division.bell
Active member
13142019:lIllI said:
Not it either.
This guessing game is stupid and doesn't matter anyways. You guys just play the guitars that make you happy and I'll be a snob in peace.
Alright NS. Who has the nicest guitar?
- Thread starter Aaaron.
- Start date
Not it either.
This guessing game is stupid and doesn't matter anyways. You guys just play the guitars that make you happy and I'll be a snob in peace.
13142042:division.bell said:
I've never understood why those guitars get so much praise. Possibly the deadest sounding/feeling acoustics I've ever played, especially at that price point.
13142047:division.bell said:
I'm genuinely curious now. I'm a cynical business major so I'm pretty immune to brand loyalty/identity. For purely utilitarian reasons, I always like to hear more about companies, both good and bad.
division.bell
Active member
13142120:lIllI said:
You ever seen many 6 string acoustics constructed with solid Maple back and sides?
Same kinda thing. Dead, worthless tones in smaller body shapes but jumbos or 12 strings seem to have a large enough body cavity to get the maple to truly resonate and project.
Not going to speculate on why the artcores sound that way but my best guess would be the lack of quality materials. In my opinion a guitar that is not constructed of solid tone woods, is a guitar not worth purchasing.
Fuck modern technologies and high pressure laminates.
Aaaron.
Active member
division.bell
Active member
Shit, should we just get a pool going or what?
Aaaron.
Active member
13142647:lIllI said:
i have to say, minus the whole "lawyer/doctor" and "modern nu-metal/rock" vibe that PRS players give out, they are bad ass guitars. A great friend of mine, with whom i study at school, is Paul Smith's assistant and my best friend works frets and necks here at the prs factory in maryland.
fender/gibson profit margins are incredible, 300-400% even at the "custom shop" level. Paul Reed Smith makes about 3-4 percent on their high-end guitars. discounting the korean made and the economy level american guitars, of course. if you were to buy a artist package PRS, you would be getting $3,000-$4,000 worth of a guitar, where as most gibsons nowadays will hit you with a $4,000 instrument that is really worth $1200.
Having been to the PRS factory a generous handful of times, i can tell you that the amount of care that goes into those guitars is incredible. jaw dropping attention to detail
division.bell
Active member
13145167:Aaaron. said:
Perfect segue back to the conversation.
How would you "be getting $3,000-$4,000 worth of a guitar" with PRS in comparison to another large scale manufacturer's $3,000-$4,000 guitar? What makes the PRS more "valuable" for each dollar spent?
Aaaron.
Active member
13145559:division.bell said:
you are able to quanitify aspects of the guitar construction, in example: quality of components (wood, finish, electronics, etc) and total necessary man-hours (and type of labor, i might add). This information is compiled into a manufacturers cost per each instrument produced. These instruments are then sold for a profit but where PRS shines is that the markup for the true PRS instruments (non se and S2) is much much less than fender or gibson.
whereas gibson or fender makes a 200% profit, PRS makes 10% or less
division.bell
Active member
13147725:Aaaron. said:
I'm not concerned about a manufacturer's profit versus their cost to produce each instrument, nor was that my question to you. I know firsthand the costs associated with building a stringed instrument using high end materials.
To simplify my question; what makes a $4000 PRS guitar worth more than a $4000 Gibson/Fender/insert guitar company here's guitar? In your opinion of course.
QuantumMechanic
Active member
My Reverend Buckshot that I brought to school with me. I've got two other Strats back at home.
View attachment 739580
View attachment 739580
Bombogenesis
Active member
Threads. I want to get an SG really bad.
For people who own one...does it "feel" different than other guitars? I have never really owned a guitar worth more than like $400. Will two equally skilled players be differentiated by the guitar?
For people who own one...does it "feel" different than other guitars? I have never really owned a guitar worth more than like $400. Will two equally skilled players be differentiated by the guitar?
13483132:Bombogenesis said:
All guitar designs feel different and have their own quirks. SG's biggest quirk is the neck being heavy in proportion to the body. For me it feels weird having the guitars weight distributed to the hand that's trying to fret, but I'm sure I could get used to it. Aside from that, I love the sound of an SG. They're very mid-heavy guitars that cut through the mix well. Personally, I'd get the studio since Gibson likes to charge extra for ugly/impractical adornments (neck binding), but that's a matter of preference.
Here's the thing: a guitar is only as good as it feels in your hands. A $5,000 guitar is junk if it's uncomfortable to play. The best thing you can do is go try one out and see how it feels/sounds. It's not unheard of to love a guitar's look/sound and instantly hate it once you hold it in your hands (for me it was Les Pauls). Likewise, you'll be surprised what you'll find if you just go in blind and try out as many different types of guitars in an unbiased way. Buying guitars is like buying ski boots: don't buy online and don't buy them for looks.
Bombogenesis
Active member
13483171:lIllI said:
I wish that I had bigger hands. Sometimes if the neck is thick or wide, I have a lot of trouble reaching. I've heard that this is a problem with SGs. I listen to almost all pop-punk and I know that it's an extremely popular guitar within the genre. A lot of my favorite albums were recorded with an SG.
The studio is like 2-300 dollars less than the standard. I had always wondered if the difference is noticeable. I mean $200-$300 when you're already spending $700+ doesn't feel like a huge deal breaker, but if the sound and resale value is roughly the same I'd be willing to be the theoretically "inferior" guitar.
13483176:Bombogenesis said:
I feel ya. I can barely wrap my stumpy Jap fingers around Fender necks, let alone Gibsons.
Don't get too caught up in using the same exact gear that your favorite artists used (e.g. "I need Fulltilts to ski like Wallisch"). You'd be surprised what a lot of guys record with. It's not uncommon to see metal guys in the studio recording with telecasters. I can sound more like Jimmy Page with a strat than I can with an LP despite the guitars being sonic opposites.
The difference between the studio and standard is noticeable. For one, the standard comes stock with nicer pickups, wiring, and higher QC standards. These are all things you can achieve on your own by replacing pickups/wiring, being selective about wood quality (hold by the bottom of the body and pluck the G string - pick the one with the thumpiest vibration), and giving it a proper setup. Whether or not that's worth it is up to you. Personally, I can't stand neck binding because I have to refret at least twice a year and it just makes the job harder (plus I'm not a fan of how it looks).
If for some reason the SG doesn't sit well in your hands, I highly suggest you check out a telecaster. The oversized bridgeplate makes them very ballsy guitars that just plain work; when you strike a note it just cuts through effortlessly, much like an SG. I'm actually considering building one for studio work and as a backup guitar for gigs.
Bombogenesis
Active member
13483182:lIllI said:
Nice, thanks dude. Seems like you really know your stuff. Maybe once these summer grad school classes are over I can shoot over to guitar center and try a few guitars out.
One more suggestion...don't go to guitar center.
Not because I'm one to be aimlessly anti-corporate (not that I necessarily disagree with those who are), but because of a much bigger reason: big box stores generally treat their guitars like shit. They often come straight out of the packaging and put on the wall without a setup. And since a guitar is only as good as its setup, you're essentially testing them blind unless you go someplace where they actually give a damn.
Search out the small shops full of new and used gear. They tend to be much more helpful for new guys, the guitars have been given a royal treatment before hitting the floor, and you can find some awesome deals.
Not because I'm one to be aimlessly anti-corporate (not that I necessarily disagree with those who are), but because of a much bigger reason: big box stores generally treat their guitars like shit. They often come straight out of the packaging and put on the wall without a setup. And since a guitar is only as good as its setup, you're essentially testing them blind unless you go someplace where they actually give a damn.
Search out the small shops full of new and used gear. They tend to be much more helpful for new guys, the guitars have been given a royal treatment before hitting the floor, and you can find some awesome deals.
TheHamburglar
Active member
I have a Gibby SG from 2006, its my pride and joy. To those saying the SGs are neck heavy, a little bit, but not compared to some other guitars I've played. Plus the guitar is overall a lot lighter than a LP, although loses a bit of beef in the tone. I use skinny top heavy bottom strings and get a mean sound.
notspoicey
Active member
just a non guitar player passing through
TheHamburglar
Active member
13483346:lIllI said:
From what I remember the more metal guitars, usually with 24 frets, jacksons, explorers, the ibanez weird X thing, all stood out as being very neck heavy. Like you have to hold the neck up with the left hand. My SG you don't have to hold it, but there is a slight pull. Try it on at a guitar shop to feel it
Aaaron.
Active member
I actually just put out a record... 100% self produced/originally composed acoustic jazz.
https://aaronagre.bandcamp.com/releases
https://aaronagre.bandcamp.com/releases
Bombogenesis
Active member
Can I turn this around? What are some good Pop punky type amps that can go for 500 or less used? Maybe a half cab. Found a peavey Windsor on Craigslist for 400 with the head and 4x12 cab
Bombogenesis
Active member
13484798:lIllI said:
itd be that bad lol?
13484848:Bombogenesis said:
It would be like using Armada ARGs to hit rails because they "look cool." In no scenario you'd use it in (i.e. non-stadium concerts) would you be able to reap the sonic benefits of a large cab because the wattage required to push the cones (and the resultant volume to achieve that amp saturation) would literally be heard blocks away from your house (I've done this). The benefit of big amps only exists in scenarios where those amps can roar. Not to mention that half stacks are a massive pain in the ass to own. They are effectively a piece of furniture. Imagine having to move a couch every time you wanted to go jam somewhere. Do you want to move couches or play guitar? There's a reason Craigslist is full of 4x12 cabs.
The right amp depends on what you'll use it for. So what will you use it for?
Bombogenesis
Active member
13484857:lIllI said:
small pop punk gigs. Think New Found Glory, All Time Low, Neck Deep type stuff
13484919:Bombogenesis said:
What I mean is how much time playing in your room v.s. playing gigs? How big are the gigs? Garages? Pubs? 250+ people with professional sound systems? Will there be a P.A. system at all?
The truth is that a 30w 2x12 is more than enough. Hell, I've seen musicians play stadiums on smaller amps than that. I'm using a 30w 1x12 combo with an 80w speaker and I can drown out the drums before my amp volume reaches 4 on the clean channel.
If you want more breakup, go with a lower wattage like 15w or 20w. If you want headroom, 30w should be plenty. Anything above that will do more harm than good to your sound because the amp won't be pushed enough for the tubes to saturate.
As for which amp to get, a good place to start is to see what amps are used by your favorite artists, then filter what you find by applying your criteria (i.e. find smaller versions of whatever amps they play). I've never heard of those bands, so I can't help you there. But it's generally pretty easy to find that stuff online.
Aaaron.
Active member
^solid advice. even a 12-20w amp is loud enough for most smaller settings. vox ac15 or ac30 would be solid! as would a used fender, blues jr or hot rod deluxe/deville. the peavey classic 30s are pretty cool as well!
i have a fender blues JR that has been heavily modified. I use it 50% of the times i play, over my bad cat and matchless. it's only 12 watts and can easily hold up to a drumset
i have a fender blues JR that has been heavily modified. I use it 50% of the times i play, over my bad cat and matchless. it's only 12 watts and can easily hold up to a drumset
Bombogenesis
Active member
You guys rule
Bombogenesis
Active member
13484968:lIllI said:
A lot in my room lol.. Small gigs. Less than 100 people
Bombogenesis
Active member
I've heard good things about those little 15 watt tiny terrors from Orange
13485055:Aaaron. said:
Drool. My next amp will likely be either a Bad Cat or Matchless.
I never got along with my Blues Jr., even with a good speaker. I think you need to mod them in order for them to sound good (please don't hate me). But stock, they sell well on the floor because they sound good in the bedroom. Sitting in a mix...not so much. I swapped it for a Classic 30 (scored it for $250 on Craigslist) and threw a Weber Thames in there and now it sounds very much like a small Hiwatt.
13485085:Bombogenesis said:
Some amps have a power scaling feature that lets you dial it down to 5w or 1w for bedroom playing, which makes a huge difference. The Laney Cub 15R is a great amp for this (a much better alternative to a Blues Jr. in my opinion). In short, playing 1w or 5w in a bedroom will sound more like a cranked 100w half stack than playing an actual 100w half stack with the volume at .0001.
With modern technology we have the luxury of getting a big sound in small packages, yet people still insist on crippling themselves with massive, impractical amplifiers, which inevitably end up on Craigslist at a huge loss. Don't be that guy.
13485087:Bombogenesis said:
Take that stuff with a grain of salt. Actually, no. Be extremely fucking skeptical.
The best way to pick out an amp is to try it for yourself. Spend some quality time playing it plugged straight in. How does it respond do your style of playing? Your bending, your picking, strumming, etc. How sensitive are the controls? What type of EQ wiring does it use (there is a surprising amount of variety in how different amps utilize EQ. Rarely will you find linear controls like what you find on a stereo). How is the amp voiced? Mid scoop (Fender) or more mid-forward (Marshal)? How much clarity is in the low end? Are the highs tight and sharp (Orange) or jangly and bell-like (Vox)? When overdriven, is the gain fine like sand or course like mud? Amp aside, how well does the cab image sound and fill the room? Is it 2D or more 3D? Another thing to consider is that a guitar tone that sounds good in the bedroom sounds like crap in a live mix, and vice versa. You get the point...
Like all the metal guitarists using telecasters in the studio, most rock gods who we associate with a wall of full stacks use tiny 5w amplifiers in the studio. Do yourself a favor and stop approaching the issue in terms of "Brand X is well-liked, or used by this person on a massive stage" because it will only be a waste of your time, money, and effort. Instead approach it in terms of the sound fundamentals. Listen actively to the types of sonic traits you like and dislike, and find an amp that caters to those preferences. Not only will you inevitably find that you HATE a lot of popular gear (it happens to everyone), but you will also realize that the best gear is the one that speaks to YOU. I can sound more like Hendrix using a very different configuration than him because I'm able to most effectively translate my playing style through a particular type of gear. Chasing brands names and models rather than sonic characteristics is akin to thinking that wearing the same size boots as Wallisch will enable you to ski more like him. The only way you can ski well is if you wear boots that fit YOU.
13499186:Aaaron. said:i just sold my matchless actually. it was too big and I never used it. Such an awesome amp though.
honestly, the amp i use most is the Acoustic Image Clarus
Playing jazz I assume? Sick album by the way.
Was the Matchless too big wattage/output-wise, or do you mean physically too big? How would you compare it to the Matchless? All the info on these amps I can find only demo/discuss how they sound overdriven when all I want is the pristine bell-like cleans.
I'm seriously considering pulling the trigger on a Reeves Custom 50 w/ matching 2x12 cab. Huge amp, I know, but I like as much headroom as possible, it's master volume, and it's less than 3dB louder than my 30w. Plus no other amp sounds like a 70's Hiwatt, so I can't think of an alternative...
fortyvalve
Active member
13485087:Bombogenesis said:
I stand by Orange 100%, I had the Orange Rockerverb 50 MKII with a matching Orange 2x12 cab and absolutely loved it (I may even regret selling it haha). I have a few friends that use the tiny terror for touring and pretty much everything else and it works wonders for them. Most venues nowadays mic your amps through the PA so even though the Tiny Terror is a lower wattage you wont have to worry about output.
Aaaron.
Active member
13499262:lIllI said:
I've used the acoustic image amp on all sorts of gigs. it's just perfect clean and full, and it weighs less than 4lbs. The matchless was the 2x12 chieftain and the 2x12 was too large for what i've been doing lately. i used it for two years and recorded with it alot. it was awesome. the badcat is only 20w, but is cleaner and louder than i've ever needed. also, the head and cab flexibility is so much better than a combo.
also, regarding orange amps, they are great but the tiny terrors haven't been the same since they moved production over to china... they are worth about $300-$350, so don't pay more than that
CabbyArrant
Member
1971 Martin D-45
