4frnt, Matt Sterbenz, and customer service...

CTD

CTD

Active member
Ok, last year, I rode 4frnt stls, 177s. they were cool, but way too soft for me. they actually ended up in negative camber, and super slow rebound, and eventually cracked in half. They originally wouldn’t warranty um, for some BS reason. Only after a lengthy email to Matt detailing how I had personally sold around 15 pairs of their skis for them, and how I thought it was shitty that they couldn’t do anything for me, did I get any kind of cooperation. Finally, I was able to get a pair of this years 183 stls for proform (250), with an addional pair of slightly used 177s (last years) thrown in to replace my broke ones. I was still pretty pissed I had to toss down any extra cash, but it wasn’t at all a bad deal for 2 pairs of skis.

Well, around to this season. This years stls are by far, the single most amazing ski I have ever rode. I have never in my life been more impressed with the way a ski rides than with these. I mean, this ski is perfect for me. however, after 4 days on them, I delamed the shit outta the tail of the right ski. I was riding with Chris Ashcraft, who is the Midwest rep for 4frnt, and a great guy. We talked, and the next day I called him, and we got the information into 4frnt to get them replaced. Well, nothing happened, and said fuck it, and just kept riding my skis.

Well now, about a month later, I finally get an email from matt, telling me to send in pics, and they would get me a return authorization or something, and I would have to ship my skis back, and then they would get me a new pair, when they get around to it. Personally, I think this is BS, especially when I ride with their rep almost every week. So, I sent him a reply saying that that isn’t gonna work, cause I don’t want to be without skis for 2 weeks, cause its comp season. I sent him pictures of all 5 warrantable breaks, and asked if was something that could be done THROUGH Chris, so that I would not have to miss comps. I mean, after all, they origioanlly broke over a month ago! So last night, I got a short email from matt telling me that he was busy with the tradeshows, and would get back to me afterward.

so bottom line, im really pissed, cause I fucking love these skis, and would have no problem riding them or riding for 4frnt, but their customer service has been fucking horrible. And it seems like the only way to get any cooperation outta Sterbenz is to threaten shit like this. Its really pretty lame, cause these skis are legitimately broke, and should have been warrentied at least 3 weeks ago. and, for the icing on the cake, the rep for the entire Midwest region rides all the time at my home resort, and I ride with him all the time. its just total BS. And it sucks, cause I don’t know if I wanna ride with them next winter, and am gonna have to go through the whole process again. SHITTY!!!

 
that is lame.

but to be fair, getting return authorization, and shipping in the skis in order to get new ones is a standard procedure across companies.
 
yeah, i know. and i wouldnt have had a prob with that if it were taken care of in mid december when it first happened, not a month later in the middle of comp season.
 
yea dude that sucks. youd think that if you buy there skis and ski w/ there rep and shit theyd take care of u better...
 
i'm going to get killed for calling 4frnt a "smaller country, but even though there a big name, k2 is still bigger, which means they have more money to benefit things like your issue, i delamminated my fujitives 2 weeks ago, brought them back to the store and i should be getting skis any day, and they let me borrow a pair of public enemies, and my fujitives are the red ones, a few years old yet still warrentied
 
that sucks man. also 4frnt makes you pay for skis still even though they sponsor you? i guess proform is tight but damn youd think theyd give you top priority and get you some new skis quick if they want u to rock theyre stuff in comps.
 
I think that you gotta understand where sterbenz is coming from. He is super busy and it is tradeshow season. Do you really not have another pair of skis that you can use for 2 weeks? What happened to the other pair of stl's they sent you. I certainly do not think that it is unreasonable to ask you to send in the skis first seeing as that is standard procedure. I don't really think you're in a position to say that 4frnt has horrible customer service. Maybe it's not as convenient as you wished it would be but I don't think its right to say its horrible...
 
I can agree more with you man, 4FRNT warrranty is a BIG ZERO. they fuskin suck Im so bad u pay the biggest price and get the worst thing
 
True man, first years of 4frnt, I bought some MSP, 3 weeks after
11376404194frnt2.JPG
. I didnt tried to warranty them cause I knew those damage came because of rails, but this years I bought some 06 STL ... after my 3 day of ski I noticed that thing ,
11376403984frnt3.JPG
I was dissapointed and e-mailed 4frnt. They told me that it was covered by the warranty and I needed to pay if I would want another ski(1). Im pissed cause my ski are still like brand new but I can't ski them. I dunno if they had a defect or anything but I still can't imagine ive broke in within 1week of skiing.

Be sure that when I will have some money I will go get some rossi, k2 ski and get a real warranty. Peace
 
thats wierd dude, ive had nothing but good experiences. i had a pair of msps when they first came out, sick ski. had a binding rip out, and got em warrenteed. got sent a new pair, and got to keep my old ones. had em helicoiled, worked great. and the 06 stls i have right nor have held up for like 6 days so far, we'll see. just a few chips tip and tail edge where the skis the widest.
 
heres some pics of my skis.

this is the first thing that broke. tail split at edge seem and delamed about 2 inches into the ski. i have un bolted pics around here somewhere. i epoxied them and put dual washers with a chainring bolt through it. it actually is a great way to fix um, and has held up pretty good.

hpim00628oz.jpg


Obviously this isnt warrentiable, as its rail damage. but still really sucks. ive never lost edge on any ski, specially after only a month of riding. granted, i slide a ton of big rails, but still not too happy bout it.

hpim00637oc.jpg


the next two pics show where the tip is cracked. somehow it folded, and the topsheet, both layers of glass, and the base either cracked or buldged up. when the base bludged out, it bend the edge a ton. kinda visable in second pic.

hpim00640dk.jpg


hpim00650fv.jpg


here is the tail of the other ski, and WHAT?!?! it delamed, right at the edge seem, just like the other one. and i didnt bend that, it was like that when i first saw it, i guess from landing big jumps or somethin.

hpim00662pk.jpg


heres a shot of some more delam. this is topsheet AND glass, and its about an inch deep into the ski. oh yeah, i also riped that brake clear off the ski. that sucks too.

hpim00650fv.jpg
 
Agreed bro this kid is trippin. Who the hell are you to say "send me a free ski site unseen!"

You moron buy the effing ski from your shop and then when the whole staff at 4frnt, who went from the open to vegas right to Xgames (there's nobody even answering phones there this week) gets back to the new office they'll warrenty your ski. Then when it comes sell it back to your damn store. It isn't rocket science. If your store is out do it at another store or through that rep that you seem to be "so cool" with.

Anyways skis break. And companies get busy in December and January. There isn't a ski company out there that would send you a free ski before first receiving your Return Authorized warrantiable pair and pocessing a warrant replacement order END OF STORY.

Comp season? If you are really that good you wouldn't be such a bitch.
 
it was really hard getting mine warrantied too i was actually IN whistler with the team and matt so thats why it worked out so well but earlier that season i sent them pics and an email and showed the rep and there wasnt really anything happening.
 
I have had the same thing happen. Short version... After about 8 days on my 183 STLs one tip completly aligatored (you can see the core) and the other tip is cracked along the edge/glass seam. What made me mad was that I teach park skiing, so most of the time I am standing and coaching, not skiing. The skis look new. I teach 3-4 days a week on skis, so I need skis. 4frnt wasn't exactly helpful and my shop has no long twins left. So I ordered a pair of Foils. They came in 1 week and I think I like them more than the STLs (see my review https://www.newschoolers.com/ns3/web/forums/readthread.php?thread_id=175925&)

I will post a full Foil review soon.

--rick
 
did you even read what i said?!?!?! dont come here actin like im some kid who doesnt have a clue whats goin on. these things broke the 4th time out, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE REP!! that is pretty legit, and i was expecting to be able to send them back right then and there, which wouldnt be a problem. i gave them all the info and shit they wanted, and waited to hear back from them with any kind of updates. nothing. and a comp and a tradeshow is no reason to leave your company totally diserted for a week and a half. i now have 2 comps this weekend, and i am gonna have to ride both of um with broke ass skis. its pretty shitty customer service if you ask me, specially when ive gotten much better CS from companies like dynastar, salomon, and line.
 
same here...this years MSP's...got em slightly used but they seem to be in good shape...
 
my MSPs did the exact same thing. they said there was no way that something like that could happen unless i ran into something like a rock, tree, etc, but in fact, it happened while i was just regular skiing, not even in the park. i was just making turns down the hill, and all of a sudden, my ski hooked up weird on the tip and i went down. i took a look at my skis, and then it made sense why the tip hooked up weird. it took a few long emails to convince them to even look at my skis. the end result was me paying $50 to replace the one broken ski, so now i have a pair again, but one is brand new and the other has been skied on for half of last season.
 
I can totally relate to sterbenz. imagine how much other shit is going on with him right now, he has tradeshows, dealing with shops, dealing with riders, next years clothing line, next years skis, the new binding systems to work with, looking into new models and testing new shit for 07 08 stuff. not to sound like a dick, but im sure one pair of skis from a random kid isnt high on his list of priorities
 
the ski lost its camber. all skis (except for spatulas, pontoons) have camber. the ski has an arc to it, where if you set it on th ground, the tips will touch the ground, but the middle rises above. what happened (this happened to a friend) is that the the ski essentially broke, and now the tips (or just a tip) like hover above the ground or snow, which makes for whack riding

sorry if that was confusing
 
not LOOSE camber dude. They LOSE their camber, this happened to me and my roommate last year. we both rode msp 187's and we both had camberless skis after a couple months. in essence the ski lost its vitality in and out of turns giving it a sloppier ride.
 
No offense to Sterbenz, I totally respect what he's doing, but, if he can't handle all the shit that comes along, he may need more help. I'm sure he's busy, but his business hinges on skiers. He's not a big company, every customer should take precedence over a trade show. If it's covered under the warranty, you shouldn't have to wait over a month. Not to be a dick, but this is why I haven't bought 4frnts, Armadas, or any other new core ski company's stuff. I can't afford multiple pairs of skis, and can't afford new skis every season. I need durability and a company that backs it's shit up.

Again, I have nothing against the new companies, NOTHING, and if I could afford their stuff I would, but stuff like this pushes me away. I want to support Sterbenz and everything he believes about the way the ski industry should be growing, but right now newschool type skiing is not big enough to blow off customers like this.

I realize this is just one case, but I guarantee you this guy is not the first nor the last.
 
Now I get it, that space between the floor and the the ski under foot that get's lower and lower out to the tips right?

Well in that case my MSP's haven't lost any camber..
 
HAHAHAH, those are some totally thrashed skis, they look sexy. All of mine that thrashed have a special place in my room on the wall.

One thing everyone should know. Companies like Armada, line, 4frnt, ninthward and liberty are smaller (keeping in mind that some of those are of course bigger than the others) in comparison to guys like salomon, rossi etc. So they're usually understaffed and all of them are crazy busy trying to get things/keep things going. Especially now with the trade shows going on, which for everyone is pretty much top priority. Chances are Matt does want to help you but I gaurantee he has 80 other things to do first, it's not that he doesnt value his customers its just that he cant deal with 20 ski warrantees and lose 10 shop deals in the meantime. That goes for every smaller ski company, not just 4frnt.

If you want better customer service, support your fave ski brands and help them grow, be patient, and in years to come when they are stable they'll of course be able to have a better customer service. Am I fan of this, no, is it fair, not really, but is there any way around it, not likely.

(writing an honest letter to someone in the company like you did is probably one of the best things to do if you're having troubles, or call them. Some places don't mind phone calls, it gets things rolling much quicker as well ... or at least puts you more near the top of the list)
 
The thing is, you buy those ski but when it time to get them warrantied, they dont want and they ask you to pay, so u always need to pay (look like they only want cash). Where is the warranty?

bullshittttt
 
Dude thats how warranty works you moron. You are out of a ski for a certain amount of time, some companies hook you up but they by no means have to. Sounds like sterbenez has been pretty reasonable with you and youre just calling him lame and an asshole for no reason.
 
if customers took priority over tradeshows, there would be a significant decrease in the number of retailers carrying 4frnt in the next year. this would make it much more difficult for the skier to get the ski. less revenue for the company, less kids riding the skis, less hype, its all down hill. companies like 4frnt need to keep themselves in the running by getting shops to carry their skis. without that, there would be no skis for this kid to get warrantied.
 
All warrentys are jokes in general, if skis break it's because you skied them, all companys are going to say that, unless it's something that is undenyably a production problem
 
4frnt can have tons of shops carrying their stuff, but if no one is buying it because of the piss-poor customer service, it doesn't matter much now does it. Shops won't keep carrying a brand that doesn't sell.

My point was that if he's this crazy busy, get some help. He has a small company, but if you can't multitask the most basic functions, I think you're in trouble.

AND, if you can't back up your warranty, DON"T offer one.
 
if 4frnt can get into shops, they already make money, regardless if thekids buy out the stock or not. customer service isnt the thing im most concerned with when it comes to buying a new ski though. yea its good, but im usually more concerned with the quality of the ski rather than if the owner of the company is nice to me. 9ward on the other hand is different because they blatantly have no respect for anyone and I will not support a company like that.
 
exactly. i understand this is a busy time of year, but the fact that there is NO ONE who can get me a pair of skis is super lame, specially now that im gonna have to compete this weekend on broke ass skis, which i am very pumped about. as much as i like these skis, i really dont think im gonna ride them next season. i think i will just sell off whatever replacement i get and try to get something goin with a different company, like dynastar or atomic.
 
dont go atomic. as much as you want to believe it, their skis arent good. flex patterns are terrible on the triplets as well as the deviants. maybe next year will be better for them. if youre concerned about warranty issues though, go line or liberty, both incredible with warranties, or so ive heard.
 
Yes, He'll get skis to the shops for a year. But with bad customer service, either less people will buy them, or the shop will get complaints about a warranty the consumer was supposed to have. Either way, shop owners won't like it, and will not continue to carry them. The business world revolves around the end customer, if they don't buy, no one wins.
 
lol it would appear that this shmuck knows what he's talking about when he talks smack, everyone should make sure they listen this guy and not buy from a company that's producing some of the best freestyle skis on the market. Ha, actually, if you buy Ninthward theres a much better chance that you won't actually have to worry about the warranty cause the skis arent a fan of breaking ... food for thought. And as for customer service, Ninthwards in the same situation as I posted above. Low staff that works extra hard times ten to get an amazing product out in the world. If you've had a bad experience other than the drama story posted on NS a hundred times then msg me, i'd be curious to hear it.

As for atomic dynastar, wow, don't go for atomic. Dynastar however is a very nice ski, personally not my fave tho and they definatly have maybe the hugest edge problem legacy of all the ski brands out there ... I'm suprised you're even considering dynastar given the condition of your 4frnt stls ... is it that you think dyna will warranty you faster lol ?
 
hey man, im just saying shit how i see it. i can see where sterbenz is coming from and i think you should be more understanding. in terms of 9ward... i think more people need to stand by what they say and not sway so much. go back to this time last year and see how many people liked 9ward, none, because the team all came on ns and talked shit. now though everyone loves them because they are so cool. im just saying im not going to forget that and im not supporting a company with no ethics because i dont have to. id rather support a company like line that listens to skiers and always puts 110% behind their products. i suppose you forgot when jay was on here for something ridiculous like 3 or 4 hours answering questions from kids on ns. whens the last time anyone from 9ward did that?
 
I'm waiting patiently for my '07 VCTs that they've had ready for three weeks but they litterally have like three employees who work at the office. You used to push 2 for marketing or 3 for sales but they're the same guy! Now it's just #2 I think but the point is yes they are a tiny company that All goes to X-games. They have more skiers than employees.

Armada is the exact same way. Try calling the Armada factory right now and nobody who really knows whats going on is there cuz they're at X.
 
too bad man, i love my stl's and haven't ahd any problems so far, hopefully none in the future
 
Alright...to the kid who started this thread:

First and foremost, if you had gone about this the right way, you'd probably already have a new set of skis in your hands. By that, I mean taking them to your shop, calling in and getting an RA #, and sending them back. In certain cases, shops will overnight the skis, in which case we will do the same for the return.

Now maybe Chris was trying to help you out and take care of it himself, but regardless, going through the shop is the quickest way to get your skis warrantied.

You can't blame Sterbenz for not dropping everything to get your warranty claim in. He is in Europe right now, so it's virtually impossible for him to see this through until he's back in the US. It sounds to me as if Sterbenz was trying to help you out and get around going to the shop at all. Which is why he asked you for pics to be evaluated.

But Sterbenz is not the warranty dept. either. Neither is your rep. The quickest way to go about this is the RIGHT way, just like everyone else does it.

Now I'm sorry you're having problems, but from the sounds of your history with 4FRNT , it seems to me you've been pretty well taken care of thus far. By coming on here and blasting Sterbenz is kind of a slap in the face in my book.

And to 1080spinna, I saw your skis along with your buddies, and that was the furthest thing from a warranty I've ever seen. Your skis had not lost "all" their camber. Yes, they were flatter than a brand new pair, but from what the shop told us, you both had skied them 90+ days. That doesn't constitute a warranty. But as I remember it, we told the shop we'd sell you BOTH a BRAND NEW replacement pair at a ridiculously low price (our cost).

So if you guys want to bitch on NS, go for it, it's not going to get you skis any quicker. In both your cases, to me at least, it seems as though we've tried to go above and beyond what the majority of other companies would've done for you...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top