08 surface skis

soo are you saying you'll have two different kinds of watch-life's available to purchase? the surface watch-lifes available for pre-order on jibij are 350 bucks. maybe we could hear it first hand from you...

i guess my question is, are all of the watch-lifes going to have a full cap construction, or will some have sidewalls and some have a full cap?
 
so the watchlife is now 10 cm fatter and cap construction? And will jibij be lowering their price to $300? What are the dims on the 181 then?

Thanks, can't wait to ski 'em
 
So unfortunate. Made one capped and called it better. Made one softer to call the original "Big Mountain."

So to recap, the Watch Life is now a Price Point Capped Park Ski like a Fujative, and there are now 2 different Live Lifes, a soft pair and a super soft one?

Brilliant move for a company that started off so well. I guess it goes to show that everyone has to make money in this world.
 
Seriously, you work for Sierra, one of the lamest shops out there. And you try to promote like it's anything but that. You really have no right to talk shit about Surface.
 
Horrible statement, it's obvious you have no idea about the current ski market. It's a damn good call by Surface to create an affordable cap park/all mountain ski - it's good for their brand in general. I ski their last year's Watch Life 181cm with sidewall and I was able to ski their cap version of it this spring and it skis the exact same.

It's no different than the new Armada El Rey, Line Invader, K2 Fuj...there are a lot of price point models from each brand. It makes skiing a possibility for people out there who don't have trustfund bank accounts or get proforms from their shop (which obviously you are one of those people who seem to think working at a ski shop makes you superior than the rest of us) to have a great freestyle ski without spending $600.00+

From what I understand, there is a new ski coming from Surface called the Walks of Life, it's a higher end all mountain ski that is about 100mm underfoot. Surface takes their time and does it right, don't get all crazy just because they release a capped, price point ski...

Not to mention, who are you?

Sorry.
 
isnt it also interesting that the majority of snowboards are around this price range as well? 300-400? its a trend that will start to grow in skiing and a positive trend in that
 
If they add 10mm to the watch lifes...

that would suck.

I think 80-90mm is the perfect waist... anything wider becomes a pow ski, some of us still like to carve -.-
 
I haven't worked for or said a word about Sierra since February Asshat. And what is your beef with them anyway?

All I said was that they started out well trying to make a quality product and now they see that the market is in cheap capped price point skis for punkass broke kids like you. So they're making a ski you can afford instead of one that will last me a whole season, something that the Major brands already do. The whole point of being a small independent brand IMO is to capitalize on the fact that Major brands suck by making something a bit pricey but worth every penny.

And as far as the Live Life 2 goes, yes I think it is lame that instead of making a new ski, or a big mountain ski which I'd much prefer, they're using the same mold and building a cheaper softer pair and flogging it as a Lizzy knockoff. Meanwhile they've said nothing of making the regular Live Lifes stiffer.
 
well wasnt the whole reason that they made the watchlife capped is because people were complaining about the the topsheet not because its cheaper? thats a pretty good company to me. they listened to the customer and changed the product
 
I don't think Surface ever claimed that the Live Life was going to be the big mountain ski. In my eyes at least, the Live Life plays the roll of the medium flex powder ski and now the Live Life 2 is coming out at the fat jib ski, which you have to admit, is a big part of our ski culture these days with people liek Pollard influencing us. Surface is a new company, and what you're looking for, a big mountain ski, they haven't brought out yet. Look at Armada, it took them a few years to get the ANT out. ( JP vs Julien is not big mountain, same position as the Live Life.) Give'em a few years buddy. It takes time to make everyone happy, and for the time being, I'm happy with them, and like you, until Surface comes out with a Big Mountain ski, my big ski willl just have to come from another brand.

And I can also see where you're coming from with the Watch Life being price point. Hell, maybe it won't last a season with a hard skier on it, but maybe it will. I'll let you know at the end of next season.
 
livelife2.jpg


i really want to try these things out, they sounds like they'd be a blast in some deep snow
 
hey lets think for one second..why on eart would surface want to put out a cap construction pricepoint ski? (that just happens to rip) it would seem to me the sooner surface has some real money in the bank the sooner we will see the skis we all really want from them! but lets face it just having the super pricey skis just doesent pay the bills!

and as for making the live live 2 the only thing anybody had ever said about the original live life is the ski is amazing i just wish it were softer....here is the answer!

they had MINOR problems with topsheets chipping for the kids doing gnar octo grabs every chance they get...here is there answer!

as for surface making a bigger stiffer charging ski....just wait!
 
Great point. Skiing (in the past) has been way too expensive...I am fired up that Surface, as well as other brand are starting to offer a cheaper alternative. Surface is rad.
 
every single snowboard company has a deck under 350 k2 has a killer board coming next year at 289.....theyre reasoning why pay 500 dollars for something you are going to beat the shit out of and replace next year!

plus if i can buy a 600 dollar dream ski its much easier to come up with another 300 to purchase a park..play ski!
 
What the fuck are you talking about dude? You are not making any sense anymore so scram you fucking tool. As for being a punkass broke kid, maybe I am...but judging by that pathetic photo on your profile, you are just a beater. Nice irish beard.

Nice fucking air dude!

Log off now, thanks!
 
Did he make fun of you? No. He voiced his opinion on something. an actual argument or comversation would be about thirty millions time better than tauntign someone. So try not to make Surface look bad.
 
was that necessary? homie thought he had a legitimate point..he was way off basis and had not a clue what he was talking about!!! but that reply was just plain childish!
 
I can easily ignore the childishness, but I am still waiting for someone to explain how I am off basis.

Do you think that it is a good move for a startup independent brand to co capped and price point instead of maintaining a small niche market with quality sidewalled product?
 
Unfortunatly, you have a point. I'm not sure how this capped construction will affect the ski, I'm hoping for the best. But one guy who posted above me mentioned a different ski, migher quality park/all mountain ski called the Walks of Life? I'd love to hear more about this. But still, seeing as a cheap ski is what I need next season, Watch Life works perfectly for me! (I'm one of those broke ass punks you mentioned before.)
 
well, kind of. there was a problem with the sidewalled product. topsheet chipping. since there were so many complaints about it, this is how they tried to fix it.

also, i don't know if this is what's gonna happen, but some capped topsheets are called "vertical caps" which is basicly your top-quality sandwhich side-walled ski, but with the topsheet completely wrapped around down to the edges. it's the best of both worlds, and ends up reducing weight.
 
I understand where you are coming from, but why pick out a small startup brand to bag on for having a cap ski? Every single ski and snowboard brand in the world has a cap ski/board. It seemed to me that you were just being a dick. Why not bag on the 1080, the Fujative, the MoJo, the Armada El Rey, the Line Invader?

Either way, I guess it's sort of flattering for Surface to be mentioned among these brands, they (Surface) should be stoked to be getting this much recognition. They must be doing something right regardless.

I am done arguing with you though.
 
i think it is the best move they could possibly make...not everybody can afford 500 bucks for a ski..surface catering to that group will bring them a HUGE share of the market bringing in more money to offer a bigger variety of high quality niche skis!

believe it or not smaller ski companys armada line 4frnt libert ninthward surface all struggle to survive maybe this is one way for surface to guarantee they stay around! and in my opinion the more companies out there the broader the selection for you and me the better the indstry will get!
 
im sure the walks of life will become very real very soon!

and my point was made right there!

surface will still be the highest quality availabe and the skis will still kill it!

and to whoever asked about dimensions they will 92mm in the waist and 3 cm longer!
 
First of all, you are "off basis" because the expression you are looking for is "off base," not "off basis." But more importantly, cap skis are not bad. A lot of people, youngins especially, assume that because sidewalls are more expensive and harder to make that they are better. This is not really the case. Caps are cheaper and lighter but they are not necessarily bad skis. Since they are cheaper to make, bad cheap skis get made with caps. So, a lot of people associate caps with these entry level skis. But, it wasn't the cap that made the skis suck. They were price point skis to begin with, so the maker went with the cheaper construction method. Think of all the great skis out there that have had caps, Line Chronics and almost all the 1080's just to name a couple. Anyway, I like the lower weight and saving cash, caps till I die.

 
A couple questions.

1. Was the topsheet chipping leading to delamination, or was it purely a cosmetic issue?

I ask this first because I have never heard of a company giving up sidewall ski production because of durability issues. Often the move from sidewall to capped means a move from hand made to automated, ie a profit based decision and not a quality based one. There are a lot of capped skis out there that kick ass, I'm not bagging on cap in general, I'm simply questioning the motivation behind it.

Assuming that it is a price reduction issue, which I guess I sort of assumed it was to begin with, the next question is...

2. Does it make sense for a small brand to try and produce a much larger volume of skis all of a sudden based on a competitively priced low margin park ski?

I know this sounds cool from an affording it next year standpoint and correlates with what a lot of other Major and Indi brands are doing/have done. But it is risky to put all your eggs in one, or in this case two baskets (2 model skis) and have your mass produced one be that low margin for you and for potential dealers.

3. How much money do you think a store will be able to make off of a $349 Surface Watch Life?

Not very much, hence few stores will pick them up, a problem they already face with so few models and so little exposure.

4. Does it make sense for brands like K2 Line and Armada to make a dirt cheap ski?

Of course, but only because they have established their market share and are already in the stores that will now sell their cheap stuff, mostly big chains and online dirt merchants. If Surface want to compete with the Invader/Fuj etc I'd understand in two years once they are off the ground with more models and street cred. When 4frnt couln't get the STL right it almost took them under. When the Invaders all blew up Line had to sell to K2. Armada was the first startup to ever get so hot so fast and they are just now in their 5th year of production building a ski cheaper than $500.

5. Will the $349 Watch Lifes totally kick ass?

Probably.

6. Could they sell almost as many pairs and better secure their future as a brand selling them for $449?

Probably.

&. How many skis do you think they can afford to make?

As many as they will sell by November is my guess, probably a couple of hundred pair. Small brands don't make it on volume, and nobody makes it as a ski business simply selling to poor kids like us Newschoolers. Armada is making it cuz of their killer business model. Line still exists because they make good powder skis, the Mothership sold to everyone so now do the Prophets. 4Frnt is undoubtedly squeaking by on their powder skis and big mountain skis.

These brands sell cheap skis now hoping that a year or two later you'll buy their badass powder offering. It's like how Sony (and every other game console producer ever besides Nintendo with the Wii)loses a crapload on every PS3 hoping to make it all back in products and services.

And stores routinely make nothing off of bringing in brands like this onto the wall. 4Frnt and Armada still struggle to build in a 30-40% margin on their skis which is killed as soon as sales season starts in late January. Surface probably sells the $349 Watch Life to stores for $200ish, maybe leaving them very little profit. The store then make a little profit assuming it sells out before everything else goes on sale. This isn't a huge money making proposition for anyone nor is it what drives progress for brands or the industry.

K2 sells their $399 Public Enemy to most dealers for less than Surface can sell the $349 Watch Life whilst still making a bundle.

And as far as the extra soft Live Lifes 2 I am a firm believer that the $$ in this business is still in stiffer skis, especially when it comes to boutique indi brands. Look at what everyone else has to keep them afloat: 4Frnt has stiffass MSPs that used to be called Supermodels and are now simply sold as MSPs. Line has the Prophet 90s which are stiff and sold more than probably any other of their profitable skis combined. Armada has the ANTs which rock.

How stiff are the Live Lifes? Would anyone on TGR ski them?

I want as much as anyone on this site for brands like this to succeed and take a chunk out of K2 and Salomons sales. I just know that it cost about $20 to make a Pocket Rocket and over $100 for Surface to make anything skiable, so they have to be very careful who they try and please before actually making it in this rough business. As many of us as are on this site, most of us aren't providing this industry with the capital it lives off of.

I say all of us who can ought to buy ON3Ps for whatever they cost Iggyskier to build, that way we can see what it takes to make quality product let alone eat and pay your bills off of it by putting it into stores.

 
^you guys have to admit, this guy is formulating a real argument here, and not just being argumentative to be annoying.

i don't really have an opinion, but i have to say that i am surprised that a "boutique" brand like surface is making a $350 cap ski.
 
shit dude, chill out. nobody cares if surface isnt totally perfect. they are a cool company with sweet skis thats all that matters.

you think wayyyy too much.
 
WOW!!!! do you really care that much about what little company is doing? leave them alone and get a life!! im not trying to be mean, but seriously, what the fuck?
 
Skimaster makes some great points. My question is, why even sell to retailers? Yes you gain exposure but with that you gain overhead, and though you may sell this year out, if the skis sit on the shelves, they won't be buying next year. Tons of companies have seen huge success on a direct-to-market boutique product. Why? Because they dont have to sell to retailers for cheap. If you want a good business model, go look at AV123.com

Yeah they use chinese labor and have some cheap line products. But their reputation is based in quality, and their biggest sellers are the big-ticket items. You could be so much more successful with just a little more product announcement and interaction with NS.
 
Igneous, Kingswood, DPS, the list goes on for days. Boutique direct order brands don't have to bend to the markets will via lame dealers request. They can make real skis, the way they want. They may only make a couple hundred pair but they sell them out and make a decent margin on every pair.
 
Thanks for the exposure, as well as concern for Surface as a brand.

Everyone has valid points, however, none of you know the intentions that Surface has, nor have seen or discussed our business model, not to mention, have ever dealt with overseas ski/snowboard manufacturers. It's a lot different than what the folks at Igneous (and other similar brands) are doing. Their skis pertain to a small percentage of skiers. Not to sound like an ass, however, 99% of the kids on here could not even handle an Igneous ski, me included. That's fine, that is their program and that is the type of ski that they enjoy building. I am sure they, like Surface, did not get into ski building to get rich. We are all simply trying to bring another perspective to skiing, offer another choice. Skiing has been so uniform, until recently there have been only a few choices and styles to choose from. New brands coming onto the scene make skiing more diverse and attractive, like skating. Each company, has their niche, we all know that. Surface has its own agenda too, new skis, new people, whatever...we are making it happen the only way we know how, that is one step at a time. We are not going anywhere but up, as we have zero debt, amazing people contributing to the brand behind the scenes and finally, not depending on it for a source of income. Each year the brand will grow in the way we want it to grow. Speaking of growth, our quantities have increased for this coming season 600% - like, one of you said earlier, we must be doing something right.

Summer is in the air.

 
So your goal is to get into stores and compete in general ski retail and not be boutique then? It's a hard choice to make, either way good luck.
 
Oh and by the way, 99% of the people on this site can't do 540s off back country cliffs or kickers either.

The way small brands make it in stores is by having a diverse offering and specifically by having a model that bridges the gap between the Newschooler and the Joe average advanced all mountain skier.

The vast majority of the skis sold in the US are in this "advanced" category and most are sold now as a system for $600-750.

Line, Armada, 4Frnt, they all have skis for everyone, not just skis for park skiers and people looking to take park to the side country.

I guess my original point was whether or not it would be better to make a softer version of your already powder specific 112mm waist twin for people who want to land switch in powder, or first make the ski that sounds as though it is in the works as "the walks of life?" That ski sounds like it is the one that will help you break into the retail market the most.
 
Who would have ever thought that Surface would have this much publicity. I remember when Mike has like 10 pairs of Surface skis to last the whole year. Props to them for making their dream happen.

I sense a little jealousy going on in this post.

 
This guy is a nerd and people like him are what make kids choose a snowboard over a pair of skis...I feel like I am reading a textbook when I read this post.

Keep on arguing buddy. You are in fact, much smarter than everyone else.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top