does more for snowboarding than Burton. No one sponsors more riders, hosts more events and competitions, or invests more in product innovation. No one welcomes more riders into the sport. No one else was there when we were fighting to get snowboarders access to the mountain in the first place.

So we think we’ve earned the right to expand Burton’s reach. We’ve built a relationship with our customers that goes beyond the mountain. We’ve designed product with quality that stands up to anything you can buy from much larger competitors, and style that could only be Burton.

We’ve done that under the leadership of an extraordinary senior team. That team has never been stronger or more aligned. Each and every one of these individuals are skilled, creative and committed to Burton’s success.

This has been a tough year for us with Jake’s illness, and honestly the last thing we needed right now was this cowardly, bullshit letter. But our leadership team—and all of you—have been incredible. We have felt your love and support, and we’ve been blown away by your work. This community means it when we say “We ride together.”

The internet can be a toxic place full of rumors and anonymous trolls. Don’t confuse their rants with facts. And don’t lose sight of this: It’s a good time to be at Burton. We are so excited about the future, about our direction, and about this great team. The rest is noise.

Jake and Donna

 

[NinetyFour]

I had seen that. Yobeat link because the comments are gold again in opinion and hilarity:
http://yobeat.com/2015/08/26/jake-and-donna-respond/

 

[Zimmy]

That letter's going to look really dumb when Yobeat receive a ton letters from ex-employees. Blackmail is a crime, not necessarily saying it's happening here, but hell, you'd have to wonder.

 

[grifrowl]

I can't help but think that perhaps those involved in Burton as a company are mostly coming from smaller, less corporate companies or shop environments and so are not used to day-to-day operations in a corporate environment. A lot of these issues raised in the article could apply to most companies with a management structure complex enough to require personnel management (albeit without the open drug use and partying). Middle management can essentially absolve high level employees of all accountability for poor decisions and also enable selective firing through questionable means. Often times the rank and file guys can hang on though the management structure, while the guys who make a name for themselves or ask the wrong questions get cut. Additionally, people with titles like "director" can be dangerous if they don't have sufficient oversight. Peter principle is in full effect.

Anyway Burton seems to have timed their personnel/product slumps perfectly with the declining popularity of snowboarding which sucks for them, but may open the door for some smaller companies to up their game.

 

[eheath]

That first photo is photoshopped (or the one i saw was photoshopped), ive seen the same thing posted by snowboarder? i think with their address in the "to" section.

... just saying. whatever this letter/issue is there is something going on behind the scenes...

 

[NinetyFour]

That first photo is photoshopped (or the one i saw was photoshopped), ive seen the same thing posted by snowboarder? i think with their address in the "to" section.

... just saying. whatever this letter/issue is there is something going on behind the scenes...

Honestly I'm so out of touch with snowboarding that I can't really put down any solid commentary on this whole thing, it's just as I see it. I hinted that I think this might be a troll to Nutz the other night but several people who are 'with' snowboarding have firmly assured it to me that Burton is actually blowing it, so have all the comments. If it is a troll then I've definitely taken the bait and people are maaaad dedicated to making it seem real. The photoshopping, it may have been sent to someone at Yobeat and they just didn't want their name all over it? But really, I don't know, ha.

As far as the reply goes, yeah it might seem kind of weak but you definitely have to look at it from the Burton's perspective, right? And just because they came out with a weak reply doesn't mean that they're not going to tell the Daschyns that cocaine is in fact not real snow, and that they could ease up a little bit on things and level out some. Doing this might just be the better option for them instead of caving to the internet's demands and firing them. Again this is all pending that they are as wild as they're being made out.

 

[acc]

Well with a poster boy like this

I'm not one bit surprised that 2 executives are complete assholes.

Perfect first response

 

[Caveman.]

Some obvious examples:

Open Drug use: One of these people allegedly drinks and does drugs in the office, and openly promotes drug use on social media.

How dare they....

Interesting to see how both sides of this is playing out.

 

[a_burger]

That's gnarly.

Here's an idea for Greg...

btw, take that fucking beanie off you f!!!!!!! try-hard.

That letter's going to look really dumb when Yobeat receive a ton letters from ex-employees. Blackmail is a crime, not necessarily saying it's happening here, but hell, you'd have to wonder.

I really don't know if I should post this.. but it didn't take long and I like it...

what are you doing

 

[Zimmy]

what are you doing

NO. What I am doing is obvious. BUT wtf is Burton doing?

 

[Mr.Bishop]

Burton responded:

The anonymous letter published earlier this week at Yobeat got at least one thing right: there are two names more responsible than anyone for Burton’s decisions and results: Jake and Donna Carpenter.

We’ve never paid much attention to people throwing rocks from the sidelines. But this letter demands a response. It’s mean-spirited, it’s cowardly, and it’s wrong. The writer wants to scapegoat others for the decisions we are making as Burton’s owners. That’s not something we’re going to let stand.

So, let us be clear. It’s our name that goes on the boards and the bank loans. We sign off on the budgets and we pay out the bonuses. And when Burton sponsors an event, builds a new collaboration, or launches an employee survey, we—Jake and Donna—are deeply involved in the decisions and fully accountable to the results. We are not absentee owners.

Burton is no longer just a small, core snowboarding company and some people don’t like that. Fine. But don’t question our commitment to the sport we love. No one does more for snowboarding than Burton. No one sponsors more riders, hosts more events and competitions, or invests more in product innovation. No one welcomes more riders into the sport. No one else was there when we were fighting to get snowboarders access to the mountain in the first place.

So we think we’ve earned the right to expand Burton’s reach. We’ve built a relationship with our customers that goes beyond the mountain. We’ve designed product with quality that stands up to anything you can buy from much larger competitors, and style that could only be Burton.

We’ve done that under the leadership of an extraordinary senior team. That team has never been stronger or more aligned. Each and every one of these individuals are skilled, creative and committed to Burton’s success.

This has been a tough year for us with Jake’s illness, and honestly the last thing we needed right now was this cowardly, bullshit letter. But our leadership team—and all of you—have been incredible. We have felt your love and support, and we’ve been blown away by your work. This community means it when we say “We ride together.”

The internet can be a toxic place full of rumors and anonymous trolls. Don’t confuse their rants with facts. And don’t lose sight of this: It’s a good time to be at Burton. We are so excited about the future, about our direction, and about this great team. The rest is noise.

Jake and Donna

Interesting to see the response. Honestly, from what I've learned of the corporate world is that its incredibly ignorant to think that the owners/senior staff have no idea what is going on. They almost always are 100% in the know and have plans that exist way past what you can understand at a low level or outside. These plans may or may not work - but the plan is the plan.

The best, smartest and most hard working employee on the planet is not only a useless but toxic asset if they can't get on board with 'the plan'. A shitty worker that is at least on board to execute things alongside the company's direction is a far more valuable asset.

Its very important for owners/leaders to listen to the people under them, and incorporate that into their vision. Its a huge mistake to not listen to your people at the fringes/frontlines of your organization... but if you don't want to then they're useless in the company. They should be fired or quit.

Something like this, the owners are able to take it in any direction they want. You don't like it? Fuck off. If the company burns to the ground, they'll realize their mistakes in the end - but I do have to admit that though an open letter like this is gutsy, YoBeat made themselves look silly because instead of just trying to make fun of Burton for being stupid they called out two people as the problem.

The biggest thing I'd say in this situation is not to crucify anyone at the company based off of rumors. However, if you don't like the direction burton is going in, voice your opinion with your purchases and buy other brands you like. No matter where in the food chain these decisions are getting made, if profits collapse changes get made really fucking fast.

Some obvious examples:

Open Drug use: One of these people allegedly drinks and does drugs in the office, and openly promotes drug use on social media.

How dare they....

Interesting to see how both sides of this is playing out.

I almost lost it when I read this. Wasn't it YoBeat that did "SIA on Acid?" - seems they've since pulled the videos down as this is massively hypocritical.

Was that letter from someone at YoBeat or just forwarded from one of their readers?

 

[corona]

Burton responded:

The anonymous letter published earlier this week at Yobeat got at least one thing right: there are two names more responsible than anyone for Burton’s decisions and results: Jake and Donna Carpenter.

We’ve never paid much attention to people throwing rocks from the sidelines. But this letter demands a response. It’s mean-spirited, it’s cowardly, and it’s wrong. The writer wants to scapegoat others for the decisions we are making as Burton’s owners. That’s not something we’re going to let stand.

So, let us be clear. It’s our name that goes on the boards and the bank loans. We sign off on the budgets and we pay out the bonuses. And when Burton sponsors an event, builds a new collaboration, or launches an employee survey, we—Jake and Donna—are deeply involved in the decisions and fully accountable to the results. We are not absentee owners.

Burton is no longer just a small, core snowboarding company and some people don’t like that. Fine. But don’t question our commitment to the sport we love. No one does more for snowboarding than Burton. No one sponsors more riders, hosts more events and competitions, or invests more in product innovation. No one welcomes more riders into the sport. No one else was there when we were fighting to get snowboarders access to the mountain in the first place.

So we think we’ve earned the right to expand Burton’s reach. We’ve built a relationship with our customers that goes beyond the mountain. We’ve designed product with quality that stands up to anything you can buy from much larger competitors, and style that could only be Burton.

We’ve done that under the leadership of an extraordinary senior team. That team has never been stronger or more aligned. Each and every one of these individuals are skilled, creative and committed to Burton’s success.

This has been a tough year for us with Jake’s illness, and honestly the last thing we needed right now was this cowardly, bullshit letter. But our leadership team—and all of you—have been incredible. We have felt your love and support, and we’ve been blown away by your work. This community means it when we say “We ride together.”

The internet can be a toxic place full of rumors and anonymous trolls. Don’t confuse their rants with facts. And don’t lose sight of this: It’s a good time to be at Burton. We are so excited about the future, about our direction, and about this great team. The rest is noise.

Jake and Donna

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent."

- Yobeat comment

spot on

 

[Rusticles]

How dare they try and turn a profit off of snowboarding

 

[Huck_Norris]

holy fuck thats the guy!! man I would fucking party with that guy for sure! I was picturing a suit wearing douchebag not a total vermont granola!

Total VT granola??? Dude I don't know where you hang out in VT but if there's one thing this motherfucker is not, it's VT granola. Designer scarves, gold chains and Elliot Gould's glasses... Yep, nothing but granola here- just stare at the beard and think flannel thoughts!

lol

 

[Huck_Norris]

BTW, I could give a shit who runs anything at Burton. They have every right to employ douchebags as anybody else and Burton is par for the course for most boarder twats anyways. it only makes sense that the heads would be toolbags given their demographic. I bet the Daschyns have gigantic Grenade and Monster stickers on their cars too, who cares?

The ONLY reason he should be fired is for posting pictures of the dirtiest ditch weed I've ever seen in my life on his Instagram account. I wouldn't even give that garbage away.

 

[Literature]

BTW, I could give a shit who runs anything at Burton. They have every right to employ douchebags as anybody else and Burton is par for the course for most boarder twats anyways. it only makes sense that the heads would be toolbags given their demographic. I bet the Daschyns have gigantic Grenade and Monster stickers on their cars too, who cares?

The ONLY reason he should be fired is for posting pictures of the dirtiest ditch weed I've ever seen in my life on his Instagram account. I wouldn't even give that garbage away.

Now THIS is some useful analysis.

I'm still trying to tell if this guy has modeled for Expedia at some point in his career.

 

[mmallender.]

Burton responded:

The anonymous letter published earlier this week at Yobeat got at least one thing right: there are two names more responsible than anyone for Burton’s decisions and results: Jake and Donna Carpenter.

We’ve never paid much attention to people throwing rocks from the sidelines. But this letter demands a response. It’s mean-spirited, it’s cowardly, and it’s wrong. The writer wants to scapegoat others for the decisions we are making as Burton’s owners. That’s not something we’re going to let stand.

So, let us be clear. It’s our name that goes on the boards and the bank loans. We sign off on the budgets and we pay out the bonuses. And when Burton sponsors an event, builds a new collaboration, or launches an employee survey, we—Jake and Donna—are deeply involved in the decisions and fully accountable to the results. We are not absentee owners.

Burton is no longer just a small, core snowboarding company and some people don’t like that. Fine. But don’t question our commitment to the sport we love. No one does more for snowboarding than Burton. No one sponsors more riders, hosts more events and competitions, or invests more in product innovation. No one welcomes more riders into the sport. No one else was there when we were fighting to get snowboarders access to the mountain in the first place.

So we think we’ve earned the right to expand Burton’s reach. We’ve built a relationship with our customers that goes beyond the mountain. We’ve designed product with quality that stands up to anything you can buy from much larger competitors, and style that could only be Burton.

We’ve done that under the leadership of an extraordinary senior team. That team has never been stronger or more aligned. Each and every one of these individuals are skilled, creative and committed to Burton’s success.

This has been a tough year for us with Jake’s illness, and honestly the last thing we needed right now was this cowardly, bullshit letter. But our leadership team—and all of you—have been incredible. We have felt your love and support, and we’ve been blown away by your work. This community means it when we say “We ride together.”

The internet can be a toxic place full of rumors and anonymous trolls. Don’t confuse their rants with facts. And don’t lose sight of this: It’s a good time to be at Burton. We are so excited about the future, about our direction, and about this great team. The rest is noise.

Jake and Donna

Interesting to see the response. Honestly, from what I've learned of the corporate world is that its incredibly ignorant to think that the owners/senior staff have no idea what is going on. They almost always are 100% in the know and have plans that exist way past what you can understand at a low level or outside. These plans may or may not work - but the plan is the plan.

The best, smartest and most hard working employee on the planet is not only a useless but toxic asset if they can't get on board with 'the plan'. A shitty worker that is at least on board to execute things alongside the company's direction is a far more valuable asset.

Its very important for owners/leaders to listen to the people under them, and incorporate that into their vision. Its a huge mistake to not listen to your people at the fringes/frontlines of your organization... but if you don't want to then they're useless in the company. They should be fired or quit.

Something like this, the owners are able to take it in any direction they want. You don't like it? Fuck off. If the company burns to the ground, they'll realize their mistakes in the end - but I do have to admit that though an open letter like this is gutsy, YoBeat made themselves look silly because instead of just trying to make fun of Burton for being stupid they called out two people as the problem.

The biggest thing I'd say in this situation is not to crucify anyone at the company based off of rumors. However, if you don't like the direction burton is going in, voice your opinion with your purchases and buy other brands you like. No matter where in the food chain these decisions are getting made, if profits collapse changes get made really fucking fast.

I almost lost it when I read this. Wasn't it YoBeat that did "SIA on Acid?" - seems they've since pulled the videos down as this is massively hypocritical.

Was that letter from someone at YoBeat or just forwarded from one of their readers?

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent."

- Yobeat comment

spot on

BTW, I could give a shit who runs anything at Burton. They have every right to employ douchebags as anybody else and Burton is par for the course for most boarder twats anyways. it only makes sense that the heads would be toolbags given their demographic. I bet the Daschyns have gigantic Grenade and Monster stickers on their cars too, who cares?

The ONLY reason he should be fired is for posting pictures of the dirtiest ditch weed I've ever seen in my life on his Instagram account. I wouldn't even give that garbage away.

Im right there with the straw man argument comment. How better to say "yeah youre spot on" than to fail to address or rebut any of the original letter that warranted a "response" necessary. not to mention, in the yobeat comments someone mentions that burton isnt actually on top of sponsoring athletes, just a little counterpoint against their response.. not an official tally, and may not be accurate, but here goes

"Leaving here this here so it’s at the top as well:

Burton does not sponsor the most riders. Here’s the actual tally of pro +am teams… Red Bull: 45

Rome: 33

Burton: 26

Monster: 25

Gnu: 23

Lib: 23

Ride: 20

Salomon: 20

NEFF: 16

Capita: 13

K2: 10

Technine: 6

Target: 1

Never Summer: no one cares "

@Doug I dont think the issue is with the fact of how the corporate world works, but to what degree theyre taking the "if you disagree, youre out" mentality, it seems to be more of an "if you arent with us, youre against us" approach. that letter spoke of people being "let go" because they went to HR to make a complaint against the two called out in the initial letter. NOBODY should fear losing their job because they have legitimate legal human resources complaint against a higher-up, or anyone. You should never be compelled to work or forced into roll-over-dead obedience towards a higher up due to FEAR, that is bullshit. Maybe in a fortune 500 company or some bullshit like that, but we are talking about BURTON a fucking snowboard company, and one that claims to "care" about the industry at that.

@Huck Employing twats isnt the issue in my mind, its what these twats are doing, and how much of an effect it has on the industry, while burton maintains that they are the greatest thing to happen to snowboarding, that they are the sole reason that snowboarding is what it is today, and that they care more than anyone else about the snowboarding population..

"Burton is no longer just a small, core snowboarding company and some people don’t like that. Fine. But don’t question our commitment to the sport we love. No one does more for snowboarding than Burton. No one sponsors more riders, hosts more events and competitions, or invests more in product innovation. No one welcomes more riders into the sport. No one else was there when we were fighting to get snowboarders access to the mountain in the first place."

to me that reads as "look at all the "great" shit we claim to have done all on our own, and all the things we have done in the past, therefore, fuck y'all we do what we want, deal with it"

burton claims to have done all these amazing things, yet they have programs like un..inc, and knowbuddy that are huge for the industry, and the riders, and then go and cut them. they buy up companies like forum, analog, etc and then make them disappear. theyre trying to play both sides of the coin "hey, look how much we care and how "core" we are" and at the blink of an eye "FUCK YOU GUYS HAHA KEEP GIVING US MONEY". what the two daschyns lifestyles and how they portray themselves shows is really how disconnected burton is with their audience and market, and the slap in the face they are giving the people who helped them become what they are.

id wager that burton most definitely does not care about the people buying from little shops and supporting the industry, they are more interested in generating sales and revenue from people buying from **insert franchise chain sporting goods store** and their rental product sales.

the best course of action, like doug said, is to hit them where it hurts, and stop buying, and talking about them altogether

 

[mmallender.]

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/is-burton-snowboards-in-trouble

more stories/interviews/info coming out

 

[Huck_Norris]

Im right there with the straw man argument comment. How better to say "yeah youre spot on" than to fail to address or rebut any of the original letter that warranted a "response" necessary. not to mention, in the yobeat comments someone mentions that burton isnt actually on top of sponsoring athletes, just a little counterpoint against their response.. not an official tally, and may not be accurate, but here goes

"Leaving here this here so it’s at the top as well:

Burton does not sponsor the most riders. Here’s the actual tally of pro +am teams… Red Bull: 45

Rome: 33

Burton: 26

Monster: 25

Gnu: 23

Lib: 23

Ride: 20

Salomon: 20

NEFF: 16

Capita: 13

K2: 10

Technine: 6

Target: 1

Never Summer: no one cares "

@Doug I dont think the issue is with the fact of how the corporate world works, but to what degree theyre taking the "if you disagree, youre out" mentality, it seems to be more of an "if you arent with us, youre against us" approach. that letter spoke of people being "let go" because they went to HR to make a complaint against the two called out in the initial letter. NOBODY should fear losing their job because they have legitimate legal human resources complaint against a higher-up, or anyone. You should never be compelled to work or forced into roll-over-dead obedience towards a higher up due to FEAR, that is bullshit. Maybe in a fortune 500 company or some bullshit like that, but we are talking about BURTON a fucking snowboard company, and one that claims to "care" about the industry at that.

@Huck Employing twats isnt the issue in my mind, its what these twats are doing, and how much of an effect it has on the industry, while burton maintains that they are the greatest thing to happen to snowboarding, that they are the sole reason that snowboarding is what it is today, and that they care more than anyone else about the snowboarding population..

"Burton is no longer just a small, core snowboarding company and some people don’t like that. Fine. But don’t question our commitment to the sport we love. No one does more for snowboarding than Burton. No one sponsors more riders, hosts more events and competitions, or invests more in product innovation. No one welcomes more riders into the sport. No one else was there when we were fighting to get snowboarders access to the mountain in the first place."

to me that reads as "look at all the "great" shit we claim to have done all on our own, and all the things we have done in the past, therefore, fuck y'all we do what we want, deal with it"

burton claims to have done all these amazing things, yet they have programs like un..inc, and knowbuddy that are huge for the industry, and the riders, and then go and cut them. they buy up companies like forum, analog, etc and then make them disappear. theyre trying to play both sides of the coin "hey, look how much we care and how "core" we are" and at the blink of an eye "FUCK YOU GUYS HAHA KEEP GIVING US MONEY". what the two daschyns lifestyles and how they portray themselves shows is really how disconnected burton is with their audience and market, and the slap in the face they are giving the people who helped them become what they are.

id wager that burton most definitely does not care about the people buying from little shops and supporting the industry, they are more interested in generating sales and revenue from people buying from **insert franchise chain sporting goods store** and their rental product sales.

the best course of action, like doug said, is to hit them where it hurts, and stop buying, and talking about them altogether

Dude you don't have to tell me who they are or what they're doing. My home mountain is the REAL home of snowboarding and gave Jake a foothold LONG before Stratton bought the rights to their history. You couldn't bring a gay tray to Stratton for YEARS until Magic paved that road, believe me.

They couldn't give a fuck about any struggle happening there though. They have no roots. They have no love for who helped them when they were nothing and they have no respect. Fuck Burton. They're the schwag of snowboarding. There can be no better example of industry sellouts but I also recognize they don't owe any of us shit. They can and will continue to do whatever the fuck they want. That's my point. They don't care but they don't have to either.

In the end I would expect nothing less from toolbag sellouts like them but tbh good for them for keeping their poser cabinet. I wish them nothing but the best even if they act like their tree starts at the trunk. It's none of any of our business.

 

[.Rybak.]

In the end I would expect nothing less from toolbag sellouts like them but tbh good for them for keeping their poser cabinet. I wish them nothing but the best even if they act like their tree starts at the trunk. It's none of any of our business.

This is awesome.

 

[mmallender.]

Dude you don't have to tell me who they are or what they're doing. My home mountain is the REAL home of snowboarding and gave Jake a foothold LONG before Stratton bought the rights to their history. You couldn't bring a gay tray to Stratton for YEARS until Magic paved that road, believe me.

They couldn't give a fuck about any struggle happening there though. They have no roots. They have no love for who helped them when they were nothing and they have no respect. Fuck Burton. They're the schwag of snowboarding. There can be no better example of industry sellouts but I also recognize they don't owe any of us shit. They can and will continue to do whatever the fuck they want. That's my point. They don't care but they don't have to either.

In the end I would expect nothing less from toolbag sellouts like them but tbh good for them for keeping their poser cabinet. I wish them nothing but the best even if they act like their tree starts at the trunk. It's none of any of our business.

Am I surprised or do I expect anything less from burton? no.

but I disagree with you, they should care and should have to care about the people that made them who they are and gave them their success, and they owe it to their own employees, the shops, their customers and their supporters. If they cant give that in return, I absolutely hope they go down in a tremendous, flaming, blaze

 

[theabortionator]

Surprised this made it up on nooschoolers.

Burton used to be super rad. Haven't bought burton products other than a helmet and some other stuff in a decade.Actually I bought burton mission bindings in 2006 so less than a decade, and I bought some demo cartels at jackson whole this winter because I was there for 3 days and my bindings broke 1st run/needed a way to snowboard.

It's weird. I've only been snowboarding since the mid to late 90s so I wasn't around in the real early days but there have been some massive changes over the years. The shift with burton is huge as they're about as OG as it gets in snowboard and became such a massive company/ changed so radically.