An intellectual ski discussion. help me out!

Powforbreakfast.

Powforbreakfast.

Active member
i'm not sure if that's how you spell intellectual, i'm too lazy to look it up. besides the point, how bout some advice?

i've read a ton of threads on pow skis from people who've never ridden pow skis... and people giving advice who don't even ride pow skis... so please, who what you're talking about before telling me something, i'm reasonably educated on this topic.

anywho, i live in eastern washington state, and i ski at a relatively small ski resort which happens to be where andy mahre grew up (and still skis at a ton to this day... i took a run with him the other day). that's besides the point, though. we don't get the MOST snow here at white pass, but this year around here and baker was some of the best skiing in the world for two years in a row now. last year i was skiing pow every other day i skied, literally... often over a foot each day. this year it was pow about 30 percent of the time. the snow never really gets ice-hard.... usually pretty soft, great for carving and such. the mountain has lots of steeps and some sick groomers... you usually get a lil' of everything every run you go down. there's tons of natural jibs, lips... everything. that being said, help me out here.

i've never owned a powder ski, but i've skied some. for several years now, i've skied on PE's and scratches for all conditions, which both have a waist of about 85. i like one-quiver skis that can do it all. i want to purchase a wider ski that caters to this all-mountain idea... wider for pow, because i hate trying to ski switch in two feet of snow with scratches (84 at waist... doable, but quite hard.) i really like the way both the PE's and the wrs fs scratchs ski, to give you an idea. i don't have the opportunity to demo many skis, so give me some ideas as to what might be a good choice for me. i'm about 5'8, 150 pounds, and both my skis right now are 174's. very advanced as far as skill.

what's your advice for a ski that can slay rails, stomp landings, carve grooms, ski pow (forwards and back) and is stable switch? that's a big one... being stable switch. i think the scratch wrs fs is one of the very best skis i've ever ridden.. i need something just like it that's a little wider. ideas! thanks.

right now my choices would be

scratch wrs BC

big troubles

seths

 
Big Troubles are definitely a very well rounded ski. They rip in the park and are really good in powder. A 90 waist is perfect for a ski that you want to use in both powder and on rails. Personally, I have a powder ski and a park ski, but I do occasionally ride my Elizabeths in the park. With a 110mm waist, they carve off of lips great, but spin really slow and it feels like you're attached to a boat anchor. On rails they are EXTREMELY stable, but slower due to the drastic increase in surface area. They can be fun on rails but they really aren't good if you're looking to do switchups or other rail tech. I have never ridden the two other skis you mentioned so I can't really comment, but Seths are a powder ski that are decent in the park, or so I hear.
 
sick, this is the kind of feedback i wanna hear. keep it coming.

anyone ridden surface live lifes? yea they're fat, but that doesn't neccessarily affect how they ski... watch lifes look sick too.
 
get the ak enemy if u still can because i have it and if i were to have a ski to do it all, it would probably be this one. the only reason it isnt my only ski, is because i dont want to wreck it on rails. but you should look into the seths if you cant get the ak enemys. but the seths would be a very solid choice to. hoped i helped you out brah.
 
I know it sounds like I am riding Armada's dick but I seriously think that for people like the majority of NS who want high performing skis that are also fun Armada is hard to beat. Having owned both Armada Jp Juliens, and ARV's I can say that either of these skis would be perfect for what you have described. They are both extremely versatile, and have very fun flexes. If you are leaning more towards park, get the ARV's. ARV's are probably the most versatile ski I have ever skied that still slays it in the park. The Jp Julien I would go with if you are leaning more towards Pow and Big Mountain type riding. I ride the 191 and although they are a fairly big ski, they do not feel like it whatsoever. Super duper light ski with a perfect flex (not to stiff not to hard but lots of pop). They have minimal sidecut and minimal camber and contribut3d with the softish flex they absolutely slay the pow pow. I ski these pretty much everytime I ski these days. I also have 190 Gotamas which are very similar to the JP Julien dimension wise (actually have more sidecut so you think they would be more versatile) and I vastly prefer the JP's. For a more playful type of riding but still high performance the weight and maneuverability of the JP Julien blow away the Gotama. I just love 'em. Only place the Jp's get scary is on really hard icey days where they can be a handful and don't like to edge grip as well as skinnier skis with more sidecut.

 
^ and to clarify I meant to say if you want a good all mountain ride with a greater emphasis on park get the ARV. If you want a good all mountain ride with more of a pow and steep gnar emphasis go with teh JP.
 
sounds legit, but i'm kinda skeptical... one of my buddies has 178 JP's and he says they suck unless there's at least 6 inches of pow. i've actually closely looked at getting some ARV's, but my bro has the 05/06's, and when i rode those they were sick except the fact they they were squirrley as a mother. one of my other friends has some pipe cleaners, and those carved super well, but were extremely squirrly switch. i've heard good and bad about armada... thanks for the input. still waiting to hear about surface skis...
 
i second the ARV. They can feel noodly at times, but they are still incredibly stable maybe cuz of the width and length (185s for me). the flex is super fun to play around with and the ski kills it everywhere.
 
You would love seths. They fucking rip the absolute shit out of everything. You will be able to slay park and pow in them, i HIGHLY recommend them. The only reason i don't ski them anymore is because i wanted my dream ski, jp vs jl. I don't recommend the jps for park tho, the lack of sidecut makes them harder to carve, but they are very light. The 98 waist of the seths will be perfect for you.
 
the cronic blends rip it up every were a great ski and that k2 owns line any durabilty issuses should be out the window
 
If you can get your hands on a pair of First bloods, you would be golden. However, a one quiver ski sacrifices on both ends, and the joy of powder with fat skis is something everyone should experience.
 
Can't comment on Surface.

The seth you'd love. it's very fun, pops, turns well, relatively soft.

The JJ might not be what you're looking for if you want a true all around ski. I fucking love mine, but you have to be patient with them when you want to carve them, and they're a little slower edge to edge. But awesome. If you ski more pow than park, get them.

ARVs...oh man....the ARV is ridiculous all around. It's misleading, in that the tip is SO soft, but it's rock solid underfoot with a poppy tail. I loved it all around but wanted something SUPER fat, so I got JPs. The ARV is dead light too, which is great, but it doesn't blast through crud like a heavier ski would. If I had the chance, I'd get a pair as a park ski. the tail packs a shit ton of pop.

Scratch BC..meh...it's a rossi. it skis dead to me. It's probably good, I just hate rossi skis because my scratches sucked so much dick and I couldn't find a balanced skiing position on them. Never figured out why.

Lines have been fun in the past, haven't skied anything other than the lizzie lately. Unsure about that ski, but if I were shorter/lighter, I'd consider it for sure.

Dynastar is an unknown to me. can't say much. How about a Mojo 90? Great ski, a fucking tank, durable, fun, skis well.

 
i ski pretty much exactly what you described. lots of natrual hits and lots of pow, so what i got this season was 178 scratch bc wrs. suuupperrr sick ski that i highly recomend, i mounted then 2cm back from true center and there sick as fuck
 
Hey dude, I ski Stevens Pass, a few miles north. I bought some used Madens over the summer, and was planning on just using them on big pow days, but now that the seasons over, I've literally only rode my other pair for a day. Madens fuckin destroy in any conditions. Today I was skiing crumbly Cascade Concrete with them, then took them for a few laps in the slushy and icy park. They perform unlike any ski I've ever rode, and I love em.

So my review of the ski, now that the background is established. Madens (and AK's, same ski, diff topsheet) are heavy, yet sorta soft for being such a big ski. What I love about them most is just their ability to blast through anything you ski in. Cookies have to be larger than my head for me to really worry about them when I'm skiing steeps. I've only had one scary day on them - opening day at Crystal Mt, where the ice was above intense. But on normal groomers (and because its Washington, slushy and soft snow) they perform great. Sure, you lose some of the ability to do zipper lines of bumps, but with these, you pretty much just blast through them. As for park, I was using them today in there, and they rule. The swing weight can kinda get to you, but I'm not doing 7's or anything, so they work great for me. Large surface area means you can stop landings in anything - I was landing switch in choppy, bombholed slush today, and you dont even notice really. The soft flex on these things is great as well for landing and reverting in pow. Landing switch in foot deep fresh is an absolute pleasure with these skis.

The one thing I would caution against is getting a heavily used pair. Topsheet chipping on mine is starting to be a real issue, and I got mine with a fair bit of damage already. If you do go for AK's or Madens, make sure the topsheet damage is minimal if you want these things to last.
 
I just finished making a similar purchase decision for a new one quiver ski. I too had been on PE's for two years (the 05/06 model) and loved them -- they ripeverything. But I wanted something fatter but not over 100mm as it had to be able to perform all mountain (including ice) as I split my ski time between east and west.

Skis I checked out included the Scott P4 (I'd check it, but perhaps a little wide for ya' -- otherwise this is a truly bomber ski), the Volkl Gotama (excellent -- but again perhaps a tad too wide), the K2 Seth (the old Pistols would be perfect at 95mm -- the new ones are again pumped a tad too wide), the Armada ARV (this would be a good recommendation for ya'), the Armada JPvJ (too wide for what we both need), the Line Prophet 100 (not enough of a centre mount ski) and the Rossi Scratch BC WRS (98mm underfoot).

I ended up going for the Rossis -- mainly because of price (a lot of ridiculous deals on them right now) and the advice of a few trusted shop reps and friends in Whistler. Whoever said above the Rossi sucks hasn't skiied on them. I hated Rossi's image too (mid-90s prejudice!) but the Scratch BC WRS are quite popular in the PacNW and I saw them all over Whistler. They are lighter and poppier than the big mountain BSquad skis (which you see everywhere now in the backcountry as a solid and dependable serious chute and glacier ski). Thus I reconsidered Rossi and went for it -- demo'ed a pair, thought they could cut the crud, admired how they are very light (lighter than the PEs), spin well, balance well, and float beautifully. Overall they are FUN which is what I wanted for something I could haul out on smaller mountains like yours. For Whistler I've got bigger quivers to handle the terrain -- so I wanted something less taxing really that I could ski on day after day without fatique. The Rossis fit this bill. They ARE hybrid wood core unlike some Rossis so they perform more like a K2 than other Rossi carving skis which are foamcore hybrids, like Salomons (I've never tried the Foil, though you might want to check those out too -- the Foil is very popular all over Jackson Hole, and you gotta respect that).

Whatever you get I'd say get a ski between 95-100mm and you'll be fine. 90mm won't feel much different than the PE and over 100mm will sacrifice versatility.

 
i agree with this choice, you said that you liked the scratch fs right so why not keep the same general deal and step it up to the bc, but as for the arvs, at one of my local shops, they let people demo them, and like 4 pairs are out because when you over flex them, they dont hold camber and become dead, and as for the jj's i couldnt ski them at all on the groomers because they were too slow for some reason, they were waxed and everything, you would need about 6 inches of pow for them to ski properly
 
Yea i reread his post and you are totally right. If you loved the fs wrs, why not at least demo the BC wrs. From what I understand the BC is pretty much supposed to ski like a bigger fs. I have owned 3 different pairs of fs and I love them, I would definitely try the bc if I got the chance. And about Jp's being slow and requiring powder to ski properly, I definitely felt this way when I first got them. They were super slow and were kicking my ass on icier days. I waxed the shit out of them over and over and forced myself to just deal with it on crappy days and now they are super fast and I pretty much kill everybody on groomers and cattracks. It might be because I am just used to them, or maybe because the factory tune was shit and they needed to be broken in.

But it seems like your best options are probably the seth or the BC. They are quite different skis though. Sidecut probably being the biggest difference.
 
I say go for Seths for all round. Got to be the most versatile ski out there.

I skied Big Troubles 100+ days on Whistler last year. They rip all round but might be a bit stiff in the park unless you've got some muscle. I delammed one 6 inches on the tip the first day I hit big kickers on them though, and Dynastar wouldn't warranty them, even though my shop sold Dynastar. Awesome skis for ripping everything else though.
 
i skied the seth as my all mtn ski this season. since i live in PA, most of that skiing was done on icy or slushy groomers, and they actually worked really well for both. i had them in some fresh snow up in VT in january and they were tons of fun, and finally got to put them to the test in utah in march, and i will agree with whoever said they are the most versatile ski out there. i've skied the BTs and they're fun at high speeds, but arent quite as agile as the seths are, and dont turn quite as easily at slower speeds, even though the turning radius is similar. i used my seths on jumps a bit, and they werent terrible, but i had them mounted +4, so if you are interested in riding park semi-frequently with them, go +5 to +7 on them so they are more balanced. having them mounted at +4 still gave me plenty of tail to ski switch in pow though.
 
If you can, get next years Scratch BC (called the Brigade). They stiffened it up so it rocks out of the powder. This years didn't ski very well on groomed stuff when I demoed it. Next years really rocks though.

--rick
 
thanks for all the input. i rode 08 seths today... they were a guy on the ski patrol's skis, i'm pretty sure andy mahre gave them to him.. anyways, it does have a small amount of reverse camber... not much, but they're pretty sick. i found them to be extremely heavy, maybe cause there were huge marker bindings on 'em... but they were sick skis. it was relatively icy all day, and even though they didn't turn too tightly, they were stable and smooth. it seemed like they carved better switch than they did forwards. when you start to initiate a turn, the ski wants to resist and go straight... probably the best ski to get if you want to go in a straight line top to bottom. my impression though was that i needed a lighter, tighter turning ski... it's just what i like. the graphics are rediculously sweet... k2 will sell a lot this next year.

i also rode some bacons... all i can say is, not the best ski for ice. i can't comment cause that's the last thing they're intended to be used for.

as far as i can tell, the rossi BC's are my best bet from what you guys have said. i'll try to demo some before i buy... thanks again for all the suggestions.
 
get scratch bc wrs, i love mine to death.

i rode them in mammoth on this big pow day and they killed it on everything, park, pow, trees, groomers, switch pow covered groomers. just an all around great fun ski, they are 98mm under foot so it is fat but it isnt too fat. also its real light
 
I stand by my BC WRS comments. I think they're lame. I think they ski not-so-fun-like, and I think they're impossible to find a good balance point on.

Ride before you buy.
 
also check out the chornic blend, i havent rode them before but i have the regular chronic and i really like the feel of them and the blend is supposed to just be a wider chronic so u might want to demo them.

scratches are sick tho
 
always ride before you buy. each ski treats different people differently. K2s require more strength I find, Rossis more balance. it depends on your style. if you are a highly trained rider though, you can rip anything.
 
Everyone is definitely different but I had almost an identical problem as you. I rode FS' and wanted a pow ski. So I got the BC WRS and I love them. I have the 04/05 FS and I find my BC's are better everywhere but in the park and moguls. They are probably a little lighter than my FS' too. They are great in the air with a low swing weight. I just prefer my FS' for the park cuz they are centre mounted. But I took my BC's out to Breck and rode their parks with them and they were great. Super stable for landings and ski switch great, land switch great. I didnt do too many rails with them though, didnt want to screw the edges up. But overall an awesome ski, especially if you are used to the FS.
 
Ever considered the most versatile ski ever: Solly Gun?...or similar?

Also, I'm a huge fan of the Head 90 (mojo) ski. It's stiffer than most, but it's super durable, and AWESOME in all of the conditions that you're looking for.

The Gun (94 waist - I think) is better in POW (due to fattyness and a bit more flex), but both planks still kill it.

They are mainstream, but the work goooood.
 
im not gonna lie when i say this that k2's are probably some of the best powder skis and skis in general. the 06/07 vicous 179 is plenty of ski for anyone to have. you'll never need more than that. awesome sticks w/ medium range flex for park and pow. k2 is doin it right now. but if you're not worried about price, as someone said before, armadas are pretty hard to beat so its up to you. you can also ask ski salesmen usually they know what they're talkin about.
 
i ski the live lifes everywhere. they are fat, but its amazing how light they are and how well they turn. they are super solid in the pow switch and regular. and i skied them in the park and had no problem getting big spins around on them.

the watch life's are sick too, but for a one quiver setup, i would go with the live lifes for sure.
 
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