they are both places, actually. Karmas are one of the only twin tips I have never purchased or ridden, but if you are looking for a "park ski" they don't seem to make a lot of sense. They are very stiff whereas most park skis are designed to have a very soft flex for rails, buttering and being forgiving on jumps. However, if you are a big guy, everyone I talk to who has ridden them says they are a fantastic one-ski quiver