Why is Michael Brown dead and we are still alive?
- Thread starter Mr.Huck
- Start date
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13240311:loganschnur said:
You are dumb. Gaylord.
Anathema
Active member
13240140:El_Barto. said:
think about whether or not you want to go down that path.
you think that by having a weapon, you're guaranteeing your safety? maybe you put the other person in defensive mode and as soon as you pull that piece it gets turned on you so fast that you don't even have time to realize that you were too much of a pussy to just take the punch instead of getting your head blown off.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13240357:El_Barto. said:
How so? If you justify shooting and killing someone because they hit you, you have some more serious underlying issues...
El_Barto.
Active member
13240378:Granite_State said:
missed the boat on that one dumbo.
What both of you guys are missing is that while a punch is not a big deal by itself its what it means and what it can lead to. One punch can mean two punches. Two punches can mean a kick to the head. A kick to the head can kill you. I will not start shit with anyone so why the fuck would anyone want to punch me? Ive been carrying for years and havent shot anyone so i think im doing something right.
Anyone who wants to punch me has bad intentions. If you try and start shit with me and i think my life is in danger i will kill you. dont want to get shot? Dont start shit with people.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13240394:El_Barto. said:
Not really...
So we just went from "don't want to get shot, don't punch people" to "don't want to get shot, don't fuck with people". You're going backwards broseph.
And you say "one punch could mean two, two could mean a kick to the head" So now are you saying you'd shoot someone purely based on speculation? "Oh I fear for my life and assume this person wants to kill me, might as well shoot them first" Questionable logic on that one...
Finally, there are thousands and thousands of reasons why one person would want to punch another, that absolutely doesn't mean that person wants to kill the other.
And if you think even a couple punches means your life is in danger, lock your doors, stockpile some food, and stay in your house because you sound very, very soft.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13240415:El_Barto. said:
For someone so old you are pretty damn immature.
I also love posts like this, total cop out.
JAHpow
Active member
13240375:Anathema said:
This is a stupid argument. Any person that carries knows that when you draw you back away so that the other person can't do that. If you don't know how to properly use a firearm in a confrontation then don't carry.
The biggest deterrent from being assaulted is producing a firearm. That doesn't mean you have to shoot the other guy right away or at all, but if the guy is dumb enough to contend with a person carrying a sidearm then so be it.
There's nothing pussy about it. And a person carrying isn't carrying for just their own safety but for the safety of others as well. If they see something going down that will endanger the lives of others, they have a much heavier force with them to deter it.
PeppermillReno
Active member
13240375:Anathema said:
And option 3 is to take the punch and then shoot the guy in the back right when he gets off you and claim it was self defense and end whoever wanted to give you a beating. /You wanna kick my ass...ok pal I'll let you but after your finished Im gonna pull and I'll see ya in hell.' Tell me how you can make someone pay and get revenge on them for giving you a beating if you don't have a weapon and they just kicked your ass?
The gun makes him feel safer even if he actually isn't in your eyes. Theres value in that to him if not to you.
This really isn't a black and white issue and again Im not very pro gun.
Im from MA and not that into guns but I almost bought a 2 family house in a really really sketchy location. I actually ended up in a rougher town reputation-wise (Lynn and not Salem) but on a nice street as opposed to a really shitty block where you'll see people outside chilling 24/7. Don't feel the neeed for a gun where I am but if I lived in a shitty part of Lynn or in the point in Salem where I almost moved like a dumbass I would 100% own a guy particularly because I wouldn't want to feel intimidated if I saw young hoodlums chilling outside my house with nothing better to do and grilling me. The only way I could handle a group of 5 youths hanging out on the street outside my house while I parked and went inside and wasn't intimidated or nothing would be if I had some serious heat inside in case anyonee wanted to break in. No gun and I'd shit myself. Even a huge pitbull wouldn't have been enough if I lived there so if somewhere is bad enough that a 6-5 dude wouldn't feeel safe with a pitbull well then I am definitely justified getting a firearm.
(Ive driven by the place I almost moved a lot since and while its really not that bad I would be crossing paths with a lot of sketchy people and there would probably be 3-4 16 year old punks hanging out on the street one or two houses down from me at all hours of the day on that corner.) Again if I lived there I would absolutely buy a gun but I make do in Lynn MA fine without one.
El_Barto.
Active member
13240444:Granite_State said:
why would i try and have a conversation with somebody who both disagrees with my perspective and then attacks my position and calls me a pussy or whatever the fuck you called me.
you dont like to carry a gun. Cool, i guess you think that makes you tougher than me somehow. I dont get it but you can think whatever it is you damn well please and I wont try and change that. Let me be me and you be you. I said what i would do in a given situation and you ran with it like a bat out of hell.
go on, tell me who is the immature one again.
PeppermillReno
Active member
13240667:El_Barto. said:
I agree totally. Im someone who knows I will only own a gun for need if I live in a shitty area and feel scared. If I wanted to kill someone the last thing I would use is a registered firearm though.
I'd own a gun if I lived somewhere rural where I could shoot at least it within a 5-10 drive. Or if you could bring them across state lines easily. Or if I had thousands of dollars laying around to spend on something that probably wouldn't get used more than once a year at a range and hopefully never for real. Id say its 50-50 whether I ever own a gun the rest of my life right now. I don't want the right taken from me.
k-rob
Active member
i'm still alive because I don't live in America and the KKK and the NRA aren't deciding what the law is or is not. I've been beaten, tazed, had my head stomped on, etc., but never shot, because only a fuckin idiot cop would shoot an unarmed citizen, and also i'm not native or homeless, and i live on the wealthy side of town, so there's probably like a 3 percent chance a cop will pull a firearm on me around here. also i'm half white.
LiquorLanch
Active member
13240570:Phil-X- said:
He's a bit of both, and for some reason this post of his has truth in it. Lynn and Salem are both pretty shitty places.
seanahue.
Active member
Michael Brown is dead because Wilson shot his weapon with the 100% intention of killing him.
I personally believe race was a factor, but trying to explain socioeconomic injustice to NS is about as effective as Jesse Jackson at a Klan rally.
So let's take race completely out of the equation for a second then, and only look at the facts: 2 shots landed at close-range during the 'struggle' for the weapon. 4 more landed when Brown was either fleeing the scene, or charging back toward the officer; the story is disputed.
Charging or fleeing, either way it doesn't really matter, because AFTER the struggle, two of those medium/long-range shots were IN THE HEAD.
A trained marksman entrusted to protect citizens simply does not make that kind of 'mistake' once, let alone twice. Yes, the kid burglarized a store. Yes, he assaulted an officer. That still isn't justification for what amounts to an execution.
He could have shot him anywhere else and the 'threat' he felt for his life would have been neutralized. Two in the kneecaps, one in the dick, and one for each testicle for all I care. But no, instead he chose to put two in his skull, and that is what makes it a murder; second-degree most likely, or at the very least voluntary manslaughter.
It blows my mind that the majority of people on here actually think that assaulting an officer (or anyone for that matter) automatically qualifies you for an immediate death-sentence. What the fuck is law-enforcement for then? With that mentality, fuck it, who needs cops. Let's all run around with our concealed-and-carry and blow each other's brains out in the street, because on every corner there might be a threat!
All this 'kill-or-be-killed' nonsense I see in here is a bunch of bullshit. You guys watch too much Walking Dead.
I personally believe race was a factor, but trying to explain socioeconomic injustice to NS is about as effective as Jesse Jackson at a Klan rally.
So let's take race completely out of the equation for a second then, and only look at the facts: 2 shots landed at close-range during the 'struggle' for the weapon. 4 more landed when Brown was either fleeing the scene, or charging back toward the officer; the story is disputed.
Charging or fleeing, either way it doesn't really matter, because AFTER the struggle, two of those medium/long-range shots were IN THE HEAD.
A trained marksman entrusted to protect citizens simply does not make that kind of 'mistake' once, let alone twice. Yes, the kid burglarized a store. Yes, he assaulted an officer. That still isn't justification for what amounts to an execution.
He could have shot him anywhere else and the 'threat' he felt for his life would have been neutralized. Two in the kneecaps, one in the dick, and one for each testicle for all I care. But no, instead he chose to put two in his skull, and that is what makes it a murder; second-degree most likely, or at the very least voluntary manslaughter.
It blows my mind that the majority of people on here actually think that assaulting an officer (or anyone for that matter) automatically qualifies you for an immediate death-sentence. What the fuck is law-enforcement for then? With that mentality, fuck it, who needs cops. Let's all run around with our concealed-and-carry and blow each other's brains out in the street, because on every corner there might be a threat!
All this 'kill-or-be-killed' nonsense I see in here is a bunch of bullshit. You guys watch too much Walking Dead.
louie.mirags
Active member
A lot of us were raised in houses where we were taught to respect authority. Also, a lot of us grew up in decent neighborhoods where cops did not assume that everybody is a thug. The crime rates were probably low to average and the police did not intervene in our lives very often. However, Michael Brown most likely grew up in neighborhood that despises cops, gets hated on by cops, and listens to music that states to kill cops.
Yeah so Brown robbed a store. Not death penalty status. But, when he gets questioned by a cop he goes back to what he knows. He has been taught to not respect cops and they are out to get him. So he fights him as if the cop is just any other person. In some ways the cop is just a normal person. So the cops fights back too. Both parties doing what they were taught to do.
tl;dr Brown was not raised to respect authority. Actually he most likely influenced to hate cops. Most of us, including me, were taught to respect authority.
Yeah so Brown robbed a store. Not death penalty status. But, when he gets questioned by a cop he goes back to what he knows. He has been taught to not respect cops and they are out to get him. So he fights him as if the cop is just any other person. In some ways the cop is just a normal person. So the cops fights back too. Both parties doing what they were taught to do.
tl;dr Brown was not raised to respect authority. Actually he most likely influenced to hate cops. Most of us, including me, were taught to respect authority.
plyswthsqrrls
Member
13240750:seanahue. said:
You are aware cops are not allowed to shoot someone with the intention of wounding them? If they're firing their weapon, it has to be with the intention to completely immobilize their target (kill them). That's not a choice, that's their job.
Independent autopsy reports released yesterday actually proved that Michael Brown was NOT fleeing the scene as he wasn't shot in the back, and that he did not have his hands raised as if surrendering. He was charging back at Wilson, and Wilson had to immobilize the threat (which he clearly was).
The fact that you don't understand basic police procedure but you decide to preach about it boggles my mind. If you can honestly tell me having a 6'5" 300lb man throw punches and try to take your gun away from you wouldn't make you fear for your life, then shit man you must be Rambo
louie.mirags
Active member
13240867:plyswthsqrrls said:
they are trained to hit center mass. Not head was the dude's point.
.Hugo.
Active member
13240874:louie.mirags said:
Anyone who shoots guns knows that the easiest place to miss is high. He was probably aiming center of mass and just missed. He could have shot thousands of rounds at a range and be a good shot at still targets, but that does not prepare you for a dangerous person charging at you. Wilsons adrenaline was probably through the roof. Also if youve ever shot a handgun you know that it is not easy to be extremely accurate with them, especially on a moving target.
louie.mirags
Active member
13240880:.Hugo. said:
I 100% agree... I was just clarifying what the other guy meant in response to the other guys post. I have shot weapons before and under pressure and your adrenaline running it is not easy...
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13240667:El_Barto. said:
Thats what "discussions" on this site typically are, two opposing sides not giving an inch. I'd like to think you've been on here enough to realize that....I guess not? I called you soft, not a pussy, which I 100% think you are. You justify an assault as a reason to end someone's life, to me thats insane/cowardly. You called my opinion stupid because I basically value human life a little higher than you do. I don't carry a gun not because I don't like to, because I don't see the necessity. You do, I don't have a problem with that, everyone has a right to carry a firearm (for the most part).
13240750:seanahue. said:
Yeah but it must be hard for a privileged white kid growing up in a safe, quiet neighborhood to grasp that...
Though I agree with most of your stance this one portion is wrong. Once an officer draws and fires his weapon, he is going for the kill. Wounding a suspect is not an option for a variety of reasons, mainly because of lawsuits that can be brought up against the precinct.
This so much. That's like the main point I'm trying to make. Killing someone is the most "ultimate" and final thing you could do. You should only do it when absolutely necessary and sorry I believe that even if you get your ass beat to the curb its still not justification for ending someones life. I'd much rather see that person rot in jail.
13240807:louie.mirags said:
13240874:louie.mirags said:
Though is holds so damn true, most of the kids on this site seem to not be able to grasp this. I actually remember a post from earlier in the ferguson thread where someone said they should pull themselves up and make a better life for themselves and I laughed out loud at how this kid thought it was that easy. And its so easy for the majority of this site to have that view because they've never lived in an area where they are constantly being profiled and set up to fail. Oh well I guess some of the members on this site will continue to live under their dome of ignorance.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
Oops meant to quote these:
13240667:El_Barto. said:
13240807:louie.mirags said:
El_Barto.
Active member
You dont want to have a duscussion. You want to tell me why you are right and why i am wrong. The only people i want to discuss guns with are guys like Hugo, jahpow and cobra. You and i would just go in circles and it would be pointless.
I also only read the first like 5 words of your post lol
I also only read the first like 5 words of your post lol
Mr.Huck
Active member
13240880:.Hugo. said:
Also, after getting punched in the face, your accuracy isn't going to be what it normally is. I don't think there is anyway he was going for a head shot and pulled it off.
Getting back to topic though, I just can't understand this kamikaze mentality, where you have been shot, you are still unarmed and you still rush at the armed cop. I just can't understand who would think this is a good idea.
louie.mirags
Active member
13240940:Mr.Huck said:
He was raised to hate cops. The music he most likely listens to says to hate and kill cops. Refer to my post a few up on why I honestly think he is just a product of his environment
kenevil
Active member
13240968:louie.mirags said:
Ahahaha and how many white kids listen to the same music? How many NS'ers have edits posted to music with those sentiments? You seriously think this? Damn son. I grew up on Wu-Tang, guess that means I'm more likely to hate the police and want to kill cops.
Anathema
Active member
13240449:JAHpow said:
this is El_Barto we're talking about. some random dumbass kid with an idiot mentality. you think he knows how to use a weapon?
think before you type.
there are a lot of people that use weapons don't properly know how to use them. that's who we want guns out of the hands of.
you can't rationalize that everyone knows how to perfectly, and safely operate a weapon as the basis for your argument, and then go ahead and claim that someone else who proposes a very possible and viable outcome in regarding gun use has a stupid argument.
what are you, fucking 15?
Anathema
Active member
by the way this whole discussion is irrelevant. we're talking about US police officers. who will shoot 9 innocent bystanders in a pathetic attempt to take down 1 criminal. who will shoot and kill a 12 year old kid without question for playing with a cap gun. who will shoot and kill a mentally ill woman in a car with a fucking child inside before they even know what the hell is going on.
the problem is the USA, and how it raises it's fucking citizens.
you guys all claim that guns don't kill people, people do. you are absolutely right. american people are the problem. how do we fix them? can they be fixed?
the problem is the USA, and how it raises it's fucking citizens.
you guys all claim that guns don't kill people, people do. you are absolutely right. american people are the problem. how do we fix them? can they be fixed?
El_Barto.
Active member
13241368:Anathema said:
im 26, in chiropractic school and have carried almost daily since I was 21. im not gonna justify or validate myself anymore than that. If you wanna have a serious conversation to understand better who I am, what I stand for and where I am in life you can PM me. lol at calling me a kid...you got me
k-rob
Active member
13240968:louie.mirags said:
i honestly think you're just a product of your environment. most likely you were raised to adore and congratulate the police force for their actions.
given that an unarmed black person is killed every 28 hours by american cops, that america is largest prison state in human history and black people make up a large percentage of that unbelievably disproportionate prison population, given that black men spend years in jail for crimes they never committed, given that a tiny black boy with a toy gun can be shot in a state where real guns are allowed to be carried in public, and a number of other reasons i could literally go on forever because it happens every single day, i see absolutely no reason for any black person in america not to fear (and with fear comes hate) the police.
this boys environment is one in which he was murdered for playing with a toy gun. his dead body is a product of this environment. the environment of america, for a black child, is not safe.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13241373:Anathema said:
I have hundreds of examples in video form of cops doing fucked up shit like this. But before the hardos in here take me out of context, I have a tremendous amount of respect for officers who put their safety on the line to protect us citizens but damn, there are so many examples of them abusing their power and fucking up it sometimes makes me wonder how much training these dudes actually have.
13241380:El_Barto. said:
Its funny watching someone whose known on this site for constantly making childish posts finally get so serious to the point where he's willing to have a conversation with another member just to prove himself. Talk about lol.
Anathema
Active member
13241380:El_Barto. said:
(sake of the argument.... shhhhhh...)
the point stands. im presenting a possible outcome to oppose the belief that guns = guaranteed protection, which anyone with half a brain knows isn't true. you have it cause it makes you feel good. safe. whatever.
it's not because it protects anyone. you like em, so you rationalize having them and your whole 2nd amendment bullshit argument (which was written for muskets and forming militias against tyrannical goverments any way) is just an excuse to not have them taken away.
just admit it. you want the power to decide what to do, it's fun, it's cool, you enjoy guns, you have an inferiority complex and have developed a defense-mechanism in which you feel secure, etc.
no one has ever acted in violence toward you, ever, you wouldn't protect yourself in any other way, it's the gun. you like the gun. you aren't fooling anyone.
just sucks that your culture is so batshit fucked up because of this whole "i like them, so fuck you" mentality.
and even more so as you're going into health care to what, help treat and educate the public as a guy who is decidedly scared of it? ironic.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13241385:k-rob said:
My post from last page:
African Americans make up just about 50% of the total prison population in America and are incarcerated nearly 6 times more than white people.
Here's some more racial disparities:
About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug.
5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites.
African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months).
If you don't think our judicial system is at least slightly biased towards whites than bitch you be trippin.
Mr.Huck
Active member
13240707:k-rob said:
K-rob, I don't know where you are getting your info, but the only people who like the KKK in the U.S. are the KKK, and maybe a few neo zazi skin head groups. Our local Elks Lodge probably has more influence on Politics than the KKK now.
13240968:louie.mirags said:
Both of you posts were spot on. I agree with you, and I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. I think the fear of cops is completely irrational, but the fact that people fear them so much makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. If you live with the belief that cops are evil, and you are ultimately have a bad encounter with them and get shot, it is more likely to actually happen.
k-rob
Active member
13241428:Mr.Huck said:
well the number of Ferguson cops who are in the KKK, and the KKK have practically claimed responsibility for the way this entire thing has gone, and KKK members have been photographed vandalizing in Ferguson and inciting the police, idk i think there might just be a connection, i'm no detective though
Anathema
Active member
13241428:Mr.Huck said:
what about that other cute little self-fulfilling prophecy that all racial minorities are up to no good so lets go into situations all wired up and edgy, waiting for any excuse to kill.
god forbid we hold police to a higher standard than gang members, right? good logic. good, bro.
Mr.Huck
Active member
13241434:k-rob said:
I just did a quick google search and found a bunch of things about "Anonymous" exposing KKK. I don't know anything about Anonymous. St. Louis Mo. is not the deep South, so if the KKK is making a comeback in Missouri, that would bizarre, and I'd like to know why. The KKK was basically a joke for about the last 20 years.
13241435:Anathema said:
If all or the majority of cops were assuming that ever person of a racial minority was up to no good, it seems like shooting incidents would be a 10 a day occurrence in every major city. I think the overwhelming majority of cops are professional about the way they do their job. Sure they may be some nuts.
JAHpow
Active member
13241368:Anathema said:
No, that was a stupid argument. We're talking about carrying. You have to have a permit to carry. Do you even know what goes into getting a permit? A training program. It's not, "I own a gun so I can carry." There's a whole training, processing and evaluation program that you have to go through. And in that training you're taught what to do in different situations.
Please think or do some research before you type.
Now there are many people who don't know how to properly handle a firearm and I agree shouldn't carry. If you had seen a post of mine in the rant about whatever thread you would have seen that I think people that don't care about safety should not own a firearm.
And you make dumb shit posts yourself on here too, we all do at times. Don't be so ignorant to think that the person you're exposed to on here is the same in real life.
13241637:roddy116 said:
Personally I think it's at least partially about race, but I would be very curious to see crime statistics of white and black men who are in the same socio economic bracket, and also a comparison of the rate of being incarcerated for people who've committed the same crime, but come from different socio economic backgrounds.
There are so many different factors that it's hard to know when there is or is not bigotry at play. For example, had Brown been a woman and not a man, would he have been shot? If he was 30 years older, would he have been shot? If he wasn't so big, would he have been shot? Who knows, but I'm guessing the combination of his gender, age, and size contributed just as much, if not more, to him being shot as his race did.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13241732:Watts said:
You forgot, if he was white, asian, or hispanic would he have been shot?
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13241791:roddy116 said:
Its cool you feel that way but sorry to burst your bubble but that doesnt make it definitive.
13241774:Granite_State said:
I didn't forget. My point was that there were probably more factors than just race that contributed to him being shot. Being attacked by a woman is very different from being attacked by a man. Being attacked by someone in their 50's is a lot different from being attacked by an 18 year old. Being attacked by someone who is 5'10 and 160 pounds is a lot different from being attacked by someone who is 6'4 and 300 pounds. I've never been hit by an 18 year old, 6'4, 300 pound man before, but I imagine it's just as scary if that person is white as it is if he is black. Not saying race wasn't a factor, but there are a lot of other factors that are easily measurable that people don't/aren't talking about.
k-rob
Active member
newschoolers still gets the bulk of its news straight from the government. Cool guys. Anyways mike browns friend was shot dead and his body was burned the night that we found out there will be no indictment (not that we could expect there to be, because every time this has happened in Missouri theres never been an indictment). These are public lynchings made to remind a generation of young black americans that they have no power, that the police will not protect them, and that they will never be equal. It's no accident that the police are militarizing to extents that alarm the actual military.