A serious discussion about Pivots

[skierman_jack]

A little background: I have been skiing park for 4 seasons now. In that time I’ve rode Griffins, Jesters, Attacks, and of course pivots. I’m riding pivots on my daily driver park skis right now.

recently I’ve noticed this surge in demand for pivots and I’ve received some ridiculous offers for my battered and conglomerated Frankenstein pivots. I want to shed some light on the truth about pivots and why they are not maybe all they are hyped to be

Pivots are the BMW of bindings: they’re still just a car, but they have some luxuries that people desire. They are also really expensive and tend to break down more than the usual car and cost you a lot when they do. I currently own 3 pairs of pivots: 18s, fks 185s, and some older 12s. Of those 6 heels and 6 toes, I have 1 working set. The rest are for parts. That is the reality of owning pivots more than a couple seasons old. They will break and it will ruin your day. Mine broke again on Sunday and yes they are properly set up. Oh and if you’ve ever hiked with pivots you know they are a pain in the ass.

the Tyrolia Attack is like a Honda Accord. Nicer than people think, cheaper, and about 95% of the BMW. It will also run forever and when it breaks it will be easy and cheap to fix.

pivots are great bindings. They do what a binding should. The release feels consistent and the feedback from the ski is great. But they are not the end all be all. they have plenty of flaws including their price.

I get that there is this status around pivots. They look really cool and they have cool color ways and they are the “top tier” of bindings. But Tyrolia and Marker have been catching up with new colorways. And really there’s not too much a pivot gives you that any other cannot

As with everything: focus on skiing and not the gear on your feet. I shouldn’t have kids offering me 300 bucks for my excuse of pivot 18s just because they’re pivot 18s. Bindings are bindings. As long as you get good quality ones they will never hold you back. If anyone reading this is holding out for a pair of pivots: I recommend you just grab some Tyrolia attacks. You will not be disappointed at all. They will be just as good and cheaper

**This thread was edited on Jan 4th 2022 at 11:37:44am

 

[KooK_Luke]

This is a very important thread. I have skied a number of different bindings in park and big mtn scenarios. In both aspects, I have found pivots to lack compared to other bindings such as a Solomon sth or a marker jester. Both the sth and jester I was warned against buying, people told me they were cheap and would break, and maybe even result in a knee injury. I love pivots for aesthetic and the rotating heal, but everything else about pivots isn’t worth the hype. First of all, pivots are nearly impossible to click into in a backcountry/powder setting. The rotating heal gets in the way and if you have any snow on your boots, there is no chance ur getting clicked in. Second, everyone knows that look pivot brakes are the worst; not only do they bend, but the plastic brake stoppers snap off and ur left with a deadly skewer ready to impale a middle aged jerry in the landing of a jump. The most fucked up part about look pivot brakes is the fact that they are attached to the base plate of the heal and cost $100+ to replace. Also, I have had the white toe slide thing break on many pairs as well, not to mention pivots loosen over time and you constantly need to adjust them. Recently, I’ve been rocking jesters for the first time ever. This is a binding I thought I would never buy. So far, my brakes are in tact, I am able to click in smoothly every time, and the bindings feel sturdy af. Sometimes in pivots, my boots are able to move a bit side to side as I’m turning, I’ve never had this issue with jesters, or the Sth’s I used to rock. I don’t think I’m ever gonna buy pivots again unless I want to get the cast touring system.

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

I like pivots but I agree, the market has gone crazy with pivot fever. I mostly buy attacks now unless I find a good deal on pivots (which I did in September).

 

[betz]

As a dude who skies minimal park and has been on either markers, attacks, or STH bindings for his whole life, and just got on pivots this season, I gotta say I do notice the difference. All my other bindings I have to set to at least 9 DIN or else my bindings will pop out just losing my balance for a sec, but the pivots are much better at not pre releasing and mine are only set to 8 DIN. They had an uncanny ability to just release when they were supposed to, and my other bindings especially when riding in powder would pre release left and right. Otherwise they do seem a little finicky to get on sometimes and don't have the same powerful click in that STH's or attacks have, but the tendency not to pre release definitely puts them a leg up on other bindings. I'll just have to see how they hold up over time.

Out of the other bindings the attacks are definitely my favorite though. For the price and that it's stupid easy to adjust and it fits a pretty wide range of boot sizes so I can let my friends try my skis out. Pivots are nearly mounted to your exact boot size with very little adjustment which can pose some issues.

 

[mott]

sry but absolutely not lmao, attacks are fine bindings but as soon as you are landing switch on sketchy shit and generally hitting bigger features they are completely fucked. rode them for a season and popped out literally just getting on to rails like atleast once every time i rode (yes they were properly adjusted i re did the afd everytime before i skied). upgrade to pivots costed me like 40 bucks more than attacks and i have never pre released, very worth it.

 

[dkels]

I completely agree with this post and have shared the same opinion for several years. I rode pivots for years and eventually hopped off the pivot train because:

- the brakes are expensive if you break them or put them on different skis ($95 dollars compared to $25-$50 for other bindings)

- the heel piece rotates 50% of the time when you take your skis off which is pretty annoying

- if you ever try to sell skis with pivots on them, the odds that the person buying your skis won't have to remount the skis to fit their boots is low (pivots don't have nearly as much adjustability as other bindings)

- the price for pivots seemed to jump from $250 to $400 in only like 3 years

- I can get bindings for half the price with 95% of the features (like OP mentioned)

- Landing backseat on pivots sucks...

I think that when you click into a pair of pivots, you're clicked into one of the highest performing bindings on the planet (great retention/energy transfer/releaseability) but the cons listed above turned me off from these bindings...

 

[OhJay]

Question for those who have tried Pivots as well as Griffins, Attacks, STHs, etc.

Is the shorter mount point that noticeable compared to others? Do you feel it actually affects your skiing?

Mounted up my new dailies with Attacks for this season, and can't help but notice how long that metal track is behind my heel. Can't tell any difference though from Griffons and STH2s I've used in the past, but I've never tried Pivots before so am curious. Although reading through the comments here, even if there is a noticeable difference, not sure this benefit alone would be worth the switch to Pivots for me.

 

[pofwel]

A little background: I have been skiing park for 4 seasons now. In that time I’ve rode Griffins, Jesters, Attacks, and of course pivots. I’m riding pivots on my daily driver park skis right now.

recently I’ve noticed this surge in demand for pivots and I’ve received some ridiculous offers for my battered and conglomerated Frankenstein pivots. I want to shed some light on the truth about pivots and why they are not maybe all they are hyped to be

Pivots are the BMW of bindings: they’re still just a car, but they have some luxuries that people desire. They are also really expensive and tend to break down more than the usual car and cost you a lot when they do. I currently own 3 pairs of pivots: 18s, fks 185s, and some older 12s. Of those 6 heels and 6 toes, I have 1 working set. The rest are for parts. That is the reality of owning pivots more than a couple seasons old. They will break and it will ruin your day. Mine broke again on Sunday and yes they are properly set up. Oh and if you’ve ever hiked with pivots you know they are a pain in the ass.

the Tyrolia Attack is like a Honda Accord. Nicer than people think, cheaper, and about 95% of the BMW. It will also run forever and when it breaks it will be easy and cheap to fix.

pivots are great bindings. They do what a binding should. The release feels consistent and the feedback from the ski is great. But they are not the end all be all. they have plenty of flaws including their price.

I get that there is this status around pivots. They look really cool and they have cool color ways and they are the “top tier” of bindings. But Tyrolia and Marker have been catching up with new colorways. And really there’s not too much a pivot gives you that any other cannot

As with everything: focus on skiing and not the gear on your feet. I shouldn’t have kids offering me 300 bucks for my excuse of pivot 18s just because they’re pivot 18s. Bindings are bindings. As long as you get good quality ones they will never hold you back. If anyone reading this is holding out for a pair of pivots: I recommend you just grab some Tyrolia attacks. You will not be disappointed at all. They will be just as good and cheaper

**This thread was edited on Jan 4th 2022 at 11:37:44am

because rainbow

 

[migidimigi]

It is noticeable for sure especially when bending the ski for butters, taps, ollies etc.

Does it make you ski better or faster or smth tho? Absolutely not! The binding and the whole setup just feels better and more solid

Question for those who have tried Pivots as well as Griffins, Attacks, STHs, etc.

Is the shorter mount point that noticeable compared to others? Do you feel it actually affects your skiing?

Mounted up my new dailies with Attacks for this season, and can't help but notice how long that metal track is behind my heel. Can't tell any difference though from Griffons and STH2s I've used in the past, but I've never tried Pivots before so am curious. Although reading through the comments here, even if there is a noticeable difference, not sure this benefit alone would be worth the switch to Pivots for me.

 

[migidimigi]

I've been skiing park for 15 years, I've used griffons for 12 years and pivots for 4-5. Last season I had two park ski pairs, one with pivots, one with griffons, so I was able to use the back to back.

With that experience, pivots are better and they feel more solid and sort of make you more in touch with your skis. I'll pick pivots any day over griffons based on that and considerable durability gain.

That being said, the difference is no way worth the price difference. If you have the money, get pivots but if you are short on cash prioritise boots and skis and pretty much everything else.

 

[bennwithtwons]

how are your guys' bindings failing, pivots or otherwise?

 

[butter_69]

Well my friend you must be some kind of trust funder or something because none of us guys can afford your “supreme quality”. Or all that “ I need to set the DIN higher” bullshit. Just saying.

As a dude who skies minimal park and has been on either markers, attacks, or STH bindings for his whole life, and just got on pivots this season, I gotta say I do notice the difference. All my other bindings I have to set to at least 9 DIN or else my bindings will pop out just losing my balance for a sec, but the pivots are much better at not pre releasing and mine are only set to 8 DIN. They had an uncanny ability to just release when they were supposed to, and my other bindings especially when riding in powder would pre release left and right. Otherwise they do seem a little finicky to get on sometimes and don't have the same powerful click in that STH's or attacks have, but the tendency not to pre release definitely puts them a leg up on other bindings. I'll just have to see how they hold up over time.

Out of the other bindings the attacks are definitely my favorite though. For the price and that it's stupid easy to adjust and it fits a pretty wide range of boot sizes so I can let my friends try my skis out. Pivots are nearly mounted to your exact boot size with very little adjustment which can pose some issues.

 

[elm.]

I got pivots for CAST and pivots just have some kind of secret sauce that other bindings don't.

Also getting them on in powder really isn't that hard at all, just get all the snow off your skis and boots.

 

[skierman_jack]

to clarify: I do agree there’s a difference. But it’s not going to change the way you ski. Pivots are a nice to have not a need to have.

I feel in the case of young skiers getting into the sport as well there no need for such an investment. I see so many 10-16 year olds at my home mountain who over binding themselves.

 

[Lippamani]

I've been skiing park for 15 years, I've used griffons for 12 years and pivots for 4-5. Last season I had two park ski pairs, one with pivots, one with griffons, so I was able to use the back to back.

With that experience, pivots are better and they feel more solid and sort of make you more in touch with your skis. I'll pick pivots any day over griffons based on that and considerable durability gain.

That being said, the difference is no way worth the price difference. If you have the money, get pivots but if you are short on cash prioritise boots and skis and pretty much everything else.

Damn your old, jk but seriously I can only hope to be skiing park in 15 years.

 

[betz]

Well my friend you must be some kind of trust funder or something because none of us guys can afford your “supreme quality”. Or all that “ I need to set the DIN higher” bullshit. Just saying.

uhhhhhhh ok? I'm just trying to give my experience with them. I'm a 28 y.o. mechanical engineer, I make ok money for my area and I grew up with my mom on food stamps and was never given money for shit. I didn't start skiing until college and it was always on my own dime.

For this season I bought a set of 3 skis on craigslist, a couple with attacks and one with pivots which is why I'm still messing with the DINs on them, gonna probably sell a couple later after I've tried them all out. For my first day out though I tried out what the ski shop set them to.

But anyways, that has nothing to do with how look pivots operate. Most bindings release at a specific torque while pivots release at that torque + they move (pivot) a set distance so there has to be a prolonged torque for them to release. This is why they are better at not pre-releasing and the whole point of them is so you can set the DIN at an appropriate level for your skill and they will do a better job at releasing appropriately. I care about my knees so I try and set my bindings at the lowest DIN possible where they only release when I've had a fall and not when I'm still standing.

I'm like, probably a pretty shit skier compared to most of you guys but I think we can all agree that pre-releasing is not fun, neither are torn ACL's. The people who think pivots are just universally better on your knees and crank the fuck out of the DIN are dumbasses, the whole point of pivots are that they don't pre-release as easily, which is why they are better for skiers who ski hard. Me, I am just heavy, so just throwing my weight around sometimes normal bindings will release where the pivots don't. I literally just skied back to back on some Tyrolia attacks and pivots both set at 8 DIN, the attacks were on a deep deep powder day and the pivots were on a leftovers / mogul day. The attacks I was sending it down a little chute and they immediately double ejected when I had my weight too far forward, and later in the trees I hit a flat spot and I was still standing and one ski ejected for barely any good reason. With the pivots I had a couple of close calls where I almost fell and the pivots stayed in place. They also did release that day though when I just fell like an idiot but they never released when I was standing. So yeah seems like they work as intended.

 

[betz]

Question for those who have tried Pivots as well as Griffins, Attacks, STHs, etc.

Is the shorter mount point that noticeable compared to others? Do you feel it actually affects your skiing?

Mounted up my new dailies with Attacks for this season, and can't help but notice how long that metal track is behind my heel. Can't tell any difference though from Griffons and STH2s I've used in the past, but I've never tried Pivots before so am curious. Although reading through the comments here, even if there is a noticeable difference, not sure this benefit alone would be worth the switch to Pivots for me.

Like I said I just skied attacks and pivots back to back, and actually they were on super similar skis. The attacks were on 184 Moment Blister pros and the pivots on 184 Moment Wildcat 108's. I need some more days on the wildcats, but honestly so far I don't notice the shorter mounting point at all. Felt pretty much the same. Skis in general felt super similar honestly. Maybe in icier conditions or in the park I will notice it more. But yeah I would say that shouldn't be a huge factor.

 

[CatdickBojangles]

You think people are offering you a lot for pivots now you should’ve been around for the great pivot shortage of the early years of the golden age. Prices were insane. I used to go around to ski swaps and look for race skis with them on just to sell.

 

[isaacwrong]

i've seen many members on here and also snowshare be like:

"i've used pivots that have been used for the past 4 seasons...$350 no low balls"

 

[mrk127]

Pivots are the most overrated piece of ski gear to ever exist.

Change my mind

 

[betz]

It is noticeable for sure especially when bending the ski for butters, taps, ollies etc.

Does it make you ski better or faster or smth tho? Absolutely not! The binding and the whole setup just feels better and more solid

To be clear I didn't do any bending, didn't notice the difference just skiing trees chop moguls groomers etc.

 

[dynafitdaffy]

uhhhhhhh ok? I'm just trying to give my experience with them. I'm a 28 y.o. mechanical engineer, I make ok money for my area and I grew up with my mom on food stamps and was never given money for shit. I didn't start skiing until college and it was always on my own dime.

For this season I bought a set of 3 skis on craigslist, a couple with attacks and one with pivots which is why I'm still messing with the DINs on them, gonna probably sell a couple later after I've tried them all out. For my first day out though I tried out what the ski shop set them to.

But anyways, that has nothing to do with how look pivots operate. Most bindings release at a specific torque while pivots release at that torque + they move (pivot) a set distance so there has to be a prolonged torque for them to release. This is why they are better at not pre-releasing and the whole point of them is so you can set the DIN at an appropriate level for your skill and they will do a better job at releasing appropriately. I care about my knees so I try and set my bindings at the lowest DIN possible where they only release when I've had a fall and not when I'm still standing.

I'm like, probably a pretty shit skier compared to most of you guys but I think we can all agree that pre-releasing is not fun, neither are torn ACL's. The people who think pivots are just universally better on your knees and crank the fuck out of the DIN are dumbasses, the whole point of pivots are that they don't pre-release as easily, which is why they are better for skiers who ski hard. Me, I am just heavy, so just throwing my weight around sometimes normal bindings will release where the pivots don't. I literally just skied back to back on some Tyrolia attacks and pivots both set at 8 DIN, the attacks were on a deep deep powder day and the pivots were on a leftovers / mogul day. The attacks I was sending it down a little chute and they immediately double ejected when I had my weight too far forward, and later in the trees I hit a flat spot and I was still standing and one ski ejected for barely any good reason. With the pivots I had a couple of close calls where I almost fell and the pivots stayed in place. They also did release that day though when I just fell like an idiot but they never released when I was standing. So yeah seems like they work as intended.

I'm gonna agree with you here, the small difference in release on the pivots has served me well. I can think of several times off the top of my head where my pivot 15s released and I was glad they did, or else I'd have had a nastier fall. There are also times when the pivots held in (hard charging in pow/trees) when I really would not want them to fall off. To be fair I haven't spent a lot of time on other bindings. However, the fact that pivots are so hard to clip into, especially in pow when you're trying to hike a park feature, is annoying as fuck. If it weren't for the cast free tour system I'd be rocking griffons, jesters, or attacks.

 

[Angioedema]

how are your guys' bindings failing, pivots or otherwise?

I just snapped the brake on my griffons. This being said they’re 4 years old

 

[lil.Boye]

Tyrolia attacks is the only binding i have owned that have never broken, just bent brakes, which i have bent back without an issue. Attacks are so much more reliable than pivots

 

[drifts]

I got pivots for CAST and pivots just have some kind of secret sauce that other bindings don't.

Also getting them on in powder really isn't that hard at all, just get all the snow off your skis and boots.

You should be getting as much snow off your boots as possible no matter what binding you have, snow on your boots can really fuck the release point of a binding.

 

[Paul.]

How exactly are you breaking your pivots? And if you have two sets hanging around for parts are you able to combine them and make another working set?

 

[bennwithtwons]

I just snapped the brake on my griffons. This being said they’re 4 years old

i wouldn't say that snapping brakes off means your bindings are broken. i think we've all done that and generally it is an easy replacement and you're up and running again

 

[sambuswell]

STH2s are underrated on here. They have easy to replace brakes, a variety of colorways, consistent release, easy step in, and a proven toe piece design.

Do pivots ski better? Maybe, but I'm not good enough to notice a difference. It's reqlly nice being able to adjust my STHs for different boot sizes and sole standards without having to remount or buy new bindings.

 

[Lemuel]

STH2s are underrated on here. They have easy to replace brakes, a variety of colorways, consistent release, easy step in, and a proven toe piece design.

Do pivots ski better? Maybe, but I'm not good enough to notice a difference. It's reqlly nice being able to adjust my STHs for different boot sizes and sole standards without having to remount or buy new bindings.

This right here. Glad you guys all go pivot and attack crazy, keeps it affordable for us Solly fans. I’ll never put any other binding on my skis. I feel way more connected to my skis in the STH2 than in pivots. I’m going to go ahead and say it has the best toe piece on the market, and no other binding matches the step in consistency. It’s got a floating heal piece too, so the ski flexes underfoot unlike the marker or attack.

 

[CatdickBojangles]

This right here. Glad you guys all go pivot and attack crazy, keeps it affordable for us Solly fans. I’ll never put any other binding on my skis. I feel way more connected to my skis in the STH2 than in pivots. I’m going to go ahead and say it has the best toe piece on the market, and no other binding matches the step in consistency. It’s got a floating heal piece too, so the ski flexes underfoot unlike the marker or attack.

I’m interested to see how the new toe piece turns out and how this years power adjustment works. Always liked STHs but haven’t had any for years.

 

[shinbangclan]

straight up have to agree that Pivots are very overrated and not at all necessary to ski park.

I will say that compared with markers, my pivots seem to have a 6th sense, and release only at the right time. My markers would prerelease often enough for me to notice—but the pivots, never.

However, they're heavy. The heel piece spins all over the place and when you're trying to hike features it's mad annoying. Not to mention if you've seen the pivot thumb injury thread on here, you are scared shitless to put your hands anywhere near the mechanism.

But overall it really doesn't make a huge difference. Small preferential differences in bindings, none that are make or brake (lol)

 

[betz]

I'm gonna agree with you here, the small difference in release on the pivots has served me well. I can think of several times off the top of my head where my pivot 15s released and I was glad they did, or else I'd have had a nastier fall. There are also times when the pivots held in (hard charging in pow/trees) when I really would not want them to fall off. To be fair I haven't spent a lot of time on other bindings. However, the fact that pivots are so hard to clip into, especially in pow when you're trying to hike a park feature, is annoying as fuck. If it weren't for the cast free tour system I'd be rocking griffons, jesters, or attacks.

Yeah honestly I'm glad my pow skis are attacks / griffons, I don't really mind setting the din a bit higher for powder and the pivots so far are a lot more finicky to step in to.

For me, I didn't pay a premium for the pivots, I've literally never bought a brand new pair of skis ever, and the only set of bindings I've bought are attacks. It was annoying though because the pivots were the only ones I've ever needed to remount. Gotten super lucky with my other used skis that they all had enough adjustment for my boots. But you can forget about that with pivots, gotta pretty much have the exact same boot size.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Most solid binding ive found has been the STH2 16 but I also love how light my attack 13s are. That said I am valuing the strength of the binding far more than how light they are these days and I dont know that I'll get any other bindings at this point apart from STH

 

[MPoub]

Pivots will last if you take care of your shit (properly clicking out of skis, not just slamming the other ski on the heel).

Personally owned 5+ pairs and have never had to throw one in the parts bin

Pivot 12s and 14s have one of the highest elastic travels in the heel and toe (aside from STH) which some people may look for.

This thread is aids because no one is talking about the actual performance differences between other bindings on the market. I agree, the Pivot craze is ridiculous because Attacks work just fine, but if it’s a good deal, it’s a good deal.

 

[Chunderface]

Pivots are the most overrated piece of ski gear to ever exist.

Change my mind

gore-tex

 

[skierman_jack]

This thread is aids because no one is talking about the actual performance differences between other bindings on the market. I agree, the Pivot craze is ridiculous because Attacks work just fine, but if it’s a good deal, it’s a good deal.

I think I agree with that. If you find a good deal on pivots there’s not reason not to buy them. I just think it’s silly what people are paying for trashed bindings when they could spend similarly on a new pair of bindings that would probably be safer and more reliable

 

[AlexHallsEyebrow]

What is bad about hiking features with pivots?

 

[eljefe]

I'm gonna jump in here...

I was a diehard 'Pivot' fan forever, originally when you would get the fks 180 with the Geze toe. Then I ran the FKS 155 world cup version for a long time in the gold/black.

I for sure had pivot superstition. Overall, I DO think the pivot is probably the best binding for eliminating heal pre-releases.

Then, I got in DaleBoots, which have a lever for walk mode that was pretty low and I felt like the heel angle of the pivot interfered, so I switched to Attack 16's for a long time. 3 versions. The older triangle toe, and then the two more modern toes.

I DID have to run my heal DINS higher to eliminate heel Pre-Release. Overall good binding.

Then I went back to Pivots last year, ran the 14 toes rather than the all metal 15 or 18 toes. I will say that this toe configuration has more lateral torsional 'slop' in it than the world cup metal, but they did feel like a familiar friend.

Finally, being the capitalist that I am, I sold my Pivots for premium dollar to frothy young pups, and mounted my quiver this year with STH 13 & 16.

I haven't crashed or ski'd hard enough yet to release or pre-release, but I will say, I freaking LOVE the confidence inspiring engagement of stepping into the STH, and I might now be of the opinion that they have the best on snow feel of all.

And for context...I'm in the mid 30's club... been at the twin tip game since the 2nd year 1080(1999), and have ridden SO many different setups over the years.

 

[tri_photo]

I've had pivots on my K2 Pettitors since 2015, and I've only ever had 1 issue about 4 years ago, that Look/Rossignol warrantied super fast with no questions asked. I've had pivots on my line chronics since I bought them in November of 2019, and they've also held up with no issues.

To be clear - I did get good deals on both sets of bindings. Did not pay full retail price.

 

[DomRichard]

i’ve been on pivots for 3 years now and i have a brand new pair on my daily park skis

and i’ve always liked them. However I bought some beaters for teaching lessons and any urban stuff i end up trying, they came with attacks on them and they are probably the most solid binding i’ve ever clipped into, especially compared to the pivots. i’d recommend both to a friend but i think i’ll be on attacks for the foreseeable future just cuz they feel so solid.

 

[muffMan.]

Same thing I noticed. Got pivots got my jeffereys and I find myself comfortable at a 9 din which is my calculated din. Every other binding pops out for me at 9

As a dude who skies minimal park and has been on either markers, attacks, or STH bindings for his whole life, and just got on pivots this season, I gotta say I do notice the difference. All my other bindings I have to set to at least 9 DIN or else my bindings will pop out just losing my balance for a sec, but the pivots are much better at not pre releasing and mine are only set to 8 DIN. They had an uncanny ability to just release when they were supposed to, and my other bindings especially when riding in powder would pre release left and right. Otherwise they do seem a little finicky to get on sometimes and don't have the same powerful click in that STH's or attacks have, but the tendency not to pre release definitely puts them a leg up on other bindings. I'll just have to see how they hold up over time.

Out of the other bindings the attacks are definitely my favorite though. For the price and that it's stupid easy to adjust and it fits a pretty wide range of boot sizes so I can let my friends try my skis out. Pivots are nearly mounted to your exact boot size with very little adjustment which can pose some issues.

 

[muffMan.]

My gore Tex bibs just soaked while my new flylow bibs just repel water and snow like crazy. Gore Tex is wack 9/10

gore-tex

 

[saucelars]

I’ll be happy when i can set up tyrolias attacks with cast.

in all seriousness, i’ve skied attack 13’s for the past 3 seasons and absolutely loved them. other than an annoying toe height adjustment thing i had going on with my old race boots they were super bomber. released when i wanted, stayed the **** on when i wanted. Got pivots this year to run with cast and just from this season i have to say i’ve had amazing release results when needed. Better than the tyrolias ? probably pretty much the same but they definitely work great. if the world wasn’t on fire this summer and i didn’t get lots of work putting it out wouldn’t have been able to afford the setup though, and definitely would have stuck with attacks.

 

[Raf.Diaz.]

I like pivot

but whats the problem with the black plastic part on the heel i brake those piece on the first lap every time

 

[SlitherySnake]

What is bad about hiking features with pivots?

the rotating heel just hoses you cuz it twists when you click out half the time and then when you drop your skis to click in they twist to so you have to reach down and move em after trying to kick it straight and then going too far and generally just getting kinda pissed at em

 

[Canis_lupus]

Idk the money I’ve saved on free prostate exams alone has made it all worth it

 

[IsaacNW82]

I could rant about bindings for hours. But I'll try to keep it short-ish. First of all, I would like to say that I strongly believe that ski style plays a huge role in what bindings pre-release for you and what bindings don't. I do think generally Marker Jesters and Pivots are the best at not pre-releasing, followed by Griffons and Attacks, but this could be unique to my style. I find STH's, Squires, and Axial/SPX borderline unskiable, but again, that's a personal anecdote. If you have these and love them, you do you, but after ejecting EVERY big landing on my STH's at DIN 12+ (normally ski 8ish) and breaking the heel piece within 15 days of skiing I just can't recommend these.

When it comes to knee safety I have to mention the research done by Rick Howell suggesting a normal male skier on a normal 2-mode binding is expected to tear an ACL with the right crash at DIN 4. It's kinda complicated to explain but basically bindings aren't designed to prevent ACL tears, they are designed to prevent Tib/Fib fractures, which they do well. Ironically Pin bindings are almost the opposite, they are quite unsafe for Tib/fib fractures but surprisingly better for ACL's (reminder: Tib/fib fracture is a worse injury than a torn ACL; it is generally accepted that alpine bindings are safer than pin bindings).

Testing pin bindings for ACL and Tib/Fib safety:

https://skimo.co/tech-binding-release-testing

Sugarbush study, the foremost study on skiing injuries claims that there is little to no link on binding settings and ACL injuries:

https://blog.sugarbush.com/magazine/the-sugarbush-study/



So IMO debating the ACL safety between a Pivot set at 8 and a Jester set at 9 seems rather superfluous given that. I'd say whatever binding you're not having massive pre-ejection issues on with a reasonable DIN setting is about as good as you can get rn.

I do also want to add Pivot's like to destroy skis. The rumour is that its because they have a very narrow bolt pattern that sometimes misses the harder wood stringers meant to aid bolt retention.

Honestly I generally dislike all ski bindings. They all kinda suck. It is what it is.

 

[Lippamani]

Holy crap that's long

 

[IsaacNW82]

But anyways, that has nothing to do with how look pivots operate. Most bindings release at a specific torque while pivots release at that torque + they move (pivot) a set distance so there has to be a prolonged torque for them to release. This is why they are better at not pre-releasing and the whole point of them is so you can set the DIN at an appropriate level for your skill and they will do a better job at releasing appropriately.

I'm not sure you have this right. The force at the toe to release is the DIN setting and the distance is the elastic travel. This is true of every alpine binding. Non-turntable bindings still allow the boot to rotate, just at the heel cup instead of rotating the entire assembly. Also, if I remember correctly, STH's actually have more elastic travel than Pivots.

 

[skiP.E.I.]

how are your guys' bindings failing, pivots or otherwise?

Learning how to land switch breaks bindings. Going big on firm days breaks bindings. Skiing 4-7 days a week 20 weeks a year wears bindings out. The first 4 pairs of bindings I had all broke irreparably in what seemed like a pretty short time, because they were 10 and 12 DIN bindings full of plastic that were designed to be skiied 10 days a year outside the park. The first pair of bindings I had that didn't break are some Salomon 977 Equipe that are as old as me. They're twice as heavy as any other alpine binding I've used but the reliability is unbeatable.

 

[betz]

I'm not sure you have this right. The force at the toe to release is the DIN setting and the distance is the elastic travel. This is true of every alpine binding. Non-turntable bindings still allow the boot to rotate, just at the heel cup instead of rotating the entire assembly. Also, if I remember correctly, STH's actually have more elastic travel than Pivots.

I just looked it up and here are the specs on elasticity

Look pivot

Toe: 40 mm

Heel: 28mm

STH2

Toe: 52 mm

Heel: 16mm

Attacks, Griffons and Jesters

Toe: 30mm

Heel: 16mm

From this I'd say what's going on is with the traditional heel piece 16mm seems to be about as much elasticity they can manage, but with the turntable heel pivots can manage 28mm. Then STH2's look like they have the best toe in the biz but the pivots come in at #2. I think it's still fair to say the pivots have a better elasticity overall than other bindings