Abortion, pro or con?

This is highly debated. But the argument is that if it cannot live on it's own, it isn't living.

Which is just kind of silly because some kids are 30 and still not living on their own.

ba dum psh!
 
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I'm eighteen, and if I somehow found myself with a kid and a girl to support, I could totally make ends meet with the jobs I have now, it would suck, but that would just be what I would have to do.

Besides, even if you can't afford to support a child after it is born, you can just put the kid up for adoption and then everyone wins.
 
the only thing snobunny got him on was some technical bs about property tax being included in the mortage payment

the other points are all worthless, and only speak to the fact that, yes through sacrifice and government assistance a person can be considered a fit enough parent to retain custody of their children.
 
Pro-abortion, we need some population control. The only one I'm against is that partial-birth abortion, the one where the baby's head is split open right before it comes out of the womb.
 
my ex girlfriend had one, and honestly its one of my biggest regrets of my life if not the biggest. I was too immature at the time to understand how important it was, and I had no clue the kind of effect it would have on my life. To this day, I end up bawling and sobbing when I think that my offspring wasnt given a chance. It was not the right time for either of us, and would have seriously shaken up both of our lives, but shit gets different when its your child, suddenly a seriously pro choice stance gets a little hazy. That being said, I do not think it should be illegal.
 
i continue to shake my head and laugh at the perplexing rationalizations.

there's a difference between stephen hawking and a 15-week old sack of fetal goop.

abortion isn't murder you dingbats.
 
My theory: Everyone should be forced to take mega birth control and required apply to have the birth control removed. Only people who are mentally, and physically stable enough to care for the child will be granted the ability to have one.
 
3 Months (9-13 weeks) [/b]

Baby

In the third month, your baby is the

size of a small apple and is fully formed. She has grown from 1 to 3

inches and weighs about 1 ½ ounces by month end. Her head now sits on

her neck and you can even see the whorl of a hair pattern on the top of

her head. Her head is still very large and makes up half the length of

her body. Her eyes are moving closer together and her ears are

continuing to form. She has taste buds and has developed the sucking

reflex. She is beginning to practice her swallowing too. Teeth buds have

also begun to form, as well as fingernails and toenails. Her major

organs, as well as her sex organs have formed and are developing

steadily. Your placenta has now developed and has taken over hormone

production.

Source:http://smartmomma.com/pregnancy/fetal_dev_3.htm

Fetal Goop hey? Wake up.

 
Many, many babies are born and require a ventilator to breathe. Therefore, are these babies no less alive than a two day old fetus in your mind?

There's a lack of logic here...
 
This is why I think counseling should be required. I know of only a few girls who have had abortions, but it has messed them all up mentally.
 
honestly shes a strong person, and it has had less of an effect on her, and if she could go back, she would probably do the same thing. Me on the other hand, it fucks with me a lot. Im sure part of it is that I miss her and am still in love with her, but definitely the fact that my offspring did not get a chance haunts me. I guess in many ways it was the right decision, I was about to head off to college and she was a senior in HS, so the kids dad would have not been around as much as I should be, and also things ended up falling apart and who knows if we will ever be together again. We have our whole lives ahead of us, and that would have slowed things down so much for both of us, and we were probably not ready to be parents (I know i wasnt, she could have handled it though). It is incredibly selfish to speak like that though, to say that it would have slowed our lives down, so it shouldnt get the most precious gift a human being can give to another, a chance at life. I just try to tell myself that everything happens for a reason and try not to hate myself for it.
 
Counseling definitely shouldn't be required. If someone feels they need counseling they should get it but to require it is fucked up.
 
I was pro... until a few days ago when I heard a story that I don't know that I was supposed to hear, though she was practically yelling about it. A 55 year old woman does not need to explain how bloody her abortion was when she was in her 30s at work... I could hear her from a few desks away. Still am pro abortion, but don't share that shit at volume 11 at work, I wanted to puke.
 
If a woman really doesn't want to have the child, good luck stopping her from getting rid of it. She'll find a way. Abortions has been going on for thousands of years (herbal, and other methods) and will continue to go on regardless of your stance.

That being said, the argument of conception is when life starts is flawed, probably 50% of "pregnancies" end within a few days of zygote development due to cellular flaws in replication. It's the bodies defense against continuing to develop a fatally flawed product. These "fetuses" are removed from the body along with the menses and the period can still be on time or only a few days late. This process goes unnoticed. Also, 1/5th of 1st trimester pregnacies end up miscarriage.

This world is vastly overpopulated and is approaching the tipping point of no return, we don't exactly need more families with a million kids when we're already dealing with impending water scarcities, food shortages, economic recession and other things en route in the near future.

If you're pro life, don't have an abortion.

If you're pro - choice, chose to keep or abort at your own discretion. (But please be responsible and use 2 methods of birth control if you aren't looking to have children.)

Bottom line is be concerned with your own life, thinking you can enforce your beliefs on others is ridiculous.

 
Yeah, and it's fucked up. If I were a woman and decided to get an abortion the last thing I'd want was state mandated counseling about it. The assumption seems to be that women are not independent or intelligent enough to make the decision on their own, and need counseling or a mandatory waiting period to think it over. It's absurd.
 
I'm not going to argue with you because it's really just a matter of differing opinions. But, I do have to say that quite a few states do not require parental permission to have an abortion-- meaning a 12, 13, 14-- any age child-- can walk into a clinic and get an abortion. These aren't women, they're girls. An assumption that they are neither independent or intelligent enough to understand the magnitude of their decision is fair in my opinion.

And when I say counseling, I don't mean that they should be coerced into having the child. I mean they should be checked to see if they fully understand their decision, if it's one they made on their own as opposed to being persuaded/bullied by boyfriend, parents, etc., and that they don't show signs of suicidal behavior. This would be counseling for the benefit of the patient, so I don't see a reason to be against it per se, other than just thinking that mandatory interferences of any kind are bullshit.

I'm a woman, and I don't consider precautionary measures ensuring my life altering decisions are informed ones an insult to my intelligence, mandated or otherwise. A woman can be intelligent, yet emotionally unstable and that doesn't make her any less of a woman. Additionally, a woman/girl can be a victim of domestic abuse and/or be bullied into the decision and requiring a counseling session could give them an opportunity to be heard or have someone to confide in.
 
In that case probably not, but involving her parents may only make things worse. They could pressure her into making a decision she doesn't want, either to have the baby or to abort it. I think the doctor's normal fiduciary responsibility is enough for a woman to make informed consent, I think requiring additional counseling or waiting is just stupid. People give informed consent for all kinds of procedures without state mandated counseling, why would we do it for abortion in particular? It's the doctors job to inform them anyway. And you may not personally find it insulting, but what if a woman comes in and is perfectly aware of what she's doing but still has to go through needless counseling? Like I said, people who need counseling should seek it out, but it shouldn't be forced upon every woman who gets an abortion.
 
your posts are usually really good, but this isn't one of them.

I didn't say the parents should be involved-- in fact I mentioned that parents could bully/pressure a child into a decision as well, so your first point is just reiterated what I said. Counseling would not involve parents, if that's what you're getting at.

What other surgical procedures are children able to undergo without the consent of their parents? If you're referring to adults only, your statement would be correct. However, we're talking about a procedure that is available to minors without parental consent, and as far as I know, they don't "give informed consent for all kinds of procedures without state mandated counseling."

We would do it for abortion in particular, because, as I stated above, it is one of the few, if not the only surgical procedure available to minors without parental consent. AND because abortion is an unusual procedure in that it can be a total mind fuck for people.

I already addressed your point in saying that for some the counseling could be a really beneficial thing, for others it might not be necessary but really doesn't hurt. However, to answer your question of "what if a woman comes in and is perfectly aware of what she's doing but still has to go through needless counseling?" The answer is that she will have an hour of her time wasted on needless counseling-- what's the harm? If 10,000 women who don't need counseling have to sit through an hour of counseling just to save 1 woman or child from domestic violence, parental coercion, or suicide, then I'm for it.
 
^reiterating*...please ignore typos.

On another note, you pro-choicers can't compromise to save your lives-- pun intended.

 
Um, no. He was being a fucking immature prick and threw out about a dozen half-assed AND COMPLETELY WRONG assumptions about her/young parents when she had been doing a pretty damn good job of articulating herself on a tough topic.

And no, you don't need government assistance just because you're young. Young does not equal needy or unsuccessful either. I know plenty of families that are middle to low income and don't need anything from anyone. They work hard, earn an honest living, they make ends meet, they are happy as can be and wouldn't have it any other way. You don't have to have a perfect life to have kids. Your assumption that someone who would have a kid at that age would or should automatically be under a magnifying glass as to whether or not they are a fit parent or are of lesser character I find laughable. Many of our parents and grandparents did it without problems, would you go back and nitpick their upbringings? Probably not, you'd get laughed right out of the house. Just because MatRich can barely pay for his own cell phone and car with his shitty job at his age doesn't mean others of a similar age aren't fully capable of living as an adult in a grown up society. So yeah, further assumptions that it's just not doable, etc. are just an admission that you're immature or didn't/don't have your shit together at that age. No need to attach any assumptions to others because of your own shortcomings, k? That's what I'm getting at.

 
thanks for making assumptions your self, you dont look any less stupid for doing that.

Im 21 years old and I make close to 40 thousand a year as one of the top camera salesman at future shop, Im on the road to getting close to 60 this year. I pay all of my bills, put money asside and build myself a credit even though I dont need it. At this point I still dont even feel Its a good time for a kid. yes I can pull it off, fuck I could buy a house by myself and still make it, but I dont think its the proper timing, because something like that would ruin future plans and greatly reduce everyones quality of life and I dont feel I could give the best possible life for my kid.

And yes snowbunny ( I think the name was) you have proven it is possible at 18, of course it is, I never said it wasnt. Most of the time however if you live in most middle to lower class places you dont have the money, or you have to put in so much time to get money that there is none left to further yourself.

at 18, I was so far from set to have a child, I think its a bad decision to have one at those ages even if you are completely stacked.

Oh and huck...stop calling everyone a dick and an asshole your starting to look silly. Yes I was being a dick, ok you called me out, but your acting the exact same way, its starting to be embarrassing to watch.
 
lol did I say I was 20 before? I always fuck up on my age hahah. I actualy realised I was 21 like 3 months after my birthday.
 
I hope your joking.

If you consider evolution just as valid as creationism, leave this forum now. Spend some time learning about carbon dating, sedimentary rock and how antibiotics are made (straight up evolution), then return to this forum. If you believe in antibiotics, you believe in evolution, because that is how they are made. The only facts supporting creationism is a book and the American South
 
Im pro abortion. This whole world needs to have a 1 kid limit for every family. We are too over populated and people just dont see the signs of if yet. We are going to have a planet that our kids wont be able to enjoy the sights and pleasures that we do today.
 
the truth is nobody knows how many people the earth can support. look at the studies, there isn't a consensus or even an agreed upon ball-park figure.
 
this. plus having studied population growth models typically a population can only go over its carrying capacity for a short period of time before the population drops back down. considering the fact that our population hasnt dropped id say we havent really gotten close to our carrying capacity yet
 
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