What resorts has Vail and Alterra Mountain Company ruined most

[PsychicMigration]

This is somewhat a sad thread but genuinely what resorts do we thing went to shit the most. I've heard Wildcat and Snow for the east coast have been absolutely ruined, but I don't have 125$ a day to verify first hand. Although killington is really corporate they still have a sense of community at least especially in the spring. Been more upset about this issue lately then in the past. I know this may not be productive but it seems like some real gems of skiing are getting lost for good. Any thoughts? looking for genuine opinions and what people think and what will happen in the future.

 

[BingPow]

Stowe. Used to have a sick park, now i only hear horror stories.

 

[eheath]

The IKON pass 100% ruined solitude, it was the best kept secret in the wasatch.

PC has barely changed since Vail, one less park and thats about it.

 

[a_burger]

Have heard attitash and crotched also went to shit

 

[Professor-Modelo]

keystone and breck

 

[PsychicMigration]

Have heard attitash and crotched also went to shit

Those I went to prior to the buy out. Attitash was really fun classic New England skiing and very affordable. Crotched got rid of the park lift and they stopped midnight madness which was like the thing it was known for. I looked at a ticket this year and wildcat/attitash were 110$ I think I paid 35$ in january for college week and regular rate may have been like 75$ (2020?).

 

[PsychicMigration]

keystone and breck

Elaborate, I've been thinking of going out west and trying to weed out places there good and went downhill.

 

[PsychicMigration]

Stowe. Used to have a sick park, now i only hear horror stories.

Went to Stowe last in 2017 and the park was well set up flowed nice and had tons of variety and you could go back and fourth across them with ease havent been since cant afford it.

 

[eheath]

Elaborate, I've been thinking of going out west and trying to weed out places there good and went downhill.

Well Keystone and Breck shouldn't really be anywhere near the top of your list, they are crowded as fuck, far as fuck from a city and have pretty flat/average terrain compared to most resorts in the west. They are only popular on NS because of their parks and the only thing that has changed in 15 years at breck and key are less parks and more people.

 

[Professor-Modelo]

Elaborate, I've been thinking of going out west and trying to weed out places there good and went downhill.

they both turned even more into disneyland the past 5 years. there are a fuck ton of people and the lines suck. Freeway is no more, and a51 is nothing compared to what it was just 5-6 years ago.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Bird gets pretty trafficked on pow days now but Jackson got fucked up when it was just on the base pass.

 

[PsychicMigration]

Well Keystone and Breck shouldn't really be anywhere near the top of your list, they are crowded as fuck, far as fuck from a city and have pretty flat/average terrain compared to most resorts in the west. They are only popular on NS because of their parks and the only thing that has changed in 15 years at breck and key are less parks and more people.

If you were an east coaster that’s primarily going for solid retain and spend like 10% of the time in a park we’re would you go. I was thinking somewhere Lake Tahoe but also want to visit kicking horse Canadian Rockies area. Even Colorado any of those big key places.

 

[d5r]

Wildcat was absolutely ass vibes the last 3 times I made it there last year, haven’t been yet this season though.

 

[eheath]

If you were an east coaster that’s primarily going for solid retain and spend like 10% of the time in a park we’re would you go. I was thinking somewhere Lake Tahoe but also want to visit kicking horse Canadian Rockies area. Even Colorado any of those big key places.

I would skip Colorado completely, it gets hyped up but it's actually one of the worst places to ski in the west. Utah, Idaho, Nevada/Cali, Montana, Wyoming, PNW are all better.

Most resorts will be busy and my best advice would be to chase snow, otherwise just pick a place and go, hard to go wrong with most skiing in the west.

 

[ajbski]

everyone is gonna hate me for this:

lake louise actually got BETTER since the Alterra take over of ski big 3. they put in two new lifts in the places that were lacking the most and opened new terrain that was out of bounds before.

blue mountain legit stopped scanning/checking passes since IKON. my buddies without a pass ride for free now.

there are as many people in all of canada as there are in just california. you guys are just living in the wrong country to benefit from the alterra take over.

 

[Chubz.]

inb4 weastcoast & maimhelp bring up springs/bigboulder

 

[PsychicMigration]

I would skip Colorado completely, it gets hyped up but it's actually one of the worst places to ski in the west. Utah, Idaho, Nevada/Cali, Montana, Wyoming, PNW are all better.

Most resorts will be busy and my best advice would be to chase snow, otherwise just pick a place and go, hard to go wrong with most skiing in the west.

Appreciate the advice.

 

[tutipups]

wait alterra from subnautica is a company irl tf

 

[whatsamonad]

The IKON pass 100% ruined solitude, it was the best kept secret in the wasatch.

PC has barely changed since Vail, one less park and thats about it.

Bro Solitude is on Ikon now?

Fuck man that was my go to hidden Utah gem… sad to hear that

 

[eheath]

Bro Solitude is on Ikon now?

Fuck man that was my go to hidden Utah gem… sad to hear that

Yeah it has been since the IKON pass came out, I was skiing solitude before IKON came in and it was so mellow, the next year it was overrun by people it was insane, the next year they added the paid parking, been downhill since.

 

[extravert]

There is ruining in terms of big crowds and different types of skiers, like what I've seen happen at Jackson and Alta. Then there is actually ruining like Vail deciding that Stevens Pass is B tier and not worth paying people to run lifts. The season there started with only a couple lifts running and ski patrol had to man the lifts.

 

[PsychicMigration]

Have places implemented seasonal parking passes? I know mount snow has began to charge for a bunch of lots but there's still free options available. It's not common in the east but I'm afraid it will be.

 

[whatsamonad]

Have places implemented seasonal parking passes? I know mount snow has began to charge for a bunch of lots but there's still free options available. It's not common in the east but I'm afraid it will be.

That’s pretty fucked up… never been to a mountain that requires paid parking besides Killington during Covid (no longer a thing since they stopped requiring parking reservations).

 

[PsychicMigration]

That’s pretty fucked up… never been to a mountain that requires paid parking besides Killington during Covid (no longer a thing since they stopped requiring parking reservations).

I went during covid and they required reservations but not a fee.

 

[SFBv420.0]

Yeah it has been since the IKON pass came out, I was skiing solitude before IKON came in and it was so mellow, the next year it was overrun by people it was insane, the next year they added the paid parking, been downhill since.

im pretty sure your fat ass would still needs to git up fantasy ridge to ski downhill it

thankfully you and the ikon gapers cant hang in that terrain and are no goes

and park city still sucks

im still enjoying sillytude even though its changed during those 25 seasons

 

[PacificRimJob]

wait alterra from subnautica is a company irl tf

This is where they started out... subnautica is future real.

 

[PacificRimJob]

ima go ahead and say Stevens Pass has probably had one of the more fucked up situations thanks to Vail...

Stevens has been having later and later lift openings - if they even open certain lifts, shitty communication with the public, and the park is shit now. they've essentially been Vailborg'd to death. Vail doesn't want to pay patrollers any more than the parking lot attendants, and Stevens is a place that requires avy mitigation to open like, just about all the lifts. If they lose experienced patrollers due to turnover, they're fucked, and that's just one of the big issues they've had.

Squaw Valley actually became moderately less fucked? seeing as they sorta? stopped? trying to put in an idiotic waterpark? I think? (please locals correct me if I'm wrong) and changed the name to a name that actually doesn't suck, and is actually pretty cool in my straight-up honest opinion.

Honestly though, Ill never go skiing there on a powder day anymore as its too much of a fucking show. I mean it always was, but I am so so over it after my years there. I did it. My days standing for an hour in the KT22 line were over 5 years ago.

 

[theabortionator]

Have heard attitash and crotched also went to shit

Had to have northstar snowmakers fly out to finish making snow there

 

[theabortionator]

Wildcat was absolutely ass vibes the last 3 times I made it there last year, haven’t been yet this season though.

Wildcat used to be sick vibes. They used to do a pasta night every other week for any mtn employee in the valley. Shit was so dsnk and my only legit meal for a while sometimes when i was poor living in NH.

Bummer to hear.

Also crotched was mentioned. Only rode there a few days but park was sick and midnoght madness was wild. Video park 2010 was a good time.

 

[theabortionator]

I would skip Colorado completely, it gets hyped up but it's actually one of the worst places to ski in the west. Utah, Idaho, Nevada/Cali, Montana, Wyoming, PNW are all better.

Most resorts will be busy and my best advice would be to chase snow, otherwise just pick a place and go, hard to go wrong with most skiing in the west.

Aspen is pretty sweet. Highlands is one of my favorite mtns. Ajax is sick. Snowmass or bmilk for parks. Take the rafta bus if you can't get deal on hotel.

Also some sick mtns in other spots. Not everything is vail on i70.

Haven't been to Crested butte since vail bought it but thats a good one.

Between people moving ski towns to work remote, the big passes, everywhere is getting over run.

I guess it just depends what you're looking for.

Chasing snkw is a good bet if you dont need to book farther in advance.

 

[PBraunstein]

The IKON pass 100% ruined solitude, it was the best kept secret in the wasatch.

PC has barely changed since Vail, one less park and thats about it.

PC barely changed? Have you been there this season eheath? The lack of staffing is laughable.. trails that have been traditionally groomed every other year ive skied there haven't been groomed once this season. The parking/traffic has been an absolute shit show as well.. if you're not in the town of PC before 8, you're sitting in dead stopped traffic through the lights. I would say that vail has done a solid job of changing not only the town dynamic of PC, but also the mountain. As far as parks go, I dont need to remind you that we used to have 3 filmable parks on the mountain and thats been reduced to 1 (and the ugliest one of the 3 being the gully). The 'big line' is a joke this season and I woudn't consider it film worthy either. #stopbuildinghalfpipes #bringbackjonseys #theyarelitterallyturningKingsCrownintocondos

I would say that PC has changed a lot, and none for the better.

 

[MaimHelp]

inb4 weastcoast & maimhelp bring up springs/bigboulder

You don’t ski

big boulder

 

[cobra_commander]

Steven’s Pass was real fucked at the start of the year - only 40% of the terrain was open due to staffing. Not totally a pay issue as they all got a pretty hefty pay raise when Vail took over. It was a culture and HR issue. Vail has changed out leadership bringing a long time local in and appears to be making an honest attempt to make things right.

Stowe and PCMR seem to be the most fucked of major areas regarding crowds and staffing

ikon just made everywhere crowded by reducing the cost of this luxury sport but actual operations seem to work.

 

[PsychicMigration]

Aspen is pretty sweet. Highlands is one of my favorite mtns. Ajax is sick. Snowmass or bmilk for parks. Take the rafta bus if you can't get deal on hotel.

Also some sick mtns in other spots. Not everything is vail on i70.

Haven't been to Crested butte since vail bought it but thats a good one.

Between people moving ski towns to work remote, the big passes, everywhere is getting over run.

I guess it just depends what you're looking for.

Chasing snkw is a good bet if you dont need to book farther in advance.

Im in an interesting situation since I would likely have to either drive 6,000 miles round trip or cough up a 400$ flight which is more affordable but then probable have to get around by a bus maybe rent a car thats just so expensive for like 10 days. I was thinking to fly into reno and hit any of the big four there but really have no idea what would be ideal. I know nothing of kirkwood and heavenly although my off guess is its like deer valley. palisades and northstar seem fun tho. Any advice

 

[PsychicMigration]

Steven’s Pass was real fucked at the start of the year - only 40% of the terrain was open due to staffing. Not totally a pay issue as they all got a pretty hefty pay raise when Vail took over. It was a culture and HR issue. Vail has changed out leadership bringing a long time local in and appears to be making an honest attempt to make things right.

Stowe and PCMR seem to be the most fucked of major areas regarding crowds and staffing

ikon just made everywhere crowded by reducing the cost of this luxury sport but actual operations seem to work.

The only Ikon that I've recently been to was Stratton and wow have they fucked it with the crowds. They run the same lifts although prices are fucked. Some of that issue is southern VT mountains get over run with NY MA CT and even RI skiers anytime its half decent because its close. Mostly they just choose a pass and hit Snow or Stratton it seems sometimes Okemo but fuck that mountain. Exactly what your saying.

 

[eheath]

PC barely changed? Have you been there this season eheath? The lack of staffing is laughable.. trails that have been traditionally groomed every other year ive skied there haven't been groomed once this season. The parking/traffic has been an absolute shit show as well.. if you're not in the town of PC before 8, you're sitting in dead stopped traffic through the lights. I would say that vail has done a solid job of changing not only the town dynamic of PC, but also the mountain. As far as parks go, I dont need to remind you that we used to have 3 filmable parks on the mountain and thats been reduced to 1 (and the ugliest one of the 3 being the gully). The 'big line' is a joke this season and I woudn't consider it film worthy either. #stopbuildinghalfpipes #bringbackjonseys #theyarelitterallyturningKingsCrownintocondos

I would say that PC has changed a lot, and none for the better.

The staffing is an issue, but thats been a problem for a few years, covid accelerated that as well. This isn't a problem unique to Vail, this is happening at all resorts.

Your other points aren't wrong but since Vail came we only lost 1 "filmable" park (kings was gonna go away anyways) transitions seems to be done and that sucks for less experienced park skiers for sure, but 3 kings has been great for filming in my opinion but thats a pretty niche standpoint and you know that.

PC has always had traffic, the lots have always got full, there are definitely more skiers but I wouldn't say thats necessarily ruins the mountain, I think to a point I'm fine with more people skiing, they enjoy it just like I do, who am I to say they shouldn't do it?

It's not 2007 anymore thats for sure, but overall not much has changed other than more people and a cheaper season pass. I am in no way trying to defend what Vail has done/what the industry has done the last 5 years, but I would argue LCC/BCC has much bigger issues than PC/DV.

 

[eheath]

Aspen is pretty sweet. Highlands is one of my favorite mtns. Ajax is sick. Snowmass or bmilk for parks. Take the rafta bus if you can't get deal on hotel.

This is a fair point, Aspen is great, it's just expensive, which isn't uncommon for any ski town but Aspen is just a little extra, but highlands is awesome, I've heard great things about ajax but I've never made it up there. Buttermilk is the PC of aspen, its not really worth going to IMO.

 

[skierman]

If you're talking about underpaid staffing mainly ski patrol leading to less of the resort being opened up and the destruction of the parks? Well then...

Park City

Breckenridge

Keystone

Sunapee

Crotched

Solitude

Stowe

Okemo

Attitash

Roundtop

Liberty

Big Boulder

Northstar

Yeah, fuck Vail.

 

[BrandoComando]

Im in an interesting situation since I would likely have to either drive 6,000 miles round trip or cough up a 400$ flight which is more affordable but then probable have to get around by a bus maybe rent a car thats just so expensive for like 10 days. I was thinking to fly into reno and hit any of the big four there but really have no idea what would be ideal. I know nothing of kirkwood and heavenly although my off guess is its like deer valley. palisades and northstar seem fun tho. Any advice

Palisades is awesome. It will always be the heart of skiing in Tahoe.

Northstar has a super legit park, but the rest of the mountain is groomers. Not much terrain and usually pretty crowded. Parking is fucked.

Heavenly is pretty, but the crowds suck and the mountain has a weird layout. The canyons on the NV side are fun though.

Make the trip to Kirkwood. It doesn't get a ton of hype because it isn't a big built-up resort like the other 3, but it's legit. My favorite mountain in Tahoe. There are so many gnarly shit-your-bib lines and some super unique terrain features. Best part is that it's less crowded than the big resorts

**This post was edited on Feb 16th 2022 at 11:51:39am

 

[Whackson]

Big Boulder. Always top 3 for parks on the East Coast IMO. There was a point where every trail was a park. Almost felt fake they ran the place so amazing. Vail indirectly made the whole park crew quit with absurd regulations for their park program. RIP

 

[mountaindewgirl]

Wilmot. The brand is being managed so clumsily thar Vail seems totally out of place there.

 

[Gmeister25]

Have heard attitash and crotched also went to shit

attitash was already shit

 

[PsychicMigration]

Palisades is awesome. It will always be the heart of skiing in Tahoe.

Northstar has a super legit park, but the rest of the mountain is groomers. Not much terrain and usually pretty crowded. Parking is fucked.

Heavenly is pretty, but the crowds suck and the mountain has a weird layout. The canyons on the NV side are fun though.

Make the trip to Kirkwood. It doesn't get a ton of hype because it isn't a big built-up resort like the other 3, but it's legit. My favorite mountain in Tahoe. There are so many gnarly shit-your-bib lines and some super unique terrain features. Best part is that it's less crowded than the big resorts

**This post was edited on Feb 16th 2022 at 11:51:39am

My tentative plan would probably be to ski Kirkwood for weekends then and midweek to North Star for a day and the other two at heavenly Tuesday - Thur when it’s not as crowded. Thanks for the input

 

[whatsamonad]

The only Ikon that I've recently been to was Stratton and wow have they fucked it with the crowds. They run the same lifts although prices are fucked. Some of that issue is southern VT mountains get over run with NY MA CT and even RI skiers anytime its half decent because its close. Mostly they just choose a pass and hit Snow or Stratton it seems sometimes Okemo but fuck that mountain. Exactly what your saying.

Stratton has always been crowded as shit since it’s so far south like you said

 

[xiaolongbao]

I actually know the guy that took over, Tom Fortune, him and his wife were regulars in my restaurant until he moved to to Stevens Pass this year. Good guy and his wife says it's going well so far. I am a better skier tho

Steven’s Pass was real fucked at the start of the year - only 40% of the terrain was open due to staffing. Not totally a pay issue as they all got a pretty hefty pay raise when Vail took over. It was a culture and HR issue. Vail has changed out leadership bringing a long time local in and appears to be making an honest attempt to make things right.

Stowe and PCMR seem to be the most fucked of major areas regarding crowds and staffing

ikon just made everywhere crowded by reducing the cost of this luxury sport but actual operations seem to work.

 

[cobra_commander]

If you're talking about underpaid staffing mainly ski patrol leading to less of the resort being opened up and the destruction of the parks? Well then...

Park City

Breckenridge

Keystone

Sunapee

Crotched

Solitude

Stowe

Okemo

Attitash

Roundtop

Liberty

Big Boulder

Northstar

Yeah, fuck Vail.

Vail has increased pay at pretty much every ski area they purchase, across the board. It’s more a culture issue. Patrol is grossly underpaid across the industry and Vail Resorts didn’t change that.

it did give the patrollers a larger clearly profitable entity to target however.

vail also cleared out a bunch of upper and middle management at each area as well as removing staff who wouldn’t get on board with the Vail resorts image.

it isn’t just about pay but all the other things

 

[theabortionator]

This is a fair point, Aspen is great, it's just expensive, which isn't uncommon for any ski town but Aspen is just a little extra, but highlands is awesome, I've heard great things about ajax but I've never made it up there. Buttermilk is the PC of aspen, its not really worth going to IMO.

Yeah i only rode ajax a bit but it has good terrain and lacks crowds. A lot of the people ride snowmass. I think it was doing like 60 percent of the traffic between the 4 mtns. Buttermilk is only worth it for the park. And that can fluctuate year to year. Snowmass i only rode park at mostly but it has some cool terrain.

With them all being under the same umbrella corp even before ikon and the free bus was always easy to ski one for a while and then sometimes hit another.

I feel you though CO is blown out. A lot of places are. Idk. As somebody that's riding park shittier and shittier thats scary to think about. Hopefully there are still some hidden gems.

 

[xiaolongbao]

I live in lake Tahoe. Bout to ski heavenly today. Kirkwood is where it's the goods are. Still underrated and well run, even with Bail management. Northstar's park is killer, but it's the only reason to ever ski there. Heavenly is gorgeous and you feel like an Olympic skier there compared to 99% of people on the mountain. Decent park (not anything special) and really good tree skiing.

My tentative plan would probably be to ski Kirkwood for weekends then and midweek to North Star for a day and the other two at heavenly Tuesday - Thur when it’s not as crowded. Thanks for the input

 

[theabortionator]

Im in an interesting situation since I would likely have to either drive 6,000 miles round trip or cough up a 400$ flight which is more affordable but then probable have to get around by a bus maybe rent a car thats just so expensive for like 10 days. I was thinking to fly into reno and hit any of the big four there but really have no idea what would be ideal. I know nothing of kirkwood and heavenly although my off guess is its like deer valley. palisades and northstar seem fun tho. Any advice

Kirkwood is one of my favorite places. Hit it. But def need a rental car. In general but def to get to kirkwood. Place is fun on a pow day or spring skiing.

If you have time and epic pass heavenly is cool enough good views and park actually looks decent this year. Really not a big fan of heavenly.

Northstar is cool. Parks are sick and there's some fun tree skiing and groomers.

Boreal, diamond peak, homewood, i like a lit and have cheap tickets. Kingvale just reopened with a tow rope park.

Squaw/pallisades is cool but a shitshow on a pow day getting there and even to a lift. But there is sick terrain. Parks can be pretty sick or meh depending on time of season.

Homewood, dp, and rose get slept on sometimes but they're sick.

Tahoe is a great bet. Lots of mtns. The lake is cool. Gambling and music at the casinos if anyone is into those things. Can skate all year too if skiing isn't enough.

Traffic can be bad but it really isn't terrible outside of really bad days. When it isnt a busy pow day or holiday pretty chill.

Tahoe is a great time. Reno is pretty easy to fly into. Small little airport but has some cheap flights.

In terms of great mtns close to one another, sick views, and all that it's hard to beat it. If it's not snowing it'll at least be sunny.

 

[PsychicMigration]

Stratton has always been crowded as shit since it’s so far south like you said

Afternoon laps off shooting star used to slap though.

 

[PsychicMigration]

Kirkwood is one of my favorite places. Hit it. But def need a rental car. In general but def to get to kirkwood. Place is fun on a pow day or spring skiing.

If you have time and epic pass heavenly is cool enough good views and park actually looks decent this year. Really not a big fan of heavenly.

Northstar is cool. Parks are sick and there's some fun tree skiing and groomers.

Boreal, diamond peak, homewood, i like a lit and have cheap tickets. Kingvale just reopened with a tow rope park.

Squaw/pallisades is cool but a shitshow on a pow day getting there and even to a lift. But there is sick terrain. Parks can be pretty sick or meh depending on time of season.

Homewood, dp, and rose get slept on sometimes but they're sick.

Tahoe is a great bet. Lots of mtns. The lake is cool. Gambling and music at the casinos if anyone is into those things. Can skate all year too if skiing isn't enough.

Traffic can be bad but it really isn't terrible outside of really bad days. When it isnt a busy pow day or holiday pretty chill.

Tahoe is a great time. Reno is pretty easy to fly into. Small little airport but has some cheap flights.

In terms of great mtns close to one another, sick views, and all that it's hard to beat it. If it's not snowing it'll at least be sunny.

I’m a spring skiing addict so I might try and go once it’s like 50+ degrees too. The car thing is the reason I might drive and get to see a bunch of the US I never have before plus I just like my own car preferably I’ll have a westfalia by next spring sometime and yes I know the issues that come with it but I’ve wanted one since I was a young kid.