Insomniac
Active member
So this is from another message board(That im not posting the name of), and I wanted to know what you all think...
Ski999:Daron Rahlves responds to Tanner Hall's disparaging comments about ski racers
December 01, 2004
'He had some good things to say about how he loves skiing, and how he needs to thank his parents for giving him this opportunity. Which is great. That’s how most kids start, and it’s good to see the respect there. But the question was, what do you feel about Bode Miller making these multimillion-dollar contracts, and he’s like 'it’s b------ man,' and 'this man' and 'that man.' And 'downhill racing’s so easy,' and 'all you have to do is go top to bottom and there’s no changes in terrain.'
'Are you kidding me? If somebody’s going to be talking smack about something and putting something down, they should know. He’s not educated enough. He’s young, and he’s in his own little freeskiing world. To me, I think it’s great the way they expand the sport, and it’s something the industry must pay attention to. But jumping on rails is more like rollerblades. To me it’s not skiing. If you’re skiing, you’re taking stuff on the mountain and using natural terrain and stuff. These guys are impressive and they work hard to accomplish these tricks, but it’s the same thing over and over again.
'He says 'man' so many times in his interview, he should learn to be a man and respect those guys that have earned something. We get paid well because we’re obviously doing something for the sport. I pose a challenge to Tanner. I said 'I’ll hook you up with some downhill boards and you come up to Val Gardena or Kitzbuhel. And just make it to the bottom. That’s all I ask.' I gave him the dates. December 15-18 and January 21-23…
'I’m not claiming anything, and I’m not trying to put down freeskiing at all, because it’s a great part of the sport. But there’s a lot of respect that they should give us even if they don’t think it’s quite what they have. We’re out there doing what we can, and it’s not easy. I want to see him strap on some 215’s. He couldn’t even turn those things, couldn’t even ski a clean arc on those things.
'I think what Tanner Hall is getting to is saying that ski racers just go top to bottom racing gates and that’s it. Another thing he said was, 'you get me on a downhill and I’ll make it to the bottom, and I might not be as fast as these guys, but you put any ski racer in a pipe and he won’t even drop in.'
'That’s wrong. It’s wrong that he could make it to the bottom, plus it’s wrong that I wouldn’t drop in.'
insomniac:They make freeskiing sound so freaking EASY. Everything is not the same. I cant, I cant write anything to this crap. And tanner used to ski 2--'s. alot of the freeskiers did. That guy knows jack about tanner. Even though I dont like T hall, that article pisses me off.
Nitro_rider:yea man that article pissed me off a lot too and i dont even ski. i have A LOT of respect for freeskiers. sometimes i might even have more respect for them than i do a lot of snowboarders. and a lot of the shit in there in no way is true. i think that freeskiing takes a LOT more hard work, practice, and dedication than racing does (no offense to any of you guys who do race). but there is just so much more to freeksiing, i believe. and it definetely is not the same thing over and over again
Gurpskier:Freestyle and racing cannot be compared. Its just like comparing snowboarding to skiing. It CANNOT be done fairly. Racing and freestyle are just 2 great parts of skiing. What does it matter if u ski 2--'s or if u can do 720s? To me they cant be compared fairly. This article is gay.
insomniac:Im not saying racing doesnt take practice hard work and dedication, but he basically said freeskiing doesnt. So whoever wrote that can kiss my freeskiing ass.
The_Public_Enemy:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 02:29 PM)
They make freeskiing sound so freaking EASY. Everything is not the same. I cant, I cant write anything to this crap. And tanner used to ski 2--'s. alot of the freeskiers did. That guy knows jack about tanner. Even though I dont like T hall, that article pisses me off.
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Bingo. A lot of the big name freeskiers came from racing backgrounds. They were in racing academies and got sick of running gates on days they could be hitting pow.
I would argue that Big Mountain skiiers have even higher skill than racers. They have to be contantly scoping and changing their line and reading the snow. I don't know how many of you have skied in the type of powder they are in, but it is HARD to make a clean turn in it, much less make it look easy like they do.
For that guy to argue freeskiing is repetitive is moronic. If you want to talk about doing the same thing over and over again you should be talking about pre-set race courses. Freekiing is dynamic and ALWAYS changing. So if anyone has the right to criticize the other type of skier, I feel it's the racer gone freeskier (or vica versa, but that doesn't happen all that often).
Atomicskier:I think of freestyle skiing as a car show, and DH/SG/GS/SL as a Forumla 1 race. You goto a car show to show off, you do tricks to show off. Whats harder, going to a car show, or racing Formula 1? You park rats who just sit in the park all day are just wasting the whole entire mountain. I know people who have gone to Mammoth and spent their whole week in the park! Its so absurd, the only reason to do tricks is so you can say to your friends 'ohh, look what i did!'. Ski racing is hard, skiing LIKE a ski racer is hard, let alone trying to ski with the precision, and stability that they do, down trails that are so rediciously hard. It's nieve of you to think freestyle skiing is harder then ski racing.
The only reason you'll EVER see me in the park, is to promote *This Forum* biggrin.gif
Gurpskier:as i said before YOU CANNOT COMPARE FREESTYLE AND RACING!!!! its like comparing skiing and snowboarding. its impossible to compare fairly.
insomniac:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 04:04 PM)
I think of freestyle skiing as a car show, and DH/SG/GS/SL as a Forumla 1 race. You goto a car show to show off, you do tricks to show off. Whats harder, going to a car show, or racing Formula 1? You park rats who just sit in the park all day are just wasting the whole entire mountain. I know people who have gone to Mammoth and spent their whole week in the park! Its so absurd, the only reason to do tricks is so you can say to your friends 'ohh, look what i did!'. Ski racing is hard, skiing LIKE a ski racer is hard, let alone trying to ski with the precision, and stability that they do, down trails that are so rediciously hard. It's nieve of you to think freestyle skiing is harder then ski racing.
The only reason you'll EVER see me in the park, is to promote *This Forum* biggrin.gif
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No, tricks are not to show off. No.
Atomicskier:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 03:06 PM)
No, tricks are not to show off. No.
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'tricks' are what magicians do, and what do they do? Show off lol.gif
insomniac:Someone else? Please.
Gurpskier:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 03:08 PM)
'tricks' are what magicians do, and what do they do? Show off lol.gif
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U know whats a good trick? A magician pulling a rabbit out of ur ass!
insomniac:You do 'tricks' to test your skills. Your limits. I wouldnt expect you to know what sliding your first rail feels like. Its one of the best. It all comes down to what you like more. but they are NOT about showing off.
Gurpskier:Delete this thread before a *This Forum* WAR starts.
Thinksnow:No, this is OK... differing opinions are to be expected, just keep it civil
Atomicskier:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 03:12 PM)
You do 'tricks' to test your skills. Your limits. I wouldnt expect you to know what sliding your first rail feels like. Its one of the best. It all comes down to what you like more. but they are NOT about showing off.
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funny you say that, because after I converted BACK to being a skier, I skied on twintips, and I loved the park, and you could throw any rail at me, and I'd pWn it. Now my skis stay on the ground, go figure. laugh.gif
Gurpskier:Well thats what u wanna do race. But i enjoy the feeling of metal or airunder my skis. U dont ahve to be hatin on freestylers just because thats what they enjoy to do. Its not about whats better or whats harder, its about what u enjoy to do. Thats one reason i started skiing, because i love the choices u can make about it. If u wanna be a freestyler ot racer, its our choice.
insomniac:Suprising.
Heres another article by some ass on freeskiing. kinda.
A rebutal
And heres another thing on that article, but Im not sure if the links work anymore...
(Note:These were links to that Denver post thing)
insomniac:QUOTE(Gurpskier @ Dec 23 2004, 04:18 PM)
Well thats what u wanna do race. But i enjoy the feeling of metal or airunder my skis. U dont ahve to be hatin on freestylers just because thats what they enjoy to do. Its not about whats better or whats harder, its about what u enjoy to do. Thats one reason i started skiing, because i love the choices u can make about it. If u wanna be a freestyler ot racer, its our choice.
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You started skiing cause I made you go.
Racerchick:ok as i'm reading down this post i'm trying to take it all in, first off yes i'm on the racing side of this but....i think they are both equaly hard. i have friends on both sides(ok all three, snowboarding, racing and freeskiing). we all go out there and work our asses off to do what we love, if you love racing thats awesoem but don't put down everyone else on the Mt. if you like freeskiing thats great too but don't say you work harder. thats like if you go into a school and the football team says they work harder then the soccer team. we all practice(in many differnt forms) we all do what we love. a racer goes out there early in the morning practices all day going through gates and up and down the course that though out the day changes b.c of the weather and the snow. we have to be able to deside when there is going to be ice, slush, or nice snow. a boarder goes out there and rides the park all day looking at others to see what he can improve and testing things out. a freeskiier goes out and watches as the conditions change and that takes alot of practice as well. i think tanner hall is wrong to say that racing isn't hard. but i dont' think we should say that what he does isn't hard
Gurpskier:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 03:21 PM)
You started skiing cause I made you go.
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Actually, i started skiblading cause u made me. I started skiing on my own with alittle help from other ppl to make me realize how gay blade where.
insomniac:Just so you know, I'm not condoning what Tanner said, I'm just argueing what that asshead said in his article.
insomniac:QUOTE(Gurpskier @ Dec 23 2004, 04:24 PM)
Actually, i started skiblading cause u made me. I started skiing on my own with alittle help from other ppl to make me realize how gay blade where.
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Yeah, CJ on NS made fun of you.
AtomicSkier:oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on freestyle skiers, I just think there is better things you could do on the mountain, then staying on one trail. Whatever floats your boat (or your skis in powder ) laugh.gif
Gurpskier:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 03:28 PM)
oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on freestyle skiers, I just think there is better things you could do on the mountain, then staying on one trail. Whatever floats your boat (or your skis in powder ) laugh.gif
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for 1, theres 2 terrain parks at boulder so thats 2 trails, and 2. freestyle skiiers do more than sit in the park all day. We like to have alittle freeriding too. It not ALL about the park.
3. i totally agree with racerchick
ski999:Holy crap, I was just pointing out a funny thing Rahlves said about daring Tanner to just try to make it down a real downhill course.
First off, Tanner started it. This was just a rebutal. Rahlves---like Bode---doesn't want to piss off anyone. He's just interested in skiing fast and signing the incredibly huge endorsment deals that irked Hall.
So Hall was pissy that racers make seven-figures, while Rahlves was pissed that Hall disrespected racers. Maybe they should shut up, but it makes for fun reading.
Gurpskier:hey ski, 1 more post and ull have 1000 posts biggrin.gif
Nitro_Rider:yea park definetely is not just showing off. its another whole aspect of the sport. tricks arent to show off, theyre to push yourself and give you something to work on
ski999:QUOTE(Gurpskier @ Dec 23 2004, 03:57 PM)
hey ski, 1 more post and ull have 1000 posts biggrin.gif
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Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
Atomicskier:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:15 PM)
Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
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welcome to the club!
Gurpskier:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:15 PM)
Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
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Your welcome
dthmtluncrn:First off, if tricks weren't for show
1. You wouldn't worry about style, because after all its not for show, its for fun
2. You wouldn't film/photgraph it, because its not to show others, its for the fun/progression
Not to say doing tricks aren't fun, but to deny their 'show off' nature is to lie to yourself. Further more, its perfectly fine to show off, we all want other people to think we're great etc. So stop trying to act like your cooler than you are, and admit you like the attention of showing off your sweet trick.
Secondly, I woulnd't call freeskiing repeatitive, but I wouldn't call it innovative either. It's about as repeatitive as racing I would imagine. There hasn't been a whole lot of NEW stuff. Sure a particular skiier can progress and do new things, but likewise a racer gets faster and it becomes a different ballgame. Just with racing its more gradual, its not I got the trick or I didn't. Its I took a second of my time.
Thirdly, I know the came across as hating on freeskiers, but if you read what he said, he was giving respect. I think its kind of funny that the freeskiers who supposedly don't care about anything (thats what was said in the newschoolers site) took so much offense to people saying anything negative about their sport. Look, he was responding to Hall, who obviously is a jerk and is caught up with himself. Its not surprising that he is trying downplay freeskiing if only to elevate racing. But your blind if you don't see the fact that he's giving respect to freeskiers in general. Honestly, thats all this statement was, a call for respect, but its turned into a massive fued on this board. Makes me sick, and I'm not on either side.
Anyways my final thoughs:
A. freeskiers - those guys are sick couldn't do it, props for taking hard falls and still skiing
B. racers - again sick, coudln't do it, props to you for getting up early, listening to coaches etc
C. telemark - you guys are REALLY sick. mad props for actually doing something different. you are all my idols.
EDIT: BTW Racerchick got it right
dthmtluncrn:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:15 PM)
Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
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That picture is rather disturbing... are there more?
Atomicskier:Thanks dthmtluncrn, as I've said to you before, its refreshing to see someone, especially a snowboarder, with such an open mind, and such diverse opinions. I agree with alot of your points too... yes.gif
Lineski2007:everyone skis because they love it, when you first got into skiing did u really say to yourself hmm should be a fast racer or have sick style in the park. no you started skiing and then you couldnt stop. i dont understand why skiers give them selfs titles like freeskier, racer, or you just ride. you ski because you get the chance to bomb down a snow covered mountain on two pieces of wood. this doesnt really make sense to the topic but my point is this whole fight of racers or freestylers is stupid. you ski because you love it.
Gurpskier:I dislike tanner. No offense he is a good freestyle skier.
dthmtluncrn:QUOTE(lineski2007 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:33 PM)
everyone skis because they love it, when you first got into skiing did u really say to yourself hmm should be a fast racer or have sick style in the park. no you started skiing and then you couldnt stop. i dont understand why skiers give them selfs titles like freeskier, racer, or you just ride. you ski because you get the chance to bomb down a snow covered mountain on two pieces of wood. this doesnt really make sense to the topic but my point is this whole fight of racers or freestylers is stupid. you ski because you love it.
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Actually this is right on point, the fight is stupid, its a call for respect. It is about fun, the names are means of convenience, even if we all go down the mountain we do so in different ways, theres always been the type 1,2,3 skiier. Now there is the added difference of racer/freeskier, because they have different equipment needs, and for understandings sake. It's so if your talking to a friend you have not skiied with before, and you go to ski together, your not surprised when your friend wants to ride trails all day or ride park all day, or the all mountain skiier who wants to do a little bit all day.The names are just for convenience.
Ski999:Since they have to cover quite a few of their own expenses, here's what pisses Hall (on left?) off:
$7K is like first prize in a horseshoe tournament.
Atomicskier:good point Ski999, and you think freestyle skiers fall, and it hurts? Think how much this would hurt, the force was so great, even his ski broke...Thats extreme
World cuppers typically fly off 'jumps' at anywhere from 70 to 90 mph....
and its hard to find anyone who can do this:
but the truth is, my friend, who i ski with all the time, who lives in SLC (hes my Alta connection) is a freestyle skier, but its a little different out there. He was in the XGames, but when we ski, he does some backcountry stuff, which even i can't help doing, but it's just different around here. There is one side of me which loves to rip GS arcs all the way down a nice firm trail. There is the other side of me that loves to jump cliffs, ski deep powder, and pull some spins, but only in soft snow biggrin.gif
Ski999:The downside to racing is that can seem like a dead end for kids. One kid from each year is invited to the US Development Team---not the actually US Ski Team, or even the 'B' or 'C' teams. I believe that even the X Games are still an open event, with early qualifiers for walk-ons.
Then you get a kid like Jon Olsson from Sweden, who was a half-ass junior racer. When he quit racing and entered freestyle comps, he was unbeatable and got laid dozens of times a week. And who ever heard of Jeremy Nobis before he quit the US Ski Team and started posing in movies?
Being a great skier is about training and coaching. It's about hours on the snow. Like anything, the more crap you go through, the better you end up. If you just want to have fun, then head out on nice days. If you want people to pay to watch you and have you wear their stuff, then you can expect years of bullshit, pain, and sacrifice.
And showing off? Nothing wrong with that. The first ASRA race I ever win, the paskiandride logo will have to be redesigned to include a picture of me!
Atomicskier:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 06:55 PM)
And showing off? Nothing wrong with that. The first ASRA race I ever win, the paskiandride logo will have to be redesigned to include a picture of me!
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at least we won't have to worry about that....ever. laugh.gif
You better just watch our or I'LL beat you tongue.gif
dthmtluncrn:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 06:18 PM)
good point Ski999, and you think freestyle skiers fall, and it hurts? Think how much this would hurt, the force was so great, even his ski broke...Thats extreme
Not saying racers don't take hard falls, but on average, the AVERAGE freeskier is going to take more hard falls then the AVERAGE racer.
Lineski2007:QUOTE(dthmtluncrn @ Dec 23 2004, 07:04 PM)
Not saying racers don't take hard falls, but on average, the AVERAGE freeskier is going to take more hard falls then the AVERAGE racer.
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agreed. there a worse crashes in freeskiing then racing, your either falling on metal or falling from mid air. im not saying racers dont fall hard but you will fall harder and more in freeskiing
linemavericks:QUOTE
Not saying racers don't take hard falls, but on average, the AVERAGE freeskier is going to take more hard falls then the AVERAGE racer
most of the time this is true that park skiing falls hurt worse, but imagine going 70 mph and falling .
dthmtluncrn:Backcountry has everyone beat, no one can top cliff drops onto rocks that kill you tongue.gif
Atomicskier:QUOTE(lineski2007 @ Dec 23 2004, 07:25 PM)
agreed. there a worse crashes in freeskiing then racing, your either falling on metal or falling from mid air. im not saying racers dont fall hard but you will fall harder and more in freeskiing
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freestyle skiers may fall more often, but they don't fall harder then racers. I never see freestyle skiers breaking skis when they fall, or falling down the mountain for what seems like hours. A fall when you're racing, at high speeds will usually equal something broken or torn, or dislocated...
librider:snowboarders take some hard falls too smile.gif just thought id chime in
Atomicskier:QUOTE(librider @ Dec 23 2004, 07:53 PM)
snowboarders take some hard falls too smile.gif just thought id chime in
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you guys are more vulnerable then skiers. Snowboarders, its either a face plant, or an ass plant, both which can HURT. Skiers, its more of a side impact, in which you can almost make the fall feel like nothing (when your skiing on a trail that is)
Gurpskier:Actaully the one ski movie i have the one guy (cant think of his name at the moment) broken his scratches in 1/2.
dthmtluncrn:Idk, if you straddle a rail on skis, thats just about as painful as it comes, I'd rather catch an edge anyday and ass/face plant over a nutbuster on a rail.
Gurpskier:Great point
Atomicskier:QUOTE(dthmtluncrn @ Dec 23 2004, 07:58 PM)
Idk, if you straddle a rail on skis, thats just about as painful as it comes, I'd rather catch an edge anyday and ass/face plant over a nutbuster on a rail.
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pwn3d.gif
thats all that needs to be said.
happy.gif
Lineskier2007:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 07:30 PM)
freestyle skiers may fall more often, but they don't fall harder then racers. I never see freestyle skiers breaking skis when they fall, or falling down the mountain for what seems like hours. A fall when you're racing, at high speeds will usually equal something broken or torn, or dislocated...
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i never said racers didnt fall hard or bad, but im still sticking with freeriders falls hurt more, i would rather fall on my side doing 60 then fall on my side from 30 feet in the air
forumdestroyer154:i can say falling on a rail does hurt especailly on ice sad.gif juss ask my tailbone
dthmtluncrn:Yeah falling on rails hurts, falling on ice hurts too, my buddy gapped off teh rainbow at CB to a sheet of ice last year and shattered his wrist. He rode most of the season in a cast smile.gif
ski999:A downhill racer will take about two and-a-half falls in his World Cup career. Statistically, the average crash involves a season ending knee injury (ACL, MCL, or combo) and a moderate concussion. Bones are broken/fractured in 26% of these crashes; the multiple fracture rate is 11%.
Downhill speed suits were made of rubber for a brief period, but they'd melt to the skier's skin after the fall.
World Cup races aren't held on snow. A wide bar, with tiny holes is dragged along the length of the course and water is injected into the surface to create ice.
Where are the top US downhillers today? US men's Olympic gold medalist Bill Johnson is still relearning to walk and talk after crashing in a comeback race. The 50mph impact caused him to bite his tongue off and choke on the blood, which cut oxygen off to his brain (on Sib's hill!). For US women? Picabo Street looks like Frankenstein from the waist down after dozens of surgeries. The last crash snapped both femurs, I believe.
Recent World Cup crashes involved a Swiss skier that sliced through the safety nets skis-first and he went into trees at 40mph. He's paralyzed. The top French women's downhiller was on course in a training run two year's ago. A course worker strolled out to check a gate. The racer, Regine Cavagnoud, died on impact.
The idea is to train so hard that you go through your career and never fall.
I'm not making any statements about parks and backcountry. I'm an old Scot Schmidt fan and he's best known for hucking his carcass off cliffs, rather than skiing it down.
ski999:But again, guys, I don't care one way or another about this arguement. Rahlves is one of my least favorite racers. And Tanner Hall looks like a chick. Screw them both.
insomniac:Jon Olsson is very good in BC. He's been winning BC comps left and right. And freeskiers snap their skis all the time. On rails or jumps or whatever. And I'm sure you know this but freeskiers tear stuff all the time. Usually acl or mcl. um... I forget what I was going to say. Oh yeah, to that Dthmtluncrn dude, style gives something else to work on. Rather then just the trick, you have the trick and style. and Video and Pictures is for memorys and self coaching. Dont lump it all into showing off. Some of it might be, but alot of it isnt.
sibhusky:I guess I feel that the closest thing to the 'heart' of what skiing is, is back country skiing. Next closest might be just free skiing (not freestyle), next most is racing. I know, I have a racer, but I think you lose the heart of skiing -- the freedom, the pure soaring of skiing -- when you start worrying about gates instead of terrain. The least close thing to skiing in my opinion is anything done in a park. (Notice I am ignoring what the equipment is here.) But the more the work of humans is important to the activity, i.e. grooming, rails, etc., the further you are from the pure sport.
That being said, I think most racers are very good skiers, as the ability to react to gates is important off-piste, only it is trees and boulders. And I imagine that the park rats MIGHT be good off-piste as well, but I am not sure about the ability to react since normally they do a pipe or whatever, the same one, again and again. I am not sure how surprises would impact them. Maybe the ability to land or whatever is there. I know that Warren Miller has included some racers doing extreme-type skiing in some of his movies and they did pretty well.
But in a nutshell, I don't think doing things in a park is 'skiing', it's closer to being in a skate park. It doesn't mean it doesn't take WORK to do it, but it also seems to be pretty far from SKIING. And, while they may be able to ski, it doesn't mean that if they are in a park what they are doing is skiing.
Oh, and I do prefer to ski with lifts and a concierge at the bottom to take and wax my skis for the next day. Let's not ever imagine Sib is going to be totally at home off a groomed slope.
librider:snowboarding is tottally different. first people just tryed going down hills, then they started trying tricks..and to my point racing came last for snowboarding. ans freeskiing came last for skiing.
insomniac:Alot of freestyle skiers are going into the backcountry, and I think you'd be suprised with what they're doing. And dont forget, that just because they do freestyle, doesn't thats all they do. A few pro examples are: Pollard rips the park on skis, anything the back country will throw at him, and he also snowboards. like 60/40. How about that? And Seth Morrison? That dudes crazy, he'll take anything you throw at him, and throw a flip in it aswell. CR Johnson started in the BC a year or two ago on his first trip and he did extremely well. Pep too. They can ski outside the park just as good as in. Dont limit them in there. If you ever get the chance, buy MSP's Focused. They took a trip to norway and they did better than I think you'd expect. And almost ALL park skiers would ditch the park for a day of powder. Anyday. We are real skiers. We CAN ski. And we do. Park is just something there to pass the time.
Joeskier:WOW!! a lot of good points made. in my opinion, just do whatever the F#$@! makes you happy. it all takes hard work to be good at what every style you choose. i have a lot of respect for all types of skiers, snowboarders on the other hand are just a waste. J/K!!!!!!!
Personally, I prefer to attack the whole mountain, i'd rather ski every trail. under any snow conditon nature wants to throw at me, pow, ice, granular, whatever! I couldn't see myself wasting time in one place either racing the same courses or screwing around in the park for hours at a time. i enjoy the challenge and the uniqueness of every trail. i need to enjoy different scenerey rather then the same old site of a terrain park or a race course.
With that said, i could care less what you choose to do and who has it harder freeskiers or racers and who gets injured more? come on! yeah accidents happen but if your getting injuerd on a regular basis then you are doing something wrong.
all thats important is you get out there and enjoy it.
zaldon:This is kinda like what would happen if mountian bikers and road bikers started to fight about which was more difficult, or takes harder crashes. My point is their is no purpose in fighting with each other, because it wont accomplish anything. wiggle.gif
lineski2007:about eric pollard the guy goes down backcountry backwards and carves!! who does that
and yes i dislike tanner hall too, honestly i dont think a lot of skiers like him
The_Public_Enemy:I think you really need to differentiate between a 'park rat' and a 'freeskier.' For example, I consider myself a freeskier. I started out in the racing developmental team, decided it wasn't for me and started to just ski. Since I came from that background, I keep good form and am not always in gorilla steez mode. When I go out west every year, I only hit the park once and spend the rest of the time in Vail's back bowls, skiing pow and finding nice drops.
This is what I'd call 'freeskiing,' being able to deftly conquer the whole mountain. A 'park rat' has no semblance of form when he's out of the park and would stare perplexed at a set of moguls confused.gif
Sibhusky:Just to clarify my point a bit. When I say 'free skiing' I mean just skiing to ski, not doing tricks or anything. It gets confusing these days because what used to be 'free skiing' meant just doing it (skiing). Now, all of a sudden, the 'new school' comes along and appropriates 'freeskiing' for its own use. That is why I tried to differentiate between 'freestyle' and 'free skiing'. I'm not sure what we old school types are supposed to call 'recreational skiing' now. Also, I didn't say people who frequent the park aren't skiers, just that when they are in the park, they are not really skiing. They may be having a great time, and may be working hard to improve their skills, but the relationship between what they are doing at that point and skiing is not as strong as the relationship to what they would be doing in a skateboard park. To me, going in the pipe and hitting rails or rainbows or whatever is just skateboarding without the wheels.
A big part of skiing should be enjoying the view, communing with nature, feeling the texture of the snow beneath your feet, etc. If you would be just as happy doing what you are doing in an indoor environment (like an ice rink type thing), then you have lost the heart of skiing.
lineski2007:QUOTE(sibhusky @ Dec 24 2004, 11:40 AM)
Just to clarify my point a bit. When I say 'free skiing' I mean just skiing to ski, not doing tricks or anything. It gets confusing these days because what used to be 'free skiing' meant just doing it (skiing). Now, all of a sudden, the 'new school' comes along and appropriates 'freeskiing' for its own use. That is why I tried to differentiate between 'freestyle' and 'free skiing'. I'm not sure what we old school types are supposed to call 'recreational skiing' now. Also, I didn't say people who frequent the park aren't skiers, just that when they are in the park, they are not really skiing. They may be having a great time, and may be working hard to improve their skills, but the relationship between what they are doing at that point and skiing is not as strong as the relationship to what they would be doing in a skateboard park. To me, going in the pipe and hitting rails or rainbows or whatever is just skateboarding without the wheels.
A big part of skiing should be enjoying the view, communing with nature, feeling the texture of the snow beneath your feet, etc. If you would be just as happy doing what you are doing in an indoor environment (like an ice rink type thing), then you have lost the heart of skiing.
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if skiing down a bunny trail is considered skiing why cant skiing in the park be considered skiing. im not saying that park skiers are all that, and yes i do agree that if you are a park rat you will not be well rounded and you will waste all of your time just hitting the park. but saying that park skiing is skateboarding without wheels is just wrong. im not saying that i disagree with everything you have to say, but park skiing is skiing.
dthmtluncrn:I think the point can be made, in the bunny slope the point is to make it down the slope in a fliud fashion. Lots of people in the park sit/stand around hit a feature, then hike back up. Theres no fluidity not even carving involved just ride straight, get the speed right for the feature, hit the feature and stop. Not to say that there aren't people who hit the whole park, but its cerainly not the same as even a run down a bunny slope.
-CraigeD
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'Ok, so I'm going to assume that you know someone named 'your' and he is, in fact, a homosexual.
Or do you mean to say: 'you're' gay?'-Tom Sorrell
Ski999:Daron Rahlves responds to Tanner Hall's disparaging comments about ski racers
December 01, 2004
'He had some good things to say about how he loves skiing, and how he needs to thank his parents for giving him this opportunity. Which is great. That’s how most kids start, and it’s good to see the respect there. But the question was, what do you feel about Bode Miller making these multimillion-dollar contracts, and he’s like 'it’s b------ man,' and 'this man' and 'that man.' And 'downhill racing’s so easy,' and 'all you have to do is go top to bottom and there’s no changes in terrain.'
'Are you kidding me? If somebody’s going to be talking smack about something and putting something down, they should know. He’s not educated enough. He’s young, and he’s in his own little freeskiing world. To me, I think it’s great the way they expand the sport, and it’s something the industry must pay attention to. But jumping on rails is more like rollerblades. To me it’s not skiing. If you’re skiing, you’re taking stuff on the mountain and using natural terrain and stuff. These guys are impressive and they work hard to accomplish these tricks, but it’s the same thing over and over again.
'He says 'man' so many times in his interview, he should learn to be a man and respect those guys that have earned something. We get paid well because we’re obviously doing something for the sport. I pose a challenge to Tanner. I said 'I’ll hook you up with some downhill boards and you come up to Val Gardena or Kitzbuhel. And just make it to the bottom. That’s all I ask.' I gave him the dates. December 15-18 and January 21-23…
'I’m not claiming anything, and I’m not trying to put down freeskiing at all, because it’s a great part of the sport. But there’s a lot of respect that they should give us even if they don’t think it’s quite what they have. We’re out there doing what we can, and it’s not easy. I want to see him strap on some 215’s. He couldn’t even turn those things, couldn’t even ski a clean arc on those things.
'I think what Tanner Hall is getting to is saying that ski racers just go top to bottom racing gates and that’s it. Another thing he said was, 'you get me on a downhill and I’ll make it to the bottom, and I might not be as fast as these guys, but you put any ski racer in a pipe and he won’t even drop in.'
'That’s wrong. It’s wrong that he could make it to the bottom, plus it’s wrong that I wouldn’t drop in.'
insomniac:They make freeskiing sound so freaking EASY. Everything is not the same. I cant, I cant write anything to this crap. And tanner used to ski 2--'s. alot of the freeskiers did. That guy knows jack about tanner. Even though I dont like T hall, that article pisses me off.
Nitro_rider:yea man that article pissed me off a lot too and i dont even ski. i have A LOT of respect for freeskiers. sometimes i might even have more respect for them than i do a lot of snowboarders. and a lot of the shit in there in no way is true. i think that freeskiing takes a LOT more hard work, practice, and dedication than racing does (no offense to any of you guys who do race). but there is just so much more to freeksiing, i believe. and it definetely is not the same thing over and over again
Gurpskier:Freestyle and racing cannot be compared. Its just like comparing snowboarding to skiing. It CANNOT be done fairly. Racing and freestyle are just 2 great parts of skiing. What does it matter if u ski 2--'s or if u can do 720s? To me they cant be compared fairly. This article is gay.
insomniac:Im not saying racing doesnt take practice hard work and dedication, but he basically said freeskiing doesnt. So whoever wrote that can kiss my freeskiing ass.
The_Public_Enemy:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 02:29 PM)
They make freeskiing sound so freaking EASY. Everything is not the same. I cant, I cant write anything to this crap. And tanner used to ski 2--'s. alot of the freeskiers did. That guy knows jack about tanner. Even though I dont like T hall, that article pisses me off.
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Bingo. A lot of the big name freeskiers came from racing backgrounds. They were in racing academies and got sick of running gates on days they could be hitting pow.
I would argue that Big Mountain skiiers have even higher skill than racers. They have to be contantly scoping and changing their line and reading the snow. I don't know how many of you have skied in the type of powder they are in, but it is HARD to make a clean turn in it, much less make it look easy like they do.
For that guy to argue freeskiing is repetitive is moronic. If you want to talk about doing the same thing over and over again you should be talking about pre-set race courses. Freekiing is dynamic and ALWAYS changing. So if anyone has the right to criticize the other type of skier, I feel it's the racer gone freeskier (or vica versa, but that doesn't happen all that often).
Atomicskier:I think of freestyle skiing as a car show, and DH/SG/GS/SL as a Forumla 1 race. You goto a car show to show off, you do tricks to show off. Whats harder, going to a car show, or racing Formula 1? You park rats who just sit in the park all day are just wasting the whole entire mountain. I know people who have gone to Mammoth and spent their whole week in the park! Its so absurd, the only reason to do tricks is so you can say to your friends 'ohh, look what i did!'. Ski racing is hard, skiing LIKE a ski racer is hard, let alone trying to ski with the precision, and stability that they do, down trails that are so rediciously hard. It's nieve of you to think freestyle skiing is harder then ski racing.
The only reason you'll EVER see me in the park, is to promote *This Forum* biggrin.gif
Gurpskier:as i said before YOU CANNOT COMPARE FREESTYLE AND RACING!!!! its like comparing skiing and snowboarding. its impossible to compare fairly.
insomniac:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 04:04 PM)
I think of freestyle skiing as a car show, and DH/SG/GS/SL as a Forumla 1 race. You goto a car show to show off, you do tricks to show off. Whats harder, going to a car show, or racing Formula 1? You park rats who just sit in the park all day are just wasting the whole entire mountain. I know people who have gone to Mammoth and spent their whole week in the park! Its so absurd, the only reason to do tricks is so you can say to your friends 'ohh, look what i did!'. Ski racing is hard, skiing LIKE a ski racer is hard, let alone trying to ski with the precision, and stability that they do, down trails that are so rediciously hard. It's nieve of you to think freestyle skiing is harder then ski racing.
The only reason you'll EVER see me in the park, is to promote *This Forum* biggrin.gif
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No, tricks are not to show off. No.
Atomicskier:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 03:06 PM)
No, tricks are not to show off. No.
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'tricks' are what magicians do, and what do they do? Show off lol.gif
insomniac:Someone else? Please.
Gurpskier:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 03:08 PM)
'tricks' are what magicians do, and what do they do? Show off lol.gif
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U know whats a good trick? A magician pulling a rabbit out of ur ass!
insomniac:You do 'tricks' to test your skills. Your limits. I wouldnt expect you to know what sliding your first rail feels like. Its one of the best. It all comes down to what you like more. but they are NOT about showing off.
Gurpskier:Delete this thread before a *This Forum* WAR starts.
Thinksnow:No, this is OK... differing opinions are to be expected, just keep it civil
Atomicskier:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 03:12 PM)
You do 'tricks' to test your skills. Your limits. I wouldnt expect you to know what sliding your first rail feels like. Its one of the best. It all comes down to what you like more. but they are NOT about showing off.
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funny you say that, because after I converted BACK to being a skier, I skied on twintips, and I loved the park, and you could throw any rail at me, and I'd pWn it. Now my skis stay on the ground, go figure. laugh.gif
Gurpskier:Well thats what u wanna do race. But i enjoy the feeling of metal or airunder my skis. U dont ahve to be hatin on freestylers just because thats what they enjoy to do. Its not about whats better or whats harder, its about what u enjoy to do. Thats one reason i started skiing, because i love the choices u can make about it. If u wanna be a freestyler ot racer, its our choice.
insomniac:Suprising.
Heres another article by some ass on freeskiing. kinda.
A rebutal
And heres another thing on that article, but Im not sure if the links work anymore...
(Note:These were links to that Denver post thing)
insomniac:QUOTE(Gurpskier @ Dec 23 2004, 04:18 PM)
Well thats what u wanna do race. But i enjoy the feeling of metal or airunder my skis. U dont ahve to be hatin on freestylers just because thats what they enjoy to do. Its not about whats better or whats harder, its about what u enjoy to do. Thats one reason i started skiing, because i love the choices u can make about it. If u wanna be a freestyler ot racer, its our choice.
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You started skiing cause I made you go.
Racerchick:ok as i'm reading down this post i'm trying to take it all in, first off yes i'm on the racing side of this but....i think they are both equaly hard. i have friends on both sides(ok all three, snowboarding, racing and freeskiing). we all go out there and work our asses off to do what we love, if you love racing thats awesoem but don't put down everyone else on the Mt. if you like freeskiing thats great too but don't say you work harder. thats like if you go into a school and the football team says they work harder then the soccer team. we all practice(in many differnt forms) we all do what we love. a racer goes out there early in the morning practices all day going through gates and up and down the course that though out the day changes b.c of the weather and the snow. we have to be able to deside when there is going to be ice, slush, or nice snow. a boarder goes out there and rides the park all day looking at others to see what he can improve and testing things out. a freeskiier goes out and watches as the conditions change and that takes alot of practice as well. i think tanner hall is wrong to say that racing isn't hard. but i dont' think we should say that what he does isn't hard
Gurpskier:QUOTE(insomniac @ Dec 23 2004, 03:21 PM)
You started skiing cause I made you go.
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Actually, i started skiblading cause u made me. I started skiing on my own with alittle help from other ppl to make me realize how gay blade where.
insomniac:Just so you know, I'm not condoning what Tanner said, I'm just argueing what that asshead said in his article.
insomniac:QUOTE(Gurpskier @ Dec 23 2004, 04:24 PM)
Actually, i started skiblading cause u made me. I started skiing on my own with alittle help from other ppl to make me realize how gay blade where.
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Yeah, CJ on NS made fun of you.
AtomicSkier:oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on freestyle skiers, I just think there is better things you could do on the mountain, then staying on one trail. Whatever floats your boat (or your skis in powder ) laugh.gif
Gurpskier:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 03:28 PM)
oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on freestyle skiers, I just think there is better things you could do on the mountain, then staying on one trail. Whatever floats your boat (or your skis in powder ) laugh.gif
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for 1, theres 2 terrain parks at boulder so thats 2 trails, and 2. freestyle skiiers do more than sit in the park all day. We like to have alittle freeriding too. It not ALL about the park.
3. i totally agree with racerchick
ski999:Holy crap, I was just pointing out a funny thing Rahlves said about daring Tanner to just try to make it down a real downhill course.
First off, Tanner started it. This was just a rebutal. Rahlves---like Bode---doesn't want to piss off anyone. He's just interested in skiing fast and signing the incredibly huge endorsment deals that irked Hall.
So Hall was pissy that racers make seven-figures, while Rahlves was pissed that Hall disrespected racers. Maybe they should shut up, but it makes for fun reading.
Gurpskier:hey ski, 1 more post and ull have 1000 posts biggrin.gif
Nitro_Rider:yea park definetely is not just showing off. its another whole aspect of the sport. tricks arent to show off, theyre to push yourself and give you something to work on
ski999:QUOTE(Gurpskier @ Dec 23 2004, 03:57 PM)
hey ski, 1 more post and ull have 1000 posts biggrin.gif
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Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
Atomicskier:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:15 PM)
Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
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welcome to the club!
Gurpskier:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:15 PM)
Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
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Your welcome
dthmtluncrn:First off, if tricks weren't for show
1. You wouldn't worry about style, because after all its not for show, its for fun
2. You wouldn't film/photgraph it, because its not to show others, its for the fun/progression
Not to say doing tricks aren't fun, but to deny their 'show off' nature is to lie to yourself. Further more, its perfectly fine to show off, we all want other people to think we're great etc. So stop trying to act like your cooler than you are, and admit you like the attention of showing off your sweet trick.
Secondly, I woulnd't call freeskiing repeatitive, but I wouldn't call it innovative either. It's about as repeatitive as racing I would imagine. There hasn't been a whole lot of NEW stuff. Sure a particular skiier can progress and do new things, but likewise a racer gets faster and it becomes a different ballgame. Just with racing its more gradual, its not I got the trick or I didn't. Its I took a second of my time.
Thirdly, I know the came across as hating on freeskiers, but if you read what he said, he was giving respect. I think its kind of funny that the freeskiers who supposedly don't care about anything (thats what was said in the newschoolers site) took so much offense to people saying anything negative about their sport. Look, he was responding to Hall, who obviously is a jerk and is caught up with himself. Its not surprising that he is trying downplay freeskiing if only to elevate racing. But your blind if you don't see the fact that he's giving respect to freeskiers in general. Honestly, thats all this statement was, a call for respect, but its turned into a massive fued on this board. Makes me sick, and I'm not on either side.
Anyways my final thoughs:
A. freeskiers - those guys are sick couldn't do it, props for taking hard falls and still skiing
B. racers - again sick, coudln't do it, props to you for getting up early, listening to coaches etc
C. telemark - you guys are REALLY sick. mad props for actually doing something different. you are all my idols.
EDIT: BTW Racerchick got it right
dthmtluncrn:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:15 PM)
Ha, thanks, Gurp...I hadn't noticed. Hmmmm, 1000....
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That picture is rather disturbing... are there more?
Atomicskier:Thanks dthmtluncrn, as I've said to you before, its refreshing to see someone, especially a snowboarder, with such an open mind, and such diverse opinions. I agree with alot of your points too... yes.gif
Lineski2007:everyone skis because they love it, when you first got into skiing did u really say to yourself hmm should be a fast racer or have sick style in the park. no you started skiing and then you couldnt stop. i dont understand why skiers give them selfs titles like freeskier, racer, or you just ride. you ski because you get the chance to bomb down a snow covered mountain on two pieces of wood. this doesnt really make sense to the topic but my point is this whole fight of racers or freestylers is stupid. you ski because you love it.
Gurpskier:I dislike tanner. No offense he is a good freestyle skier.
dthmtluncrn:QUOTE(lineski2007 @ Dec 23 2004, 04:33 PM)
everyone skis because they love it, when you first got into skiing did u really say to yourself hmm should be a fast racer or have sick style in the park. no you started skiing and then you couldnt stop. i dont understand why skiers give them selfs titles like freeskier, racer, or you just ride. you ski because you get the chance to bomb down a snow covered mountain on two pieces of wood. this doesnt really make sense to the topic but my point is this whole fight of racers or freestylers is stupid. you ski because you love it.
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Actually this is right on point, the fight is stupid, its a call for respect. It is about fun, the names are means of convenience, even if we all go down the mountain we do so in different ways, theres always been the type 1,2,3 skiier. Now there is the added difference of racer/freeskier, because they have different equipment needs, and for understandings sake. It's so if your talking to a friend you have not skiied with before, and you go to ski together, your not surprised when your friend wants to ride trails all day or ride park all day, or the all mountain skiier who wants to do a little bit all day.The names are just for convenience.
Ski999:Since they have to cover quite a few of their own expenses, here's what pisses Hall (on left?) off:
$7K is like first prize in a horseshoe tournament.
Atomicskier:good point Ski999, and you think freestyle skiers fall, and it hurts? Think how much this would hurt, the force was so great, even his ski broke...Thats extreme
World cuppers typically fly off 'jumps' at anywhere from 70 to 90 mph....
and its hard to find anyone who can do this:
but the truth is, my friend, who i ski with all the time, who lives in SLC (hes my Alta connection) is a freestyle skier, but its a little different out there. He was in the XGames, but when we ski, he does some backcountry stuff, which even i can't help doing, but it's just different around here. There is one side of me which loves to rip GS arcs all the way down a nice firm trail. There is the other side of me that loves to jump cliffs, ski deep powder, and pull some spins, but only in soft snow biggrin.gif
Ski999:The downside to racing is that can seem like a dead end for kids. One kid from each year is invited to the US Development Team---not the actually US Ski Team, or even the 'B' or 'C' teams. I believe that even the X Games are still an open event, with early qualifiers for walk-ons.
Then you get a kid like Jon Olsson from Sweden, who was a half-ass junior racer. When he quit racing and entered freestyle comps, he was unbeatable and got laid dozens of times a week. And who ever heard of Jeremy Nobis before he quit the US Ski Team and started posing in movies?
Being a great skier is about training and coaching. It's about hours on the snow. Like anything, the more crap you go through, the better you end up. If you just want to have fun, then head out on nice days. If you want people to pay to watch you and have you wear their stuff, then you can expect years of bullshit, pain, and sacrifice.
And showing off? Nothing wrong with that. The first ASRA race I ever win, the paskiandride logo will have to be redesigned to include a picture of me!
Atomicskier:QUOTE(ski999 @ Dec 23 2004, 06:55 PM)
And showing off? Nothing wrong with that. The first ASRA race I ever win, the paskiandride logo will have to be redesigned to include a picture of me!
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at least we won't have to worry about that....ever. laugh.gif
You better just watch our or I'LL beat you tongue.gif
dthmtluncrn:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 06:18 PM)
good point Ski999, and you think freestyle skiers fall, and it hurts? Think how much this would hurt, the force was so great, even his ski broke...Thats extreme
Not saying racers don't take hard falls, but on average, the AVERAGE freeskier is going to take more hard falls then the AVERAGE racer.
Lineski2007:QUOTE(dthmtluncrn @ Dec 23 2004, 07:04 PM)
Not saying racers don't take hard falls, but on average, the AVERAGE freeskier is going to take more hard falls then the AVERAGE racer.
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agreed. there a worse crashes in freeskiing then racing, your either falling on metal or falling from mid air. im not saying racers dont fall hard but you will fall harder and more in freeskiing
linemavericks:QUOTE
Not saying racers don't take hard falls, but on average, the AVERAGE freeskier is going to take more hard falls then the AVERAGE racer
most of the time this is true that park skiing falls hurt worse, but imagine going 70 mph and falling .
dthmtluncrn:Backcountry has everyone beat, no one can top cliff drops onto rocks that kill you tongue.gif
Atomicskier:QUOTE(lineski2007 @ Dec 23 2004, 07:25 PM)
agreed. there a worse crashes in freeskiing then racing, your either falling on metal or falling from mid air. im not saying racers dont fall hard but you will fall harder and more in freeskiing
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freestyle skiers may fall more often, but they don't fall harder then racers. I never see freestyle skiers breaking skis when they fall, or falling down the mountain for what seems like hours. A fall when you're racing, at high speeds will usually equal something broken or torn, or dislocated...
librider:snowboarders take some hard falls too smile.gif just thought id chime in
Atomicskier:QUOTE(librider @ Dec 23 2004, 07:53 PM)
snowboarders take some hard falls too smile.gif just thought id chime in
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you guys are more vulnerable then skiers. Snowboarders, its either a face plant, or an ass plant, both which can HURT. Skiers, its more of a side impact, in which you can almost make the fall feel like nothing (when your skiing on a trail that is)
Gurpskier:Actaully the one ski movie i have the one guy (cant think of his name at the moment) broken his scratches in 1/2.
dthmtluncrn:Idk, if you straddle a rail on skis, thats just about as painful as it comes, I'd rather catch an edge anyday and ass/face plant over a nutbuster on a rail.
Gurpskier:Great point
Atomicskier:QUOTE(dthmtluncrn @ Dec 23 2004, 07:58 PM)
Idk, if you straddle a rail on skis, thats just about as painful as it comes, I'd rather catch an edge anyday and ass/face plant over a nutbuster on a rail.
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pwn3d.gif
thats all that needs to be said.
happy.gif
Lineskier2007:QUOTE(AtomicSkier @ Dec 23 2004, 07:30 PM)
freestyle skiers may fall more often, but they don't fall harder then racers. I never see freestyle skiers breaking skis when they fall, or falling down the mountain for what seems like hours. A fall when you're racing, at high speeds will usually equal something broken or torn, or dislocated...
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i never said racers didnt fall hard or bad, but im still sticking with freeriders falls hurt more, i would rather fall on my side doing 60 then fall on my side from 30 feet in the air
forumdestroyer154:i can say falling on a rail does hurt especailly on ice sad.gif juss ask my tailbone
dthmtluncrn:Yeah falling on rails hurts, falling on ice hurts too, my buddy gapped off teh rainbow at CB to a sheet of ice last year and shattered his wrist. He rode most of the season in a cast smile.gif
ski999:A downhill racer will take about two and-a-half falls in his World Cup career. Statistically, the average crash involves a season ending knee injury (ACL, MCL, or combo) and a moderate concussion. Bones are broken/fractured in 26% of these crashes; the multiple fracture rate is 11%.
Downhill speed suits were made of rubber for a brief period, but they'd melt to the skier's skin after the fall.
World Cup races aren't held on snow. A wide bar, with tiny holes is dragged along the length of the course and water is injected into the surface to create ice.
Where are the top US downhillers today? US men's Olympic gold medalist Bill Johnson is still relearning to walk and talk after crashing in a comeback race. The 50mph impact caused him to bite his tongue off and choke on the blood, which cut oxygen off to his brain (on Sib's hill!). For US women? Picabo Street looks like Frankenstein from the waist down after dozens of surgeries. The last crash snapped both femurs, I believe.
Recent World Cup crashes involved a Swiss skier that sliced through the safety nets skis-first and he went into trees at 40mph. He's paralyzed. The top French women's downhiller was on course in a training run two year's ago. A course worker strolled out to check a gate. The racer, Regine Cavagnoud, died on impact.
The idea is to train so hard that you go through your career and never fall.
I'm not making any statements about parks and backcountry. I'm an old Scot Schmidt fan and he's best known for hucking his carcass off cliffs, rather than skiing it down.
ski999:But again, guys, I don't care one way or another about this arguement. Rahlves is one of my least favorite racers. And Tanner Hall looks like a chick. Screw them both.
insomniac:Jon Olsson is very good in BC. He's been winning BC comps left and right. And freeskiers snap their skis all the time. On rails or jumps or whatever. And I'm sure you know this but freeskiers tear stuff all the time. Usually acl or mcl. um... I forget what I was going to say. Oh yeah, to that Dthmtluncrn dude, style gives something else to work on. Rather then just the trick, you have the trick and style. and Video and Pictures is for memorys and self coaching. Dont lump it all into showing off. Some of it might be, but alot of it isnt.
sibhusky:I guess I feel that the closest thing to the 'heart' of what skiing is, is back country skiing. Next closest might be just free skiing (not freestyle), next most is racing. I know, I have a racer, but I think you lose the heart of skiing -- the freedom, the pure soaring of skiing -- when you start worrying about gates instead of terrain. The least close thing to skiing in my opinion is anything done in a park. (Notice I am ignoring what the equipment is here.) But the more the work of humans is important to the activity, i.e. grooming, rails, etc., the further you are from the pure sport.
That being said, I think most racers are very good skiers, as the ability to react to gates is important off-piste, only it is trees and boulders. And I imagine that the park rats MIGHT be good off-piste as well, but I am not sure about the ability to react since normally they do a pipe or whatever, the same one, again and again. I am not sure how surprises would impact them. Maybe the ability to land or whatever is there. I know that Warren Miller has included some racers doing extreme-type skiing in some of his movies and they did pretty well.
But in a nutshell, I don't think doing things in a park is 'skiing', it's closer to being in a skate park. It doesn't mean it doesn't take WORK to do it, but it also seems to be pretty far from SKIING. And, while they may be able to ski, it doesn't mean that if they are in a park what they are doing is skiing.
Oh, and I do prefer to ski with lifts and a concierge at the bottom to take and wax my skis for the next day. Let's not ever imagine Sib is going to be totally at home off a groomed slope.
librider:snowboarding is tottally different. first people just tryed going down hills, then they started trying tricks..and to my point racing came last for snowboarding. ans freeskiing came last for skiing.
insomniac:Alot of freestyle skiers are going into the backcountry, and I think you'd be suprised with what they're doing. And dont forget, that just because they do freestyle, doesn't thats all they do. A few pro examples are: Pollard rips the park on skis, anything the back country will throw at him, and he also snowboards. like 60/40. How about that? And Seth Morrison? That dudes crazy, he'll take anything you throw at him, and throw a flip in it aswell. CR Johnson started in the BC a year or two ago on his first trip and he did extremely well. Pep too. They can ski outside the park just as good as in. Dont limit them in there. If you ever get the chance, buy MSP's Focused. They took a trip to norway and they did better than I think you'd expect. And almost ALL park skiers would ditch the park for a day of powder. Anyday. We are real skiers. We CAN ski. And we do. Park is just something there to pass the time.
Joeskier:WOW!! a lot of good points made. in my opinion, just do whatever the F#$@! makes you happy. it all takes hard work to be good at what every style you choose. i have a lot of respect for all types of skiers, snowboarders on the other hand are just a waste. J/K!!!!!!!
Personally, I prefer to attack the whole mountain, i'd rather ski every trail. under any snow conditon nature wants to throw at me, pow, ice, granular, whatever! I couldn't see myself wasting time in one place either racing the same courses or screwing around in the park for hours at a time. i enjoy the challenge and the uniqueness of every trail. i need to enjoy different scenerey rather then the same old site of a terrain park or a race course.
With that said, i could care less what you choose to do and who has it harder freeskiers or racers and who gets injured more? come on! yeah accidents happen but if your getting injuerd on a regular basis then you are doing something wrong.
all thats important is you get out there and enjoy it.
zaldon:This is kinda like what would happen if mountian bikers and road bikers started to fight about which was more difficult, or takes harder crashes. My point is their is no purpose in fighting with each other, because it wont accomplish anything. wiggle.gif
lineski2007:about eric pollard the guy goes down backcountry backwards and carves!! who does that
and yes i dislike tanner hall too, honestly i dont think a lot of skiers like him
The_Public_Enemy:I think you really need to differentiate between a 'park rat' and a 'freeskier.' For example, I consider myself a freeskier. I started out in the racing developmental team, decided it wasn't for me and started to just ski. Since I came from that background, I keep good form and am not always in gorilla steez mode. When I go out west every year, I only hit the park once and spend the rest of the time in Vail's back bowls, skiing pow and finding nice drops.
This is what I'd call 'freeskiing,' being able to deftly conquer the whole mountain. A 'park rat' has no semblance of form when he's out of the park and would stare perplexed at a set of moguls confused.gif
Sibhusky:Just to clarify my point a bit. When I say 'free skiing' I mean just skiing to ski, not doing tricks or anything. It gets confusing these days because what used to be 'free skiing' meant just doing it (skiing). Now, all of a sudden, the 'new school' comes along and appropriates 'freeskiing' for its own use. That is why I tried to differentiate between 'freestyle' and 'free skiing'. I'm not sure what we old school types are supposed to call 'recreational skiing' now. Also, I didn't say people who frequent the park aren't skiers, just that when they are in the park, they are not really skiing. They may be having a great time, and may be working hard to improve their skills, but the relationship between what they are doing at that point and skiing is not as strong as the relationship to what they would be doing in a skateboard park. To me, going in the pipe and hitting rails or rainbows or whatever is just skateboarding without the wheels.
A big part of skiing should be enjoying the view, communing with nature, feeling the texture of the snow beneath your feet, etc. If you would be just as happy doing what you are doing in an indoor environment (like an ice rink type thing), then you have lost the heart of skiing.
lineski2007:QUOTE(sibhusky @ Dec 24 2004, 11:40 AM)
Just to clarify my point a bit. When I say 'free skiing' I mean just skiing to ski, not doing tricks or anything. It gets confusing these days because what used to be 'free skiing' meant just doing it (skiing). Now, all of a sudden, the 'new school' comes along and appropriates 'freeskiing' for its own use. That is why I tried to differentiate between 'freestyle' and 'free skiing'. I'm not sure what we old school types are supposed to call 'recreational skiing' now. Also, I didn't say people who frequent the park aren't skiers, just that when they are in the park, they are not really skiing. They may be having a great time, and may be working hard to improve their skills, but the relationship between what they are doing at that point and skiing is not as strong as the relationship to what they would be doing in a skateboard park. To me, going in the pipe and hitting rails or rainbows or whatever is just skateboarding without the wheels.
A big part of skiing should be enjoying the view, communing with nature, feeling the texture of the snow beneath your feet, etc. If you would be just as happy doing what you are doing in an indoor environment (like an ice rink type thing), then you have lost the heart of skiing.
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if skiing down a bunny trail is considered skiing why cant skiing in the park be considered skiing. im not saying that park skiers are all that, and yes i do agree that if you are a park rat you will not be well rounded and you will waste all of your time just hitting the park. but saying that park skiing is skateboarding without wheels is just wrong. im not saying that i disagree with everything you have to say, but park skiing is skiing.
dthmtluncrn:I think the point can be made, in the bunny slope the point is to make it down the slope in a fliud fashion. Lots of people in the park sit/stand around hit a feature, then hike back up. Theres no fluidity not even carving involved just ride straight, get the speed right for the feature, hit the feature and stop. Not to say that there aren't people who hit the whole park, but its cerainly not the same as even a run down a bunny slope.
-CraigeD
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