All-Mountain or Park Ski?

[DowsesWax]

Hey guys,

I just picked up a pair of bent chetlers (120mm underfoot) w/ fks 140s for freeride powder and I love them for deep days. When there isn't enough snow they don't really handle all that well. I have a pair of Dynastar Outland 87s I got a few years ago that I still ride but I'm looking for an upgrade as they don't seem to excel in any condition and they're quite a bit too short for me (I bought them when I was 16). I've never done much park skiing but I want to learn. I do a lot of hard charging skiing through trees/chutes/bowls at vail and other resorts in summit county. I want to be able to ski challenging terrain directionally while also be able to go in the park and start learning how to hit jumps/rails. Am I asking too much for a ski that can do both? Would I be better off just getting something like a pair of Blizzard Brahma's and taking them in the park or would a pair of twintip skis like the 92 k2 Shreditors be a good option for park/big mountain skiing?

Thanks!

 

[hot.pocket]

Moment PB&J.

101 underfoot, kids ride it in the park all day while their dads ride the same ski all over the mountain.

Trust me.

www.momentskis.com/products/pbj

 

[DowsesWax]

Moment PB&J.

101 underfoot, kids ride it in the park all day while their dads ride the same ski all over the mountain.

Trust me.

www.momentskis.com/products/pbj

Won't all that tail rocker make it's carving/hard snow performance pretty poor? Also since I have a 120 underfoot ski would it not make more sense to get something in the low 90s? I'm open to the PB&Js but I was under the impression that ~100 underfoot skis weren't really ideal in any condition and would be harder to learn park in.

 

[AngryGramps]

check out some ~100 mm skis. a lot of dedicated park skis are getting fatter and you can find a ski that has a flex pattern that excels at both. like for instance the revision talisman or the shredditor 102 are both fantastic park ski and around 100mm under foot, not a hard chargers per say but both are around 100mm skis that do really well in the park. look for flex pattern before width

 

[Negromancer]

I would buy two pairs of skis because if you plan on hitting rails then you're going to dull your edges which will make charging hard sketchy.

I'd buy a cheap pair of second hand park skis, you're just learning so you don't need anything expensive, they're just going to get destroyed anyway. Then buy a dedicated pair of all mountain skis.

Or if you really want a ski for both all mtn and park I'd look at something like the ON3P Kartels, 4Frnt Devastator (may be a little wide for park), K2 Shreditors, or Line Blends.

 

[DowsesWax]

The 92/102 shreditors are selling for around $350 new online. Blends go for $500+. 102 underfoot seems too soft snow / pow specific. Would a 102 shreditor still be a good hard snow / low snow ski?

 

[AngryGramps]

really depends on where you are located. if hard snow means ice then the 102 may be a bit wide, but honestly the width adds stability through chop. if hard snow means chalk and thunder, then you'll be glad to have the 102. I ski in Montana mainly and rarely use anything besides my 109 mm revision bodrums, because I like the stability added by their width. I own smaller skis but find them to be a bit more jittery and more easily deflected on hard snow. do you have the ability to demo?

 

[DowsesWax]

really depends on where you are located. if hard snow means ice then the 102 may be a bit wide, but honestly the width adds stability through chop. if hard snow means chalk and thunder, then you'll be glad to have the 102. I ski in Montana mainly and rarely use anything besides my 109 mm revision bodrums, because I like the stability added by their width. I own smaller skis but find them to be a bit more jittery and more easily deflected on hard snow. do you have the ability to demo?

Unfortunately no. I'm going to buy a pair on sale. I live in Denver and ski in summit county (Vail, Breckenridge, etc) and next winter I'll probably be located in Jackson Hole or in Denver again. Hard snow in these places is really more like western hard snow not east coast so I won't really be skiing on much ice just days where its been warm and hasn't snowed in a while. I'm also interested in the On3p Kartel as all the reviews I've read are stellar. Since I have fatties I'm thinking if I went the Kartel route probably go with the 98s.

 

[hot.pocket]

Won't all that tail rocker make it's carving/hard snow performance pretty poor? Also since I have a 120 underfoot ski would it not make more sense to get something in the low 90s? I'm open to the PB&Js but I was under the impression that ~100 underfoot skis weren't really ideal in any condition and would be harder to learn park in.

The tail rocker probably wont be an issue, and low 90s youre getting into some pretty near to park specific. I ski the line blend, 100 underfoot and shred everywhere. I dont go into the park too much these days but many people, including the TC guys, ski the blends in the park.

Tuna said it best, skis are getting generally wider. The PB&J is very similar to the Blend.

The tip and tail rocker allows for a more playful feeling when cruising or whipping through tight trees, but you have the entire ski length there for when you really want to carve through stuff. It may seem like the ski will perform sloppy with the early rise, but it serves more to add a little bit of playfulness to an all mountain ski.

The PB&J will rip through groomers, chutes, trees, and double triple crazy blacker than black quadruple diamonds.

 

[AngryGramps]

Unfortunately no. I'm going to buy a pair on sale. I live in Denver and ski in summit county (Vail, Breckenridge, etc) and next winter I'll probably be located in Jackson Hole or in Denver again. Hard snow in these places is really more like western hard snow not east coast so I won't really be skiing on much ice just days where its been warm and hasn't snowed in a while. I'm also interested in the On3p Kartel as all the reviews I've read are stellar. Since I have fatties I'm thinking if I went the Kartel route probably go with the 98s.

Summit is where I grew up skiing, I've heard lots of good things about the Kartels. Hit up slopestlye in breck, those guys know whats up. super core shop that can at least get you down the right path and odds are good whoever you talk to in there has skied what your looking at...and every now and then they have some killer deals in there too.

 

[DowsesWax]

I've narrowed it down to either Moment PB&J's 101 or On3p Kartel 98. It looks like the pb&js are about 70/30 all mountain park while the kartels are more 40/60 all mountain/park. Which ski do you guys think would be best for learning park while still using this ski as my everyday ski when theres

 

[DowsesWax]

when theres less than 6-8 inches of fresh*

 

[.lencon]

I've narrowed it down to either Moment PB&J's 101 or On3p Kartel 98. It looks like the pb&js are about 70/30 all mountain park while the kartels are more 40/60 all mountain/park. Which ski do you guys think would be best for learning park while still using this ski as my everyday ski when theres

Go ON3P man. I love my Kartels and the durability from ON3P is greatZ

 

[DowsesWax]

Go ON3P man. I love my Kartels and the durability from ON3P is greatZ

how are they not in the park? trees/chutes/steeps.. etc

 

[DowsesWax]

Also I'm 5'9 and ride a 185 bent chetler (which has a lot of rocker) do you think I should go with 176 or 181 for the kartels?

 

[.lencon]

how are they not in the park? trees/chutes/steeps.. etc

Amazing. I use mine outside the park 90% of the time. They're a super fun ski

 

[nutz.]

Also I'm 5'9 and ride a 185 bent chetler (which has a lot of rocker) do you think I should go with 176 or 181 for the kartels?

181 probably, although the 185 chets felt short for me... and I'm only a little bit taller than you

 

[.lencon]

Also I'm 5'9 and ride a 185 bent chetler (which has a lot of rocker) do you think I should go with 176 or 181 for the kartels?

I'm 5'8 and have the 176s. I have ridden the 181s before tho and I could handle them but they wouldn't be as enjoyable. The 176s are a bit taller than me.

 

[DowsesWax]

no shops in my area still have them in stock so I can't go check them out. Whats the rocker profile like, do they ski short? 176 would be my exact height and 181 would be 2 inches taller than me.

 

[.lencon]

no shops in my area still have them in stock so I can't go check them out. Whats the rocker profile like, do they ski short? 176 would be my exact height and 181 would be 2 inches taller than me.

Are you still growing?

 

[DowsesWax]

Are you still growing?

No.

Sizing down from 185 to 176 on a tip/tail rockered ski seems extreme since the rocker will reduce snow contact. But what has me thinking the 176 might be the best way to go is from ON3P's FAQ, "ON3P measures our skis using a post-pressing tip-to-tail length. Most brands measure a pre-pressing flat base length, which loses length when the ski is pressed. As such, ON3P skis will run comparitively longer than most brands. To us, it just means our ski sizing runs true to size."

 

[.lencon]

I'd go 181. You're still growing and my Kartels are a few inches taller than me as yell and they're great. So yeah go 181 unless you ski a ton of park

 

[Deforestation]

I'd go 181. You're still growing and my Kartels are a few inches taller than me as yell and they're great. So yeah go 181 unless you ski a ton of park

I thin said he's not still growing.

Anyway, I also have the Kartels in a 176 and I'm 5'7" or 5'8" so they are like an inch or two taller than me. I thought they might be too much ski (I got the 106's), but they are great and I'm still growing. Anyway, OP, I think you should get the Kartel in the 181. I was looking almost exclusively at pb&j's and kartel's by the end of my search, and ended up going with the kartel's because I heard that the Moment's were inconsistent with their durability, and that seriously worried me, while ON3P's are renound for their 'bombproof-ness'

As for whether you should go 98 or 106, I know you already have a pow ski, (I'm not implying that the 106 is also a pow ski, but it's definitely more catered to soft snow than the 98) but at the same time you live out west and don't ski a whole lot of park, so I feel like you might actually have better luck with the 106's. They do pretty well in pow and carve surprisingly well, but they really excell in the crud you see often out west and I take them into the park all the time. I prefer the wider bases for rails as they offer better balance, even though they are a tad bit heavier (barely noticeable).

 

[.lencon]

I thin said he's not still growing.

Anyway, I also have the Kartels in a 176 and I'm 5'7" or 5'8" so they are like an inch or two taller than me. I thought they might be too much ski (I got the 106's), but they are great and I'm still growing. Anyway, OP, I think you should get the Kartel in the 181. I was looking almost exclusively at pb&j's and kartel's by the end of my search, and ended up going with the kartel's because I heard that the Moment's were inconsistent with their durability, and that seriously worried me, while ON3P's are renound for their 'bombproof-ness'

As for whether you should go 98 or 106, I know you already have a pow ski, (I'm not implying that the 106 is also a pow ski, but it's definitely more catered to soft snow than the 98) but at the same time you live out west and don't ski a whole lot of park, so I feel like you might actually have better luck with the 106's. They do pretty well in pow and carve surprisingly well, but they really excell in the crud you see often out west and I take them into the park all the time. I prefer the wider bases for rails as they offer better balance, even though they are a tad bit heavier (barely noticeable).

Oh yeah I missed that.

But anyways op get the 181s.

 

[DowsesWax]

I thin said he's not still growing.

As for whether you should go 98 or 106, I know you already have a pow ski, (I'm not implying that the 106 is also a pow ski, but it's definitely more catered to soft snow than the 98) but at the same time you live out west and don't ski a whole lot of park, so I feel like you might actually have better luck with the 106's. They do pretty well in pow and carve surprisingly well, but they really excell in the crud you see often out west and I take them into the park all the time. I prefer the wider bases for rails as they offer better balance, even though they are a tad bit heavier (barely noticeable).

I actually called the guys at ON3P to ask what size I should get and they told me 181 which is what I ended up going with. I ordered them on skicenter which only had the 98s on sale for $450 (the guy told me this price is actually against their terms but since its a retirement sale they're not too worried) which is a steal for a brand new 2016 model. I was pretty set on a somewhat narrower mid-fat ski anyway because colorado often has dry spells where it doesn't snow in a while where the 106s probably wouldn't be too great. I think the 98s will do just fine in soft snow and it will be worth the trade off for the park/harder snow performance.

Thanks for the help guys when I created this thread I was pretty set on k2 Shreditors but I think i ended up getting a better ski for not too much more.

P.S. Mounting with Look Pivot 14s