Advice using inserts for binding replacement (ATK)

[marcomarinescu]

Hello,

I am looking to install inserts on multiple pairs of freeride skis so I can just use the same binding (ATK Raider 13 EVO) for all of them. That would be so much cost-effective and would make a lot of sense.

I have spoken with an official ATK rep and they said the following regarding using inserts with ATK bindings:

"The use of the inserts makes it difficult to adjust the toe piece for the correct alignment between the toe piece and heel.

In 99% of cases, incorrect alignment is the main cause of bindings and pre-releases.

Another problem to check with the inserts is the possible protrusion beyond the top-sheet of the ski.

The bindings must be always perfectlly installed in contact with the ski."

I don't see what the problem is if the inserts are carefully installed with patience and using the right tools. I don't see how inserts can affect the "correct alignment" between the toe and heel piece of the binding.

It doesn't make sense to buy a 700$ binding x3 for using on 3 pairs of skis for instance.

Has anyone used inserts with ATK bindings?

What do you guys think about this and how is your overall experience using inserts?

What inserts would you recommend and is there anything to look out for?

Thanks a lot!

 

[BallClapper]

Quiver killers.

 

[hamsauce]

I personally am not the biggest fan on Quiver Killers/Inserts. Im always on team 1 set of bindings per ski (excluding CAST toes). Here are some downsides/hidden costs of inserts/quiver killers you may not have thought of:

- My local shop in Bozeman charges $15 PER SCREW to mount. Some shops wont even touch them.

- puts big holes in your skis- pretty much kills the resale value.

- Brake width- if you have multiple touring skis, i assume you have a big day ski (90-100mm) and a pow ski (115+). Are you planning on reusing the brakes? or buying $80 brakes for every width of ski you have?

- the pain in the butt of unscrewing your bindings every time you want to switch skis- its just not worth it over time.

Cost of inserts + cost of mounts + time unscrewing bindings while your touring partner is waiting for you + brakes + value lost on resale > g3 zeds for under $300 new, or brand new raider 13s for under $500 new from a quick google search

 

[Lemuel]

Inserts are big in the tele world, and I’ve done some research on them. From my understanding, it’s crucial that the inserts are installed very precisely. I’ve read that you need to screw the binding on while the glue / epoxy is setting for the inserts, that way they will be seated as perfect as possible. Maybe try it out on a pair of beaters first?

For me, inserts makes more sense when having 3+ pairs and 2 sets of bindings. That way you aren’t stuck moving bindings all the time. It’s really not a huge deal swapping bindings from ski to ski tho, a little time consuming but it saves money for sure.

 

[elm.]

I think it’s sketchier doing it with tech bindings vs regular bindings because of the lack of elasticity. It is true tech bindings need to be more precisely mounted to release properly.

i’d stick to one touring ski or put the atk on your chargiest. 3 seems like overkill

 

[marcomarinescu]

Thanks for the info guys!

I personally am not the biggest fan on Quiver Killers/Inserts. Im always on team 1 set of bindings per ski (excluding CAST toes). Here are some downsides/hidden costs of inserts/quiver killers you may not have thought of:

- My local shop in Bozeman charges $15 PER SCREW to mount. Some shops wont even touch them.

- puts big holes in your skis- pretty much kills the resale value.

- Brake width- if you have multiple touring skis, i assume you have a big day ski (90-100mm) and a pow ski (115+). Are you planning on reusing the brakes? or buying $80 brakes for every width of ski you have?

- the pain in the butt of unscrewing your bindings every time you want to switch skis- its just not worth it over time.

Cost of inserts + cost of mounts + time unscrewing bindings while your touring partner is waiting for you + brakes + value lost on resale > g3 zeds for under $300 new, or brand new raider 13s for under $500 new from a quick google search

I made up the decision to skip the inserts altogether and just mount them directly to the ski.

As you said it is very cumbersome and difficult to make it right using inserts and so many things can go wrong, especially with AT bindings which have even less elasticity than the alpine ones.

I came to the conclusion that it's way to much hassle and unless perfectly installed there is always a chance for extra pressure points that will most likely contribute to pre-release issues or breakage.