@ScubaSteve
Member
5D mark ii or 7D?
5D mark ii or 7D?
- Thread starter @ScubaSteve
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prontocuts.com
Active member
Depends how srs u is.
5D if you have the cash, bigger sensor ftw
5D if you have the cash, bigger sensor ftw
family_vacation
Active member
how about this?
TomasAa
Member
7D if you need 60P for smooth slowmo, bulletproof body, etc. And 5dmk2 if you want a bigger sensor.
Found this at Phillipbloom.co.uk :
Full Frame: 5d YES
7d NO (cropped APS-C sensor 1.6x)
Frame rates: 5d 24P ,30p
7d 24p (23.98) , 25p, 30p (29.97), 720 50p and 60p
Low light 5d just, mainly because it has less noise
Shallow DOF: 5d has more shallow DOF due it’s full frame sensor
Slow Motion: 7d can give you perfect slow motion by recording in 50p or 60p and changing the metadata to 24, 25 or 30p in post.
LCD: 7d, it’s slightly less reflective and brighter
Monitor Output 7d as it doesn’t go all 480p squished on our a** when we hit record like the 5d does!
Rolling Shutter 7d seems marginally improved, what this is down to I have no idea, but it seems a bit improved although still VERY present
Found this at Phillipbloom.co.uk :
Full Frame: 5d YES
7d NO (cropped APS-C sensor 1.6x)
Frame rates: 5d 24P ,30p
7d 24p (23.98) , 25p, 30p (29.97), 720 50p and 60p
Low light 5d just, mainly because it has less noise
Shallow DOF: 5d has more shallow DOF due it’s full frame sensor
Slow Motion: 7d can give you perfect slow motion by recording in 50p or 60p and changing the metadata to 24, 25 or 30p in post.
LCD: 7d, it’s slightly less reflective and brighter
Monitor Output 7d as it doesn’t go all 480p squished on our a** when we hit record like the 5d does!
Rolling Shutter 7d seems marginally improved, what this is down to I have no idea, but it seems a bit improved although still VERY present
You can get a plenty shallow DOF on the 7d. The full frame of the 5d is great for making large prints, but for anything on the web or up to about 20x30, you can get away with the 18mp from the 7d.
Noise is a little less prevalent on the 5dm2, but only because of the huge sensor. Buy fast glass, learn how to focus (manually), what iso settings work best (ISO 160 is less noisy than 100)... and noise is a non issue on the 7d. The 7d was designed to provide a high rate of fire in less than ideal conditions. The 5dm2 was designed to provide the sharpest images possible in situations where a medium format just wasnt feasible or affordable.
Other than that, it depends what you are looking for. I enjoy the crop factor because I shoot sports. If you have money for a decent wide angle (Tokina 11-16 or Canon 10-22) then you really don't need to worry too much about the wide side of things.
Whatever you choose, you will be happy with. They are both excellent cameras, just slightly different in purpose.
Noise is a little less prevalent on the 5dm2, but only because of the huge sensor. Buy fast glass, learn how to focus (manually), what iso settings work best (ISO 160 is less noisy than 100)... and noise is a non issue on the 7d. The 7d was designed to provide a high rate of fire in less than ideal conditions. The 5dm2 was designed to provide the sharpest images possible in situations where a medium format just wasnt feasible or affordable.
Other than that, it depends what you are looking for. I enjoy the crop factor because I shoot sports. If you have money for a decent wide angle (Tokina 11-16 or Canon 10-22) then you really don't need to worry too much about the wide side of things.
Whatever you choose, you will be happy with. They are both excellent cameras, just slightly different in purpose.
h.yfoskett
Member
i love my 7D dont get me wrong, however the x1.3 sensor does restrict you is some areas frm the 5D full frame sensor. for instance the 7D is not compatiable with the Canons 15mm fisheye. how ever it depends what you are looking for, if you wantit for video get the 7D if for photography its a tricky throw up, i got the 7D as it has a 7fps what great for action sports, how ever if i knew what i did now i would get the 5D
7D is better than the 5DmkII for video, no contest. Full frame is pointless since you'll be cropping the image to widescreen manually. Shallower DOF isn't an advantage at all; on the 7D I'm normally shooting f/4 or slower because at wide open my depth of field is only a few inches deep, which is impractical for most uses. Remember, APS-C sensors are the same size as S35 film!
7D has superior frame rates and monitoring. Lenses don't look as wide on the cropped sensor but then again, cropping a full frame shot with a wide will give you the same image as a cropped sensor. Besides, I don't see why anybody would need to go wider than 10mm for most purposes.
Photography- 5DmkII
Video - 7D
7D has superior frame rates and monitoring. Lenses don't look as wide on the cropped sensor but then again, cropping a full frame shot with a wide will give you the same image as a cropped sensor. Besides, I don't see why anybody would need to go wider than 10mm for most purposes.
Photography- 5DmkII
Video - 7D
PBraunstein
Active member
the 15 is compatible, its just not going to look the same. it wont be a full fish. IMO, the 15 looks waaay better on the 7d than on the 5d, but its all about what youre looking for. BTW, if you want the 15mm look on your 7d, just get a 10mm fish, it will be very close to the same aspect.
and on another side note, just so you know, the 7d is actually a x1.6crop, not a x1.3.
and on another side note, just so you know, the 7d is actually a x1.6crop, not a x1.3.
h.yfoskett
Member
you are joking, you might as well buy a standard wide angle lens and save yourself some money. you buy a fisheye to have a fisheye, and thank you for correcting me about the frame crop, it is a x1.6, i was getting myself confussed with the 1dmkiv. but in a nut shell your buying a camera, cameras take photos, if you looking to make videos with it get a camcorder, personaly the video that all the 12 year old ns go on about is a gimok to me
I also want to mention that you quoted the 7d as 7fps, when it shoots 8fps.
And your logic of fish vs. standard fisheye is completely wrong. A wide angle lens uses elements to correct for barrel distortion while a fish eye does not. On a fish eye, any lines not running through the central x and y axis will be distorted and out of shape. A wide angle provides a large field of view without creating distortion. Its a rectilinear image vs. a circular image captured on a square sensor/negative.
Please double check your facts before offering advice. Look at the following pages and they will give you an idea of the differences between a wide angle and a fish eye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide-angle_lens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisheye_lens
And your logic of fish vs. standard fisheye is completely wrong. A wide angle lens uses elements to correct for barrel distortion while a fish eye does not. On a fish eye, any lines not running through the central x and y axis will be distorted and out of shape. A wide angle provides a large field of view without creating distortion. Its a rectilinear image vs. a circular image captured on a square sensor/negative.
Please double check your facts before offering advice. Look at the following pages and they will give you an idea of the differences between a wide angle and a fish eye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide-angle_lens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisheye_lens
PBraunstein
Active member
well first off, the first part of your post is just dumb. this person above me cleared it up pretty well for you, but ill just reiterate the fact that just because the sensor is cropped, doesnt mean its just going to be "a normal wide angle." it looks completely different.
now, about last part of your post. you obviously have no idea where media and technology are heading. you do realize that full tv shows, news broadcasts and sporting events are being shot on SLRS right?"camcorders" as you put it, will soon be fully replaced by EMOS sensor, interchangeable lens bodies... wether they look like "picture" cameras or not, they will take over.
now, about last part of your post. you obviously have no idea where media and technology are heading. you do realize that full tv shows, news broadcasts and sporting events are being shot on SLRS right?"camcorders" as you put it, will soon be fully replaced by EMOS sensor, interchangeable lens bodies... wether they look like "picture" cameras or not, they will take over.
h.yfoskett
Member
im not saying that i know the sciences behind my lens, but my point is the the 15mm fisheye lens that canon has, is a full frame lens putting it on a x1.6 sensor takes the effect of the lens away. at the end of the day its a full frame camera against a x1.6 crop the full frame wins all the time
h.yfoskett
Member
all im saying is i've had my 7D for six months now and only once in the six month did i use the video recordings, why because i buy cameras to take photos, hence why im upgrading to a 5D next month
but here something i took of Dan Carr's blog
5dMKII
Ever since I got this camera last year I have been in love. The quality of the images it produces are quite simply breathtaking if you attach an equally nice piece of glass to the front of it. With it’s full frame 21MP sensor it easily produces the most detailed photos out of the 3 cameras. if you were to put a photo taken with the 5d and 7d next to each other there would be absolutely no doubt as to which camera took which photo. The results are night and day. With the price of the 5dMKII falling recently, the difference in image quality is not even reflected by price difference any more. If straight up image quality is all you desire, the 5dMKII is the camera you need. With such a large sensor though, any shortcomings in your lenses will become more evident. Particularly corner sharpness and vignetting at wide apertures. Pick your lenses carefully for this camera, only the best will match the detail produced by the sensor.
Video quality on the 5dMKII is far superior to the 7d. This is something that I have been asked a lot too recently and my quick answer has surprised a lot of people. To my eye, the 5d video is far superior in clarity and sharpness to the 7d video. That is not to say that the 7d video is bad, not at all, but it is not as good. The size difference between the 5ds full frame sensor and the 7ds 1.6 crop sensor is the reason for this. If absolute quality of the video is your goal, the 5dMKII should be an easy choice over the 7d. If multiple frame rates are a factor then that raises some more questions which will be discussed later. Right now, the 5dMKII is only capable of 30.00 fps although a 24/25 fps firmware update will be available in the coming months (it will not include 720p 50/60fps)
A couple of things that I do not like about the 5dMKII…. shutter lag and 1/200x-sync speed. The shutter lag on the 5dMKII is noticeably longer than both the 1dMKIV and the 7d. After some time you will find yourself adjusting to it but it can be disadvantageous if you are shooting simultaneously with 2 different cameras. I use the 5dMKII a lot at night time when i’m shooting urban skiing and snowboarding and it is still possible to time things perfectly with one shot but it is a noticeable difference. The second thing that I do not like is the 1/200 sync speed. This is no problem at all when shooting in a studio or at night but it makes it very hard to shoot with strobes outside in daylight. Other cameras have a 1/250 or higher sync and you can often push those even further with minimal flash banding. The 5dMKII though is stuck at 1/200. Pushing it even to 1/250 leaves a huge portion of the image unlit by the strobes.
If I am traveling light and not shooting any kind of sports then the 5dMKII is a no-brainer to pick. I believe it to be the ultimate travel photographers camera. It’s is extremely lightweight and also physically smaller than 1 series cameras which in-turn makes it more discreet. The batteries are incredibly efficient and 2 of the tiny batteries will keep you shooting all day long. Some people sight the lack of great weather sealing as a negative against the travel camera tag, but I would say just use on of THESE if it starts to rain. In this case, the positives far outweigh the negatives! By coupling this camera with the 24-105mm f4 lens you have a formidable piece of kit. Add to that a wide aperture prime such as my new favorite, the 24mm f1.4 II L and I would happily travel the world with only that.
Now on to low light performance. The 5dMKII performs the best in low light situations. You can make enormous, beautiful prints from photos shot at ISO3200 and higher. Even when comparing to the much newer 1dMKIV, the 5dMKII has a slight edge in low light performance, again thanks to it’s full frame sensor. Much has been said about the low light performance of the 7d, yes its good for a 1.6 crop but personally over iso 1600 it was not acceptable to me. This isn’t based on specific tests just real world shooting.
I’d like to say a quick note about frames per second too, obviously the 5dMKII is the slowest of the 3 in this category. 3.5 fps is VERY slow. If you only intend to shoot naturally lit sports, this is not the camera for you, you will need something faster.
Canon 7d
I had high hopes for this camera on its announcement. A fast fps camera in a small package is the dream for any photographer that has to carry their equipment on their back all day. I had to try one out so I picked one up as soon as they became available. Video functions were fun to play with, especially the 60fps 720p mode. Quality was acceptably high in the video but not as good as the 5d. Still much better than traditional video cameras like the Panasonic HVX though. Ergonomic improvements such as dedicated video buttons were a welcome addition over the 5d.
Who is the 7d for then? Well as it turns out, Canon did not make any leaps in image quality over the 50d. Cramming 18MP images into a 1.6 crop sensor was, in my opinion, a ridiculous idea. If they had left it at 12MP it would have been an entirely different camera. Unfortunately, with a camera in this price bracket they are targeting a consumer group that is not necessarily totally clued up on the technicalities of sensor size and pixel density. The fact of the matter is that I have had commercial posters printed 20ft wide with my 8MP Canon 1dMKIIN. 20FT !! And they look fantastic (check the galleries in my facebook group for some examples) You do not need to have a huge number of MP in order to make large prints, it is far far better to have lower noise than larger photos. For the most part, professional photographers now understand this, the new 1dMKIV is only 16MP and the Nikon D3s is only 12MP and there are NO complaints about either of those figures. Canon made the decision to put 18MP in the 7d just to appeal to the consumer market which has been sadly misled into thinking that the MP count is the magic number.
7d photos were not bad, there are plenty of examples out there to look at on the review sites. Compared to cameras in the same price category it is superior, but for someone who owns a 5dMKII and a 1 series camera the quality difference is fairly large. Rightfully so , the other cameras are FAR more expensive. So who is the 7d for then? The feature set on the 7d is quite incredible for a camera in that price bracket. For an amateur photographer who likes to take photos of many things from sports to landscapes and maybe the odd video, this one is for you. It is not the best at anything, but it does everything and it does it better than other cameras in a similar price range. If price is your deciding factor then this one is for you.
A few other things i noticed while shooting with the 7d:
but here something i took of Dan Carr's blog
5dMKII
Ever since I got this camera last year I have been in love. The quality of the images it produces are quite simply breathtaking if you attach an equally nice piece of glass to the front of it. With it’s full frame 21MP sensor it easily produces the most detailed photos out of the 3 cameras. if you were to put a photo taken with the 5d and 7d next to each other there would be absolutely no doubt as to which camera took which photo. The results are night and day. With the price of the 5dMKII falling recently, the difference in image quality is not even reflected by price difference any more. If straight up image quality is all you desire, the 5dMKII is the camera you need. With such a large sensor though, any shortcomings in your lenses will become more evident. Particularly corner sharpness and vignetting at wide apertures. Pick your lenses carefully for this camera, only the best will match the detail produced by the sensor.
Video quality on the 5dMKII is far superior to the 7d. This is something that I have been asked a lot too recently and my quick answer has surprised a lot of people. To my eye, the 5d video is far superior in clarity and sharpness to the 7d video. That is not to say that the 7d video is bad, not at all, but it is not as good. The size difference between the 5ds full frame sensor and the 7ds 1.6 crop sensor is the reason for this. If absolute quality of the video is your goal, the 5dMKII should be an easy choice over the 7d. If multiple frame rates are a factor then that raises some more questions which will be discussed later. Right now, the 5dMKII is only capable of 30.00 fps although a 24/25 fps firmware update will be available in the coming months (it will not include 720p 50/60fps)
A couple of things that I do not like about the 5dMKII…. shutter lag and 1/200x-sync speed. The shutter lag on the 5dMKII is noticeably longer than both the 1dMKIV and the 7d. After some time you will find yourself adjusting to it but it can be disadvantageous if you are shooting simultaneously with 2 different cameras. I use the 5dMKII a lot at night time when i’m shooting urban skiing and snowboarding and it is still possible to time things perfectly with one shot but it is a noticeable difference. The second thing that I do not like is the 1/200 sync speed. This is no problem at all when shooting in a studio or at night but it makes it very hard to shoot with strobes outside in daylight. Other cameras have a 1/250 or higher sync and you can often push those even further with minimal flash banding. The 5dMKII though is stuck at 1/200. Pushing it even to 1/250 leaves a huge portion of the image unlit by the strobes.
If I am traveling light and not shooting any kind of sports then the 5dMKII is a no-brainer to pick. I believe it to be the ultimate travel photographers camera. It’s is extremely lightweight and also physically smaller than 1 series cameras which in-turn makes it more discreet. The batteries are incredibly efficient and 2 of the tiny batteries will keep you shooting all day long. Some people sight the lack of great weather sealing as a negative against the travel camera tag, but I would say just use on of THESE if it starts to rain. In this case, the positives far outweigh the negatives! By coupling this camera with the 24-105mm f4 lens you have a formidable piece of kit. Add to that a wide aperture prime such as my new favorite, the 24mm f1.4 II L and I would happily travel the world with only that.
Now on to low light performance. The 5dMKII performs the best in low light situations. You can make enormous, beautiful prints from photos shot at ISO3200 and higher. Even when comparing to the much newer 1dMKIV, the 5dMKII has a slight edge in low light performance, again thanks to it’s full frame sensor. Much has been said about the low light performance of the 7d, yes its good for a 1.6 crop but personally over iso 1600 it was not acceptable to me. This isn’t based on specific tests just real world shooting.
I’d like to say a quick note about frames per second too, obviously the 5dMKII is the slowest of the 3 in this category. 3.5 fps is VERY slow. If you only intend to shoot naturally lit sports, this is not the camera for you, you will need something faster.
Canon 7d
I had high hopes for this camera on its announcement. A fast fps camera in a small package is the dream for any photographer that has to carry their equipment on their back all day. I had to try one out so I picked one up as soon as they became available. Video functions were fun to play with, especially the 60fps 720p mode. Quality was acceptably high in the video but not as good as the 5d. Still much better than traditional video cameras like the Panasonic HVX though. Ergonomic improvements such as dedicated video buttons were a welcome addition over the 5d.
Who is the 7d for then? Well as it turns out, Canon did not make any leaps in image quality over the 50d. Cramming 18MP images into a 1.6 crop sensor was, in my opinion, a ridiculous idea. If they had left it at 12MP it would have been an entirely different camera. Unfortunately, with a camera in this price bracket they are targeting a consumer group that is not necessarily totally clued up on the technicalities of sensor size and pixel density. The fact of the matter is that I have had commercial posters printed 20ft wide with my 8MP Canon 1dMKIIN. 20FT !! And they look fantastic (check the galleries in my facebook group for some examples) You do not need to have a huge number of MP in order to make large prints, it is far far better to have lower noise than larger photos. For the most part, professional photographers now understand this, the new 1dMKIV is only 16MP and the Nikon D3s is only 12MP and there are NO complaints about either of those figures. Canon made the decision to put 18MP in the 7d just to appeal to the consumer market which has been sadly misled into thinking that the MP count is the magic number.
7d photos were not bad, there are plenty of examples out there to look at on the review sites. Compared to cameras in the same price category it is superior, but for someone who owns a 5dMKII and a 1 series camera the quality difference is fairly large. Rightfully so , the other cameras are FAR more expensive. So who is the 7d for then? The feature set on the 7d is quite incredible for a camera in that price bracket. For an amateur photographer who likes to take photos of many things from sports to landscapes and maybe the odd video, this one is for you. It is not the best at anything, but it does everything and it does it better than other cameras in a similar price range. If price is your deciding factor then this one is for you.
A few other things i noticed while shooting with the 7d:
- 8fps is not always 8fps. The camera slows down the max FPS in darker situations or when using a lens with a small maximum aperture. Try firing a burt at 8fps and then covering your lens with your hand to hear it slow down even with shutter priority set to a high enough shutter speed to maintain 8fps. I spoke to Canon about this issue, they were aware of it and said it was simply a feature of the camera.
- Spot AF point is a great idea. The 7d allows use of a spot auto focus point that is much smaller than the others making it easy to focus on tiny subjects far away. It works very well.
- The auto focus system in general is excellent. As good as my old 1dMKII , but far far inferior to the new 1dMKIV
- Weather sealing is great, i shot all day with the camera soaking wet. No problems.
- Its very light but sturdily built. Oxymoron? No , compared to a 1 series it is very lightweight but at the same time it feels solid in the hand.
- AF point selection is a bit over complicated for my tastes. I prefer the simpler 1dMKIV.
- 1/250 sync is fine but it cannot be pushed to 1/320 like the majority of the 1series cameras. Pushing past 250 produces significant banding.
- JPEGS from the camera exhibit significant noise reduction and smoothing. They need considerable sharpening in post, but they respond well to the sharpening. Try and shoot in RAW when possible.
- If one more person asks me if the 5d quality is really that much better than the 7d I will stop answering e-mail questions The difference is night and day. Full frame vs 1.6 crop , c’mon people!!
