Abortion, pro or con?

pro choice is the only choice for me.

Lets say the fetus is inteligent or even remotely resembles a human being at the moment of the abortion, its completely false, but lets say. I would still favor abortion.

In many young peoples cases, if the baby is born, 3 lives are ruined. The mom: flunks out of school to take care of her child, never goes back. The dad: has to work his ass off to support this new family, sometimes with a girl he probably wouldnt have stayed with. and then there is the baby: raised by parrents who dont have sufficient money to supply for it, the baby has a shitty childhood and is probably brought up in a poor neighboorhood since its all the parrents could afford. the baby doesnt have a very bright future ahead.

accidents happen, pills are forgotten, condoms break... im a rational person. The idea behind abortion is that the fetus is about as complex as a spider at the point of abortion. Im not going to be forced into having no choice because of people who rely on belifs. the beleif that life is preacious or that god put every being on the earth for a reason. Its fine if you want to live like that, but I live by science and logic, get your fucking beleifs out of my life!
 
Well what if you have taken the precautions like a condom spermacidal lube, pills, a mistake at party, act things happen. Now a days they can tell if your child is going to be mentally or physically challenged and how bad it will be. If your kid is going to be a vegetable is it worth it. I know there are preventions but abortions should be used as a last resort. Poor teens that have kids will have to live off welfare and medicaid to help support the child. All that money comes from the tax payers pockets. Up to 8 weeks the baby is an embryo and I am pretty sure it has close to no intellect. After 8 weeks the baby becomes a fetus I still think that people should be able to abort fetuses but to me 16-20 weeks should be the limit. Its better of for the tax payers potentially and the women. Women deserve to have a choice in the matter its their right since they are having the child.
 
I have never had an abortion, no-- that's really none of your business, either. Please explain how my personal experience with abortion has shaped my views, because I haven't even stated whether I'm pro-choice or pro-life.
 
Don't worry Mike-O is just still young and entitled enough to think everyone owes him an explanation. I say butt the fuck out of others lives. Too many people care about what other people are doing with their docks, their pregnancies and their lives in general. Live your life, stay out of others' business.
 
Point still being, what does it matter to a rape victim if the unwanted pregnancy is ended with a Plan B pill or a chemical aftermath or a vacuum up the cagoo? Or anyone else in that case? It is still after-prevention or abortion in any case, the accident has already happened.

And what's this about me now, once again? I just asked her if she has been through the process and knows what's up. I'm not that young anymore.
 
My point was that very few abortions are rape babies. If you want a stat/source I will provide one-- so the argument that abortion should be legal for everyone because a small percentage may have been raped is like using the example of that guy in Texas who killed his daughters rapist as an argument for the legality of murder.

I'm not saying there aren't good arguments for pro-choice, I'm just saying this isn't one of them.

And yet again, to answer your question-- I'll spell it out--

IF abortion were illegal, there would still be highly effective methods for women who are raped to prevent pregnancy. This goes along with my point that rape is a bad argument for pro-choice.
 
But why this talk about abortion being illegal? Isn't it very legal in most Western countries?

Even so, rape argument not withstanding, abortion is a good thing when done properly. I'm not very familiar with these Pro-Whatever terms so I assumed you were against it at first.
 
A woman has to cary the fetus 9 months. She does a little more than fucking. As 2pac says, "I think it's time to kill for our women

Time to heal our women, be real to our women

And if we don't we'll have a race of babies

That will hate the ladies, that make the babies

And since a man can't make one

He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one

So will the real men get up

I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up"

People should have the freedom of choice and raising a kid in poverty isn't the best for the parent(s) or the child. Having a kid should take a lot of talking and thinking between the two. Teens aren't ready to take care of a child so there should be choices open to them.
 
Why does everyone rule out adoption? Just because a teen has an unwanted pregnancy does not mean that they have to raise the child. Believe it or not there are a lot of couples on waiting lists for healthy babies. Let's line these up and create a world of LOVE, SWEET LOVE.
 
My stance is not black and white. I think some abortions should be illegal and some legal. Here are my thoughts:

1.) Late-term, partial birth abortions should be illegal in all cases—except in the case where carrying a baby to term could potentially kill the mother. However, after 21 weeks, a baby can survive outside of the womb, so it is probably a very rare circumstance in which the baby threatens the life of the mother AND isn’t developed enough to sustain life if labor were induced or a C-section performed.

2.) Second trimester abortions—not allowed, with the same exception as above.

3.) This leaves us with first trimester abortions—same exception as above with a few others... Surgical abortions can leave the woman emotionally and psychologically scarred --even if she thinks she is fine going into the procedure. In addition, there are many other complications: http://afterabortion.org/1999/abortion-risks-a-list-of-major-physical-complications-related-to-abortion/

RU-486 is a chemical abortion that can be administered in the first 7 weeks of pregnancy. I see no reason that 7 weeks shouldn’t be long enough to decide to terminate a pregnancy (this is the one area my arbitrary opinion comes into play). However, I think that in order to be eligible you should be required to get a psych evaluation and counseling so that your decision is an informed one.



My personal stance—for myself—is prolife. I would not have an abortion and I am against it. I am against it for others as well, but I realize that it would make no sense for my personal opinion on the issue to dictate what others can/cannot do. I also recognize that there are valid arguments for why it should be legal.



And Mike-O, you said “abortion is a good thing”—I’m assuming what you meant was that unplanned pregnancy is a bad thing, and that abortion is a way of correcting it. Abortion is certainly not a good thing—a good thing would be if all unplanned pregnancies could be avoided to begin with.

As a side note-- honestly I don’t understand why abortions are so common-- well I do, but I don't. Theoretically if you’re pro-choice, you’re most likely democratic/liberal—in which case—you should be using that birth control you all shove down everyone’s throat. If you’re pro-life, you’re most likely republican/conservative—in which case you likely wouldn’t have an abortion if you did get pregnant. So who are all of these people having abortions? Don’t try to tell me they’re all broken condoms and .02% pill travesties. The majority are likely a result of poor decision making by liberal children under the roofs of conservative parents—(I have no source but common sense here, but if you call me out I might be able to find one)but this is just the result of lack of education which I could go on-and-on about.

Why does everyone count out adoption?
 
Because there really are enough people on this globe already. Not to mention how bureaucratical and costly the process is, at least in any Western country again.

 
Adoption is another option too. I think that every route should be open. I hate how catholics and other religions are all against it. There is a separation for church and state for a reason. Like I was saying earlier some babies will be born with severe disabilities. Doctors can see this in the fetus and tell the parents. Living like a vegetable your whole life does not seem worth it. It's a hard decision but some parents have make these decisions. People have the right to make their own decisions about whether they are going to abort or not. If you are early enough the fetus has no conscience. All these decision are hard decisions but they are for the best.
 
The couples on waiting lists to adopt babies are going to get their damned babies regardless. Going Juno would just be a better solution in my opinion than arranging surrogates or purchasing embryos. I'd like to think that if a U.S. couple couldn't get a baby here that they'd adopt from a third world country but this isn't realistic--shallow white couples want them white babies. I don't think that the babies that could be potentially adopted that are instead aborted are keeping the population in check.
 
Yet the point of having a child is procreation, sending your own genes unto the world to continue their reign. Why is having a baby such a thing in modern society, nevertheless raising someone else's offspring?
 
mad props. i am pro life as well but despite that i think you make the most clean cut sense in this entire thread. and i do believe pregnancy is very avoidable and the vast majority of abortions are probably administered to young dumb teens who learn a valuable lesson.
 
thanks and I agree. partial birth abortions are whack though-- cannot believe this is legal in some places and I challenge anyone to give an argument that justifies them. I understand why so many are pro-choice, but I think if people were more educated on the different procedures and what is currently legal they'd be more likely to be pro-choice with restrictions, rather than just all-in.
 
Too bad, thats a consequence you just have to accept in that sort of situation. I would also hardly consider "3 lives being ruined" a common byproduct an accidental pregnancy. This is North America, not Africa, you can make money and support a yourself and your dependants if you work hard.

IMO, your reasoning for abortions is a just a huge bitch out, besides, if you really can't afford to have kid, then put him/her up for adoption.
 
Why do you just have to accept it? On what principle? And im sorry buddy but 2 18 or 20 year olds are not exactly ready to have a child. 1 their in school usualy and will have to work. If you work hard enough you can make it? In this economy, 18 year olds make shit pay, especialy uneducated.
 
wat? I thought we were talking about 14, 15, 16 year olds...two 18 or 20 year olds should definitely be able to support a child. Not everyone was meant to go to college, either, if they were there would be no janitors- no one to clean shit up.

But....it isn't impossible to go to school and raise kids...If they were a couple they could move into marital housing, the man could work full time while the woman raised the baby, going to school online at home. When she finished school, she could go to work full time and he could stay home and go to school. When he's done they both get jobs.

This is the real world-- this is what people do-- it isn't impossible.
 
This even tho I don't have a vag but to that top post "Pregnancies Resulting from Rape  In 2004-2005, 64,080 women were raped.8 According to medical reports, the incidence of pregnancy for one-time unprotected sexual intercourse is 5%. By applying the pregnancy rate to 64,080 women, RAINN estimates that there were 3,204 pregnancies as a result of rape during that period."  check out this website:  http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims just because someone on the internet claimed they were raped dosen't mean they actually were or knows anything about it.
 
my god, how old are you? where do you live.

The way you speak sounds like your max 15 years old and come out of a higher class region which you never stepped foot out of.

Im 20 right now and there is no way I could appropriately support my girlfriend and be able to supply every need a child has. At this point I have a good job and its fine for paying my appartment and bills but a home is a whole other issue. The house market here is very expensive. 200 thousand will get you the cheapest run down house available.

lets do some calculations

Most jobs an 18 year old will get will top out at 12$/h. multiply this by 40 hours a week and by 52 weeks. you make roughly 25000$

An average morgage is 1500$/month, times 12 is 18000$

your now left with 7000$ a used car payment for the family van: 200 for a shit mobile. 2400: your now left with 4600$

Food for 3 for the month is roughly 400 for the month if your realy streatching it out: 4800$

We are now 200$ in debt and our child has no place to sleep, is not clothed, has no dipers. Municipal taxes, car insurance, home insurance, life insurance, school taxes... none of this has been payed yet.

Stop saying nice words like if we work hard enough we can acheive anything, actualy think about this shit and you will see how tough it is for these families. Life is not this fucking ferry tale where anything can happen if you truly beleive.

And also please answer my question about your age, I want to know if I should keep arguing with you or if your just too young to have a real clue.
 
yo man this snobunny bitch is stupid i've seen her post way dumber shit way back when i used my old account more.

just let her be
 
I've never been in the situation where I've had to choose, but I imagine it being a very difficult choice that will never be forgotten. I know a few people who have had an abortion and for both people it was the better choice, neither of them would have been able to support a baby at that age. I don't think it's cool to just kill what could be but I also don't agree with forcing someone to either raise the baby under difficult circumstances or give it away for adoption. It's their life, they ultimately should have the choice of what to do with it. And I don't think that way just because of the people who are raped and want to abort, it's a choice people have to make for themselves, their significant other, and the possible child.
 
Wow, who would have really thought you could have fit both feet into your mouth at the same time. Way to show 'em how being wrong AND being dick is done. Bravo.

 
Being a dick yes, but wrong? Where is my math wrong? Maybee i dont share your opinions but wrong, i am not.
 
First—in addressing the other person—I am none of the following: a kid, ignorant, from suburban Seattle.

Now, to address your post…

I am 29 years old, and I currently own my own home in Bellevue, WA. I have also lived in Issaquah, WA, Sandpoint, ID, and Bozeman, MT.

You say that you are incapable of supporting a child, and I don’t doubt that for a minute. However, there are many 20 year olds who are capable.

You said that I came off as having “never stepped foot out of a higher class region,” but to be honest, that’s how you came across when you said that 18 and 20 year olds can’t raise children because they’re in school. You do know that many young adults never go to college, and do manage to raise families in their late teens/early 20’s?

To address the rest of your post—which is honestly just a very unorganized hot mess—you make a lot of unnecessary and irrelevant assumptions.

-your first line states “most jobs an 18 year old will get.” But in your original post you said 18 or 20, and you’re 20, so this would seem like the more relevant age for your calculations. But seeing as a 20 year old could likely have an associate’s degree and more work experience, which would hurt your argument, I can see why you would use 18 for your examples.

-Who said anything about buying a house? A lot of people are never able to purchase their own home, or don’t do so until they’re far beyond 18, so I’m not sure why this was brought up. But, since we’re on the subject, you can purchase a home for much less than 200k in more cities/town throughout the U.S. than I have time in a week to count.

-You state that most jobs an “18 year old will get will top out at 12$/hr”—what about a construction laborer? Or a waiter at a restaurant with tips? What about two full-time jobs? Had you included 20 year olds in your calculations, as you had in your original post, factoring in work experience and possible post-grad education to supplement, you’d have a whole world of occupational opportunities.

-Why would you have a used car payment? Did you not have a car or any savings going into the pregnancy? There are many reasonably priced, reliable used vehicles on the market. I bought my car at 17 with money I had saved bussing tables and I’ve never had a car payment since. I’m not saying it would be unreasonable for a young couple to have a car payment—just that it isn’t necessary for everyone. She has nine months of pregnancy. If you both work, you should be able to save enough to purchase a car. In addition, you should be able to afford furniture and clothing for your child as well. It may not be brand new furniture—it may be off craigslist or from goodwill, but it works.

-To address your food concern, a family with that low of income would qualify for government assistance.

-and for your last bit, if you really knew anything about mortgages, you’d know that your quote of $1500 for a 200k home would include PITI.

I didn’t say life was a fairy tale—quite the opposite. I said you can make it work if you want to. Not everyone has the privilege of a higher education. Not everyone owns their own home. There are millions of families out there, busting balls and making ends meet. Is it ideal? No, but it can be done, and you can become successful.

My Grandparents started with nothing and they’re successful (see article below about my Grandpa), my parents started with nothing and they’re successful. They taught me the same work ethic and I bought my own home, by myself, without assistance from anyone at 25. My brother had a child when he was 20 and his girlfriend was 18. It wasn’t planned but they kept it, worked hard, finished school, got married, bought a house and continue to be successful.



link to full article: http://www.capjournal.com/more-than-three-dozen-philanthropists-honored/article_02835fd8-05b9-11e1-9663-001cc4c03286.html

496555.jpeg
 
Im not saying its not possible, you cant realy beleive this scenario is the most common one. Il give it to you, there is space to change in a lot of peoples lives. The most common scenario, I think, involves a lot of stuggling and a lower quality of life for all of those involved. All of that why? Because even though science tells us a fetus is not considered a living organism, people still beleive its wrong based on their beleifs. Thats fine, im not going to stop anyone from beleiving what they want, but i find it absurd that scientific observation can be put asside because of peoples beleifs.

And sorry for the shitty format and spelling, im on a phone.
 
Uh, no. It is because that fetus is living off of the mother's nutrients through blood.(placenta->umbilical cord) If it is living off of the mother then how is it not a living organism? So scientific observation is not being put aside. I agree though, to each his own.
 
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