Wide vs Kartel

c0ntentcreat0r

c0ntentcreat0r

Member
Moving out west so need some wider skis. Looking at Vishnu wides or Kartel 108's. Want a ski with the least possible swing weight. Tell me what u know.
 
13957606:CLQ said:
These skis arent very similar lol
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Lol I know, swing weight is number one priority for me tho, and ski companies never talk about their swing weight the way they do about core material, flex, etc
 
The kartels will be better everywhere except the park. If you go out west and only ski park why even go out west?
 
13957676:Rum_Ham said:
The kartels will be better everywhere except the park. If you go out west and only ski park why even go out west?
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Edit*** Also ill be coaching park so need a ski that can handle pow and park

To escape my family and fuckin party

I'll be skiing everywhere tho lol, just need wider skis with least swing weight possible and durability.

**This post was edited on Nov 5th 2018 at 8:20:33pm
 
13957597:powpatrol said:
Magnus 102?
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They're on the table for sure but im looking for something a lil wider ideally. If the swing weight is significantly less than the kartel/wide though, its preferable.
 
If you're riding all mountain I would prioritize a lot of things over swing weight.

Sounds like the wides would really suck skiing off piste in cut up snow while the kartels are highly praised for their ability in those conditions. No experience on the wides but from vishnus site and others descriptions they seem like a fat, soft, park ski vs the kartel which is supposed to be one of the best all mountain freestyle skis out right now.
 
i imagine the swing weight would be quite similar, and don't think there would be a difference in weight that u would notice. Haven't ridden the wides myself but i imagine they're quite a bit softer than the kartels, and would probably perform better in the park but not as well elsewhere (in comparison to the kartels). Both super durable skis tho, cant really go wrong with either
 
We don't have any Wides left at the moment (they went fast) but I would highly recommend them, obviously. Keep your eyes peeled for a few different reviews coming out in the next couple months confirming the hype.

And to whoever said that they "suck skiing off piste" I would say that literally everyone who has ridden them would disagree. Don't take it from me though...if you see a team member/affiliate with them out on the hill and they have the same size boot as you feel free to pressure them to let you try them out. Tell them Emmett said it was okay.

Okay see ya
 
13957700:VISHNU said:
We don't have any Wides left at the moment (they went fast) but I would highly recommend them, obviously. Keep your eyes peeled for a few different reviews coming out in the next couple months confirming the hype.

And to whoever said that they "suck skiing off piste" I would say that literally everyone who has ridden them would disagree. Don't take it from me though...if you see a team member/affiliate with them out on the hill and they have the same size boot as you feel free to pressure them to let you try them out. Tell them Emmett said it was okay.

Okay see ya
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I highly doubt a center mounted park ski with a soft flex pattern is gonna perform in chopped up/variable snow anywhere near as well as the k108 but ok. Are you suggesting that the wides charge?
 
13957700:VISHNU said:
We don't have any Wides left at the moment (they went fast) but I would highly recommend them, obviously. Keep your eyes peeled for a few different reviews coming out in the next couple months confirming the hype.

And to whoever said that they "suck skiing off piste" I would say that literally everyone who has ridden them would disagree. Don't take it from me though...if you see a team member/affiliate with them out on the hill and they have the same size boot as you feel free to pressure them to let you try them out. Tell them Emmett said it was okay.

Okay see ya
Click to expand...

Can't speak for wides, but i've heard a few complaints about the longevity/durability and flex of the wets as soon as they are outside of the park. I can't comment because i've never had the chance to ride.

That being said, it's a big claim to say that literally everyone who rides our skis off piste thinks they're great. If anything that makes me more inclined to be doubtful of any claims made.

This isn't intended to be a hateful rant towards you guys, and I respect the grind you have all put in the past few years, but whenever I hear vishnu, I always think revision. I hate to make the comparison, but it always seems to come to mind.

Low amount of skis are produced, but they're made in china. Marketing as a core rebellious ski company even though there isn't anything to set you apart besides some popular graphics and a lot of flex (again no hate intended, just an opinion from someone who buys skis). To my knowledge you haven't been around very long as a company, but still make claims like "maneuverability and durability you’ve come to expect from Vishnu".

When I look for skis this is my checklist, in order of importance.

Size/Shape: Vishnu scores well here

Flex Pattern: Seems oriented towards rails and urban

Durability: I've heard some people say that they are bombproof, and an equal part say that they aren't

Price: Not expensive, but not any cheaper than other companies like surface, 4frnt, jskis etc.

Companies Presence: To my knowledge, not huge, but not super "core and underground" either

Innovation: Besides softer flex... no crazy rocker profiles, shapes or other technology

Reviews: Couldn't find any outside of threads on NS

Where they're made: China, which is fine and all, but you've got to make up for that elsewhere

Topsheet: Completely personal opinion, but not my cup of tea.

Production: Not many skis are produced, but they're not made in house either. Guess I can't blame you cuz that's mighty pricey.

So in the end, why should I buy your skis? To me it has always just seemed like another company disguising the "buy them cuz no one else will have them" hypebeast/marketing mentality with "we're a small core company".

No hate intended though. I don't own or know what it's like to own a ski company. These are just the opinions of a consumer and a skier.

/rant
 
13957692:SteezMcGee said:
Anybody got a discount code for ON3P's? I can't afford em with bindings at full price lol
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Anyone know if theyve had a black friday sale in the past? I really want kartels but am in the same boat.
 
13957771:Lonely said:
Can't speak for wides, but i've heard a few complaints about the longevity/durability and flex of the wets as soon as they are outside of the park. I can't comment because i've never had the chance to ride.

That being said, it's a big claim to say that literally everyone who rides our skis off piste thinks they're great. If anything that makes me more inclined to be doubtful of any claims made.

This isn't intended to be a hateful rant towards you guys, and I respect the grind you have all put in the past few years, but whenever I hear vishnu, I always think revision. I hate to make the comparison, but it always seems to come to mind.

Low amount of skis are produced, but they're made in china. Marketing as a core rebellious ski company even though there isn't anything to set you apart besides some popular graphics and a lot of flex (again no hate intended, just an opinion from someone who buys skis). To my knowledge you haven't been around very long as a company, but still make claims like "maneuverability and durability you’ve come to expect from Vishnu".

When I look for skis this is my checklist, in order of importance.

Size/Shape: Vishnu scores well here

Flex Pattern: Seems oriented towards rails and urban

Durability: I've heard some people say that they are bombproof, and an equal part say that they aren't

Price: Not expensive, but not any cheaper than other companies like surface, 4frnt, jskis etc.

Companies Presence: To my knowledge, not huge, but not super "core and underground" either

Innovation: Besides softer flex... no crazy rocker profiles, shapes or other technology

Reviews: Couldn't find any outside of threads on NS

Where they're made: China, which is fine and all, but you've got to make up for that elsewhere

Topsheet: Completely personal opinion, but not my cup of tea.

Production: Not many skis are produced, but they're not made in house either. Guess I can't blame you cuz that's mighty pricey.

So in the end, why should I buy your skis? To me it has always just seemed like another company disguising the "buy them cuz no one else will have them" hypebeast/marketing mentality with "we're a small core company".

No hate intended though. I don't own or know what it's like to own a ski company. These are just the opinions of a consumer and a skier.

/rant
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When I said "everyone who has ridden them," I was referring to our team who rode them during research and development as not many customers have ridden the wides yet since it is November. Though the customer feedback I have gotten thus far has been positive, I should have specified.

I have written this kind of post many times in many threads, but I will give an abridged version:

Our original ski, the Wet, is notably cheaper than the park offerings of all of the companies you listed. Plus, in the summer they are $420 which is a pretty great deal. The Wide is priced about the same as it's competition because we need to make money to stay in business. Again, summer pricing is a hot deal.

As far as performance and the product backing up the "marketing," the vast majority of people that get our skis get at least a full year of park skiing out of them, if not multiple seasons. All skis break, but ours tend to less than others. And when they do, we do our best to work with customers and replace one or both skis in a timely fashion. We have so few complaints that we actually don't have a set warranty in place. We are able to deal with warranty issues on a case by case basis. For full disclosure, we have warrantied around 7 pairs of skis out of the roughly 600 pairs we have sold in the last five years. That's pretty good.

We work hard to provide excellent products at a very affordable price and we take great care of our customers, all out of a living room in Salt Lake. I think people get the impression that Vishnu is bigger than it is. I still run this out of my house. I drove for Uber in my spare time to make ends meet up until like August. I survive on selling clothing items that I buy from the thrift store and print our logos on. It doesn't get much more "core"/anti-corporate than that.

On top of that, we work as a cohesive unit to make a FREE team street video every single year (hundreds of hours of work) because we want to inspire the youth and continue the culture that shaped us as people and as a brand. We also occasionally hold events like movie premieres and rail jams to unite the local scene. Bottom line is, we care a lot, otherwise I wouldn't have typed this all up.

In closing, the Kartel is an excellent ski and so is the Wide. The Kartel is certainly more ski, but the Wide is insanely light and holds its own on a pow day for being a symmetrical park ski. You won't go wrong with either choice, that's for sure.
 
13957795:VISHNU said:
When I said "everyone who has ridden them," I was referring to our team who rode them during research and development as not many customers have ridden the wides yet since it is November. Though the customer feedback I have gotten thus far has been positive, I should have specified.

I have written this kind of post many times in many threads, but I will give an abridged version:

Our original ski, the Wet, is notably cheaper than the park offerings of all of the companies you listed. Plus, in the summer they are $420 which is a pretty great deal. The Wide is priced about the same as it's competition because we need to make money to stay in business. Again, summer pricing is a hot deal.

As far as performance and the product backing up the "marketing," the vast majority of people that get our skis get at least a full year of park skiing out of them, if not multiple seasons. All skis break, but ours tend to less than others. And when they do, we do our best to work with customers and replace one or both skis in a timely fashion. We have so few complaints that we actually don't have a set warranty in place. We are able to deal with warranty issues on a case by case basis. For full disclosure, we have warrantied around 7 pairs of skis out of the roughly 600 pairs we have sold in the last five years. That's pretty good.

We work hard to provide excellent products at a very affordable price and we take great care of our customers, all out of a living room in Salt Lake. I think people get the impression that Vishnu is bigger than it is. I still run this out of my house. I drove for Uber in my spare time to make ends meet up until like August. I survive on selling clothing items that I buy from the thrift store and print our logos on. It doesn't get much more "core"/anti-corporate than that.

On top of that, we work as a cohesive unit to make a FREE team street video every single year (hundreds of hours of work) because we want to inspire the youth and continue the culture that shaped us as people and as a brand. We also occasionally hold events like movie premieres and rail jams to unite the local scene. Bottom line is, we care a lot, otherwise I wouldn't have typed this all up.

In closing, the Kartel is an excellent ski and so is the Wide. The Kartel is certainly more ski, but the Wide is insanely light and holds its own on a pow day for being a symmetrical park ski. You won't go wrong with either choice, that's for sure.
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I appreciate the response. It's good to see a company that is solidly behind their skis.

I just wanted to present my (not necessarily correct) conceptions I had of the company. I'm sure it's tough operating as a small ski company in a post revision environment.

This helped clear up a lot. Hopefully some other people can form some new opinions of you too. Good luck in your endeavors.
 
13957795:VISHNU said:
When I said "everyone who has ridden them," I was referring to our team who rode them during research and development as not many customers have ridden the wides yet since it is November. Though the customer feedback I have gotten thus far has been positive, I should have specified.

In closing, the Kartel is an excellent ski and so is the Wide. The Kartel is certainly more ski, but the Wide is insanely light and holds its own on a pow day for being a symmetrical park ski. You won't go wrong with either choice, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

Thank you for clarifying this. I am not hating on your product I just have very different expectations for off piste performance than what you designed the ski to do and the product videos show. I’m sure they’re a blast in untracked pow.
 
13957771:Lonely said:
Can't speak for wides, but i've heard a few complaints about the longevity/durability and flex of the wets as soon as they are outside of the park. I can't comment because i've never had the chance to ride.

That being said, it's a big claim to say that literally everyone who rides our skis off piste thinks they're great. If anything that makes me more inclined to be doubtful of any claims made.

This isn't intended to be a hateful rant towards you guys, and I respect the grind you have all put in the past few years, but whenever I hear vishnu, I always think revision. I hate to make the comparison, but it always seems to come to mind.

Low amount of skis are produced, but they're made in china. Marketing as a core rebellious ski company even though there isn't anything to set you apart besides some popular graphics and a lot of flex (again no hate intended, just an opinion from someone who buys skis). To my knowledge you haven't been around very long as a company, but still make claims like "maneuverability and durability you’ve come to expect from Vishnu".

When I look for skis this is my checklist, in order of importance.

Size/Shape: Vishnu scores well here

Flex Pattern: Seems oriented towards rails and urban

Durability: I've heard some people say that they are bombproof, and an equal part say that they aren't

Price: Not expensive, but not any cheaper than other companies like surface, 4frnt, jskis etc.

Companies Presence: To my knowledge, not huge, but not super "core and underground" either

Innovation: Besides softer flex... no crazy rocker profiles, shapes or other technology

Reviews: Couldn't find any outside of threads on NS

Where they're made: China, which is fine and all, but you've got to make up for that elsewhere

Topsheet: Completely personal opinion, but not my cup of tea.

Production: Not many skis are produced, but they're not made in house either. Guess I can't blame you cuz that's mighty pricey.

So in the end, why should I buy your skis? To me it has always just seemed like another company disguising the "buy them cuz no one else will have them" hypebeast/marketing mentality with "we're a small core company".

No hate intended though. I don't own or know what it's like to own a ski company. These are just the opinions of a consumer and a skier.

/rant
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I think the wets have a pretty unique shape, I can't think of another ski that has as much rocker while still being pretty skinny underfoot and the flex pattern is wild. Revisions seemed to have unanimously bad reviews in terms of durability and they had a pretty traditional shape. Vishnu will also send you your skis lol
 
13957771:Lonely said:
Can't speak for wides, but i've heard a few complaints about the longevity/durability and flex of the wets as soon as they are outside of the park. I can't comment because i've never had the chance to ride.

That being said, it's a big claim to say that literally everyone who rides our skis off piste thinks they're great. If anything that makes me more inclined to be doubtful of any claims made.

This isn't intended to be a hateful rant towards you guys, and I respect the grind you have all put in the past few years, but whenever I hear vishnu, I always think revision. I hate to make the comparison, but it always seems to come to mind.

Low amount of skis are produced, but they're made in china. Marketing as a core rebellious ski company even though there isn't anything to set you apart besides some popular graphics and a lot of flex (again no hate intended, just an opinion from someone who buys skis). To my knowledge you haven't been around very long as a company, but still make claims like "maneuverability and durability you’ve come to expect from Vishnu".

When I look for skis this is my checklist, in order of importance.

Size/Shape: Vishnu scores well here

Flex Pattern: Seems oriented towards rails and urban

Durability: I've heard some people say that they are bombproof, and an equal part say that they aren't

Price: Not expensive, but not any cheaper than other companies like surface, 4frnt, jskis etc.

Companies Presence: To my knowledge, not huge, but not super "core and underground" either

Innovation: Besides softer flex... no crazy rocker profiles, shapes or other technology

Reviews: Couldn't find any outside of threads on NS

Where they're made: China, which is fine and all, but you've got to make up for that elsewhere

Topsheet: Completely personal opinion, but not my cup of tea.

Production: Not many skis are produced, but they're not made in house either. Guess I can't blame you cuz that's mighty pricey.

So in the end, why should I buy your skis? To me it has always just seemed like another company disguising the "buy them cuz no one else will have them" hypebeast/marketing mentality with "we're a small core company".

No hate intended though. I don't own or know what it's like to own a ski company. These are just the opinions of a consumer and a skier.

/rant
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Thank you for asking these questions. Emmett's answer, hopefully, cleared up unknowns, but I'm glad people voice their concern and are willing to listen to a reply.
 
13957795:VISHNU said:
For full disclosure, we have warrantied around 7 pairs of skis out of the roughly 600 pairs we have sold in the last five years. That's pretty good.
Click to expand...

That is pretty good. I'd also love to see a more directional (read: not symmetrical, like -5 mount) all mountain ski from you guys in the coming years.
 
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