You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

J.Braun

J.Braun

Member
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never

failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class. That

class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be

poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on

Obama's plan".

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no

one would fail and no one would receive an A...

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The

students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little

were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied

little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they

wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and

name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the

benefit of anyone else.

All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that

socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the

effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no

one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that.
 
Interesting.....

thinker.jpg

 
the world isnt ready for communism yet. people care more about buying a new car or a bigger house, than caring for fellow members of mankind. we'll get there eventually.
 
But with true communism everyone works to make what everyone needs, and everyone gets the same thing. The communist government wouldn't just let you not do shit you'd get kicked out. So on the test the first couple people who threw the average off would be out of there. It would work just fine.
 
Yea, i've already given up and stopped trying because of the health care bill. everyone around me has ceased to work, as there is no reason for them to continue with their lives. plus, isn't it so gross that poor people get to have insurance? i need the support of o-mighty jesus just to handle the chore of going to collect my welfare checks in the same line as those scumbag poor people. can't they at least separate the black ones so i only have to wait with poor white people who don't have AIDS? it's also SOOOO boring waiting in line for welfare checks, so i've started spending my time inciting violence and terrorizing public figures, mainly cus Sarah Palin gave me the idea. isn't she just so smart? murcah!
 
The (other) point is that there's no incentive for anyone to work hard at anything. How can a society progress when everyone is just doing the bare minimum?
 
Maybe I am just a stupid naive American, but I fail to see why someone would want a government system where janitors get the same wage as brain surgeons.
 
Scientists would be more focused on what matters instead of hair restoration, plastic surgery and diet pills.
 
I interviewed some dudes from china for my english class, they were telling me how much communism sucks, not everyone works to make what they need, they're gonna get it no matter what so they just sit on their ass all day and still get food

although china's not true communism anymore thats how it was

jest throwin it out there...
 
well hes going to extreme socialism there; almost fundamental communism. socialistic programs and and organizations already exist in the states and run successfully in Norway for example. if you actually make the American people get to work and realize life doesnt come on a platter, maybe some more programs would work.

so, what if we made it that one could receive benefits of socialist programs only if they are directly contributing to society ie. having an occupation, trying to earn money. that way those that are trying to move up classes could and we could maintain the high level of social mobility that we see in capitalism. socialism for those who deserve it basically.

sorry please dont tear me apart im drunk as balls right now, i'll try and formulate my point again later.
 
If you're not focusing on "getting what's yours" and profit, maybe you'll even be happy when working, feel proud about what you do because you know you are a part of this society and you're doing meaningful work that benefits everyone? Maybe this bare minimum viewpoint is yours, or your own distrust for your fellow man.
 
what hes getting at is pretty simple.

in our capitalist society:

people that work harder get more money

people that work less get less money

throw in some socialism:

people that work hard dont get more money

people that dont work take money from those that work hard.
 
Unfortunately that is not always the case. Some people work their asses off and never make anything, while some people don't work at all in our capitalist society and get everything they can ever dream of.
 
Really? I don't know any scientists (outside of a couple engineers) who get turned on by industrial processes. The greater scientific community loves nothing more than the abstract and the obscure (case in point: LHC) and are only ever be lured to do useful things because that's where the money is. Otherwise they'd all be off liquifying increasingly difficult to liquify substances and firmly establishing that a duck's quack does echo.
Any communal-wealth system inherently sacrifices differential compensation, the only reliable mechanism by which we get people to do unpleasant things. Not ideal in a system where where most all jobs are unpleasant.
 
guys. seriously? come on. how the fuck can you contextualize the recent health care bill with chinese communism? you guys must've learned your history from texan textbooks.
 
sure, its a generalisation, but its true for the most part.

hard work goes a long ass way towards financial gains.

also, hard work goes hand in hand with good choices.

if, for example, you're living paycheck to paycheck and going to school to get an art degree, i'm sorry, but you deserve to never get ahead.
 
It's not like with the new bill people are just gonna get lazy and not pay for healthcare. If you don't have it you get fined.
 
HAHAHA, so true.
But I do agree with what you say, working hard does have a plethora of benefits. Though there are some cases of the system screwing people over. It's not a perfect system that we have, but it works.
 
I'm sure the art student wouldn't expect to "get ahead" in anything. They'd do it because they love it, and I respect that way more than being whatever you think you have to be.
 
SOOOOOOOOO WRONNNGGGGGGGGGGG

People who work SMART get more money.

How hard you work has much less to do with how much money you make.
 
My parents work their ass off, we live comfortably, but don't have A LOT of money.

Paris Hilton, never worked a day in her life while not on a reality tv show. Filthy fucking rich.
 
Here's another point for discussion. Don't attack me, I'm just proposing something.
Would americans be more likely to donate to charity if the government took less from their paychecks to support the poorly conceived social welfare programs in our country?
I only ask because it seems that charities, typically run by volunteers with the people's best interests in mind, would be much more efficient than (generally) corrupt politicians.
 
Many charities would become corrupt and people would bitch if the government started to regulate it.
 
You are literally the only person who has said anything about the recent health care bill. I don't know where you got that from... He's comparing it to Obama's view on government as a whole (which is wrong, because Obama may be very far left, but he is definitely not pure socialist or communist for that matter).

I think this was a pretty interesting experiment for the prof to do though. Cool beans.
 
You can't live by "fuck bitches, get money" in a communist society. I'm out.

/s-meter/

(on the fuck bitches part, I like capitalism)

 
grades and money are different, people already get welfare cheques and just because ur giving people healthcare who have trouble affording it themseves does not make you socialist
a first world country is a country that can take care of all its citizens shouls america go totally capitalist and make it truly every man for themself money making wise if you cant make money you starve or go homeless? people with disability why should you help them survival of the fittest if we let them a while ago theyd be gone by now if u break ur leg on the job why should anyone compensate you
i dont understand this whole socialist argument america is no where near socialist there is just 300 million people to take care of and remain a first world country money doesnt grow on trees people gotta share
and what the fuck do you need 40 billion dollars for so may people have come to a point in their wealth where they dont even know what to do with it anymore after their fourth house and 15th golf club membership
 
Nice post. I like his idea. That's the problem with socialism/communism. More with communism. No incentive to work harder. Sound good in theory but it just doesn't work out.
 
Maybe I'm misreading you're post. It sounds like you're naively believing that when their is no real incentive to work harder, everyone is still going to work super hard to support their fellow man.

It's not going to happen. on a small scale people have done it successfully but when you're talking about a whole country it's never going to work. The only way to keep people working hard is by force, and then you've completely lost freedom.
 
Yeah not like unions offer awesome internship programs or apprenticeships. God forbid the layman get an earning share.
Why are you even mentioning this? I would love to see you work in an industry where you don't own means of production and not want protection from a union. Collective bargaining is just as much a personal right as skimping on health insurance for employees. I've never seen you complain about something like that...a corporation dropping health benefits? Hmm...
 
Yup, unfortunately that is the typical American education towards anything not labeled capitalism. Same wages are not a part of socialism or communism.
I urge you to look up a labor theory of value system (there's a couple out there) that is more what communism/socialism subscribes to.
 
I disagree. "differential compensation" is not a reliable mechanism. It promotes jealousy, envy, and a class separated world. Relative opportunity in a system should never be the ultimate determination for people's set destination.
With that said, unpleasant jobs are ultimately rewarded by importance. IE, if a garbage man was to not collect the trash things like the cities smelling and plague outbreaks would become compounded issues. Therefore, in terms of a "communal" society the labor urged into that profession is recognized by a fair value system. One in which a set wage is determined, yet the "set wage" is not coming from an overhead capitalist. What I mean by this is that the community benefits from the garbage mans productivity because of his individual labor value. Therefore, he is rewarded with a sense of contributing to the community in which he then receives his share of trading with whomever feeds and treats water for the community. It's a complex system but it works without sacrificing individual freedom like a few people have mentioned in here. With the scientists example, some of the greatest inventors of our time used their drives of curiosity and creativity to come up with beneficial items. These are not necessarily invented for dire reasons of profit. Some have been yes, but others use their sense of individual creativity.
Obviously this is faulty, as are many things I can point out in capitalism. It's important like I say in every thread to not discredit any outsider economic system because your 8th grade text book and dad at the dinner table said we will all be living in white houses with the same clothes and a number tattooed on us. This is not what Marx envisioned for communism and Russia is a horrid example of where it was supposed to go.
 
same concept as stock splits? all people with wealth receive an increase by the same amount leading to no overall change at all
 
Yeah, because adding it all up all and dividing it is all there is to it. That's all there is to economics. 7 years of my life, adding shit up, and dividing it, because that it how the economy works. Nothing more to it. Its simple. Easy.

Theories of collective action, free-rider problems and group coalescence definitely don't all have tens of millions of pages of journals and books, on how to overcome them. Definitely not.

That is a thought experiment, and anyone who thinks it's true or correct is a fucking idiot.
 
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