ACL & Bindings

sonick

sonick

Member
Hey I posted this in the "What binding" sticky, but not responses, so I am trying this route.

Last year I tore my ACL while stopping, I was going fast and I was about 80% stopped when my knee buckled and gave

out and I am now currently 3

months away from skiing. I have '02 madtrix with '99 Tyrolia TD8 (din

3-11) which are set at 7 (5'8", 190lbs), and if you know the binding, they have a heel piece

that can rotate. I did tweak it a few years back so that helped it go but I never thought it would go because of stopping.

So my

questions are:

a) Do you think my bindings failed me and should have

released if there was that much pressure to tear my ACL?

b) I am going to get some new

bindings (about time, plus kinda scared to go back into those oldies), so what are the most ACL friendly ones on the market? To me a

heel piece that can rotate is safest for my knee so that I am not limited to just

forward pressure, but am I wrong in that assumption because there are so many that have stationary heel pieces?

Let's save our knees!
 
Well no binding is going to be completely safe for your knees. I blew out my knee last year, and have had no problem coming back to skiing. I use griffons, sth 12's, and px 12's and they all do the job. I would suggest new bindings if your's really are 11 years old though.
 
You must have been going damn fast to do that stopping. Either that are the ligament was already weak. Now I'm gonna make sure I stop a little more carefully this season.
 
Yes i was going fast, but nobody has answered my main questions, specifically are bindings with a rotating heel piece safer that fixed heels? My tyrolia ones have a rotating heel and just wondering for the new pair I will buy as I am more cautions about my knees now.
 
AFAIK the advantage of the rotating heel is more elastic travel meaning less pre-releasing. theres no great 'safety' advantage I dont think.
That said, I have pivots and think they are the best bindings on the market at the moment.
 
There is no safety advantage to the Tyrolia rotating heel (it only rotates once it is open, meaning once you are already out of it in a vertical direcion). Same with the FKS style of heel- Rossi even says it does not prevent knee injuries. There are other benefits to the FKS notably the elastic travel in the heel which helps prevent pre-releasing. Only the Knee Binding has been proven to reduce ACL injuries.
 
Hey guys so I've actually been doing research on this my past 3 years at UVM, and thought I might be of some assistance. I'm not the ACL guru or anything but I've done a lot of research on Ski injuries, I've collaborated with the Stowe based company Knee Binding, and I have worked on the rehab of two high level Freeski athletes.
So as it has already been said the FKS, and Tyrollia rotating binding do not lessen your risk for ACL injury in any way. This is because of two things the point of rotation in the heel and the locked heel rotation while the heel piece is down.
ACL injuries occur in a few different ways while skiing. The most common is "The Phantom Foot" mechanism. This occurs when you are attempting to get up while still moving after a fall, attempting to recover from an off balance position to the rear, and attempting to sit down after losing control. In this case your inside tail edge of your uphill ski catches and applies a twisting force to your knee. Another common way for your ACL to tear includes landing backseat on a jump. When your tails hit it creates a lever pushing your boots forward and causing a forward translation of the tibia on the femur.
This is why it is also important to have strong quad muscles. I can't stress biomechanics enough. Skiing is a tiring sport. The stronger your leg muscles are, the less fatigue you will experience. The majority of injuries occur at the end of the day when you are tired.
It is well supported that in a controlled environment the knee binding will decrease the risk for ACL tears due to it's 3rd dimension release. This means the binding releases medially (in) when it receives a medial force. This only protects you from the phantom foot mechanism. There is not any conclusive data for on snow testing.
Overall I think Knee Binding makes a great binding especially for those who have had prior knee injuries. There are some other cool features to knee bindings too. The binding has a separate 3rd din for the medial heel release, and it doesn't release laterally (out) at the heel. This way you are still able to hold your edge without worrying about pre-release. The mounting system is a floating system which avoids major changes in the ski's flex that is often caused by most binding systems (this is cool with today's rockers, and reverse cambers). Also the baseplate is the same width of ski boot soleplates. I don't know what all binding companies don't do this. I think the resulting edge control from the baseplate is actually noticeable.
If you plan on going huge and if you are the kind of person that doesn't ever want his bindings to release then these are probably not right for you. It's still a safety first ski binding.
I have a pair of the Carbon editions on my Line prophet 100s, my other skis are Scott P3s with Dynastar (look) PX12 bindings.
Do you think I'm wasting my time trying to find ways to make freeskiing safer? Do you guys care about this kind of product? Do you care about your safety? What do you think about a binding that has a max din of 12?
 
I care very much about my safety, I never ski without my helmet or back protector, but I don't use any equipment to avoid knee injury, like you said, keeping your legs strong is probably the best way to avoid injury in this area. I jog, hike and go for walks regularly to keep my legs in decent shape.

I don't think you're wasting your time trying to make freeskiing safer,

it's certainly a noble goal. However it is in essence a rather

risk-heavy sport, and I don't think any binding or other piece of

equipment will be a miracle cure to save knees. A binding is supposed to

keep you attached to your skis and release when you crash. I think time

would be better spent creating awareness around knee injuries, what

causes them and how best to prepare and avoid them.

Knee injuries are terrible of course, but there are far worse things

that can happen to a skier, head, neck and back injuries for example

that won't just keep you away from skiing for a few months, but might

keep you from walking ever again. I think making these areas of the body

safer in freeskiing will be better time spent in my opinion. Like that airbag thing

that Sverre Lilleqvist used in a salomon freeski tv episode a while

back, that seemed like a good idea.
 
The knee bindign is really the safest but its kinda expensive but you should definatly go with that since youve already hurt your knee and another injurie to that knee could put you out for a very long time
 
Thanks for the thoughts.
Knee braces/pads may be helpful in the case of something actually coming in contact with the knee joint. Such as a skier falling into you, or an awkward fall on a rail. Otherwise knee braces and pads don't have much data that supports their effectiveness in avoiding knee sprains. That is why you see them a lot in football but not most other sports. If a knee is weak while recovering from injury or due to repeated knee injuries many people will wear a brace for increased support. But wearing a brace on a healthy knee has shown to weaken the joint. Once again I recommend a good leg strengthening program, and proprioception (balance) program.
Other thoughts on safer bindings/ other safety products in freeski?
 
Asterisk-Cell-Knee-Brace-Red.jpg

 
That is not a custom fitted brace. So I can't picture it does much to prevent the forward tibia translation on the femur or twisting tibia motion often associated with ACL and knee sprains. I really can't picture it doing much for an already healthy knee, other than acting as like knee pads...
But do you know of any success stories from people that have used that brace?Do you find you fall one your knees much? or have any past knee injuries?
 
The asterisk knee braces are actually made to address the things you just said. They ARE customizable, via adjustment, and modification.

They also do some cool things with pressure. as the knee flexes, they change shape, and thus support.

 
i did not read through the whole thread but in my opinion turnable heels help preventing knee injuries. especially when your knee/leg flaps to the middle. this can be prevented by turnable heels. a friend of mine (girl) who used to ride NX switched to axial 100s because she tore her ACL that way. this season she came back after 1 1/2 years and began riding park again. she told me that and also told me that she noticed that movement once or twice already this season and her ski came off due to the heel.
 
Axial 100s are not a pivot heel either. You obviously didn't read the thread, because it was pointed out that the FKS heel does nothing more than other bindings for "knee flapping"

 
Your right, I was thinking the Axial2 series 100. But still, the pivot doesn't do anything different. In fact I would say it almost does more to prevent lateral heel release, seeing as how it has metal walls on the side of the heel cup.
 
There is no binding that mitigates knee injury except for the knee binding. This was told to my by my doctor who reconstructed my blown knee and is an expert on the situation. Your best bet is to get in shape, work out your quads and balance exercises. Since it can be scary to come back to skiing getting a custom fitted Don Joy isn't a bad idea. I was told it is the best skiing brace in the market and you can get them under insurance, which means instead of paying 500-600$ for a worse brace you pay 300$ for the best. Unless you are willing to sacrifice performance for a knee binding I would say just be careful for awhile, use common sense, and get back in shape.
 
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